Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:31 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:43 pm How does Fat Boo compare to the SSJ2s and SSJ3s in the Boo Saga? With a 4x gap between both forms, there’s a lot of room for Boo, and his fight with SSJ3 Goku doesn’t make things clearer.

Right in the middle between both forms is the lowest I’d go, it’s a good middle ground. I think I prefer him to be at least 3x SSJ2 Goku though, but 90% of SSJ3 at most.
Given that Gohan's SS2 energy was nearly half of what Bobbidi needed to revive Boo, somewhat more than twice SS2 Gohan seems like the simplest and answer. But I could easily imagine him being significantly higher than that.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:14 am

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:43 pm How does Fat Boo compare to the SSJ2s and SSJ3s in the Boo Saga? With a 4x gap between both forms, there’s a lot of room for Boo, and his fight with SSJ3 Goku doesn’t make things clearer.

Right in the middle between both forms is the lowest I’d go, it’s a good middle ground. I think I prefer him to be at least 3x SSJ2 Goku though, but 90% of SSJ3 at most.
I actually have Fat Boo equal to Super Boo lol. That's only when his splitting up though so if you mean the Fat Boo that fought SS3 Goku then I have him around 70% of him.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:10 am

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:43 pm How does Fat Boo compare to the SSJ2s and SSJ3s in the Boo Saga? With a 4x gap between both forms, there’s a lot of room for Boo, and his fight with SSJ3 Goku doesn’t make things clearer.

Right in the middle between both forms is the lowest I’d go, it’s a good middle ground. I think I prefer him to be at least 3x SSJ2 Goku though, but 90% of SSJ3 at most.
Definitely on the second half between SS2 and SS3, not higher than 70-75% SS3 Goku, but... wouldn't a 3x gap contradict his fight with Vegeta? I know he wasn't able to keep fighting Buu anymore after the beatdown, but such a stomp with a 3x gap shouldn't at least turned his SS off?
What I mean is that if the gap betwen SS2 Gohan and Cell was even greater, with two or three blows he got him to throw up 18, pounding him like Buu did to Vegeta, shouldn't have turned Cell and his core into a pulp?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mr Perfect Cell » Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:19 am

I just found this thread and it seems its about power levels so I'm gonna make a Z one

Saiyan saga

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:17 pm

Mr Perfect Cell wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:19 am I just found this thread and it seems its about power levels so I'm gonna make a Z one

Saiyan saga
I like this, I particularly like the detail of a Suppressed SS3 Goku holding back vs Fat Buu, however what's up with Kid Buu's FP being so close to Vegito and way beyond Buuhan? :think:

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:12 pm

Mr Perfect Cell wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:19 am I just found this thread and it seems its about power levels so I'm gonna make a Z one

Saiyan saga
Very nice list. Some points:

1) Isn't Goku Ginyu stated to be 23,000?
2) Don't you think you have Piccolo too close to the Super Saiyans before he fuses with God?
3) Shouldn't 17 and Piccolo (After fusing) be equals?
4) Super Saiyan Grade 2 boost seems a little low no?
5) Is there any indication the humans grew stronger before the Cell Games?
6) Tired Goku seems too close to Piccolo and Co. considering he went down almost instantly to the Juniors.
7) Doesn't Boohan say that base Vegetto was still weaker than him?
8) Good Boo weaker than SS2 Vegeta? I don't know about that. Vegeta couldn't even hit Kid Boo.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Thu Feb 16, 2023 4:55 pm

DanielSSJ wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:31 pm Given that Gohan's SS2 energy was nearly half of what Bobbidi needed to revive Boo, somewhat more than twice SS2 Gohan seems like the simplest and answer. But I could easily imagine him being significantly higher than that.
Yeah, that's why I considered it a good starting point. Boo's got a lot of dormant power though, so I can see Boo going beyond this threshold since he draws power from anger/malice.

After Boo's initial power ups on Dabra and Vegeta, I like to think he's on this ~2x SSJ2 level but then shoots up to SSJ3 level when he gets pissed off at Vegeta's blast and blows everything up. Like this:

SSJ2 Gohan: 6.4
SSJ2 Goku/Majin Vegeta: 10

Majin Boo: 8
~ 1st power up: 12
~ 2nd power up: 15
~ Full power: 30

SSJ3 Goku: 40
ZombieVito wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:14 am I actually have Fat Boo equal to Super Boo lol. That's only when his splitting up though so if you mean the Fat Boo that fought SS3 Goku then I have him around 70% of him.
Daizenshuu 2 says Boo powers up by absorbing himself, so I'd say peak Fat Boo was never on Super Boo's level. Super Boo's Ki also earns some comments from Goku and Piccolo that Fat Boo never got.

