Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Peril » Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:37 pm

Tai Lung wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:53 pm
Peril wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:30 am Emosh disagrees and basically "all lives matters" it. So his tl;dr is everybody who isn't goku and vegeta gets shafted, so complaining that dragon ball is sexist is "woke bullshit". Though I would argue the opposite, even at its best, female characters got nothing to do. Characters like Chichi choosing to marry a martial artist only to paradoxically hate fighting as soon as she gives birth to Gohan.
chichi literally believed that she should marry goku because he "touched" her... without knowing that goku just wanted to know if it was a girl or not
she chased him to the tournament for the false promise.... everything is literally a bad joke
Peril wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:30 am Caulifla and Kale are over corrective mary sues
merus is mary sue .... but caulifla and kale no .... but on manga are boring
I don't really remember Merus enough to care. He broke the angel rule and died but got brought back without his angel powers. Seems like a fair trade. I'd argue Whis is the mary sue in the angel context.

And yeah I know the counter argument for caulifla and kale is "but goten and trunks tho" and yeah that is true. I dislike how these U6 saiyans just show up and crack super saiyan without any of the drama/trauma necessary. I didn't like it when Goten did it either. If I could go back in time I'd rewrite a lot of DBZ. But time didn't change my opinion or my feelings on this. They didn't know wtf super saiyan was then "tingly back", kapow, they have super saiyan. Its ridiculous to the point of parody.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:47 pm

Peril wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:37 pm
Tai Lung wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:53 pm
Peril wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:30 am Emosh disagrees and basically "all lives matters" it. So his tl;dr is everybody who isn't goku and vegeta gets shafted, so complaining that dragon ball is sexist is "woke bullshit". Though I would argue the opposite, even at its best, female characters got nothing to do. Characters like Chichi choosing to marry a martial artist only to paradoxically hate fighting as soon as she gives birth to Gohan.
chichi literally believed that she should marry goku because he "touched" her... without knowing that goku just wanted to know if it was a girl or not
she chased him to the tournament for the false promise.... everything is literally a bad joke
Peril wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:30 am Caulifla and Kale are over corrective mary sues
merus is mary sue .... but caulifla and kale no .... but on manga are boring
I don't really remember Merus enough to care. He broke the angel rule and died but got brought back without his angel powers. Seems like a fair trade. I'd argue Whis is the mary sue in the angel context.

And yeah I know the counter argument for caulifla and kale is "but goten and trunks tho" and yeah that is true. I dislike how these U6 saiyans just show up and crack super saiyan without any of the drama/trauma necessary. I didn't like it when Goten did it either. If I could go back in time I'd rewrite a lot of DBZ. But time didn't change my opinion or my feelings on this. They didn't know wtf super saiyan was then "tingly back", kapow, they have super saiyan. Its ridiculous to the point of parody.
Merus is a guy... that everything goes well and he has no mistakes... something that no character in DB has been, even when he should have died for not complying, he is revived... he teaches ultra instinct to goku, something that he should being whis for being his master... there wasn't even a moment where he was mocked or something went wrong... never

android 16 died like a dog and no one ever considered to revive him or repair him...

mary sue is not someone who is strong because yes... mary sue is someone who never makes mistakes and everything turns out perfectly.... and everyone seems to take it without genuinely deserving it....

It doesn't really matter much... Caulifla already had the power to transform... Anger simply couldn't be a "reason"... since if it were the case it would always be weird that she never got angry before... It was simply enough for him to imitate the gesture, sensation and position... which is not different from the explanation that Gohan or Tien gives about how to fly... being quite improvised...
However, it shouldn't be strange.... Trunks from the future in the manga didn't transform because of "anger" he already knew how... Gohan probably taught him before he died

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by super michael » Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:51 pm

@Tai Lung@ you asked me to provide evidence, yet you ignored my post. You claimed I was speculating, but you didn't admit to me being right.

