Worst decisions ever made

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sunsetshimmer
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Re: Worst decisions ever made

Post by sunsetshimmer » Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:58 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:27 pm However, he was still able to wish back the Earth after the BSDB blew up the planet.
While it wasn't really confirmed, it might be possible that Porunga was able to bring back Earth BUT wasn't able to stop it from being destroyed (which is what BSDBs caused)
Why would Baby need the Black Star Dragon Balls to wish back Planet Plant when he use the Earth Dragon Balls? He has Vegeta's body, he would know about them. He would have three wishes that he can make such as become ruler of the universe, become immortal, and wish back Planet Plant.
That's a good question. Maybe he was simply patient (and he obviously was until then, slowly making his moves) and decided to wait for Goku and others, catch them by surprise and steal their DBs to make his wish once he was sure there was no one left to stop him. He could want to achieve one goal (getting rid of saiyans) before going further with his plans. If he wished for his planet before Goku arrived, they would obviously notice it and knew something was going on. Also Baby didn't seem to be type of coward to wish for immortality or to rule over people. He wanted to achieve his goal by using his own abilities. Even if it meant using someone's body or mind - it was still his own ability. WIshing for those things would be an easy way.
Dr. Gero and Dr. Myu decided to make a Super 17 instead just making a new original character? #17 is the one that killed Gero, so it sounds dumb to make another version of a character that killed him in the first place.
Well, Hell Fighter 17 was completely different being and while Super 17 betraying Myuu was influeced by OG 17 taking over, Gero was killed by HF17 who was programmed by Myuu. So Gero would have died no matter what. Unlike OG 17, Super 17 killing Gero was nothing personal. And they made 17 because they wanted him to fuse with OG 17. Idk, maybe it was needed for fusion to work to make another 17. This arc had lazy writing.
Some of the Shadow Dragons should have been born from other wishes. I'm surprise the wish to remove the bombs in #17 and #18 didn't give birth to anyone. That's probably consider to be a worse wish than wishing for underwear.
Panties were added for comedy obviously and as a context for Oceanus being female and blushing. Also, wish for panties was probably worse wish. Why? Because it was made to stop Pilaf. Something that can be considered as relying on dragon balls to fix problems instead of dealing with them. Removing bombs wasn't really a meaningful wish, it was just randomly made to use all wishes Shenron could grant at that moment.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: Worst decisions ever made

Post by Zinnia » Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:28 am

Hellspawn28 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:27 pm Goku never turn back into adult after the Black Star Dragon Ball hunt.
I disagree with this. We already had 291 episodes and 13 movies of Z with adult Goku, there's nothing wrong with a full season of him as a kid again. Especially since SS4 came in the middle and made for a nice balance between his kid and adult selves.
Hellspawn28 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:27 pm It makes creepy to imagine Adult Chi Chi being in bed with kid Goku unless he goes SSj4.
He probably sleeps like a little kid next to her, it's not like they're having any more babies or anything by that time :P

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Re: Worst decisions ever made

Post by BWri » Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:20 am

Yuji wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:41 pm I understand Toriyama wants to tell concise and focused character-driven stories that rely on the main characters and a general guest character (Trunks, Merus, Granolah, 17, etc) to tag along each arc, and I appreciate that, but if that's the case then the scale of Super should be severely toned down.

Multiverses full of infinite possibilities, Timeline-altering threats, tournaments with the fate of existence at hand. These concepts set up a scope that Toriyama does not care to explore and will inevitably leave fans disappointed clamoring about "wasted potential," even if what is there is good and solid stuff. You can see that the scale has been reduced with the last two movies to focus on more tightly written and personal stories on Earth and yet a general sentiment persists that "the multiverse is being wasted" all because of the promises established long ago starting with the ending of BoG and the premises to the initial Super arcs.
I largely agree with this in Super but the whole series since the Namek arc has this problem. Ever since RoF Super arcs feels like an abridged version of something much more interesting. Each arc never really lives up to its premise and falls flat.

Frieza's back?