That aside, saying Fat Boo = Super Boo will just make people think you have SSJ3 Goku > Super Boo lol.
Koitsukai wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:10 am Definitely on the second half between SS2 and SS3, not higher than 70-75% SS3 Goku, but... wouldn't a 3x gap contradict his fight with Vegeta? I know he wasn't able to keep fighting Buu anymore after the beatdown, but such a stomp with a 3x gap shouldn't at least turned his SS off?
What I mean is that if the gap betwen SS2 Gohan and Cell was even greater, with two or three blows he got him to throw up 18, pounding him like Buu did to Vegeta, shouldn't have turned Cell and his core into a pulp?
I don't see anything wrong with it. Boo's explosive wave basically crippled Vegeta and got him on that holding his arm pose. He then sits on top of him and starts to smack him, he's just enjoying himself like Kid Boo did later.
Mr Perfect Cell wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:19 am I just found this thread and it seems its about power levels so I'm gonna make a Z one
I think you made a mistake with the spoiler tags lol. Same with the "Dudes with gun > 6.66", the sign is supposed to go the other way around, unless you think those guys are stronger than Satan despite them being one shot by him.

Humans nearing 1 million even before the 3 years training? Ballsy, I like it.

I don't really mind SSJ Gotenks being weak Pre Rosat since Goku said they might need the Rosat, but Post Rosat he's definitely SSJ3 level. Piccolo suggests Gotenks was the strongest guy Boo fought when he blows up the Rosat door.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:38 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 4:55 pm
ZombieVito wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:14 am I actually have Fat Boo equal to Super Boo lol. That's only when his splitting up though so if you mean the Fat Boo that fought SS3 Goku then I have him around 70% of him.
Daizenshuu 2 says Boo powers up by absorbing himself, so I'd say peak Fat Boo was never on Super Boo's level. Super Boo's Ki also earns some comments from Goku and Piccolo that Fat Boo never got.

That aside, saying Fat Boo = Super Boo will just make people think you have SSJ3 Goku > Super Boo lol.
And yet Daizenshuu 7 says this that implies Fat Boo is only somewhat weaker than Buff Boo.
He killed the North and West Kaioshin, absorbed the South Kaioshin, and then when he took in the gentle heart of the Dai Kaioshin, his ferociousness and power were somewhat weakened.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sat Feb 18, 2023 1:08 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:38 pm
And yet Daizenshuu 7 says this that implies Fat Boo is only somewhat weaker than Buff Boo.
He killed the North and West Kaioshin, absorbed the South Kaioshin, and then when he took in the gentle heart of the Dai Kaioshin, his ferociousness and power were somewhat weakened.
It's a bit awkard, but I think that's meant to say Fat Boo is somewhat weaker than Pure Boo while ignoring Buff Boo entirely. It is a much better fit comparison, and it makes sense they'd skip any comments on Buff since he was only in the story for a couple pannels.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Feb 18, 2023 2:01 pm

"Somewhat" is a relative term. For instance, compared to previous villains or protagonists, Fat Buu is somewhat weaker than Buff Buu, he is still within the SS3-ish realm. I mean, he didn't go from Gotenks tier to Perfect Cell tier, he was still the strongest in the universe in spite of getting weaker.

GS123's assumption makes sense, as well. Fat Buu and Kid Buu are pretty damn close, and "somewhat" applies just fine no matter the context.

Also, we know that in terms of the Buu arc, the gap between the first Buu and Buff Buu is significant, so the Daizenshuu seems to be the one dropping the ball. Toriyama was pretty clear about the power hierarchy and no magazine can dispute that.
Not even the anime; one of its writers recently admitted that Buuhan > Kid Buu.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Mon Feb 20, 2023 12:15 am

Hi everybody. I just finished making a power level list that covers 5/9 of the arcs of my fanfiction, Dragon Ball GB. I've gone up to the god ki era, and it includes power levels for trips in and out of the Room of Spirit and Time. You can read the whole list here.