DB/DBZ
  • Chi Chi was acknowledged to being skillful in the 23rd martial art tournament, that resembles the Turtle Style.
  • Chi Chi allowed Gohan to go to space and considered what everyone said.
  • Chi Chi allowed Gohan to train for the Androids, even though he was weak. Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo were way stronger.
  • Chi Chi allowed Gohan to train in the ROSAT, although she made Goku promise to get a job after Cell is defeated. Although Goku died. Gohan was the weakest in the Z fighters at this point.
  • Chi Chi trained and taught Goten, while Gohan was studying. Goten was allowed to train, way before Gohan was exposed as the Great Saiyan in the Buu Saga.
  • Chi Chi allowed Goten to spar and train with Trunks in the Buu Saga.
DBS Anime
  • Chi Chi tries to prevent Goku from going to Whis planet to train, despite Gohan saying how earth came close to being destroyed by Beerus.
  • Chi Chi lies to Goku about spending all of Mr Satan money, to prevent Goku from training.
  • Chi Chi doesn't allow Goten to spar with Goku. Wants Goten to be weak forever
  • Chi Chi doesn't allow Goten to go with Goku to Whis planet for training, even gives a lame reason about no bad guys. Even knowing all the bad guys that showed up and how their future self died, still nothing. Chi Chi even got Bulma involved in family problem.
  • Chi Chi doesn't allow Goten to compete in picking vegetables, but forces Piccolo and Krillin to pick vegetables who doesn't want to do it.
  • Chi Chi didn't allow Gohan to choose how to raise Pan, the one who Chi Chi cared were Bulma and Videl opinion. Chi Chi even locked Pan away from his father.
DBS Anime Chi Chi is horrible. She is a control freak. She doesn't listen to anyone, it has to be her way or she throws a tantrum.


By the way if Goku and Goten had to sneak away to try and get to Whis planet, then surely Goku didn't tell Chi Chi about Monster Island, espcially when it is for less than 1 hour.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Peril » Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:24 pm

I want to talk more about Gine but whatever happened to that Gine thread that got locked, the "did she or didn't she lie" argument. Please don't bring that in here. :thumbdown: Its so inconsequential. And I don't want this thread to get locked.

But what I do want to talk about is what was the idea of Goku's mom before Gine became official. How far off the mark is Gine from your idea? Even if you think your headcanon doesn't matter. Also, if there was anything, or just one thing about Gine you wish was different then what would it be?

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Tai Lung » Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:35 pm

super michael wrote: Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:51 pm @Tai Lung@ you asked me to provide evidence, yet you ignored my post. You claimed I was speculating, but you didn't admit to me being right.

DB/DBZ
  • Chi Chi was acknowledged to being skillful in the 23rd martial art tournament, that resembles the Turtle Style.
  • Chi Chi allowed Gohan to go to space and considered what everyone said.
  • Chi Chi allowed Gohan to train for the Androids, even though he was weak. Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo were way stronger.
  • Chi Chi allowed Gohan to train in the ROSAT, although she made Goku promise to get a job after Cell is defeated. Although Goku died. Gohan was the weakest in the Z fighters at this point.
  • Chi Chi trained and taught Goten, while Gohan was studying. Goten was allowed to train, way before Gohan was exposed as the Great Saiyan in the Buu Saga.
  • Chi Chi allowed Goten to spar and train with Trunks in the Buu Saga.
DBS Anime
  • Chi Chi tries to prevent Goku from going to Whis planet to train, despite Gohan saying how earth came close to being destroyed by Beerus.
  • Chi Chi lies to Goku about spending all of Mr Satan money, to prevent Goku from training.
  • Chi Chi doesn't allow Goten to spar with Goku. Wants Goten to be weak forever
  • Chi Chi doesn't allow Goten to go with Goku to Whis planet for training, even gives a lame reason about no bad guys. Even knowing all the bad guys that showed up and how their future self died, still nothing. Chi Chi even got Bulma involved in family problem.
  • Chi Chi doesn't allow Goten to compete in picking vegetables, but forces Piccolo and Krillin to pick vegetables who doesn't want to do it.
  • Chi Chi didn't allow Gohan to choose how to raise Pan, the one who Chi Chi cared were Bulma and Videl opinion. Chi Chi even locked Pan away from his father.
DBS Anime Chi Chi is horrible. She is a control freak. She doesn't listen to anyone, it has to be her way or she throws a tantrum.


