Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by Scientist Fu » Fri May 05, 2023 2:13 pm

Kid Buu wrote: Fri May 05, 2023 9:51 am It doesn't make sense, but Kid Buu is stated to be the strongest Buu in the anime.

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Also I believe in the anime, Goku and Vegeta defeat phantom versions of Gohan and Gotenks who are believed to be at the same strength as their regular selves. :crazy:
Isn't this about his evilness, destructiveness? like he is the most evil from all Boos?

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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by Koitsukai » Fri May 05, 2023 3:11 pm

Kid Buu wrote: Fri May 05, 2023 9:51 am It doesn't make sense, but Kid Buu is stated to be the strongest Buu in the anime.

Image

Also I believe in the anime, Goku and Vegeta defeat phantom versions of Gohan and Gotenks who are believed to be at the same strength as their regular selves. :crazy:
Well, you have that one-liner of a filler episode vs the entire arc + one of the most prominent anime writers admitting Buuhan is the strongest Buu. It's easier to discard the former than the actual narrative, specially when not only Toriyama but Koyama, too, oppose that filler line.

Also, inside Buu' stomach, the guys were incredibly small, Buu tells them they cannot even damage one of his cells due to their current size, they cannot shoot their way out of Super Buu. So, if they were fighting real copies of Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks, as powerful as they actually were, then the hybrids would be weaker than just one Super Buu's cell... even though Ultimate Gohan was trashing every cell in Buu's body. If they had the power to beat their kids, they should've easily shoot their way out of Super Buu... and should've been strong enough to fight Super Buu and beat him.

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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Fri May 05, 2023 4:47 pm

Goku repeats how Kid Boo is the strongest one several times in their fight. I think the anime also replaces the "troublesome" in Kaioshin's line with "strongest".

Not that it matters though. It's filler. Since when do people have to take filler seriously?
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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by Civic » Fri May 05, 2023 10:34 pm

"Different level" doesn't have to refer to strength. Kid Buu fights unpredictably and maliciously with basically no consideration for his own safety. No other form of Buu is like that.

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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by theherodjl » Fri May 05, 2023 10:58 pm

Let's say Pure Boo was the strongest, what reason did he have to repeatedly hold back against Goku but decided to book it against Vegeta & Fat Boo? What sense does that make? Why hold back against the strongest guy but get more serious with the weaker opponents? Why even take the time to fight anyone and not just blow them all away with one shot like he did to various worlds across the universe???
Accepting a one-off line from the anime as irrefutable proof of Pure Boo being the strongest, against greater evidence from the manga & people affiliated with the anime production stating that he was not, is disingenuous and it creates a lot more questions than answers.
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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sat May 06, 2023 12:34 am

An anime Guide and the narrator also say Kid Buu is the strongest Buu in the anime. Filler also makes Goku and Vegeta much stronger than they should be. The anime looks like it didn't care what the stroy was saying.

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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat May 06, 2023 2:38 am

The anime just makes the whole thing so confusing. If it was Kid Buu>SSj3 then that SSj3 Goku would be strong enough to take on Buuhan by himself, but he had to find someone to fuse with to fight Super Buu.
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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by Kid Buu » Sat May 06, 2023 7:04 am

Goku also holds his own against Gotenks Buu in the anime.
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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by theherodjl » Sat May 06, 2023 10:52 am

Kid Buu wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 7:04 am Goku also holds his own against Gotenks Buu in the anime.
I took the time to watch it over, Goku didn't really hold his own. The best Goku managed was gaining a few seconds to charge up a Ki blast while Bootenks' back was turned and blast him some 40 feet away. Bootenks immediately demonstrated that he suffered no damage even with a barrage of additional blasts sent his way, getting into a trade of blows with Goku and clearly having the advantage without even going all out. Bootenks seemed ready to get more serious when his fusion time suddenly ran out, Goku then noting that Gohan could beat him now and powering back down to base. It's only in the English dub that then Goku states anything about "you don't expect to beat me like that?"
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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat May 06, 2023 6:07 pm

Kid Buu wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 7:04 am Goku also holds his own against Gotenks Buu in the anime.
For like 5 something seconds. Tenshinhan hold his own against Semi Perfect Cell, but I would not say that he is above the likes of Freeza.
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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sat May 06, 2023 10:36 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 6:07 pm
Kid Buu wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 7:04 am Goku also holds his own against Gotenks Buu in the anime.
For like 5 something seconds. Tenshinhan hold his own against Semi Perfect Cell, but I would not say that he is above the likes of Freeza.
Tien used a highly amped attack. Goku didn't.

