Deep Thoughts: The Great Saiyaman Saga

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ABED
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Deep Thoughts: The Great Saiyaman Saga

Post by ABED » Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:13 pm

Starting with episode 200, there's a new theme song and a number of new pieces of score. I like the new opening and ending songs, but prefer the older score. I usually don't like change, but this was a nice fresh coat of paint. Thus begins the longest arc in all of Dragon Ball. At what point did Toriyama know it was the last one (or so he thought)? Even though he's apparently trying to bring Dragon Ball back to its roots, it's not completely back and it all flows very naturally from the silly start to the more dangerous body of the arc.

Okay, it didn't drag as much as I remembered, but it's because there aren't that many episodes centered around Gohan being the Great Saiyaman to begin with. That said, it is a joke that grows stale very quickly. My two favorite episodes in this saga are Gohan's first day of high school, especially playing baseball and his version of holding back. The other is Gohan being blackmailed into going on a date. He thinks it's because Angela knows he's a superhero when she knows he has teddy bear underwear. It's made even more hilarious that he isn't bothered by her knowing that. The only thing that could've made it better would be setting up the underwear at the beginning of the episode. No need to hammer it into people's heads, but just establish it. That said, it still works okay without the set up.

If Toriyama was interested in doing so, he could write more romcom elements into the show because the will they, won't they of Gohan and Videl (is their ship name Godel or Vihan?) is really great. It's my favorite romance on the show because there is genuine romance and sweetness to it. It feels like Toriyama is going out of his comfort zone, while retaining his irreverent sense of humor.

Gohan's characterization is slightly different from when he was a kid. I chalk that up to Gohan's surroundings. He's still his sweet and earnest self, but put that kid in a more realistic setting like a school with normal kids and you see him try to not draw attention or dress up as what he thinks is a cool superhero. I think he got that from Chichi. She seems to get her entire view of marriage and parenthood from magazines and TV/film. Gohan likely got what he thinks is cool from TV, perhaps Super Sentai.

My appreciation for the talent of Takeshi Kusao jumped several rungs when I discovered he voiced not just Trunks, but Chibi Trunks. That's range, ladies and gents. It's not just the pitch, but the kind of character. Chibi Trunks is RADICALLY different from the Trunks from the other timeline. It stands to reason given they have such vastly different childhoods. Then there's Goten who is so sweet and mischevious. His and Trunks' friendship is really endearing. Much like the two Trunks have divergent personalities due to their upbringings, Goten and Gohan are very different. We could see Chichi start to change by the middle of the Cell arc. I think after fighting Goku for so long she just gave in. But I also feel like she was maturing. Instead of trying to have her picturesque view of what a marriage and family should be, she was finally accepting it for what it truly was. And so she lets Goten be a kid. Does anyone know how far away Mt. Paoz is from West City? I don't think Goten and Trunks live a few houses down from each other. It's also interesting to see Vegeta as a civilian. After hundreds of episodes, it feels surprisingly natural to see him in sweats and domesticated.

The Great Saiyaman Saga is fun, but wears out its welcome pretty quickly. Thankfully it's not as long as I recalled and it moves swiftly into the next part of the story – the Tenkaichi Budokai. The Z Team is once again reuniting for a fun good spirited afternoon of martial arts where nothing will go wrong…

The Dub:
Kyle Hebert is good as Gohan. Not that this is important but when I first saw Hebert's picture, it was not at all what I was expecting when I heard his voice. While I'm not the biggest fan of his work as the narrator as I don't think he has that sort of voice, I do get a kick out of him being the voice of SmodCo as I'm a big Kevin Smith fan.
When I first heard Kara Edwards voice Goten, I didn't like it. It was better than Nadolny's Gohan and Goku but I didn't like it. I grew to like it by Kai as I think she improved greatly over time. Looking back, even the early episodes, it's not as bad as my initial impressions. It's pretty good.
Laura Bailey's Trunks, however, OMG! It's awful, just awful. She got better as time went on, but well… we'll get to Kai down the road, but she got moderately better but still sounds super raspy and forced. Her first appearance as Trunks is one of the worst bits of casting in Dragon Ball even after they broadened their talent pool. It doesn't merely sound like a woman trying to voice a young boy. It sounds like a grown woman trying to sound like a young boy who is trying to sound older by deepening their voice. Does that make any sense? She got slightly better not long after, but holy crap is that performance terrible in Chibi Trunks' first episode.
Sabat's finally found his Vegeta voice, but the performance needs work. He's dropped a lot of Piccolo's gravel, so he's getting there.
How did the edited version deal with Bulma's smoking? Usually the cigarette butts are painted out which is easy enough since they rarely show them actually smoking, but here Bulma's taking drags.

