What if the SOCIAL MEDIA had existed back during the Buu Saga?

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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Jun 20, 2024 8:21 pm

The world wide web has been around since 1989. By the Buu saga started, it's been around for half decade. It's not as mainstream compare to the 2000s-2020s, or even the later half of the 90s. But, it still exist.
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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by tonysoprano300 » Thu Jun 20, 2024 11:58 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 8:15 pm
tonysoprano300 wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 7:55 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 7:46 pm

Doesn't matter. Kaioshin was stronger than both Frieza and Perfect Cell. I'm not saying he would have helped the Earth, but King Kai could have at least mentioned him. "Oh hey, there's this super strong guy who is also my manager, maybe I could petition him for help"

You people constantly complain about the """plot hole"" (I use the term very loosely) that Jiren and co. were nowhere to be seen in Future Trunks timeline. So I'm just going to say that it's also a plot hole that Kaioshin was never mentioned at any point prior to the Buu saga. :)
He wasn’t stronger than Cell, he was terrified of Dabura remember?

Also i don’t understand this energy lol, i have criticized the hell out of the Buu and Cell arcs
Simple, because it would be hilarious to see the tune changing if the Buu saga was somehow an arc of Super. There are far more similarities between the Buu saga and Super than people would like to admit.

Actually I'm rather glad for this, since the Buu saga is my favourite saga of Dragon Ball Z. It has just the right balance of comedy, humour, and dread/high stakes. Just like Super does.

I simply believe that the Buu saga would get criticized way more if it didn't benefit from nostalgia. Look at all the people who complained on Twitter that Goku threw a senzu bean at Moro: do you really think Twitter wouldn't massacre Goku and Vegeta for breaking their Potara earrings right before the final battle for survival?
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug I won’t deny that, maybe I've interacted in different spaces for the last 18 years or so but my impression was that the Buu arc was very divisive and most western DB fans think Freeza&Cell are the pinnacle of DB.

But yes, Buu arc certainly planted the seeds that led to Super

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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by Adamant » Fri Jun 21, 2024 2:36 am

...but it did?
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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Fri Jun 21, 2024 4:03 am

I think Cure Dragon 255's point is what if the Internet, as we know it today with a million social media apps and it being easily accessible for everyone, existed back then.

SupremeKai25's example perfectly illustrates the now stereotypical Internet response that things like The Last Jedi and the final season of Game of Thrones helped popularize, which was only really a phenomenon of the 2010s, helped no doubt by the oversaturation of social media apps and everyone suddenly becoming a critic. The Usenet groups of the 90s were much more niche by comparison.
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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by super michael » Fri Jun 21, 2024 5:06 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2024 4:03 am I think Cure Dragon 255's point is what if the Internet, as we know it today with a million social media apps and it being easily accessible for everyone, existed back then.
In the past there was only dial-up, which was really slow internet which cost money per minute usage. People couldn't use the telephone line, if someone was using the internet.
People couldn't use the internet, if someone was using the telephone.

I remember in the past PC didn't even have the hardware to connect to the internet.

I don't believe DBZ Buu Saga and chapter would get as much complain as DBS. In DBZ there was normally reason behind their actions, while in DBS there are no reason for what happens in it.

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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Jun 21, 2024 5:17 am

OP isn't saying that internet didn't exist back then, the point is that the rabid internet audiences didn't exist back then.

Did people live react and scrutinize every tiny detail on Twitter or Reddit? Did people get rabid as soon as they read the leaks? (did leaks even exist?) Nope.

What I find hilarious is how modern audiences exploded when Goku threw a Senzu bean at Moro... I wonder, how would Twitter react to Goku throwing a Senzu bean at Cell AND watching his son get beat-up? :o

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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Fri Jun 21, 2024 5:22 am

super michael wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2024 5:06 am
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2024 4:03 am I think Cure Dragon 255's point is what if the Internet, as we know it today with a million social media apps and it being easily accessible for everyone, existed back then.
In the past there was only dial-up, which was really slow internet which cost money per minute usage. People couldn't use the telephone line, if someone was using the internet.
People couldn't use the internet, if someone was using the telephone.