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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by ClutchBangstrip » Sun May 07, 2023 6:45 pm

I coulda sworn anime or manga Kid Buu was basically a manifestation of the Grand Supreme Kai's Power. That would make him early Moro, at least. That's far beyond anything in Z.

Goku and Vegeta basically got lucky and killed Kid Buu before he could tap into the power. That's the only reason I can think of that makes sense. Considering Super Explicitly states Multiple Times that Kid Buu had the GSK's Power, while Fat Buu got the heart.They said it 1000x.

The only other thing I can think of is somewhere I can't remember, it was stated that Buu only got GSK's Power After he sealed Moro where he was greatly weakened and somehow Buu was stuck at that level. If that's not actually stated anywhere, I'm not sure how this is still a question being asked in 2023. Kid Buu should blow every other Z character outta the water by a Googlplex. Hell, they needed Everyone's power to beat him.

Admittedly, the franchise until recently did a horrible job of explaining the powers of Buu, but the Moro saga did a decent job of cleaning it up. There was a ton of evidence that Kid Buu Wasn't the strongest but the Powers That Be and the franchise as a whole always spoke like Kid Buu was. Like the haphazard writing just made a lot of mistakes that lead to people thinking Buuhan was the strongest form. And understandbly so, the writing was kinda bad.

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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by diraf78 » Thu May 11, 2023 2:45 pm

Kid Buu is probably the strongest version of Buu. The anime told it explicitly many Times.

As far as the manga is concerned, there are many elements which tend to prove it.

First, when Super Buu lost Fat Buu because of vegeta, Goku said that he was gaining power. He became Ultra Buu. At that moment, he continued to evolve and reach his original form, Kid Buu. Kibito Shin explained that Kid Buu was weakened by absorbing the Kaio Shins.

So : Kid Buu > Ultra Buu > Super Buu > Fat Buu

Then, with the Genkidama, we can see that Kid Buu > Gohan > Buucolo.

Indeed, when Gohan gave all his Ki, Goku and Vegeta said it was far to be enough to kill Kid Buu whereas Goku said Gohan could stomp Buucolo.

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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by Ashur » Wed May 17, 2023 4:19 pm

No because if that was the case then SSJ3 Goku would have been enough to defeat Super Buu Gohan Absorbed, as it is directly said he could defeat Kid Buu but just ran out of energy, meanwhile he runs away from Super Buu Gotenks to fuse with Gohan because he knows he can't beat him.

He also can't defeat normal Super Buu and tells Vegeta they have to do the fusion dance even after rescuing Piccolo, Gohan, Goten and Trunks from Buu's body.

Yet against Kid Buu Goku says he could win and we see them being relative in power during the fight, so yeah these are all canonical facts adapted from the manga that are still in the anime continuity, regardless of any weird narrator statements, this holds more water.

Also in the anime they even added a full scene of SSJ2 Goku beating him up showing they were relative in power even if Kid Buu was stronger than SSJ2 Goku, in the manga it goes straight to SSJ3 Goku vs Buu, so if anything the anime makes it seem like Kid Buu is the weakest Buu that Goku faced even compared to the evil Fat version.

People cite the Genki Dama thing, which is absurd because it is direclty said that the only reason it's not strong enough is because Goku is weakened and damaged, as soon as he regained his energy he obliterated Buu with it easily even without going full power himself.

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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by Kaboom » Thu May 18, 2023 3:21 pm

This whole thing amounts to far less of simply "Pure Boo is the strongest one in the anime," and more that he anime tried to say Pure Boo is strongest, but also leaves in a whole bunch of other stuff that doesn't let that actually be true, so it becomes a self-contradictory mess. You're left with "Schrödinger's Boo" who ends up being simultaneously the most powerful form and not the most powerful form at the same time.

Which is why, for most of the last 20+ years, the predominant common-sense solution has just been to stick to the manga version of the Majin Boo arc for "serious" power-scaling discussions.
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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by diraf78 » Thu May 18, 2023 6:31 pm

Ashur wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 4:19 pm No because if that was the case then SSJ3 Goku would have been enough to defeat Super Buu Gohan Absorbed, as it is directly said he could defeat Kid Buu but just ran out of energy, meanwhile he runs away from Super Buu Gotenks to fuse with Gohan because he knows he can't beat him.

He also can't defeat normal Super Buu and tells Vegeta they have to do the fusion dance even after rescuing Piccolo, Gohan, Goten and Trunks from Buu's body.

