"Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Scsigs » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:30 pm

Cold Skin wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 4:09 pm ^ It's probably to save on data space. As I stated before, those low-res cutscenes have been fully re-encoded for the current-gen to include the newest versions of landscapes. So since they made the extra effort to re-encode them all, they could have chosen to use a better resolution - and possibly a higher framerate - while they were at it and yet they didn't.

This would mean that it's their choice to keep the framerate and resolution at the lowest acceptable level, which I can only guess is to save on the space it takes in the data, avoiding to increase the game size by many Gbs.
I mean, the file size for the entire game, DLCs included, is almost 10GB less than the Xbox One version on Series X/S & the video files for the prerendered cutscenes are already rendered up to 4K. I don't see why they couldn't just clean them up because them running looking like they're a lower resolution or badly compressed leaves them looking bad. Like, I played the PS4 version off Kingdom Hearts: Melody of Memory last year & that version (& I have to assume the Xbox & PC versions) has the new prerendered cutscenes look like they're the badly-compressed versions from the Switch version for some reason with obvious macroblocking. These, though, for this game just look distractingly low resolution because there's really bad aliasing. I just don't understand how you can be a game dev & not wanna fix that problem when it comes about.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cold Skin » Fri Feb 10, 2023 10:30 am

^ This is even more perplexing if the videos are actually encoded as 4K, because my only guess for the low quality was the size file (4K videos can be extremely heavy when I check recordings from my PS5, with 25 minutes weighting 8 GBs or 40 minutes weighting 14 GBs). Maybe it's an EXTREMELY compressed form of 4K, which does look like incredibly lower resolution. I mean, the level of aliasing that appears on screen for these videos is through the roof! Maybe it's lower-res footage recorded in 4K, but then it's sort of a wasted opportunity, isn't it?

I mean, I expected two possibilities when hearing about the current-gen overhaul. Possibility N°1, they would just copy/paste the low-res compressed videos they already had on the previous gen, either out of laziness or saving time and resources, or because they had ditched the assets of those and only had the finished videos to work with (which happens more often than we'd think). In that case, landscapes would have suddenly reverted back to the old models for those scenes. Possibility N°2, they would actually do the extra effort to re-record all those videos for the new graphics and improve the encoding/resolution quality while they were at it.

But ultimately, neither happened, we have that sort of strange middle ground: they did go to all the extra effort to re-record all of those prerendered videos that use the in-game elements to update the landscapes and lighting and stuff so that it matches the real-time scenes, but somehow didn't care to improve on the display quality of those videos!

This seem all the more confusing to me since those videos using in-game models are likely meant to be seamless and blend in with the usual graphics, with most players being unable to really catch on the fact that a prerendered video has taken over for a specific scene. This is even probably why they went through the effort of re-recording them all.
But let me tell you, at least on the current gen, anyone is able to suddenly say in a second "what the hell is going on, suddenly there's aliasing all over my screen in that scene, it's like I'm playing on a small Switch screen being stretched to my TV screen!"

Surely it's a willing sacrifice (hence my guess of the size file being kept in check by low resolution or heavy compression, even when I agree that the game's file size - even with all the DLCs - is FAR from other current games and that they could add several dozens of GBs to it).
I mean, I can't imagine that, when testing that the implementation of those newly-recorded scenes worked fine, the devs went "yep, totally seamless, players will never be able to tell it goes to a prerendered scene at this moment, the illusion is perfect!" They've got to know what it looks like and they're like "it's the best we can do with those scenes, it will have to do in those circumstances".

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Scsigs » Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:07 am

Cold Skin wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 10:30 am
The thing for me is that, if Dimps can do very good-looking in-game cinematic cutscenes in Xenoverse 2 in 2016 on the Xbox One & PS4, then CC2 can do the same with Kakarot 2023. The main problem is not only resolution, but frame rate. Like, I'm only less than 2 hours into my replay of the main story & the cutscene with Vegeta & Nappa on that alien planet before they set course for Earth really stuck out as distractingly low res. And my thing is, I understand that it's only a few minutes at best, but it uses the in-game models & had a background produced for the planet, then had shots in space. Yet it all looked really aliased for no reason for the entire scene. Even in space. I'm like, could they not redo that in a higher resolution & make sure it doesn't look aliased?
And when it comes to frame rate as well, I don't necessarily mind cinematic cutscenes being capped at 30 because it's not gameplay, but when we exist in a time where games on consoles are now able to hit a good mix of higher resolutions & frame rates at the same time, I'd really think they'd be able to do that. I mean, Ghost of Tsushima had its pre-rendered cutscenes on PS4 converted to real time on PS5, which COULD allow them too run at a higher frame rate if they let them in the 60FPS mode, though it seems this was mainly to allow proper lipsync to the JP audio. A similar thing with Spider-Man 2018 where the PS5 remaster had all of the cutscenes in 60FPS for those modes because they were in-engine. I really son't understand how these cutscenes couldn't have been converted to in-engine. It'd cut down on file sizes too because they'd just be using assets that are already in the game's data. I doubt it's the engine too since Kingdom Hearts III had the majority of the cutscenes from the main game & DLCs in-engine & that was also made on UE4 & released a year before Kakarot was.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cold Skin » Sat Feb 11, 2023 3:02 pm