I remember in the past PC didn't even have the hardware to connect to the internet.

I don't believe DBZ Buu Saga and chapter would get as much complain as DBS. In DBZ there was normally reason behind their actions, while in DBS there are no reason for what happens in it.
Oh I'm no Zoomer who grew up on smartphones (actually didn't get my first mobile phone until I was nearly 18 and it was a good few years after that I got my first phone that could connect to the Internet) I remember dial-up well, as shit as it would be by today's standards my family were lucky to have it in 1999 because not everyone I knew at the time did. Its easy to take the internet for granted nowadays because its in everyone's fingertips and we see instant reactions to everything from around the world, this wasn't the case in the mid-90s.

Many territories like the English-speaking countries, Germany, Italy and several others didn't even get the Buu saga until nearly a decade after Japan did, and sure fans had seen it through tape trading, and I know Usenet groups existed, but make no mistake the Internet at that time wasn't like it is today where everyone was keeping up with Super and watching illegal streams as it aired on Fuji TV and there weren't as many avenues like Twitter, Reddit, etc for fans to vent their frustrations minutes after those episodes first premiered anywhere.
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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Fri Jun 21, 2024 1:39 pm

No one in this thread was any harsh at all but I HAVE to thank every poster who defended me and pointed out what I was going for with the thread. I love you guys!
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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Jun 21, 2024 2:16 pm

I don't know, I don't think it's the internet but the age group doing the bashing.
Even with the forum or twitter going on back then, I would've been like 11 or 12 yo at most, and would be going nuts that there are so many powerful new people, and new forms, and more blond people around but Goku is still the man, and this Buu guy is so strong and funny... if Goku is still bashing skulls, then it's definitely my Goku, instead of the cynical take we all have now that we're much older and expect so much more, from a storytelling POV, than enemy goes boom.
They are doing this to sell more toys? great, I'll get my mom to buy them for me, I was dying to expand my collection!

I mean, sure, if the Buu arc came out nowadays, the older fandom would destroy it, but even if there was twitter in 1999, DB's audience was mostly kids, not many grown ups were hardcore fans, and there weren't many 9 year old snobs that would look down on FUCKIN SUPER SAIYAN FUSION, at least I never met any.

TL;DR: from personal experience, back then I didn't encounter many "DB has become shit because this or that takes", those takes I've encountered many years later, after people learned a little more about narrative and stuff.

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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by Yuli Ban » Sat Jun 22, 2024 3:24 am

Ah if we're talking about "if the CURRENT internet that's been in place since ~2015 or so was around when the Buu arc was on TV", then yeah that changes things compared to "if the internet existed at all"

Even then, there's variables like "contemporary internet in 1993-1996 when the arc first was released" or "2001-2003 when Toonami Ball Z was airing" or "what if it came out TODAY or roughly today but DB somehow still had the same impact beforehand" or whatnot