Yet against Kid Buu Goku says he could win and we see them being relative in power during the fight, so yeah these are all canonical facts adapted from the manga that are still in the anime continuity, regardless of any weird narrator statements, this holds more water.

Also in the anime they even added a full scene of SSJ2 Goku beating him up showing they were relative in power even if Kid Buu was stronger than SSJ2 Goku, in the manga it goes straight to SSJ3 Goku vs Buu, so if anything the anime makes it seem like Kid Buu is the weakest Buu that Goku faced even compared to the evil Fat version.

People cite the Genki Dama thing, which is absurd because it is direclty said that the only reason it's not strong enough is because Goku is weakened and damaged, as soon as he regained his energy he obliterated Buu with it easily even without going full power himself.
Goku clearly said he was unable to counter Kid Buu’s attack which destroyed the Earth, it means he was way weaker than him.

Otherwise, he would have tried his best in order to save his sons whereas he only tried to escape to save his Life.

During his fight against Kid Buu, Goku said he Will give his best, full power directly, from the beginning.

He launched a full power Kamehameha and then he said je was unable to weaken, Kid Buu was at the same powerlevel.

If he was around the same level as Kid Buu, he would have suceeded to make him weaker like he did it against Cell, but it was impossible for Goku at this moment.

In the same Time, kid Buu was dancing, he was making fun Of him.

Vegeta and Goku said that Goku could kill him if Goku concentrated his energy for 1 minute. It is the same situation as Piccolo VS Radditz. It was stated by scouters that piccolo was 3 times less powerful than Radditz but he killed him by concentrating his vital energy for almost 1 minute thanks to Goku.

Here, it’s the same situation, Vegeta want to gain some time for Goku concentrating all his vital energy like Piccolo earlier in the manga.

Goku was nowhere near Kid Buu level.

The Genkidama showed us that Gohan power was not enough to kill Buu, it’s said at the page 158 and 159 Of the tome 42. You can look by yourself.

And Goku let Gohan fight alone against Buucolo but for Kid Buu he said that he thought Vegeta wanted to bring Gohan AND Gotenks to help them against Kid Buu.

Why would he speak of Gohan AND Gotenks if Kid Buu is even weaker than Super Buu ?

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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by Ashur » Fri May 26, 2023 2:54 pm

diraf78 wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 6:31 pm
Ashur wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 4:19 pm No because if that was the case then SSJ3 Goku would have been enough to defeat Super Buu Gohan Absorbed, as it is directly said he could defeat Kid Buu but just ran out of energy, meanwhile he runs away from Super Buu Gotenks to fuse with Gohan because he knows he can't beat him.

He also can't defeat normal Super Buu and tells Vegeta they have to do the fusion dance even after rescuing Piccolo, Gohan, Goten and Trunks from Buu's body.

Yet against Kid Buu Goku says he could win and we see them being relative in power during the fight, so yeah these are all canonical facts adapted from the manga that are still in the anime continuity, regardless of any weird narrator statements, this holds more water.

Also in the anime they even added a full scene of SSJ2 Goku beating him up showing they were relative in power even if Kid Buu was stronger than SSJ2 Goku, in the manga it goes straight to SSJ3 Goku vs Buu, so if anything the anime makes it seem like Kid Buu is the weakest Buu that Goku faced even compared to the evil Fat version.

People cite the Genki Dama thing, which is absurd because it is direclty said that the only reason it's not strong enough is because Goku is weakened and damaged, as soon as he regained his energy he obliterated Buu with it easily even without going full power himself.
Goku clearly said he was unable to counter Kid Buu’s attack which destroyed the Earth, it means he was way weaker than him.

Otherwise, he would have tried his best in order to save his sons whereas he only tried to escape to save his Life.

During his fight against Kid Buu, Goku said he Will give his best, full power directly, from the beginning.

He launched a full power Kamehameha and then he said je was unable to weaken, Kid Buu was at the same powerlevel.

If he was around the same level as Kid Buu, he would have suceeded to make him weaker like he did it against Cell, but it was impossible for Goku at this moment.

In the same Time, kid Buu was dancing, he was making fun Of him.

Vegeta and Goku said that Goku could kill him if Goku concentrated his energy for 1 minute. It is the same situation as Piccolo VS Radditz. It was stated by scouters that piccolo was 3 times less powerful than Radditz but he killed him by concentrating his vital energy for almost 1 minute thanks to Goku.

Here, it’s the same situation, Vegeta want to gain some time for Goku concentrating all his vital energy like Piccolo earlier in the manga.

Goku was nowhere near Kid Buu level.