By the way if Goku and Goten had to sneak away to try and get to Whis planet, then surely Goku didn't tell Chi Chi about Monster Island, espcially when it is for less than 1 hour.
You are only repeating things that I have already denied with context and facts... it is not necessary to repeat the same thing again...

chichi never wanted her son to go into space to fight... the situation forced her... because even gohan had to yell at her to get him to agree... because goku, being seriously injured, couldn't go. ... without this she would have stayed at home studying... that already refutes any development... because they are forcing her to access.... :roll:

Goten obviously isn't going to yell at his mother... and Goku is healthy plus he's much stronger to fight any threat

the others are basically variations of the same thing... androids appear...
Image
chichi makes a fuss about him... refusing... because she doesn't agree... but she ends up agreeing after the coup... because the situation is dangerous... and she can't do anything to avoid it. ..
that is not development because they forced it .... :roll:

what techniques does chichi know...? what attacks does chichi have... can she fly? No. energy blast? no...so nothing...outside of a martial formation...that even mr satan could offer to students she has nothing

and with that it ended .... I will not repeat the same thing again

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by super michael » Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:19 am

Tai Lung wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:35 pm
super michael wrote: Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:51 pm @Tai Lung@ you asked me to provide evidence, yet you ignored my post. You claimed I was speculating, but you didn't admit to me being right.

DB/DBZ
  • Chi Chi was acknowledged to being skillful in the 23rd martial art tournament, that resembles the Turtle Style.
  • Chi Chi allowed Gohan to go to space and considered what everyone said.
  • Chi Chi allowed Gohan to train for the Androids, even though he was weak. Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo were way stronger.
  • Chi Chi allowed Gohan to train in the ROSAT, although she made Goku promise to get a job after Cell is defeated. Although Goku died. Gohan was the weakest in the Z fighters at this point.
  • Chi Chi trained and taught Goten, while Gohan was studying. Goten was allowed to train, way before Gohan was exposed as the Great Saiyan in the Buu Saga.
  • Chi Chi allowed Goten to spar and train with Trunks in the Buu Saga.
DBS Anime
  • Chi Chi tries to prevent Goku from going to Whis planet to train, despite Gohan saying how earth came close to being destroyed by Beerus.
  • Chi Chi lies to Goku about spending all of Mr Satan money, to prevent Goku from training.
  • Chi Chi doesn't allow Goten to spar with Goku. Wants Goten to be weak forever
  • Chi Chi doesn't allow Goten to go with Goku to Whis planet for training, even gives a lame reason about no bad guys. Even knowing all the bad guys that showed up and how their future self died, still nothing. Chi Chi even got Bulma involved in family problem.
  • Chi Chi doesn't allow Goten to compete in picking vegetables, but forces Piccolo and Krillin to pick vegetables who doesn't want to do it.
  • Chi Chi didn't allow Gohan to choose how to raise Pan, the one who Chi Chi cared were Bulma and Videl opinion. Chi Chi even locked Pan away from his father.
DBS Anime Chi Chi is horrible. She is a control freak. She doesn't listen to anyone, it has to be her way or she throws a tantrum.