Just assuming the modern social media/meme-focused/streaming/Chads of /a/reaction-video internet was a thing when FUNi Ball Z was at its peak, I can absolutely imagine there being
• Intense disappointment at how Gohan got weaker, with massive threads trying to justify it
• Whether or not Goten was a suitable replacement for Goku
• People getting angry at Kid Trunks not being Future Trunks the same way people get angry at Successful Family Man Nerdhan not being the same Gohan who grew up seeing his world collapse/get slaughtered around him
• Remember how much people seethed about Caulifla going Super Saiyan? Considering how much people have despised how easy Goten and Trunks going Super Saiyan was for decades now, I can bet that there'd be immense seething about these two pipsqueaks getting it so easily, probably some memes about the "Super Saiyan bargain sale" line, maybe some kvetching about Dragon Ball becoming self-aware about its flaws but not actually addressing those flaws
• The reveal that 18 could have babies and that Krillin of all characters actually hooked up with her..... I have some thoughts about how people would react
• Anger at Vegeta's pride causing all this havoc. Actually I bet that if the modern internet ecosystem existed back then, the "Final Atonement" scenes would not have been anywhere near as well-loved as they are now because people would be sharing their seethe about him doing the same thing he did in the Cell arc but even worse. The final scene might be touching, but there would probably not be anywhere near as much poignancy about it when the internet's keeping all those dead bodies and the petty reason behind them fresh on everyone's minds
• Vegeta's turn might also be shocking to some just because every Z villain-turned-good had otherwise remained good, so maybe there'd be some debates and what ifs speculations about if this arc is going to actually be the "Vegeta Saga Part 2" and thus hour-long speculative videos and extensive threads about just how that could play out
• Intense theorizing about the Supreme Kai. His introduction would probably be the source of so many DBZtubers theorizing, breaking down each frame, wondering if "Supreme Kai" is actually a ruse and he's secretly the new villain, just how strong he is, justifying that he must be far beyond Super Perfect Cell if he's able to cause this much of a blood pressure spike in Piccolo, and so on
• The Spopovich vs Videl beatdown, would probably have some different reactions in different places to say the least
• On that note, there'd be theorizing about what the M mark means on Spopovich and Yamu's heads and when it's clear they're artificially stronger, that would get the fan theories going about whether that means someone like Vegeta or Piccolo would try to find a way to get that mark's boost for themselves or if anyone could have the mark
• "What if Goten will get the M mark and be the big villain to cast him as the temperamental opposite of Kid Goku? Is this saga going to be about Goku's evil son?" Because it's always going to be Goten
• When it's clear what Dabura and Babidi are and that the Kaios are who they say they are, I can imagine a LOT of people celebrating "Dragon Ball returning to its mystical martial artist roots of having demons and gods rather than aliens and androids"
• INTENSE speculation about what Majin Buu was going to look like. You can expect 100% that DBZtubers, artists like Salvamakoto and Fellipart and others would make their guesses, almost certainly hilariously missing the mark or coming up with designs that are unironically interesting
• Likewise, befuddlement and likely disappointment that "Majin Buu is some pink cartoony fatass? DROPPED. Toriyama has FALLEN OFF. DBZ IS DEAD."
• Also maybe some frustration and debate about Goku and Vegeta also having Super Saiyan 2. On that note, the internet runs wild with Super Saiyan 2 and 3 (and some might wonder if the "grading scale" is getting too convoluted since "we already had a Super Saiyan 2, it was Super Vegeta").
• Wondering if Videl was going to actually become a Z Fighter; inevitably you'd get certain types saying "DBZ has gone woke!"
• Building off that, Videl's continued lack of participation in the fight would reflect just how much the arc was being written by the seat of Toriyama's pants and there's not any good way to predict what was going to happen next, even late into the arc (I'm fairly sure no one during the Vegetto vs Buuhan fight thought that the actual final battle was going to take place between Goku and a child version of Buu on the kaioshin planet), so if nothing else, it would be an intensely wild ride to the bitter end of outrageous speculation and the most fanficcy theories we've ever seen ("Goku will absorb Buu! Dabura will return and lead the armies of Hell to take over the universe! Jesus Christ will come down from Heaven to stop Buu and get absorbed!")
• Debates about whether Sean Schemmel and crew had improved from the early Funi dub vs Masako Nozawa being the best or a granny would be pretty widespread if we're talking 2002 or 2003 internet

I could go on and on.
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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Jun 22, 2024 8:23 am

Yuli Ban wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 3:24 am
• Remember how much people seethed about Caulifla going Super Saiyan? Considering how much people have despised how easy Goten and Trunks going Super Saiyan was for decades now, I can bet that there'd be immense seething about these two pipsqueaks getting it so easily, probably some memes about the "Super Saiyan bargain sale" line, maybe some kvetching about Dragon Ball becoming self-aware about its flaws but not actually addressing those flaws
I dunno, not to be that guy, but I feel misogyny fuels a lot of hatred toward Caulifa going Super Saiyan so easy.

• The reveal that 18 could have babies and that Krillin of all characters actually hooked up with her..... I have some thoughts about how people would react
Cue people asking how that's possible as if the show didn't have Krillin explain it. And debates if it's a retcon or not because the Funimation dub made it sound like 17 and 18 were 100 percent mechanical during the Cell saga.