Home Video:
The picture they use on the back of the Saiyaman saga singles is the image from the opening credits where Gohan in his Saiyaman costume and Goku have their arms over each's shoulders and they're surrounded by their friends and family. It's a good image, but I was thinking they should've done something like show Gohan in his various stages, like The Golden Warrior, Saiyaman with the helmet, Saiyaman with the bandana and sun glasses.
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Re: Deep Thoughts: The Great Saiyaman Saga

Post by nineko » Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:08 pm

ABED wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:13 pmGodel
That's a mathematician.

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Re: Deep Thoughts: The Great Saiyaman Saga

Post by Asin » Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:45 pm

ABED wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:13 pm (is their ship name Godel or Vihan?)
If you are still curious, apparently the ship name is Hanvi. However, that was gleaned from tumblr tags, so I do not know if that is merely a DB tumblr thing or terminology from the wider community.

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Re: Deep Thoughts: The Great Saiyaman Saga

Post by Super Sonic » Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:00 pm

ABED wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:13 pm Laura Bailey's Trunks, however, OMG! It's awful, just awful. She got better as time went on, but well… we'll get to Kai down the road, but she got moderately better but still sounds super raspy and forced. Her first appearance as Trunks is one of the worst bits of casting in Dragon Ball even after they broadened their talent pool. It doesn't merely sound like a woman trying to voice a young boy. It sounds like a grown woman trying to sound like a young boy who is trying to sound older by deepening their voice. Does that make any sense? She got slightly better not long after, but holy crap is that performance terrible in Chibi Trunks' first episode.
Bet you didn't think 14 years later she'd be Black Widow and Chun-Li at the time huh? Or figure how big she'd become.

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Re: Deep Thoughts: The Great Saiyaman Saga

Post by ABED » Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:30 pm

Super Sonic wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:00 pm
ABED wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:13 pm Laura Bailey's Trunks, however, OMG! It's awful, just awful. She got better as time went on, but well… we'll get to Kai down the road, but she got moderately better but still sounds super raspy and forced. Her first appearance as Trunks is one of the worst bits of casting in Dragon Ball even after they broadened their talent pool. It doesn't merely sound like a woman trying to voice a young boy. It sounds like a grown woman trying to sound like a young boy who is trying to sound older by deepening their voice. Does that make any sense? She got slightly better not long after, but holy crap is that performance terrible in Chibi Trunks' first episode.
Bet you didn't think 14 years later she'd be Black Widow and Chun-Li at the time huh? Or figure how big she'd become.
I didn't even think she'd get better as Trunks.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Deep Thoughts: The Great Saiyaman Saga

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:49 pm

Laura Bailey also kind of ended up becoming Funimation's go to voice for "young women characters who aren't super important in Dragon Ball" Akane, Erasa, Ranfan, Fanfan, Hasky, and a bunch of others and she always sounded fine there, so I'm not surprised she got a prolific career voicing female roles in anime and video games. She just really wasn't suited for a young boy voice

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Re: Deep Thoughts: The Great Saiyaman Saga

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:58 pm

This mini arc is like an extended cut of the new opening and I like it.

I also loved seeing a "grown up" Trunks after an entire arc of seeing Baby Trunks. Like meeting a kid you knew as a baby, seeing the kid talking and all was fun.

I was short enough that it didn't overstay its welcome, and I guess Toyo loved it too because he basically did the same thing for Goten and Trunks.

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