By the way if Goku and Goten had to sneak away to try and get to Whis planet, then surely Goku didn't tell Chi Chi about Monster Island, espcially when it is for less than 1 hour.
You are only repeating things that I have already denied with context and facts... it is not necessary to repeat the same thing again...

chichi never wanted her son to go into space to fight... the situation forced her... because even gohan had to yell at her to get him to agree... because goku, being seriously injured, couldn't go. ... without this she would have stayed at home studying... that already refutes any development... because they are forcing her to access.... :roll:

Goten obviously isn't going to yell at his mother... and Goku is healthy plus he's much stronger to fight any threat

the others are basically variations of the same thing... androids appear...
Image
chichi makes a fuss about him... refusing... because she doesn't agree... but she ends up agreeing after the coup... because the situation is dangerous... and she can't do anything to avoid it. ..
that is not development because they forced it .... :roll:

what techniques does chichi know...? what attacks does chichi have... can she fly? No. energy blast? no...so nothing...outside of a martial formation...that even mr satan could offer to students she has nothing

and with that it ended .... I will not repeat the same thing again
Master Roshi praised Chi Chi for her fighting skills and fighting style, you don't get to downplay that.
None of the Z fighters has ever praised Mr Satan fighting style or skill.

You don't get to downplay Chi Chi training and teaching Goten her knowledge in martial arts. Chi Chi allowed Goten to train, even when money was not involved. Chi Chi was training Goten, while Gohan was studying. That is a fact you can't deny. Gohan identity wasn't exposed while Goten trained with Chi Chi.


It is irrelevant if Chi Chi was originally against Gohan going into space, she did change her mind even if others had to speak their mind. Unlike in DBS which Goten spoke his mind and sneaked away with Goku, that wasn't enough. Chi Chi got Bulma involve into family matter, that she shouldn't be involved.

There shouldn't be any need for Goten to shout at Chi Chi. The fact that he sneaked away should be enough.

In the Cell Saga Chi Chi stop making a fuss along with the Buu Saga.


You asked evidence when Master Roshi praised Chi Chi, I presented said evidence.
You asked evidence when Chi Chi trained with Goten, I presented said evidence.
I even presented evidence of when Chi Chi was ok with Goten training, before she even knew about the tournament money. The evidence was Goten trained, while Gohan studied.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by super michael » Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:29 am

Tai Lung wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:35 pm what techniques does chichi know...? what attacks does chichi have... can she fly? No. energy blast? no...so nothing...outside of a martial formation...that even mr satan could offer to students she has nothing
Master Roshi doesn't even know how to fly himself, flying isn't even part of the Turtle Style that is the Crane Style.
Master Roshi didn't teach any special attack or ki attack, Goku and Krillin figured it out for themselves.

Goku learned Kamehameha from watching Master Roshi destroy Ox King land.
Krillin copied how Goku does the Kamehameha.

Do not move goalpost. Mr Satan never got praised by Master Roshi or the Z fighters in fighting skills or power.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Peril » Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:36 pm

I've honestly lost sight of what this argument was even about. But my verdict is "Chichi is an inconsistent character." The end.

Can we talk about another female character maybe? Earlier I asked about Gine. I might as well ask again.
But what I do want to talk about is what was the idea of Goku's mom before Gine became official. How far off the mark is Gine from your idea? Even if you think your headcanon doesn't matter. Also, if there was anything, or just one thing about Gine you wish was different then what would it be?

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by super michael » Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:23 am

Peril wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:36 pm I've honestly lost sight of what this argument was even about. But my verdict is "Chichi is an inconsistent character." The end.

Can we talk about another female character maybe? Earlier I asked about Gine. I might as well ask again.
But what I do want to talk about is what was the idea of Goku's mom before Gine became official. How far off the mark is Gine from your idea? Even if you think your headcanon doesn't matter. Also, if there was anything, or just one thing about Gine you wish was different then what would it be?
I used to think in the past that Gine would be a strong fighter that enjoys to train and fight. I thought she would look like Fasha.
Sorry for not answering your post before, but I couldn't remember how I used to think what Gine would be like. I only just remembered now.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:10 am

I also cannot recall what idea of her I had before Broly/Minus. I guess I thought of her as some sort of low-class unremarkable warrior. More feral than what we got, that's for sure, not as likeable and cute as she ended up being.

