Which villain does Goku hate the most?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Yuji
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1108
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:20 pm

Which villain does Goku hate the most?

Post by Yuji » Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:00 am

Once upon a time the answer would always be Freeza but I think he's mostly over it by now.

Zamasu, Cell and Moro seem to be the more likely candidates. They're the only villains since Daimao he's shown interest in outright killing.

User avatar
GokuHater
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:46 am

Re: Which villain does Goku hate the most?

Post by GokuHater » Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:26 am

TBF I don't see Super Goku hating anyone.
He had this rage moment against Black but that flickered as a candle in the end.
I also never saw any hatred towards Cell.
The only DBZ villain I think classifies is Freeza. He did things that really fueled our hero.

In DB however I feel like Tao Pai Pai and Piccolo Daimao would be good candidates.

User avatar
PerhapsTheOtherOne
I Live Here
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Re: Which villain does Goku hate the most?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Mon Mar 13, 2023 2:15 pm

I think Zamasu is about the closest in modern DB that Goku has gotten, mainly because of the sheer scope of this rogue Kaioshin's depravity to kill so many innocents while doing so in the name of justice.

At least Freeza was quite honest about how he enjoyed the slaughter and didn't give any pretenses about why he did it.

User avatar
sunsetshimmer
I Live Here
Posts: 2164
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 pm
Location: Poland/Equestria

Re: Which villain does Goku hate the most?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:01 pm

Baby, Piccolo or Zamasu from the more obvious choices. He had no mercy against either of them.

But i will go with less obvious choice - Naturon Shenron. Goku was actually willing to let most of dragons live if they handed dragon ball to him. He even was ready to spare Eis after what he had done. But against Naturon he not only did not show any mercy, but actually enjoyed killing him. He could kill him right away but actually decided to make him suffer before his death. It was the most ruthless kill Goku ever did. Goku was always against killing someone who can't even defend himself, but he only smiled to Naturon and said he isn't any reluctant to kill him. He even spared Frieza on Namek despite him causing so much evil. But he had absolutely no respect for this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5BDtKc2CoE

English dub of course changed entire dialogue, but he is still ruthless here.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

User avatar
SupremeKai25
I Live Here
Posts: 4052
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am

Re: Which villain does Goku hate the most?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Mar 14, 2023 6:21 am

Zamasu.

- He stole his body and destroyed his reputation (Goku came to be known as a monster in Future timeline).

- He used his body to kill his family.

- He gloated about it to his face, while stabbing him in the heart.

- He ruined the lives of Future Trunks and Future Bulma.

- He was unrepentant to the very end.

I think it's interesting how Goku was at the angriest he's ever been in this scene, the only other time he might have been this angry was against Frieza on Namek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIfZ0LSVl7s&t


This just shows you how great and well-written Zamasu is as a villain. The best villains are those who rile up the protagonists. If the protagonist does not hate or get angry at the villain, if the protagonist does not care about the villain, then the villain failed. Zamasu didn't fail, because Goku never looked this mad before, except MAYBE (maybe...) for when he went SS1 on Namek.

What I find very interesting about this scene is that, towards the end, Goku tried to strike at Black while he was unconscious... that was VERY unusual for Goku, because he NEVER strikes when an opponent is down. Even Frieza. When Frieza was defeated on the ground, Goku gave him energy and left him alone. But here, with Black unconscious on the ground, Goku was going for the final blow. This was a very interesting moment, with important implications.

This final moment to me is proof that Goku hated Black/Zamasu even more than Frieza. Because when Frieza was defeated on the ground, Goku felt mercy and gave him energy. But when Black was (seemingly; apparently) defeated on the ground, Goku was still visibly furious and tried to go for the kill, with that final fist that was blocked.

I definitely can't think of a villain who got more hate from Goku than Zamasu. Probably because no other villain did so many sick and twisted things to Goku and his family. All other villains were fine with just killing the man, Zamasu wanted to RUIN him and his reputation. So he stole his body and used it to spread chaos and terror, so that people would get PTSD just by looking at Goku's face.