^ Some of those are meant to simply avoid a loading screen, even if loadings take only 5 seconds in the current-gen versions. You can see such a scene shows nothing that couldn't be handled in real time, but it was just to avoid the usual loading (notably a good number of times showing what's going on in God's sanctuary while the main action is taking place somewhere else). This is ironic because one of the episodes (the three-years gap in the Cell arc) is clearly not afraid of making the player go through loading after loading a dozen times.

Some other times, it seems to be because there are too many effects, dozens of people, unique animations, etc... (for the older versions, that is) A typical reason for not handling something in real time.

But yeah, with the current gen, I agree with you it should totally be able to handle it all in real time, with the resolution and framerate being kept. However, my blind guess is that they don't want to stray too far away from the way things were arranged and programmed originally: where there was a video trigger in the program, they leave it, they just change the video itself.
This would be to avoid any problems that the new data would bring if they had to bring the assets used in the cutscenes and all the programming of the various animations, etc... Much easier and safer to handle it all properly externally and just slip in the end result as a video just like it was in the original without the risk of creating conflicts of data and disruptances.

The snowball effect is hard to avoid in modern games' updates and happens frequently with all developers, requiring patches to fix problems that didn't even exist before the new content, due to many problems being triggered by the latest content added even when it's supposed to be completely unrelated.
So I bet the devs were like "let's not play with fire and keep the method that works fine and not modify too many things in the way the base game is coded". Just a wild guess though, I'm no expert...

On another matter, how annoying that it's impossible to replay the Beerus story (for the little there is...).
They've made it so that you can replay the Golden Freeza story (which is "A New Power Awakens - Part 2"), but it's totally impossible to go through Part 1 again with the current level to quickly go through the cutscenes of meeting Whis and Beerus, the progress of training, the Super Saiyan God ritual and the finisher against Beerus...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cold Skin » Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:25 pm

Surprisingly, the whole beginning of episode 5 of the Saiyans arc suffers from a constant, severe framerate drop in Quality mode, as if the console was struggling to keep up at all times. In Performance mode, this doesn't happen, there is no drop.

The constant drop only happens during cutscenes (exploration and battles are just fine) and will last until the fight against Nappa, being there no matter what is displayed on the screen, no matter what the camera shows. It will then disappear after the first fight against Nappa and only come back shortly when Chaozu has just exploded with the big pack of smoke.

Having replayed the whole game and DLCs in Quality mode, there is no other framerate drops that I've noticed throughout the game. The case of this episode 5 is - luckily - a one-time incident apparently.

It could be because the smoke effects (when Vegeta and Nappa have just blown up the city or when Chaozu has just exploded) and the presence of the Saibaimen (which are probably already there on the field before being shown and taken out of the loaded data once you fight Nappa) make for too many effects and character models to handle at the same time and render in 4K even for current-gen hardware.

This game is technically so ambitious and revolutionary that it pushes even current hardware to its limits! ...or much more likely, it simply isn't well-optimized in that specific part of this specific episode! 8)
Luckily, as I said, the rest of the game is safe from such framerate drops even in Quality mode, and Framerate mode shows no visible drop at any point even in what seems to be the hardest scene to handle for the console in the whole game.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cold Skin » Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:56 pm

I don't want to jump to conclusions - although this was to be expected - but the first pictures of the next DLC seem to confirm that ground battles will happen. You can clearly see Goku running sideways to dodge an attack as opposed to moving sideways in the air.

This may seem like it was guaranteed given the arc explored, but it's still good to have the first visual proofs that fighting on the ground has been created, though it will surely only happen in this DLC - and possibly other upcoming DLCs.