I would like her to be more than just a cook, even if she's not out there conquering planets, then maybe training the younglings instead of being a housewife. Like Chichi with Goten.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:46 am

Peril wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:36 pm Can we talk about another female character maybe? Earlier I asked about Gine. I might as well ask again.
Gine is just a disappointment .... just a mother babysitting very boring

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Peril » Sun Sep 17, 2023 11:24 pm

Tai Lung wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:46 am
Peril wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:36 pm Can we talk about another female character maybe? Earlier I asked about Gine. I might as well ask again.
Gine is just a disappointment .... just a mother babysitting very boring
I would assume even someone as gentle as Gine would still be trained to fight and expected to fight and kill if commanded to.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by coola » Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:04 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg4qAjspzk4 Oof, they even ruined #18 now :(
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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Vegetto95 » Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:46 pm

super michael wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:23 am I used to think in the past that Gine would be a strong fighter that enjoys to train and fight. I thought she would look like Fasha.
Apologies for responding to this so many months later, but I just saw this thread and this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

Her name's not Fasha, it's Selypa (a pun on parsley). "Fasha" is just some random nonsense that the fools at FUNimation made up back in 2000, ten whole years after Bardock and his crew were first created by Tōei with Toriyama's consent and consultation, along with "Borgos" (real name Totapo, a pun on potato), "Shugesh" (Pumbkin, a pun on pumpkin), and "Tora" (Tōma, a pun on tomato).

Their original Japanese names obviously were, like ALL Saiyan names, puns on various vegetables. The FUNi dub names, in complete contrast, were... just COMPLETELY random names that FUNi just pulled out of their asses purely because they thought they sounded generically "exotic" and "alien".

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by nineko » Tue Sep 19, 2023 5:01 pm

Vegetto95 wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:46 pmHer name's not Fasha, it's Selypa (a pun on parsley). "Fasha" is just some random nonsense that the fools at FUNimation made up back in 2000, ten whole years after Bardock and his crew were first created by Tōei with Toriyama's consent and consultation, along with "Borgos" (real name Totapo, a pun on potato), "Shugesh" (Pumbkin, a pun on pumpkin), and "Tora" (Tōma, a pun on tomato).

Their original Japanese names obviously were, like ALL Saiyan names, puns on various vegetables.
Relevant video by our very Gaffer Tape / Mistarefusion.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Sep 19, 2023 5:28 pm

I'm pretty sure super michael knows about the name change and just doesn't care. Which, that's fair. It's not a big deal that we need to be correcting people on the internet 20 years later.
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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by super michael » Wed Sep 20, 2023 3:29 am

Vegetto95 wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:46 pm
super michael wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:23 am I used to think in the past that Gine would be a strong fighter that enjoys to train and fight. I thought she would look like Fasha.
Apologies for responding to this so many months later, but I just saw this thread and this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

Her name's not Fasha, it's Selypa (a pun on parsley). "Fasha" is just some random nonsense that the fools at FUNimation made up back in 2000, ten whole years after Bardock and his crew were first created by Tōei with Toriyama's consent and consultation, along with "Borgos" (real name Totapo, a pun on potato), "Shugesh" (Pumbkin, a pun on pumpkin), and "Tora" (Tōma, a pun on tomato).

Their original Japanese names obviously were, like ALL Saiyan names, puns on various vegetables. The FUNi dub names, in complete contrast, were... just COMPLETELY random names that FUNi just pulled out of their asses purely because they thought they sounded generically "exotic" and "alien".
Thanks for letting me know, I don't believe I watched DBZ movies in other dubs, I think I only watched them once and no more. I was unaware of the huge change in name for the movie characters.
The only one I was aware was Big Green, which is very dumb.

The Japanese name makes sense the puns.

I think I should watch them in Japanese dub one day, many because it has been decades since I last watched DBZ movies.

The other places I saw Fasha named as that was DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 3 (Wii version). But I know they name their characters incorrect. An example they call Cell Game Gohan Teen Gohan, when he isn't even a teenager.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Vegetto95 » Wed Sep 20, 2023 12:38 pm

super michael wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 3:29 am Thanks for letting me know, I don't believe I watched DBZ movies in other dubs, I think I only watched them once and no more. I was unaware of the huge change in name for the movie characters.
The only one I was aware was Big Green, which is very dumb.