Also probably some threads about how it would be more realistic for a hot babe like 18 to hook up with Future Trunks or Vegeta because Krillin is a "beta male simp"
• Intense theorizing about the Supreme Kai. His introduction would probably be the source of so many DBZtubers theorizing, breaking down each frame, wondering if "Supreme Kai" is actually a ruse and he's secretly the new villain, just how strong he is, justifying that he must be far beyond Super Perfect Cell if he's able to cause this much of a blood pressure spike in Piccolo, and so on
And lots of "Why didn't Supreme Kai stop Frieza and King Cold?" threads

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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:18 am

I don't think the reaction to Goten and Trunks being Super Saiyans would be as bad as the reaction to Caulifla and Kale. MasenkoHA is right, the misogyny is the real kicker there.

They would inevitably complain about Videl being antagonistic towards male characters, though.
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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by super michael » Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:02 am

JulieYBM wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:18 am I don't think the reaction to Goten and Trunks being Super Saiyans would be as bad as the reaction to Caulifla and Kale. MasenkoHA is right, the misogyny is the real kicker there.

They would inevitably complain about Videl being antagonistic towards male characters, though.
Goten and Trunks were born from parent that had SSJ unlock, while Caulifla and Kale were not.
Goten and Trunks has both trained with their family, in Trunks case in the Gravity Chamers. Later on they both trained in the ROSAT.
Caulifla and Kale has never been shown to train anywhere as hard as Goten and Trunks.

Bra is born from parent that has SSB unlocked, while Pan is born from parent that has SSJ2 and Ultimate Form unlocked.

I can imagine Videl acting like Vegeta in the Saiyan and Cell Saga, that wouldn't make Videl look good.
If DBZ Videl acts like DBS Chi Chi, then that would be 100% bad.

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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:08 am

super michael wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:02 am
JulieYBM wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:18 am I don't think the reaction to Goten and Trunks being Super Saiyans would be as bad as the reaction to Caulifla and Kale. MasenkoHA is right, the misogyny is the real kicker there.

They would inevitably complain about Videl being antagonistic towards male characters, though.
Goten and Trunks were born from parent that had SSJ unlock, while Caulifla and Kale were not.
Goten and Trunks has both trained with their family, in Trunks case in the Gravity Chamers. Later on they both trained in the ROSAT.
Caulifla and Kale has never been shown to train anywhere as hard as Goten and Trunks.

Bra is born from parent that has SSB unlocked, while Pan is born from parent that has SSJ2 and Ultimate Form unlocked.

I can imagine Videl acting like Vegeta in the Saiyan and Cell Saga, that wouldn't make Videl look good.
If DBZ Videl acts like DBS Chi Chi, then that would be 100% bad.
Goten and Trunks barely trained and had to be forced into it. Caulifla and Kale were experienced combatants who had a martial artist concept explained to them, demonstrated for them, and then employed those practices themselves to achieve their Super Saiyan forms. We get to see Kale and Caulifla's character arcs evolve over the course of the Tournament of Power as they both improve and fight for their own personal reasons, while Trunks and Goten had to be dragged into 99% of their training and goofed off the entire time—and the one time they did train intentionally, they then goofed off for the entire fight after their supposed serious training.

You're literally proving my point here.
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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by coola » Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:17 am

I'm even more interested in Cell Saga, Z Fighters refusing to find and kill Gero would already start discussion, but especially if all those behind the scenes stuff leaked, i can see #ReleaseToriyamaOriginalCyborgsSaga movement or something :)
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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by super michael » Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:24 am

JulieYBM wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:08 am
super michael wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:02 am
JulieYBM wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:18 am I don't think the reaction to Goten and Trunks being Super Saiyans would be as bad as the reaction to Caulifla and Kale. MasenkoHA is right, the misogyny is the real kicker there.

They would inevitably complain about Videl being antagonistic towards male characters, though.
Goten and Trunks were born from parent that had SSJ unlock, while Caulifla and Kale were not.
Goten and Trunks has both trained with their family, in Trunks case in the Gravity Chamers. Later on they both trained in the ROSAT.
Caulifla and Kale has never been shown to train anywhere as hard as Goten and Trunks.