You can't hope for it to be included in the base game since the way they really put the DLC content totally apart of the base game is precisely so that they don't have to touch up anything about the base game when adding new DLC arcs.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mr Baggins » Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:28 pm

Man, those screenshots look so damn good. I just wish the colors were closer to the manga's colors, but eh, I'll take what I can get.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:56 am

I really wonder about how they will handle the battles.
Did they do a revamp and modified it for ground combat, hence it will be completely different experience to play this DLC?
Or is it just story screenshots and the battle will be the classic jump in the air, transition and here we go in air and everybody learned how to fly before the tournament?

Can't wait! Haven't finished the Bardock story yet. I have reached the DBZ fatigue and altough people report that it is actually great recreation of the TV Special, there is nothing new like in Trunks story and I am sure how this story ends.
But 23rd Budokai is different matter. Usually part of old games like on SNES when DBZ was still quite fresh or in the rare release of DB Kai game on DS, this portion is always left out from both the Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z stories, stranded in the middle.

Again, my biggest wish is to get the EOZ story part as the last DLC and that will send Kakarot for a proper send off and create the ultimate DBZ story oriented game that I will likely revisit sometime in future instead of going through tedious rewatch of the whole anime saga.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bardock God of Time » Fri Apr 14, 2023 12:57 pm

I'm thinking about future DLC Season Packs

Dragon Ball GT:

DLC 1: Black Star Dragon Ball Hunt + Baby (Playable GT Goku, Pan & GT Trunks, SSJ4 Goku)

DLC 2: Super 17

DLC 3: Shadow Dragon (SSJ4 Vegeta, SSJ4 Gogeta)

Dragon Ball Super:

DLC 1: Universe 6 (SSJB Kaioken Goku)

DLC 2: Goku Black (SSJ Rage Future Trunks, SSB Vegito)

DLC 3: Tournament of Power (Playable 17, Frieza, 18, UI Omen Goku, UI Goku, SSB Evolution Vegeta)

Original Dragon Ball:

DLC 1: Emperor Pilaf Saga to 21st Tenkaichi Budokai (Playable Kid Goku, Master Roshi and Playable Kid Krillin)

DLC 2: Red Ribbon Saga to Fortuneteller Baba Saga (Playable Yamcha)

DLC 3: Tien Saga to King Piccolo Saga

That's just the tip of the Iceberg for Kakarot DLC passes, so much they can do

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sangofe » Sat Apr 15, 2023 9:31 am

Bardock God of Time wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 12:57 pm I'm thinking about future DLC Season Packs

Dragon Ball GT:

DLC 1: Black Star Dragon Ball Hunt + Baby (Playable GT Goku, Pan & GT Trunks, SSJ4 Goku)

DLC 2: Super 17

DLC 3: Shadow Dragon (SSJ4 Vegeta, SSJ4 Gogeta)

Dragon Ball Super:

DLC 1: Universe 6 (SSJB Kaioken Goku)

DLC 2: Goku Black (SSJ Rage Future Trunks, SSB Vegito)

DLC 3: Tournament of Power (Playable 17, Frieza, 18, UI Omen Goku, UI Goku, SSB Evolution Vegeta)

Original Dragon Ball:

DLC 1: Emperor Pilaf Saga to 21st Tenkaichi Budokai (Playable Kid Goku, Master Roshi and Playable Kid Krillin)

DLC 2: Red Ribbon Saga to Fortuneteller Baba Saga (Playable Yamcha)

DLC 3: Tien Saga to King Piccolo Saga

That's just the tip of the Iceberg for Kakarot DLC passes, so much they can do
Would they rather do a sequel and call it "Dragon Ball: Kakkarot"?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sat Apr 15, 2023 5:04 pm

sangofe wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 9:31 am
Bardock God of Time wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 12:57 pm I'm thinking about future DLC Season Packs

Dragon Ball GT:

DLC 1: Black Star Dragon Ball Hunt + Baby (Playable GT Goku, Pan & GT Trunks, SSJ4 Goku)

DLC 2: Super 17

DLC 3: Shadow Dragon (SSJ4 Vegeta, SSJ4 Gogeta)

Dragon Ball Super:

DLC 1: Universe 6 (SSJB Kaioken Goku)

DLC 2: Goku Black (SSJ Rage Future Trunks, SSB Vegito)

DLC 3: Tournament of Power (Playable 17, Frieza, 18, UI Omen Goku, UI Goku, SSB Evolution Vegeta)

Original Dragon Ball:

DLC 1: Emperor Pilaf Saga to 21st Tenkaichi Budokai (Playable Kid Goku, Master Roshi and Playable Kid Krillin)

DLC 2: Red Ribbon Saga to Fortuneteller Baba Saga (Playable Yamcha)