The Japanese name makes sense the puns.

I think I should watch them in Japanese dub one day, many because it has been decades since I last watched DBZ movies.

The other places I saw Fasha named as that was DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 3 (Wii version). But I know they name their characters incorrect. An example they call Cell Game Gohan Teen Gohan, when he isn't even a teenager.
Well, the thing that Bardock and his crew debuted in was a TV special, not a movie, just like the one about future Trunks fighting Nos. 17 & 18 with Gohan. FUNimation just erroneously labeled them as "movies" back in 2000, which frustratingly is something that they're STILL doing to this day, as the recent Crunchyroll (which merged with FUNimation last year) DVD re-release of Dragon Ball GT: The Complete Series that came out just a few months ago says ON FRONT OF THE BOX that it contains "EPISODES 01-64 + MOVIE"... you know, despite the fact that there never WAS a GT movie. It's 2023 and FUNi/CR is STILL referring to Gokū Side Story: The Proof of Courage is the Four-Star Ball, the Dragon Ball GT TV SPECIAL, as a movie when it absolutely is not *sigh* *facepalm*

But regardless, definitely watch the TV specials in Japanese! They're GREAT (definitely darker than Dragon Ball usually is, but in a good way), but the FUNi dubs of them are just... awful lol. Most of the actual DB/DBZ movies on the other hand are kinda mediocre at best, and focus on the worst aspects of the franchise while disregarding the truly good parts (i.e. most of them consist of nothing but 45 minutes worth of mindless action against boring supervillains with zero personality, usually concluding in Gokū narrowly saving the day, the end... *snore* lol) but they're decent enough, and worth watching at least once if you're a big fan of the franchise.

And yeah, I totally agree about Gohan. NEVER made sense to me that FUNi always called Cell Game Gohan a "teen", going back at the very least to the first Budōkai game in 2002, when he's supposed to be 10 or 11 then (depending on whether you're reading or watching). And ditto Boo arc Gohan being called "adult" Gohan when he's literally said to be 16 going on 17 then. Just more weird FUNi bullshit that sadly still persists to this day, needlessly confusing many members of the fandom...

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by HeroR » Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:49 am

Vegetto95 wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 12:38 pm
Well, the thing that Bardock and his crew debuted in was a TV special, not a movie, just like the one about future Trunks fighting Nos. 17 & 18 with Gohan. FUNimation just erroneously labeled them as "movies" back in 2000, which frustratingly is something that they're STILL doing to this day, as the recent Crunchyroll (which merged with FUNimation last year) DVD re-release of Dragon Ball GT: The Complete Series that came out just a few months ago says ON FRONT OF THE BOX that it contains "EPISODES 01-64 + MOVIE"... you know, despite the fact that there never WAS a GT movie. It's 2023 and FUNi/CR is STILL referring to Gokū Side Story: The Proof of Courage is the Four-Star Ball, the Dragon Ball GT TV SPECIAL, as a movie when it absolutely is not *sigh* *facepalm*

But regardless, definitely watch the TV specials in Japanese! They're GREAT (definitely darker than Dragon Ball usually is, but in a good way), but the FUNi dubs of them are just... awful lol. Most of the actual DB/DBZ movies on the other hand are kinda mediocre at best, and focus on the worst aspects of the franchise while disregarding the truly good parts (i.e. most of them consist of nothing but 45 minutes worth of mindless action against boring supervillains with zero personality, usually concluding in Gokū narrowly saving the day, the end... *snore* lol) but they're decent enough, and worth watching at least once if you're a big fan of the franchise.

