The Two Most Important Characters.

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Grimlock
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The Two Most Important Characters.

Post by Grimlock » Wed May 24, 2023 1:55 am

I want you to think really long, and I want you to think really hard (that's what she said!) about who you think are the two most important characters. The ones that would truly make or break the entirety (continuity, you can approach this from an in-universe perspective too) of Dragon Ball. Not a Top 3 because that's cliche and would be easier to narrow down to, this is a Top 2. Pick wisely.

Well, let's get that out of the way already, from an out-universe perspective, I guess it's obvious that one of the characters would be Goku, as he's the protagonist and arguably "the face" of the Dragon Ball franchise, so I think the fun part would be learning who people would pick as the other one. Guess I'll reveal mine as example:

In-universe: Bardock & Bulma.

• Thanks to Dragon Ball Super, this man has undoubtedly been elevated to an important figure. He is the one who decided to send Goku to Earth, and he decided to spare a mother and child. You take that away, you break Dragon Ball completely.

• As for Bulma, I think it's self-explanatory. If she hadn't found Goku, life would not uh... find a way.

Out-universe: Goku & Shenlong.

• Obvious reasons.

• As for Shenlong, I guess you can't market Dragon Ball if you don't use recognizable characters. That would break Dragon Ball marketability-wise. I mean, who the hell is Uub if he suddenly gets a big spotlight in a box/cover art for a game or a movie to be released tomorrow, right?

I'm sure there are arguments to be made for characters such as Vegeta, Bulma, Gohan, elder Gohan, Piccolo, maybe even Chi-Chi. So let us know your choices. :)
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Re: The Two Most Important Characters.

Post by Xeogran » Wed May 24, 2023 4:26 am

Zeno and Zalama, without the former there wouldn't be Universes to begin with (unless they'll one day say he didn't make them), and without the latter there wouldn't be DBs at all, meaning no Goku and Bulma meeting. Even if they would still exist, they wouldn't come across each other.

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Re: The Two Most Important Characters.

Post by Yuji » Wed May 24, 2023 5:04 am

Goku and Bulma. It's how the story starts.

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Re: The Two Most Important Characters.

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed May 24, 2023 7:56 am

An argument could be made for Grandpa Gohan as he was the catalyst for Goku not completing his mission of killing all life on Earth, and for him becoming an orphaned country bumpkin. If Goku didn't fall into the ravine he wouldn't have had the sudden change of heart and would be too vicious and violent for even someone as kind as Gohan to care for, and he wouldn't have met Bulma, Yamcha or anyone else, or at least encountered them only to become friends with them.

We can also throw in the Nameless Namekian, as without him splitting in to Kami and Piccolo we wouldn't have had the Dragon Balls, which was a crutch for all the series heroes, the main driving force behind Pilaf's desire for world domination, the organisation of the Red Ribbon Army (which of course led to the Artifical Human and Cell arcs), Vegeta's desire for immortality, etc. The story would have collapsed in on itself if none of these events could occur.
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Re: The Two Most Important Characters.

Post by Grimlock » Wed May 24, 2023 12:56 pm

Xeogran wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 4:26 amZeno and Zalama, without the former there wouldn't be Universes to begin with (unless they'll one day say he didn't make them), and without the latter there wouldn't be DBs at all, meaning no Goku and Bulma meeting. Even if they would still exist, they wouldn't come across each other.
I think it's still kinda early to say Zeno created the Universes, they haven't confirmed nor denied it yet. But be that as it may, good picks. Zarama indeed plays an important role in the grand scheme. And he still is an unseen figure... Hopefully that changes someday.
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 7:56 amAn argument could be made for Grandpa Gohan as he was the catalyst for Goku not completing his mission of killing all life on Earth, and for him becoming an orphaned country bumpkin. If Goku didn't fall into the ravine he wouldn't have had the sudden change of heart and would be too vicious and violent for even someone as kind as Gohan to care for, and he wouldn't have met Bulma, Yamcha or anyone else, or at least encountered them only to become friends with them.
With Goku arriving on Earth a little bit older, I think Gohan's importance was relatively reduced. Yes, he's still responsible for making Goku bump his head, but him being older means he wouldn't have starved to death. At that age, pretty sure Goku would be able to find something to eat in the wild and fend for himself. Dragon Ball as we know it would be broken, but there would probably be a new Dragon Ball, who knows.

