What are some overlooked quotes or moments you enjoy?

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Re: What are some overlooked quotes or moments you enjoy?

Post by coola » Fri Mar 31, 2023 8:41 am

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:26 am It's from the latin dub, but Gohan yells something about Nappa's mom and he replies "what did you say about my mother? she is a saint". Now with Gine, Bardock and the saiyans being less jerks, it doesn't hit as hard, but back when we thought even their puppies were evil, thinking of Nappa's mom as some kind of nice lady was awesome.
In Polish voice over version it was:
"Your mom's a coarse witch!"
"H..How did you know? Who told you?"
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Re: What are some overlooked quotes or moments you enjoy?

Post by Y2_O3 » Sun May 14, 2023 8:20 am

Zephyr wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:27 am I like how Cell's perfect form first appears literally the next page after Gohan first becomes a Super Saiyan. On re-reads, this moment stands out quite a bit as all but spelling out that they're going to be fighting each other by the time the arc is over.
Except for chapter 382 where Gohan and Cell both transform, four chapters earlier in chapter 378, there is a page of them both charging up with nearly identical movements.
I remember Akira Toriyama using this kind of Parallel editing (a cross cutting technique from movies) very early on, where when Kid Goku and Yajirobe were climbing Karin Tower, Piccolo was climbing the King's Palace layer by layer.
Obviously, author expressed a philosophy of mutual generation and mutual restraint ☯, just like the grudges and promoting between the Red Ribbon Army, Androids, Cell, and Goku and his son, or the relationships between Frieza, Bardock, Vegeta, and Goku.
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Re: What are some overlooked quotes or moments you enjoy?

Post by Y2_O3 » Sun May 14, 2023 11:04 am

Yuji wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:43 pm I really like how flippant everyone seems to be regarding the death of innocents in the Boo arc. Bulma tells Goku Boo is coming to West City? Calm down, we can wish them all back. Boo deflects a Kamehameha and blows a chunk off the Earth, killing millions? Goku doesn't even react to it even when Babidi points it out. Need to waste time for Gotenks to get ready? Piccolo tells Boo to kill everyone on Earth. Admittedly Piccolo was more reactive here but more-so because it was in vain.

It really highlights how at this point these characters are such veterans in dealing with world ending threats that murder civilians to the point they're beyond desensitized and already look to the dragon balls as the reset button.
I also like this, but I have a different interpretation from yours. When Bobbidi the Warlock put out a global warrant for Goten and Trunks, Piccolo expressed his dissatisfaction and said he couldn't stand to see innocent civilians sacrificed. He wanted to go find Buu, but Goku stopped him. In the manga, Goku's words were that he wanted him to stay and teach the kids fusion, and that the dragonballs could reset everything. But this was just literal excuses to comfort Piccolo. In reality, Goku wasn't fighting for the sake of Earth's people. He was saving the world indeed, but he never had a deliberate intention to save all mankind. So Goku doesn't need the gratitude of someone, nor does he care about their misunderstandings. The Diamond Sutra in Buddhism states that a Bodhisattva saves people without holding onto the concept of "住相"(attachment to form), and the core belief in Taoism is similar: you can do good things, but don't hold onto a deliberate attachment.

Mr. Satan is a negative example, who always needs an audience to do something. He'll set up a tripod and take selfies if there isn't a camera crew broadcasting. It's like how people these days are so focused on sharing photos online that they forget to enjoy the beauty and food right in front of them.
Vegeta used to be obsessed with his noble prince status and only had his sights set on surpassing Kakarot. But at the end of the Buu arc, when he let go of these thoughts, he suddenly realized that since he wasn't fighting for the sake of someone, why not let Earth's people themselves take responsibility for once? This is what sets Dragon Ball apart from other manga. There's no such thing as JUSTICE RESPONSIBILITY or DREAMS here. Just doing things for a certain purpose makes it easy to neglect the essence of things.