Anyway, with these power levels, how far do you think your favorite Dragon Ball character would get on this list? Would they lose to Baezel at his weakest? Would they fold a full-power Radizel like a twig? Let me know!
So, you decided to read my signature, eh?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:56 am

Koitsukai wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 2:01 pm Also, we know that in terms of the Buu arc, the gap between the first Buu and Buff Buu is significant, so the Daizenshuu seems to be the one dropping the ball. Toriyama was pretty clear about the power hierarchy and no magazine can dispute that. Not even the anime; one of its writers recently admitted that Buuhan > Kid Buu.
I think you could say that Pure Boo and Evil Boo have similar if not equal battle power, but Evil Boo can use it reasonably, while Pure Boo use it instinctively, making him not as formidable as a warrior, but still superior to Fat Boo nonetheless.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Mon Feb 20, 2023 3:13 pm

Took me quite a while, specially with all the images, but I finally did a significant portion of my list, up to the start of the Saiyan Saga. I took some clues from both DanielSSJ's list (specially on his interpretation of some official power levels) and this list from a guy called ThePrinceOfSaiyajins on Neoseeker. Magnificent Ponta's own Modest Approach was also quite useful on how I think of these numbers, although I never went as in depth as he did.

Anyways, here's the list. Not sure when the Saiyan Saga comes out since I only do a little bit at a time, but it might come out soon since releasing this got me a bit hyped.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:40 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 3:13 pm Took me quite a while, specially with all the images, but I finally did a significant portion of my list, up to the start of the Saiyan Saga. I took some clues from both DanielSSJ's list (specially on his interpretation of some official power levels) and this list from a guy called ThePrinceOfSaiyajins on Neoseeker. Magnificent Ponta's own Modest Approach was also quite useful on how I think of these numbers, although I never went as in depth as he did.

Anyways, here's the list. Not sure when the Saiyan Saga comes out since I only do a little bit at a time, but it might come out soon since releasing this got me a bit hyped.
1) Buff Roshi 4 times base? Any reason why? I always give him 1.5/2 times.
2) Don't you think Tao is a bit too close to Goku post Karin? Some people even think the Battle Jacket is stronger than Tao.

I can't believe I never caught Raditz's line about Gohan being described as only stronger than Goku. Well done.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:52 am

ZombieVito wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:40 pm
1) Buff Roshi 4 times base? Any reason why? I always give him 1.5/2 times.
2) Don't you think Tao is a bit too close to Goku post Karin? Some people even think the Battle Jacket is stronger than Tao.

I can't believe I never caught Raditz's line about Gohan being described as only stronger than Goku. Well done.
Blowing up the Moon is no small feat. It probably takes some 22nd Budokai or Piccolo Saga levels to do that.

Hm… yeah, he is. Tao isn’t much of a threat to Goku. It looks a bit like Goku vs Freeza, but I don’t have enough room for a 1.25x gap. Maybe I should lower Tao to 90% of Goku? That’d make him a 67.5 and the Dodonpa a clean 75. I don’t think the Battle Jacket has to be stronger, sure it’s the final boss and all, but Goku pierces through it. They’re probably comparable at best.

I’d also like to lower Tenshinhan since Goku had the upperhand the whole fight, but I don’t have enough room for that. AT said once he liked the fight they were dead even anyway, so maybe it’s something like Goku vs Jackie but bigger.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:13 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:52 am
ZombieVito wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:40 pm
1) Buff Roshi 4 times base? Any reason why? I always give him 1.5/2 times.
2) Don't you think Tao is a bit too close to Goku post Karin? Some people even think the Battle Jacket is stronger than Tao.

I can't believe I never caught Raditz's line about Gohan being described as only stronger than Goku. Well done.
Blowing up the Moon is no small feat. It probably takes some 22nd Budokai or Piccolo Saga levels to do that.

Hm… yeah, he is. Tao isn’t much of a threat to Goku. It looks a bit like Goku vs Freeza, but I don’t have enough room for a 1.25x gap. Maybe I should lower Tao to 90% of Goku? That’d make him a 67.5 and the Dodonpa a clean 75. I don’t think the Battle Jacket has to be stronger, sure it’s the final boss and all, but Goku pierces through it. They’re probably comparable at best.