Bra is born from parent that has SSB unlocked, while Pan is born from parent that has SSJ2 and Ultimate Form unlocked.

I can imagine Videl acting like Vegeta in the Saiyan and Cell Saga, that wouldn't make Videl look good.
If DBZ Videl acts like DBS Chi Chi, then that would be 100% bad.
Goten and Trunks barely trained and had to be forced into it. Caulifla and Kale were experienced combatants who had a martial artist concept explained to them, demonstrated for them, and then employed those practices themselves to achieve their Super Saiyan forms. We get to see Kale and Caulifla's character arcs evolve over the course of the Tournament of Power as they both improve and fight for their own personal reasons, while Trunks and Goten had to be dragged into 99% of their training and goofed off the entire time—and the one time they did train intentionally, they then goofed off for the entire fight after their supposed serious training.

You're literally proving my point here.
Trunks was training when there was no tournament announce, he was training with Vegeta since before. I am not sure were you are getting that he was forced to train against his will.
Goten was training with Chi Chi before any tournament was announced and even had sparring matches with Trunks. Then later he trained with Gohan, which again I don't see were Goten doesn't like to train. Heck Goten was happy that he gets to train with Gohan.
Then they both learned fusion and trained in the ROSAT without anyone forcing them to do it.

In DBS Goten and Trunks wanted to fight, they wanted to help the Z fighters out, they wanted to train with powerful people such as Goku, Vegeta and Whis but they were not allowed.
I don't see Caulifla and Kale having that same determination as them. I don't see them training with any masters.

You are making things up about them goofying around when they are training. They didn't goof around training before the Tournament and after the tournament.


How am I proving oyur point here?
Last edited by super michael on Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:28 am

super michael wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:02 am
Goten and Trunks were born from parent that had SSJ unlock, while Caulifla and Kale were not.
Caulifla and Kale were from a different universe where Saiyans evolved different from u7 Saiyans. Not a stretch unlocking Super Saiyan would be easier.

Prettt sure the Goten and Trunks were born from Super Saiyans explanation came out as a handwave well after the Boo saga ended and never did make much sense.
Goten and Trunks has both trained with their family,
Sparing with Chi Chi hardly qualifies as gaining Super Saiyan powers training.
Caulifla and Kale has never been shown to train anywhere as hard as Goten and Trunks.
Because we knew all about these girls before the Universal Survival arc?

There is a clear double standard between the ease of Goten and little Trunks gaining Super Saiyan and the ease of Kale and Caulifa gaining Super Saiyan and you're proving that point.

I can imagine Videl acting like Vegeta in the Saiyan and Cell Saga, that wouldn't make Videl look good.
If DBZ Videl acts like DBS Chi Chi, then that would be 100% bad.
As always, missing the point. This isn't about Videl acting like Super Chi Chi or like Vegeta in the Saiyan and Cell saga (Vegeta who is a super popular character but whatever)

Julie is talking about Videl, as she is in the Saiyaman saga the way it was written, would get hate from the fandom for yelling at Gohan

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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by super michael » Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:41 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:28 am Caulifla and Kale were from a different universe where Saiyans evolved different from u7 Saiyans. Not a stretch unlocking Super Saiyan would be easier.

Prettt sure the Goten and Trunks were born from Super Saiyans explanation came out as a handwave well after the Boo saga ended and never did make much sense.
That is a good explanation about them from being universe. They physically look different, plus they are not born with any tail at all.

It is unknown if Goten and Trunks were born with any tails, we never got a answer.
Sparing with Chi Chi hardly qualifies as gaining Super Saiyan powers training.
Training with Chi Chi won't result in any power, speed, stamina and defense increase. However it will give Goten some hand to hand combat skills and jumping high skills. She can't teach ki techniques at all.

However training with Trunks in many sparring match, that would result in power gain.

Because we knew all about these girls before the Universal Survival arc?

There is a clear double standard between the ease of Goten and little Trunks gaining Super Saiyan and the ease of Kale and Caulifa gaining Super Saiyan and you're proving that point.
That is the problem, we only see them do regular training.
Although them feeling their ki on their back to unlock SSJ and SSJ2, thinking back isn't really bad. That can be considered ki control.