DLC 3: Tien Saga to King Piccolo Saga

That's just the tip of the Iceberg for Kakarot DLC passes, so much they can do
Would they rather do a sequel and call it "Dragon Ball: Kakkarot"?
A game titled Kakarot should only be Z and up technically since that's where Kakarot started.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Scsigs » Sat Apr 15, 2023 8:38 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 5:04 pm
sangofe wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 9:31 am Would they rather do a sequel and call it "Dragon Ball: Kakkarot"?
A game titled Kakarot should only be Z and up technically since that's where Kakarot started.
So, a prequel titled Dragon Ball: Son Goku. I'd actually love that.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sangofe » Sun Apr 16, 2023 12:53 am

miguelnuva1 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 5:04 pm
sangofe wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 9:31 am
Bardock God of Time wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 12:57 pm I'm thinking about future DLC Season Packs

Dragon Ball GT:

DLC 1: Black Star Dragon Ball Hunt + Baby (Playable GT Goku, Pan & GT Trunks, SSJ4 Goku)

DLC 2: Super 17

DLC 3: Shadow Dragon (SSJ4 Vegeta, SSJ4 Gogeta)

Dragon Ball Super:

DLC 1: Universe 6 (SSJB Kaioken Goku)

DLC 2: Goku Black (SSJ Rage Future Trunks, SSB Vegito)

DLC 3: Tournament of Power (Playable 17, Frieza, 18, UI Omen Goku, UI Goku, SSB Evolution Vegeta)

Original Dragon Ball:

DLC 1: Emperor Pilaf Saga to 21st Tenkaichi Budokai (Playable Kid Goku, Master Roshi and Playable Kid Krillin)

DLC 2: Red Ribbon Saga to Fortuneteller Baba Saga (Playable Yamcha)

DLC 3: Tien Saga to King Piccolo Saga

That's just the tip of the Iceberg for Kakarot DLC passes, so much they can do
Would they rather do a sequel and call it "Dragon Ball: Kakkarot"?
A game titled Kakarot should only be Z and up technically since that's where Kakarot started.
By your logic there can't be OG content then...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:04 am

sangofe wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 12:53 am
miguelnuva1 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 5:04 pm
sangofe wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 9:31 am

Would they rather do a sequel and call it "Dragon Ball: Kakkarot"?
A game titled Kakarot should only be Z and up technically since that's where Kakarot started.
By your logic there can't be OG content then...
There shouldn't be. 23rd budokai is cool to have but it is DLC not a entire game. Why would you title a game Kakarot when Kakarot is not in it?

It would be like making a Star Wars game called Vader and it only covers aotc, the clone wars and RotS.

The Kakarot plot line starts of DBZ I would prefer a DB game being called Goku.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:53 am

Do we have some ideas or rumors when will be the next DLC released?
I guess I have heard about summer?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by miguelnuva1 » Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:59 pm

MCDaveG wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:53 am Do we have some ideas or rumors when will be the next DLC released?
I guess I have heard about summer?
Anyone's guess. As surprising as the DLC has been they could do Hero's legacy next for all we know.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Scsigs » Sun Apr 30, 2023 7:00 pm

So, been playing the Series X port of the game. Gonna state my opinions on things that some have mentioned in this thread already. I also only just got done with the Namek stuff on a replay, so this isn't a full thoughts on the whole game or the DLCs yet.

Pros:
The updated graphics are really pretty. Mainly the new environmental textures & colors.
The 60FPS mode is really great. I love the smoothness of the gameplay at above 30.
Load times are significantly improved from the 8th gen version of the game.

Cons:
Pre-rendered cutscenes that use the in-engine assets weren't re-rendered at a higher resolution for some reason. Digital Foundry said they were at 1080p, but they're HORRIBLY aliased to fuck & I don't understand how they either didn't rerender them at a higher resolution and add anti-aliasing to them, or convert them to realtime cutscenes. The majority of these cutscenes don't have anything that the non-prerendered ones don't or can't handle. Now, the prerendered cinematic cutscenes that use the cutscene models & environments look good & have anti-aliasing, so I honestly don't understand why the other ones don't. The bad part about this is that, for some reason, environmental textures like grass take half a second to load in, which is weird for a pre-rendered FMV.
The game also has in-engine cutscenes that are clearly running in realtime where the framerate is cut back to 30 for some reason. I assume this was an oversight by the devs.
Those 2 really only matter if you're really noticing the resolution & framerate in games as you play them, so if you don't, you may have a better time. It really messes with a game's aesthetic for shit to be set up like this.
The game also has a tendency to change frame rates with certain animations during combat. When an enemy has the camera zoom in on them when they do a super attack, the game temporarily slows down the frame rate to 30 for some reason. This is strange since I assume the game wouldn't have any issues playing them at 60, so I don't understand this at all.
They didn't update Goku's head on his character model. I don't know why, but the way the character designer did Goku's (&, thus, Goten's) head in this game redesigned it in a way that makes him look off model. It mainly has to do with his hair & face in his base form, as the other forms for him are fine. I'd love it if they fixed that, but I don't think they will because they would've by now.
The game has a problem with things clipping through others in cutscenes. Not all the time, but it's noticeable when it happens.