Also, as far as Goku knows (with or without memory), he wasn't on a mission. No one told him to kill everyone on Earth. I think Goku would have killed some humans, but not all of them.
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 7:56 amWe can also throw in the Nameless Namekian, as without him splitting in to Kami and Piccolo we wouldn't have had the Dragon Balls, which was a crutch for all the series heroes, the main driving force behind Pilaf's desire for world domination, the organisation of the Red Ribbon Army (which of course led to the Artifical Human and Cell arcs), Vegeta's desire for immortality, etc. The story would have collapsed in on itself if none of these events could occur.
Yep, pretty much the same thing with Zarama above. If we remove them from the play, there's simply no Dragon Ball at all. Pretty good choices too.

Let's see if we can get more arguments for other characters as well.
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Re: The Two Most Important Characters.

Post by Zephyr » Wed May 24, 2023 3:47 pm

Goku and Bulma, for pretty obvious reasons. Their meeting, and their first adventure together, sets everything else off.

The story follows Goku's actions. Goku is the one who gets in Pilaf's way to the point that the latter unseals Piccolo Daimao. Goku is the one who twists the Muten Roshi's arm into training him. Goku is the one who "kills" Tao Pai Pai, prompting the Crane School to crash the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai. Goku is the one who defeats the Red Ribbon Army, prompting Dr. Gero to create the artificial humans. Goku is the one who defeats Piccolo Daimao and his reincarnation/son. Goku is the one who defeats Freeza*. Goku is 50% responsible for the existence of the kid who defeats Cell. And without Goku, Majin Boo doesn't get revived. So much of the story is directly reactive to Goku's actions, it's almost a strange question to even ask.

*: Trunks is technically the one to kill him, but you know what I mean.

Sure, we can take a step back and argue that because Goku is as important as he is, other characters who helped put Goku in the position he was in when the first chapter started are even more important, but I don't really buy that. Yeah, Bardock sends Goku to Earth, but without Gine there to birth him Bardock wouldn't have sent anybody to Earth. And what about Freeza? If he wasn't planning to wipe out the Saiyans, would Goku have been sent to Earth? What about King Cold? Without him, there is no Freeza. And so on.

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Re: The Two Most Important Characters.

Post by BootyCheeksJohnson » Wed May 24, 2023 4:00 pm

Out of universe (because that's more interesting to me) Goku and Bulma. Without them there is no story. I guess an honorable mention to Shen Long since his existence is the catalyst for getting Bulma out in the wild in the first place.
I do want to point out that even as Bulma took more of a back seat to the fighters she never became irrelevant. Goku always came to her when he had a problem that required wit. He respected Bulma for her intellect and it showed that you can bring something to the table even if you can't punch hard or throw the biggest energy blast.

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Re: The Two Most Important Characters.

Post by BWri » Wed May 24, 2023 4:22 pm

I'm going to go with the two DB characters who have their own holidays. That's right! Goku and Piccolo whose holidays coincidentally fall on the same day.

Goku is rather self explanatory as the driving force behind the show is many respects but Piccolo through his connection with the titular DBs, to Goku, and to the evolution of the series warrants the spot of 2nd most important character.

Piccolo in all forms has created several templates for the franchise. He's created the big bad template as Daimou and as Jr. he created the "big fight" template that was basically copied beat for beat in the Goku vs Vegeta fight and aped in later fights.

Piccolo's connection to the series secondary protagonist Gohan shows him as the 2nd most venerated sifu of the show, behind Roshi, and his legacy continues with Pan. Piccs has been there in all versions of the series. I think Bulma is just behind him in terms of importance, but for me it's #1. Goku. #2. Piccolo/Nameless Namekian. #3. Bulma. I only put her at #3 because her importance was dialed down in a few parts of DBZ. Her strongest presence there was during the Artificial human arc until her resurgence in Super.

I think I want to put Roshi at #4 and I would consider those the Pillars of the show because everything connects to each of them in some way.
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Re: The Two Most Important Characters.

Post by Grimlock » Thu May 25, 2023 12:19 pm

Zephyr wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:47 pmSure, we can take a step back and argue that because Goku is as important as he is, other characters who helped put Goku in the position he was in when the first chapter started are even more important, but I don't really buy that. Yeah, Bardock sends Goku to Earth, but without Gine there to birth him Bardock wouldn't have sent anybody to Earth. And what about Freeza? If he wasn't planning to wipe out the Saiyans, would Goku have been sent to Earth? What about King Cold? Without him, there is no Freeza. And so on.
I see your point, that is why I prefer to see this through the lens of "choices". With the exception of Goku and Freeza battle that was "fated" to happen (Dragon Ball Minus ends with a note stating that, if I remember correctly), there's no destiny in Dragon Ball. There are only choices the characters make.