I think what separates Zamasu from all other "hated" villains (Frieza, Cell, Moro) is just how "personal" Zamasu crimes were. He truly got under Goku's skin. He didn't just kill his family and commit genocide, he did it while using Goku's face and power. He perverted Goku's strength and used it for genocide. This makes it much more personal for Goku and it is the reason why I would, ultimately, say that Zamasu was the most hated villain, who caused Goku the most pain and suffering.

User avatar
Desassina
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1534
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Which villain does Goku hate the most?

Post by Desassina » Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:11 am

At some point, it must have been Moro, because he pretty much made an angel disappear, triggering Goku to defeat him, but not without showing some disdain by giving him a senzu bean first. Since Ultra Instincts is supposed to be kept through calm, his anger did not show until Goku unleashed everything, in some weird Avatar fashion. Merusu's death is kinda like Kuririn's on Namek since there was a limit to how many times one could be revived and no Dragon Balls in the horizon. However, these events are softened by their eventual return, and it's weird how Goku never showed the same for Gohan when he was supposed to be 'permanently' dead in the Boo arc. Perhaps Goku hates nobody.

User avatar
Koitsukai
I Live Here
Posts: 4276
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: Which villain does Goku hate the most?

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:35 pm

- I wouldn't say Freeza, by now he has some qualities Goku should admire, like the determination to train for an entire decade, and keeping on breaking his own limits.
- Moro, I don't know, he tried to spare his life, and saw some potential in him to be something else than a consumer of worlds.


- Zamasu, yeah, this guy has no qualities Goku would admire. He's basically a coward, cheating his way to the top, using the DBs, stealing bodies, wishing immortality, using fusion, jumping people 2 v 1, there's no shortcut he wouldn't take. He is the other side of a Goku coin.
And he wiped out the entire universe, his family and planned on jumping to other timelines, so he's not like a harmless coward like Granola, he's a disease and the only time Goku went: CTRL-ALT-DEL.

- The Ice dragon from GT, that's another contender. The dude is a psychopath and messed with Goku's granddaughter, used her as a shield. The only time I can recall Goku pulled a SS2 Gohan on someone, you know, trying to make somebody suffer like that, he behaved like a villain for a moment.

- Tambourine, that's another villain that made Goku not think. Vs Zamasu, he went back and forth a few times, vs the Dragon he was taking his time... but vs Tambourine he was seeing red, there was no tomorrow. He didn't care he had no gas left in the tank, didn't care about his injuries or being outclassed, he just went ahead and faced him.


So, it's either Zamasu, the Ice Dragon, or Tambourine.

User avatar
Peach
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:57 am

Re: Which villain does Goku hate the most?

Post by Peach » Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:50 pm

I've never seen him get angrier than when Zamasu talked about killing his family. So i'm going to go with that.

Piccolo Daimao and his children came close, but I think he was so fixated on the loss of Krillin at the time. If he really held onto that resentment, it would have carried over to his reincarnation, Jr.

User avatar
sunsetshimmer
I Live Here
Posts: 2164
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 pm
Location: Poland/Equestria

Re: Which villain does Goku hate the most?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Tue Mar 14, 2023 6:57 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:35 pm - The Ice dragon from GT, that's another contender. The dude is a psychopath and messed with Goku's granddaughter, used her as a shield. The only time I can recall Goku pulled a SS2 Gohan on someone, you know, trying to make somebody suffer like that, he behaved like a villain for a moment.
Like i said above, even though Eis was playing dirty, perhaps more than any other villain in series, even worse scum than Omega, Goku was still ready to spare him, even if he did that only because Nuova asked him to do that. But he had no intention to spare Naturon and he actually enjoyed killing him. That guy was completely defenseless at that point, yet Goku decided to make him suffer before his death and went completely overkill, punching him multiple times in stomach and blasting with Kamehameha. Eis used Pan as a shield and beaten her, but Naturon absorbed her and almost forced Goku to kill her to get him so i guess he was more angry about that. He basically smiled when he said he feels no remorse to kill him.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

User avatar
ZombieVito
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5901
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Which villain does Goku hate the most?