After Goku heads back to the afterlife, Piccolo doesn't hesitate to let Majin Buu kill all the Earthlings. Rather than taking over Goku's position as the strategic commander, he returns to Kami-sama's philosophical heights — he wouldn't actively stretch his hand to manage specific affairs in the world (even though he could). In the real world, we often see government policies that were originally well-intentioned but lead to tragic consequences. In the Taoist management concept, "letting nature take its course" is a better method, no matter it's becoming better or worse. So Piccolo and Goku are not confused by this issue, but it does not mean they are desensitized.

When Goku was young, Kami-sama told him not to rely on the dragonballs, so Goku never once made a personal request to Shenlong, even for his own resurrection. As a DB fan, if I had the chance to make a wish to Shenlong, I might say, "This is fine. Things are good as they are now." The Z-warriors did not become reckless because of the dragonballs, as they had already learned to let go of their own desires and view things around them with an ordinary heart. Of course, the manga still exaggerates for the sake of dramatic conflict, but I think Dragon Ball is the outstanding story that best embodies this philosophical thinking.


Therefore, my favorite (and most overlooked) quotes is after the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament, when Kami-sama wanted to kill Piccolo with his own hands but was stopped by Goku — on the surface, Goku said that if Piccolo died, Kami-sama would die too, but in reality, sacrificing oneself is not difficult for someone with ideals or justice, and Kami-sama was willing to die for his innocent and upright reputation. What's really important is what Master Roshi said next — Kami-sama created the dragonballs, which led to the adventures of Goku and others, creating a YIN and YANG balance circle. We shouldn't break this cycle.(Especially considering Piccolo once killed Shenlong.) So Kami-sama changed his mind and praised Goku's master in person. Later, we also saw that the dragonballs were the source of all hope, as well as the ominous things which brought Vegeta and Frieza. Like a coin, there is always a HEAD and a TAIL.
Master Roshi's words are not only the end of a chapter, but also the starting of the next chapter. Only a person with a very high perspective and a deep understanding of the world can say such a thing.

Goku also tried to break this cause-and-effect cycle by staying in the afterlife, because of realizing that he, as a righteous person, was one of the reasons for the emergence of bad guys. But in the end, he doesn't cling to living there. Whether at Kaiō's place, at home, or at Uub's place, it doesn't matter. What is important is the unbound mind, to do one's current things well and to live each day happily and fulfilled, just as Master Roshi said that morning.
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Re: What are some overlooked quotes or moments you enjoy?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon May 15, 2023 5:30 pm

I love this moment between Zamasu and Gowasu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWVmscHkOT4

This is such a unique and underrated moment, this scene is often overlooked by the fandom. Dragon Ball isn't a series with complex villains, it's not a series where the villain talks about the philosophy of Good and Evil, so this scene was extremely creative and unprecedented. How many Dragon Ball villains besides Zamasu have scenes where they delve into such philosophical topics? That's what I thought.

And I personally think that this scene is written solidly and shows very well the fundamental contrast between Gowasu and Zamasu. Gowasu believes that mortals are not evil, because (according to him) they always have the potential for redemption. The role of Gods is to guide mortals on the path towards moral improvement. Meanwhile, Zamasu believes that mortals are actually the source of evil, and he believes that creatures who can choose the evil path (like mortals) shouldn't exist. According to Zamasu, the role of Gods is to remove these useless creatures, and I like the comparison with a "gardener" who has to "pluck the weeds".

In this scene, Zamasu explains his motivations and his point of view in a clear way, and so this is a well-written scene, because it easily explains to us the roots of Zamasu's dangerous ideology. In any story of any kind, it is very important to establish what the Main Villain seeks to accomplish, what they believe in, and this scene does just that.

In conclusion, this is one of the best-written moments for Zamasu and it is definitely underrated by the fandom. I also think that certain viewers do not try to give credit to the writers.There is some complexity in the character of Zamasu and the themes of this arc (like the nature of mortals) that some people tend to ignore.

And again, it is unprecedented for a Dragon Ball villain to have a scene like this (philosophical debate scene).

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Re: What are some overlooked quotes or moments you enjoy?