The Genkidama showed us that Gohan power was not enough to kill Buu, it’s said at the page 158 and 159 Of the tome 42. You can look by yourself.

And Goku let Gohan fight alone against Buucolo but for Kid Buu he said that he thought Vegeta wanted to bring Gohan AND Gotenks to help them against Kid Buu.

Why would he speak of Gohan AND Gotenks if Kid Buu is even weaker than Super Buu ?
All of those are less definitive than the shown evidence of how he does in the fight against Kid Buu vs how he does against Buutenks and Super Buu.

Goku was just SSJ1 when Kid Buu launched the attack he was unable to go SSJ3 in time to stop it.

It is false that he went 100% from the beginning in the anime, Buu and Goku begin trading blows with SSJ2 Goku being ahead of a less than 100% Kid Buu: https://youtu.be/5zmiHE0YgEU so there was a warmup which shows Goku having an advantage, which checks with his later remark, when the fight is serious, that if he was able to go 100% as SSJ3 he would win against a 100% Kid Buu.

He was unable to wear Buu down because Buu's broken regeneration made him unable to sustain damage unless the power disparity was vast (like against Vegetto or Gohan), while Goku kept growing tired.

Buu dancing and making fun of Goku for the tide turning in his favor at some point is not indicative of Buu being much stronger when it is shown that they are even in the fight with them trading blows equally: https://youtu.be/mL0QHwX90eE it is simply in his character to do so, to mock an opponent childishly once he starts to get the upper hand and the other's attacks can't kill him.

It is not the same as Piccolo vs Raditz, because Goku is not focusing on a special technique that severely amps him, but simply using his full SSJ3 power, that's what he's trying to achieve, and regardless of if it's via a Super Kamehameha, it still makes Goku and Kid Buu on the same league, as if with just concentration Goku can beat Buu then he's not massively above Goku like Gohan, Buuhan and Vegetto were, instead he's on a similar if not equal level, which Goku edges out with his most powerful technique.

The strategy is similar, but the situation is different.

The Genkidama was ineffective simply because the weilder was too weak to handle it, it shows it's potency depends on the user's state, he was so weak he couldn't even go SSJ1, but once he got his energy back he immediately stomped Buu with it in just SSJ1, Buu stood no chance there.

The power gap between a tired base Goku and SSJ1 Goku isn't bigger than the energy of the entire population of the Earth + Goku's friends (with Gohan, who is said to surpass Goku before), and the after life, so it's not all of those powers simply stacked on top of tired Goku, tired Goku's state directly affects the Genkidama's capacity, it's not about insufficient power.

On the Gohan and Gotenks argument, why would Goku come back to Earth to bring just one fighter when he can bring more? It simply makes more tactical sense to bring both even if one can deal with him, in fact Goku mentioning them as a solution is indicative of how they are above Buu and contradicts your earlier argument of the energy of the Genkidama not being enough.

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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by DBZ Expert » Sun May 28, 2023 9:07 am

Yes. Pure Boo > Enraged Gohan Boo in the Anime, and this Enraged Boo forced SSjin Vegetto to go all out. Goku states during his fight with Pure Boo that Pure Boo is stronger than he thought and that they should of beaten Boo when they were Vegetto insinuating that even Vegetto might lose to Pure Boo. He definitely didn't say it with the same confidence of killing Pure Boo in one blast like in the Manga.

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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sun May 28, 2023 3:56 pm

DBZ Expert wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 9:07 am Yes. Pure Boo > Enraged Gohan Boo in the Anime, and this Enraged Boo forced SSjin Vegetto to go all out. Goku states during his fight with Pure Boo that Pure Boo is stronger than he thought and that they should of beaten Boo when they were Vegetto insinuating that even Vegetto might lose to Pure Boo. He definitely didn't say it with the same confidence of killing Pure Boo in one blast like in the Manga.
Vegito didn't go all put on Enraged Buu he just out effort in.

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Re: Is anime Kid Buu stronger than Vegito?

Post by DBZ Expert » Mon May 29, 2023 1:31 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 3:56 pm
DBZ Expert wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 9:07 am Yes. Pure Boo > Enraged Gohan Boo in the Anime, and this Enraged Boo forced SSjin Vegetto to go all out. Goku states during his fight with Pure Boo that Pure Boo is stronger than he thought and that they should of beaten Boo when they were Vegetto insinuating that even Vegetto might lose to Pure Boo. He definitely didn't say it with the same confidence of killing Pure Boo in one blast like in the Manga.
Vegito didn't go all put on Enraged Buu he just out effort in.
This makes no sense.

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