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Mar 15, 2023 12:25 am

The one he literally tries to kill when he was down.

User avatar
Rafa Fast
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:18 pm

Re: Which villain does Goku hate the most?

Post by Rafa Fast » Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:01 pm

I don't think this one is hated by him, but I saw a time ago someone saying that Goku thinks Moro is the most pathetic villain he has ever fought, as he didn't cared about training but just stealing the power from the others, and copying ofc, so maybe...not, I think I'll go with Zamasu too, after eveything he did, Goku didn't even stop to talk to him, unlike he did with Moro.
Of course, I'm talking canon-wise, out of canon Goku pretty much hates everyone :lol:
I simply wouldn't want to imagine my life without Dragon Ball, thank you Akira Toriyama (1955-2024), you are now immortal.

User avatar
Lionel
I Live Here
Posts: 2393
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:54 am

Re: Which villain does Goku hate the most?

Post by Lionel » Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:23 pm

It's hard to break through the guise of a simple, fun loving protector of the world who tries to give his opponents a chance to walk away. The occasions where someone has genuinely gotten under his skin and infuriated him to the point of despising them are few -- Tambourine, Piccolo Daimou, Freeza, and to an extent Zamasu (anime) come to mind. How long did Goku's fury last for them in those moments, though? Two of them were so intense that Goku managed to kill his enemies and failed to hesitate at all; he even apologised to Yajirobe for not preserving Tambourine's body because he was so angry. Against Zamasu he was angry for a time but that seemed to subside the next time they encountered one another.

I think Goku has managed to put his anger aside beside it's not what defines him as a person; he isn't one to harbour any long term animosity against people. You see this with Piccolo Jr who was the reincarnation of Daimou yet Goku only seemed interested in partaking in a difficult fight and stopping him from carrying out his agenda. Freeza is at least tolerated by Goku ever since the Tournament of Power so I wouldn't point to him as an example of ceaseless indignation.

User avatar
Ashur
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:48 am

Re: Which villain does Goku hate the most?

Post by Ashur » Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:11 am

sunsetshimmer wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:01 pm Baby, Piccolo or Zamasu from the more obvious choices. He had no mercy against either of them.

But i will go with less obvious choice - Naturon Shenron. Goku was actually willing to let most of dragons live if they handed dragon ball to him. He even was ready to spare Eis after what he had done. But against Naturon he not only did not show any mercy, but actually enjoyed killing him. He could kill him right away but actually decided to make him suffer before his death. It was the most ruthless kill Goku ever did. Goku was always against killing someone who can't even defend himself, but he only smiled to Naturon and said he isn't any reluctant to kill him. He even spared Frieza on Namek despite him causing so much evil. But he had absolutely no respect for this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5BDtKc2CoE

English dub of course changed entire dialogue, but he is still ruthless here.
It could be an effect of the SSJ4 transformation, however, maybe the normal Goku wouldn't have been so ruthless and enjoying the killing like he did here, we know SSJ4 enhances one's Saiyan nature and personality traits.

That said, messing with Pan the way he did is certainly a way to get under GT Goku's skin, he values her a lot, according to himself she is the most important person in his life, so between that and the SSJ4 saiyan characteristics, it makes sense Goku was extra ruthless here.

I think that base Goku would still be furious at Naturon for what he did and want to humilliate him a bit, but not enjoy the killing like he does in SSJ4.

User avatar
Scientist Fu
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:45 am

Re: Which villain does Goku hate the most?

Post by Scientist Fu » Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:40 am

I don't see Goku hating on anyone for the rest of his life. He does not forgive when you harm others for sure, especially if you hurt his own relatives, but it all happens in a moment of anger. He also got really pissed off when Jiren tried to attack his friends in the ToP. But anyway, if I had to pick someone it would be Frieza because that's the first he transformed into a SSJ.

Post Reply