Post by Zephyr » Tue May 16, 2023 9:02 am

Y2_O3 wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 8:20 am
Zephyr wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:27 am I like how Cell's perfect form first appears literally the next page after Gohan first becomes a Super Saiyan. On re-reads, this moment stands out quite a bit as all but spelling out that they're going to be fighting each other by the time the arc is over.
Except for chapter 382 where Gohan and Cell both transform, four chapters earlier in chapter 378, there is a page of them both charging up with nearly identical movements.
I remember Akira Toriyama using this kind of Parallel editing (a cross cutting technique from movies) very early on, where when Kid Goku and Yajirobe were climbing Karin Tower, Piccolo was climbing the King's Palace layer by layer.
Damn, I've never noticed the parallel between Goku and Piccolo both climbing towers. Also don't know how I never caught Gohan and Cell struggling and powering up in Chapter 378 on the re-reads where I noticed the bit in 382. Thanks for pointing these out!

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Re: What are some overlooked quotes or moments you enjoy?

Post by Majin Buu » Tue May 16, 2023 11:42 am

Yuji wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:43 pm Need to waste time for Gotenks to get ready? Piccolo tells Boo to kill everyone on Earth. Admittedly Piccolo was more reactive here but more-so because it was in vain.
To bounce off of this moment:

Buu killing everyone on Earth from the temple isn't overlooked, but I feel an aspect of it is: That it reads like black comedy. The set up- Piccolo tells Buu to go kill everyone on Earth hoping to buy Goten and Trunks time. The punchline- Buu kills everyone left on Earth in a few minutes without even leaving the temple. It's the kind of dark joke that fits this actively evil version of Buu and provides a more subtle example of how the Buu arc effectively mixes comedy and terror.

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Re: What are some overlooked quotes or moments you enjoy?

Post by Y2_O3 » Tue May 16, 2023 10:36 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 5:30 pm I love this moment between Zamasu and Gowasu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWVmscHkOT4

This is such a unique and underrated moment, this scene is often overlooked by the fandom. Dragon Ball isn't a series with complex villains, it's not a series where the villain talks about the philosophy of Good and Evil, so this scene was extremely creative and unprecedented. How many Dragon Ball villains besides Zamasu have scenes where they delve into such philosophical topics? That's what I thought.

And I personally think that this scene is written solidly and shows very well the fundamental contrast between Gowasu and Zamasu. Gowasu believes that mortals are not evil, because (according to him) they always have the potential for redemption. The role of Gods is to guide mortals on the path towards moral improvement. Meanwhile, Zamasu believes that mortals are actually the source of evil, and he believes that creatures who can choose the evil path (like mortals) shouldn't exist. According to Zamasu, the role of Gods is to remove these useless creatures, and I like the comparison with a "gardener" who has to "pluck the weeds".

In this scene, Zamasu explains his motivations and his point of view in a clear way, and so this is a well-written scene, because it easily explains to us the roots of Zamasu's dangerous ideology. In any story of any kind, it is very important to establish what the Main Villain seeks to accomplish, what they believe in, and this scene does just that.

In conclusion, this is one of the best-written moments for Zamasu and it is definitely underrated by the fandom. I also think that certain viewers do not try to give credit to the writers.There is some complexity in the character of Zamasu and the themes of this arc (like the nature of mortals) that some people tend to ignore.

And again, it is unprecedented for a Dragon Ball villain to have a scene like this (philosophical debate scene).
#

I like the philosophical topics of Good and Evil in Dragon Ball, such as Kami-sama's attitude towards Ma Junior, Piccolo Daimaō's offspring, and Goku's attitude towards his friends and enemies.

Karin and Kami prefer to stay high above and observe mortals, rarely interfering in worldly affairs. If Kami were to punish evildoers, what would happen? The 23rd Tenka’ichi Budōkai showed us the consequence. Kami failed, but it was not important; what mattered was that he was stopped by Goku and Master Roshi from killing Piccolo. This was the only time Kami let personal emotions cloud his judgment, and his actions were partly driven by selfish motives for his own reputation and dignity. Does this remind you of Hank from Breaking Bad?