I’d also like to lower Tenshinhan since Goku had the upperhand the whole fight, but I don’t have enough room for that. AT said once he liked the fight they were dead even anyway, so maybe it’s something like Goku vs Jackie but bigger.
You do have a point about that. Buff Roshi is currently 100 (50 in base) on my list for the 21st TB so with the Kamehameha he should be at like the 125-150 range. That should be enough to blow up the moon. I guess we thought the same. :thumbup:

Tao is always hard to gauge since Goku dominates him somewhat but then Tenshinhan makes a big deal about him getting killed later on. I also think he shouldn't be that far off of his brother because of that. I was thinking on putting Tao at 110 and Goku at 120-125 on my list so yeah, around 90% seems fine.

You know me and how I always use official BP so Tenshinhan and Goku are equals to me at the 22nd TB. :lol:

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:01 pm

I'mma try to scale DBS and GT to see if we can finally have a fair comparison, using the Buu arc as basis, would be nice to have some feedback.
I'll use smaller numbers so it doesn't become a 0-festa. And a middle ground between high and lowballing characters.

Z:
Majin Buu: 20M
SS3 Goku 30M
Super Buu: 50 M
Gotenks: 52 M
Gohan: 70M
Buutenks: 102M
Buuhan: 120M
Super Vegito: 200M
Kid Buu: 30M
(I think we all agree so far)

GT
DBS
Thoughts? please feel free to add the side characters I left out, mostly from GT like the hybrids, or Super 17 before absorbing Goku's blasts, or maybe Hit or people from DBS. Or correct numbers that might be off.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:53 am

List done up to the Freeza Saga, it's on my signature now. Decided to wait until both Saiyan and Freeza were done since they're like, 80% official numbers. Work on the Cell Saga will begin soon.
Koitsukai wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:01 pm I'mma try to scale DBS and GT to see if we can finally have a fair comparison, using the Buu arc as basis, would be nice to have some feedback.
I'll use smaller numbers so it doesn't become a 0-festa. And a middle ground between high and lowballing characters.

Z:
Majin Buu: 20M
SS3 Goku 30M
Super Buu: 50 M
Gotenks: 52 M
Gohan: 70M
Buutenks: 102M
Buuhan: 120M
Super Vegito: 200M
Kid Buu: 30M
(I think we all agree so far)

GT
DBS
Thoughts? please feel free to add the side characters I left out, mostly from GT like the hybrids, or Super 17 before absorbing Goku's blasts, or maybe Hit or people from DBS. Or correct numbers that might be off.
I haven't bothered with GT since forever (I never really cared about it anyway), but I think Heroes is probably the most reliable source to compare GT and Super, even if personally I think SSJ4 ~ SSJG would've been more accurate: Both are stronger, but still comparable to SSJ(3?) fusion, SSJB is just overkill. But hey, it is what it is.

The argument most people have is based on calculations and weird interpretations (Just because nobody on GT threatens to destroy the universe with punches they aren't universal, even though nobody stronger than SSJG Goku ever does that either), so might as well just take Heroes' word on it even if Xeno Goku isn't the same as GT Goku.

Still, I think it's a bit hard to scale the two. GT is very short, and other than when everybody gives him Ki vs Yi Xing Long, Goku doesn't improve much. The GT Perfect Files even say SSJ4 is a potential unlock, so I think SSJ4 Goku might be the same right up until that fight. Compare this with how SSJB Goku was getting stronger before, after and during every saga.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by QuakingStar » Sun Mar 05, 2023 10:05 pm

SS4 is indeed a potential unleashing form. It's essentially GGA + Potential Unleashed hence Goku's SS4 form putting him equal to, and then at an advantage against GGA Baby, while as a SS3 with his tail he was absolutely helpless against SBV2.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Kaboom » Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:52 pm

Judging from what we've been given about Super Saiyan 2 and 3's power boosts in more recent years, and applying that to Goku's fight(s) with Baby... then Super Saiyan 4 being a whopping 40,000x power boost seems fitting. That's with Great Ape's 10-fold boost on top of SS3, and then SS4 being another 10-fold boost on top of that. That lines up pretty well with how I remember Goku vs Baby progressing, but I'm not so sure about he and Vegeta's subsequent uses in the Super 17 and Shadow Dragons arcs.
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