And yeah, I totally agree about Gohan. NEVER made sense to me that FUNi always called Cell Game Gohan a "teen", going back at the very least to the first Budōkai game in 2002, when he's supposed to be 10 or 11 then (depending on whether you're reading or watching). And ditto Boo arc Gohan being called "adult" Gohan when he's literally said to be 16 going on 17 then. Just more weird FUNi bullshit that sadly still persists to this day, needlessly confusing many members of the fandom...
"Teen Gohan" existed before the Funi dub. I saw it on old websites before the Android Saga was even dub. The same with "Kid" Buu. Also, Funi hadn't nothing to do with the Budōkai games. Finally, Gohan was 9 in the manga and 11 in the anime.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Vegetto95
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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Vegetto95 » Sat Sep 23, 2023 12:18 pm

HeroR wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:49 am
Vegetto95 wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 12:38 pm And yeah, I totally agree about Gohan. NEVER made sense to me that FUNi always called Cell Game Gohan a "teen", going back at the very least to the first Budōkai game in 2002, when he's supposed to be 10 or 11 then (depending on whether you're reading or watching). And ditto Boo arc Gohan being called "adult" Gohan when he's literally said to be 16 going on 17 then. Just more weird FUNi bullshit that sadly still persists to this day, needlessly confusing many members of the fandom...
"Teen Gohan" existed before the Funi dub. I saw it on old websites before the Android Saga was even dub. The same with "Kid" Buu. Also, Funi hadn't nothing to do with the Budōkai games. Finally, Gohan was 9 in the manga and 11 in the anime.
Well, notice how I specifically wrote "going back at the very least to the first Budōkai game in 2002", so I'm not surprised at all lol

Did FUNi not write the scripts for the cutscenes or supervise the naming and terminology in the game? I mean, to be fair, it does have things like:
- Having Kaiōken written as as "King Kai Fist" (which, techinically, is 2/3rds accurately translated from Kaiōken), though in the cutscenes and the actual voice lines in battle, it's still FUNi's shitty mispronounced Kay-oken
- The accurate translation of Kikōhō as "Ki Blast Cannon" instead of their favorite dumbass tRi-BeAm, and unlike Kaiōken, that extended even to the in-battle voice lines and ONE instance in the cutscenes (when he fires it at Nappa), though it's said as merely "Blast Cannon"... though, of course, another instance (in the what-if story of Cell absorbing Kuririn) had him say Tri-Beam... *siiiiigh*
- The general, consistent use of the word "Ki" in the game, as opposed to FUNi's use of "energy" in their dub of the anime at the time.

But there are also a bunch of really weird, nonsensical, completely contradictory things in the story mode cutscenes that seem 100% like fuckups 2002 FUNimation would have made, like:
- Ōzaru Vegeta saying "That power level, where?" when Gohan and Kuririn show up, despite the fact that at that point Vegeta hadn't taught himself how to sense Ki yet (in the original Japanese, he's basically just like "What was that noise"?)
- Freeza saying "So, come back for more, have you? Some people just never learn, do they?" when Gokū first shows up to fight him... despite the fact that FREEZA HAD NEVER EVEN MET OR SEEN GOKŪ UNTIL THEN lmao
- Piccolo saying "Cell, you monster!", the second he first shows up in Ginger Town to fight him... despite the fact that that was the first time Piccolo had ever SEEN Cell, BEFORE they fight, AND before Toriyama ruined Cell's entire AMAZING setup by having him lazily exposit every single tiny little detail about himself to Piccolo, including the mere fact that's he's CALLED Cell lol

Plus, you also have the usual FUNi shit like Frieza, Krillin, Tien, Master Roshi, King Kai, Kay-oken, Say-in, Recoome, Burter, Jeice, Saibamen, Hercule, Dr. Djero, Flying Nimbus, Special Beam Cannon, etc. So, it was a REALLY weird mix of a bunch of things that TOTALLY seemed like stuff FUNi would absolutely have done at the time in 2002, and a very small handful of things that seem a tad off the beaten path for their usual practices at the time.

So did FUNi basically just do for Budōkai 1 what Ocean did for the 1996-98 FUNi/Saban Z dub and really only provided the voice acting, and all the other localization writing decisions were made by Infogrames or something along those lines?

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