Good and evil are a contradictory duality, born and grown together. Although the balance of their power may be disrupted, it is impossible for one side to eliminate the other and achieve a forever happy ending. It is not enough to rely solely on Batman or Harvey Dent's personal strength, right? In fact, Master Roshi has a more insightful view on this issue. Good and Evil are opposing forces that can also transform into each other, under certain conditions. Master Roshi repeatedly transformed enemies into friends at the Tenka’ichi Budōkai, and Goku did not insist on killing his enemies. This may seem simple, but it is the inevitable choice after complex philosophical debates.

Goku treats good guys around the same way. After fighting Android 19, he no longer relied on his own personal strength to deal with problems, but began to give space and opportunity and cultivate offspring; after the Cell game, he also realized that it was unreasonable for his son to force Gohan to grow up. So he did not force Gohan to become stronger, nor did he expect Vegeta a good person. When you see something as a weed, you want to pluck it immediately; when you see something as useful wood, you want it to grow as fast as possible. This is how personal values shape our perception of things. If a high-level manager always wears colored glasses, the consequences could be terrible. The characters in Dragon Ball influence those around them in a more subtle way, just like water, like a spring rain, like a mountain stream, quietly nourishing all things. They do their own thing and never argue about grand principles.

Zamasu is wrong, not only because his methods are cruel, but also because he wants to solve everything with his own power and lacks a comprehensive perspective. Trunks in the Android Arc is also too obsessed with his justice. This kind of extreme emotion can easily blind a person's eyes, but the problem of Zamasu is more obvious, and the hidden danger of Trunks is not easy to be noticed. A skilled gardener will allow branches to grow naturally, even if they are crooked and twisted, and he can still create a harmonious landscape. Akira Toriyama is such a gardener (although he never admits it). But ordinary fans may not understand this way because it goes against common sense—isn't it the gardener's job to trim the branches neatly, straight, uniform, and symmetrical?

If there is one scene to describe the philosophy of Good and Evil in Dragon Ball, it is Goku actively shaking hands with Android 16 before the Cell Games. Goku, Kuririn and Bulma treated 16 without prejudice, and it treated Mr. Satan and Gohan in the same way. Android 16 rarely speaks, it is always overlooked, much like Dragon Ball itself. Normal.
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Re: What are some overlooked quotes or moments you enjoy?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon May 22, 2023 6:35 am

Y2_O3 wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 10:36 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 5:30 pm I love this moment between Zamasu and Gowasu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWVmscHkOT4

This is such a unique and underrated moment, this scene is often overlooked by the fandom. Dragon Ball isn't a series with complex villains, it's not a series where the villain talks about the philosophy of Good and Evil, so this scene was extremely creative and unprecedented. How many Dragon Ball villains besides Zamasu have scenes where they delve into such philosophical topics? That's what I thought.

And I personally think that this scene is written solidly and shows very well the fundamental contrast between Gowasu and Zamasu. Gowasu believes that mortals are not evil, because (according to him) they always have the potential for redemption. The role of Gods is to guide mortals on the path towards moral improvement. Meanwhile, Zamasu believes that mortals are actually the source of evil, and he believes that creatures who can choose the evil path (like mortals) shouldn't exist. According to Zamasu, the role of Gods is to remove these useless creatures, and I like the comparison with a "gardener" who has to "pluck the weeds".

In this scene, Zamasu explains his motivations and his point of view in a clear way, and so this is a well-written scene, because it easily explains to us the roots of Zamasu's dangerous ideology. In any story of any kind, it is very important to establish what the Main Villain seeks to accomplish, what they believe in, and this scene does just that.

In conclusion, this is one of the best-written moments for Zamasu and it is definitely underrated by the fandom. I also think that certain viewers do not try to give credit to the writers.There is some complexity in the character of Zamasu and the themes of this arc (like the nature of mortals) that some people tend to ignore.