Gine giving birth to Goku is actually unrelated. It was Bardock's decision and his decision alone. For all the possibilities, he couldn't have cared at all and let Goku die/remain on the planet. Bardock wasn't fated to send anyone to another planet just because a partner gave him a son, you know?

It's the choices and certain circumstances that prevent this subject to be stretched like this and be more "grounded", for a lack of a better word.
BWri wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 4:22 pmPiccolo in all forms has created several templates for the franchise. He's created the big bad template as Daimou and as Jr. he created the "big fight" template that was basically copied beat for beat in the Goku vs Vegeta fight and aped in later fights.

Piccolo's connection to the series secondary protagonist Gohan shows him as the 2nd most venerated sifu of the show, behind Roshi, and his legacy continues with Pan. Piccs has been there in all versions of the series.
Yeah, Piccolo is always there to provide with some meaningful contribution however he can. No wonder I still get some "holy crap, Toei" vibe whenever I remember they dared to kill him permanently. Which is also curious because we would learn Namekuseijins have a long lifespan and he's supposed to live a lot as per Dragon Ball Online, meaning he'll be there to help as well. Maybe his strong presence alone, no matter the era, is of great importance.
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Re: The Two Most Important Characters.

Post by Y2_O3 » Fri May 26, 2023 12:07 pm

This is a peculiar matter.

In a narrative, story, or tale, apart from the protagonist and antagonist, there are usually 6 archetypes of characters:
  • Protector/Mentor/Window Character – The keeper of the hero’s moral compass.
  • Deflector/Bad example – Tries to pull the hero away with a different moral compass.
  • Believer – Believes and trusts in the hero just as the hero is.
  • Doubter – Challenges the hero’s methods.
  • Thinker – Reflects on hero’s course of action before taking own action.
  • Feeler – Intuitively shoots first and asks questions later.
No one thinks how important Yajirobe and Mr. Satan are. They only doubt the protagonist out of cowardice.
Vegeta is also unimportant. In the earlier parts, his presence was just an attempt to lead the protagonist astray.
Similarly, no one thinks that characters like Master Roshi, Bulma, and Krillin can be compared to Goku. They only believe in the protagonist, provide their protection or help. They are all functional characters that exist to help the protagonist complete the hero's journey.

I really like Piccolo in the Namek Arc and his battle against Freeza. He looked so cool when he appeared. Even though he was powerless against Freeza's transformation, he kept analyzing the situation and provided support to Goku at the most critical moment. I also like Kami-sama, who appears to have done nothing, but in reality he has been practicing superb management skills. However, I wouldn't compare them to the protagonist just because I like them so much. The dragonballs and Shenlong are not the most important things in the story—Majin Buu and Cell didn't fight for the dragonballs.

Bardock and Grandpa Gohan have even less of a role in the story. A smart author would never give too much space to such characters.
If they were important, then everyone in the early parts could be considered important because each of their actions would cause a butterfly effect in the future.
For example, Raditz was a successful character, but he was also an unimportant one. He successfully drew the protagonist into a bigger vortex, forcing Goku to leave his family and enter another world. Raditz fulfilled his mission excellently. But he was ultimately just a catalyst. His identity and ideas could be anything, he didn't have to be Goku's brother or even a Saiyan. It doesn't matter as long as our protagonist can embark on a new adventure.

A good story doesn't need too many "important" characters. 6 well-defined roles are enough, such as Alfred Pennyworth, Harvey Dent, James Gordon, Det. Anna Ramirez, Lucius Fox, and Rachel Dawes. Adding an outstanding protagonist and an impressive antagonist, that's enough to tell a good story. It has been this way since Star Wars.
If you want to tell a prequel story, then rearrange these 6(8) characters.
We can see many stories changing protagonists in sequels, gathering new partners and beginning their new adventures with characters like Gohan or Uub, and those works achieve success. As long as Gohan and Uub still believe that personal effort can make up for differences in talent and class divide, and as long as they dare to challenge their limits and continuously break through them, the legend of Dragon Ball can continue.

So, this is a peculiar question. There is only one protagonist (some works might split the protagonist into two characters). Why choose another character that is equally important?
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