Four months of no context training later, he has 1 fight in a 2 fight arc and gets killed. Everything that happens with the character years later almost feels like a retcon to fix the issues of RoF. You know, him being an active strong presence in the galaxy and using extreme training methods over a sensible period of time to greatly surpass his rivals ... yeah.

New Tournament with a twin universe?

Most of the characters are not really threatening. The Saiyan (supposedly one of the strongest) doesn't even know what Super Saiyan is (none of them do). And nothing is really accomplished with the premise as we don't get to explore the other universe and the tournament itself is tepid outside of one match which is the antithesis of what makes a tournament interesting.

Future Trunks is in trouble?

The anime used Goku Black masterfully. It's amazing how that production made what should have been a trash character into arguably the best villain in Super thus far. However, everything else in the arc falls hard. The fact that all of this takes place in Trunks world makes little sense. The time travel spamming, leaving Trunks alone with an enemy they couldn't even beat together, the ending, the solution to the ending. And even though I like the idea of Merged Zamasu because these are all his machinations and he is a narcisistic god, he pales in comparison to such a charasmatic villain as Goku Black so the "villain switch" is a bit of a let down. None of it really works by the time the arc is done which is a shame because it started so strong.

ToP?
I think most would agree that this arc was full of wasted potential. Probably more than any other arc in the series. I'll just leave it at that.

Broly?
Strong start, good premise, good payoff, but the middle section of this story just fell flat. It's probably because Broly became a mindless avatar of wrath, but I was actually disappointed by Vegeta. His response to discovering survivors of his dead race, especially one with Broly's potential was so tepid. And he spared no thought when it came to killing him. Like what bruh, don't talk about Saiyan anything anymore. You have no solidarity with your people.

Moro?
I genuinely liked the Moro arc for many reasons. Out of all the arcs at that point, it was the most complete IMO, but it did have its problems and lost sight of itself by the end and what it wanted to do. But, that may have made it more entertaining :lol:

Granolah?
Good start. Was into the premise, but it dragged a lot with the fights. I have to blame Gas. I think if more time was given on him and Granolah at the start then his extensive page count as the antagonist would connect me to him more, but as it stood it really felt like two Xenoverse create-a-characters banging against one another for hundreds of pages. Didn't help that Gas had no charisma and little agency of his own. But if they could've told the story of Bardock, Granolah, Gas, Goku, the Heaters and Monaito more succinctly, I would have enjoyed it way more. Hell, even if the page count was focused on something other than fighting, that would have helped. The action junkie in me hates to say that.

Super Hero?

This and BoG are probably the ones I have the least complaints about. BoG had problems too but I don't feel like listing them. For this one, being a massive Piccolo fan, I'd really like to see the original Piccolo script and if Cell Max would have even been in that one ... buuuuuut ... and this is kind of a hot take ... I think the movie was improved with the included focus on Gohan. Because of that, it allowed the movie's breakout star to have some characterization and develop and that breakout star is Pan. Without Gohan's inclusion I don't think we'd get such good Pan/Piccolo scenes or even such a strong connection between the two. That said, Gohan's inclusion also brings many weaknesses to the film such as another form with virtually no context, pushing Gohan to the top of the power heirarchy once more without resolving the problem which I refer to as the "Gohan Loop". And having Cell Max be mindless feels like it leaves a lot on the table but I didn't mind. I think bringing back Cell's original personality would have been fun, but with so many fun characters fighting him and with him not being around for very long, the lack of personality didn't feel as pronounced as it does when I'm watching DBS: Broly.

Bonus:
Namek in Z?
Absolutely phenomenal until Goku arrives. The premise of fighting the universe's tyrannical emperor should have been postponed by perhaps another arc. As Gripes once said, Toriyama-san blew his l**d early as he often does to give Goku the "strongest of" title quickly. The Moro arc did what this arc should have done once the Ginyu's were introduced. The characters should have been forced to flee and regroup. Ideally, they would have had time to recover and train then taken the fight to Frieza in his territory. The fact that all this happened on this barren popsicle tree planet over the course of maybe 2 days is wild. We go from barely surviving Nappa to scrapping with Frieza in such a short amount of time.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-

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