With everything else, it's the exact same game otherwise. I enjoy the game enough, but it's still Kakarot. If you weren't interested in it before, this version won't change your mind, I feel. The game also benefits from being based on the version of the game from 2021 after the Trunks DLC came out, which has all of the sub stories, DLCs, updates, & everything baked into the game from the jump, so there's that.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Scsigs » Wed May 17, 2023 1:25 am

Scsigs wrote: Sun Apr 30, 2023 7:00 pm
So, update to this. I finally beat the main game again & finished the Battle of Gods portion of the A New Power Awakens DLC. Thoughts.

REALLY disappointed they didn't add the Vegeta Final Flash & Trunks VS Perfect Cell moments into the base game. I have no idea why they didn't add them in when they did the History of Trunks DLC & the fact that they didn't add them in for the next gen version is just a very wasted opportunity. The other 3 arcs from Z they put in the game have all of the important & best moments adapted into the game & the fact that those moments are missing is really weird & continue to confound me.

The rest of the game is about as I remember it from 3 years ago, only with better graphics & a 60FPS mode now.

The first DLC, I didn't remember as much as the main game or the Trunks DLC story. I was never really a fan of how little content it offered back in 2020. Rather than adapting the BOG story, it just operates on the assumption you've either seen the movie, or watched the Super arc adapting it. While I like that they had the DLC be an excuse to be able to power grind the characters to 250 rather than grind the regular way, it's really disappointing that they didn't add more than the training, the Super Saiyan God transformation, fights with Beerus, & the 2 substories as content in it. The training with Whis also becomes just boring after a while. If you get Goku or Vegeta to 250, unlock SS God, then unlock their biggest beam moves (God Kamehameha & God Heat Flash), you can get it done in a short amount of time. I personally ground the waters that allow you to power grind the characters with Vegeta doing Whis' hardest training, unlocked Auto SSG, got God Heat Flash to level 3, & I can beat him in 20 seconds with it by spamming it, which isn't that bad, but becomes just repetitive after a while. It has the same problem as the Limit Cut & Secret Episodes of the KH3 Re:Mind DLC, only without the earlier Re:Mind story portion to satiate those that like the story content of the game.

Also, does anyone know how to get more D Medals in the post game, or does doing the story portion of the Resurrection F DLC get you more? I still have super moves to unlock with Piccolo & Future Trunks & can't easily get more. Unless I can get them by replaying the story at all? I just hate not having everyone maxed out with their moves.

I'll update again when I replay the next 2 DLCs.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Wed May 17, 2023 4:15 am

From DBS Hype on twitter, V-Jump scan of the new DLC:

I am looking forward so much for this DLC and I hope that with some proper release date, they will drop at least a hint of the last one.
This arc holds a huge nostalgia for me, as I was ignoring Dragon Ball for like a year, running in block before Digimon that I watched,
but I did tuned in after school a bit before to see this fight and Piccolo blowing up the island and thought, well, this might be interesting!
Even tho to finally convince me to go back, I had to see runs of Buu arc on different channel and it was Goku vs Majin Vegeta that made me the fan forever. 23 frickin' years ago!

To me, Dragon Ball is always the manga, both the DB and Z, one series and it always pains me to see the two separated and most often, The 23rd Budokai rarely adapted... With Goku's image training and monologue with Piccolo at the beginning of the game, I thought darn, this should have been in. Better late than never.

The experience of watching the shows chronologically is for me completely different, so I wonder sometimes, how did the fans in US perceived the Goku and Piccolo relationship while starting with Z? Did it made sense, wasn't there feeling of something missing?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Neon Z » Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:56 pm

I actually bought Kakarot just due to this 23rd Budokai DLC and its first confirmed details (like playable Tenshinhan). Although I guess now I'm waiting to see if he will also be playable in the main game to decide whether I start playing the main story now or wait for the DLC release.

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