And again, it is unprecedented for a Dragon Ball villain to have a scene like this (philosophical debate scene).
#

I like the philosophical topics of Good and Evil in Dragon Ball, such as Kami-sama's attitude towards Ma Junior, Piccolo Daimaō's offspring, and Goku's attitude towards his friends and enemies.

Karin and Kami prefer to stay high above and observe mortals, rarely interfering in worldly affairs. If Kami were to punish evildoers, what would happen? The 23rd Tenka’ichi Budōkai showed us the consequence. Kami failed, but it was not important; what mattered was that he was stopped by Goku and Master Roshi from killing Piccolo. This was the only time Kami let personal emotions cloud his judgment, and his actions were partly driven by selfish motives for his own reputation and dignity. Does this remind you of Hank from Breaking Bad?

Good and evil are a contradictory duality, born and grown together. Although the balance of their power may be disrupted, it is impossible for one side to eliminate the other and achieve a forever happy ending. It is not enough to rely solely on Batman or Harvey Dent's personal strength, right? In fact, Master Roshi has a more insightful view on this issue. Good and Evil are opposing forces that can also transform into each other, under certain conditions. Master Roshi repeatedly transformed enemies into friends at the Tenka’ichi Budōkai, and Goku did not insist on killing his enemies. This may seem simple, but it is the inevitable choice after complex philosophical debates. Ofc, Gowasu also says that mortals have the potential to go back to the light, and we see that several characters in DB were former villains who had a redemption arc, but Gowasu also ignores that there are some mortals who are just too far gone and should simply be killed (Frieza, Cell, Moro, etc.).

Goku treats good guys around the same way. After fighting Android 19, he no longer relied on his own personal strength to deal with problems, but began to give space and opportunity and cultivate offspring; after the Cell game, he also realized that it was unreasonable for his son to force Gohan to grow up. So he did not force Gohan to become stronger, nor did he expect Vegeta a good person. When you see something as a weed, you want to pluck it immediately; when you see something as useful wood, you want it to grow as fast as possible. This is how personal values shape our perception of things. If a high-level manager always wears colored glasses, the consequences could be terrible. The characters in Dragon Ball influence those around them in a more subtle way, just like water, like a spring rain, like a mountain stream, quietly nourishing all things. They do their own thing and never argue about grand principles.

Zamasu is wrong, not only because his methods are cruel, but also because he wants to solve everything with his own power and lacks a comprehensive perspective. Trunks in the Android Arc is also too obsessed with his justice. This kind of extreme emotion can easily blind a person's eyes, but the problem of Zamasu is more obvious, and the hidden danger of Trunks is not easy to be noticed. A skilled gardener will allow branches to grow naturally, even if they are crooked and twisted, and he can still create a harmonious landscape. Akira Toriyama is such a gardener (although he never admits it). But ordinary fans may not understand this way because it goes against common sense—isn't it the gardener's job to trim the branches neatly, straight, uniform, and symmetrical?

If there is one scene to describe the philosophy of Good and Evil in Dragon Ball, it is Goku actively shaking hands with Android 16 before the Cell Games. Goku, Kuririn and Bulma treated 16 without prejudice, and it treated Mr. Satan and Gohan in the same way. Android 16 rarely speaks, it is always overlooked, much like Dragon Ball itself. Normal.
Yes, that dialogue between Zamasu and Gowasu about the nature of Good and Evil was particularly appropriate for Dragon Ball, a series where the MC is able to bring the best out of people and reformed several villains. It is a dialogue going back to the very roots of the show, but ironically Zamasu also has a point. It's not like anyone cared when objectively evil creatures like Cell or Buu were slain. So Zamasu isn't wrong when he says that evil should be destroyed... it's not like Goku and co. allowed Cell to exist just because "there must be balance". Zamasu's only mistake was identifying that evil with mortals, but he's not wrong when he argues that the Gods should take a more active role against evil. Imagine if the Supreme Kai could intervene in mortal affairs and just killed Frieza, how much suffering would be avoided?

Regardless, this is a very underrated moment and uncharacteristically deep for a Dragon Ball villain.

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