As always, missing the point. This isn't about Videl acting like Super Chi Chi or like Vegeta in the Saiyan and Cell saga (Vegeta who is a super popular character but whatever)

Julie is talking about Videl, as she is in the Saiyaman saga the way it was written, would get hate from the fandom for yelling at Gohan

I completely missed the point, sorry about that. I never had any problem with Videl in DBZ. I wasn't aware there were people that had a problem with Videl.

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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by tonysoprano300 » Sat Jun 22, 2024 12:46 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:28 am
super michael wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:02 am
Goten and Trunks were born from parent that had SSJ unlock, while Caulifla and Kale were not.
Caulifla and Kale were from a different universe where Saiyans evolved different from u7 Saiyans. Not a stretch unlocking Super Saiyan would be easier.

Prettt sure the Goten and Trunks were born from Super Saiyans explanation came out as a handwave well after the Boo saga ended and never did make much sense.
Goten and Trunks has both trained with their family,
Sparing with Chi Chi hardly qualifies as gaining Super Saiyan powers training.
Caulifla and Kale has never been shown to train anywhere as hard as Goten and Trunks.
Because we knew all about these girls before the Universal Survival arc?

There is a clear double standard between the ease of Goten and little Trunks gaining Super Saiyan and the ease of Kale and Caulifa gaining Super Saiyan and you're proving that point.

I can imagine Videl acting like Vegeta in the Saiyan and Cell Saga, that wouldn't make Videl look good.
If DBZ Videl acts like DBS Chi Chi, then that would be 100% bad.
As always, missing the point. This isn't about Videl acting like Super Chi Chi or like Vegeta in the Saiyan and Cell saga (Vegeta who is a super popular character but whatever)

Julie is talking about Videl, as she is in the Saiyaman saga the way it was written, would get hate from the fandom for yelling at Gohan
Thats kind of unfortunate, I felt Videl & Gohans relationship was probably the only Toriyama did romance well.

Even the movie depictions of those two was always a good time…at the same time DB does love to portray its female characters as short tempered and naggy at times, with the only exception being 18. Its not so bad in the manga but the anime really goes crazy with it.

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Yuli Ban
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Re: What if the internet had existed back during the Buu Saga?

Post by Yuli Ban » Sat Jun 22, 2024 3:20 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:18 am I don't think the reaction to Goten and Trunks being Super Saiyans would be as bad as the reaction to Caulifla and Kale. MasenkoHA is right, the misogyny is the real kicker there.

They would inevitably complain about Videl being antagonistic towards male characters, though.
Videl, again, I can already see the MRA clickbait video titles right now. ESPECIALLY at the mention that she was arguably stronger than her dad or learned how to use ki "so easily"
In fact it wasn't even arguably, IIRC she easily cleared Mr. Satan.


With Caulifla, that's where I'm going to have to play devil's advocate.
Yes, it played a role (I mean hell, anyone remember Perfection or Tyrone Magnus's freakouts?).... but I feel like we're starting to forget history here, forgetting that the antagonism towards the "Super Saiyan bargain sale" went back literal DECADES. I mean even in those Usenet posts I posted earlier, there were some people in the 90s grumbling at how stupid it was that two kids could go Super Saiyan so easily.
So basically I would have to at least offer some counter point here, just so there isn't rewriting history like people seem to be doing with Z Broly being hated for "hating Goku for crying"/his power being MAXIMUM or the perception of Goku being a bad dad being things TFS created from the ether as if that wasn't the case for decades. Yeah, misogyny played a role, but to forget the decades of people getting progressively angrier at the "cheapening" of Super Saiyan could cause some context to be lost. Not that it matters since we've unfortunately never seen the U6 Saiyans in any capacity since 2018 and likely won't anytime soon (which could do wonders to explaining how they work differently or what exactly went on in their pasts).

Kale on the other hand? Fuck that, she's the Legendary Super Saiyan. She should have been born a Super Saiyan. Imagine her as a toddler going green wrecking shit. That's just how it should work.

The Yabanverse
Saiyan subspecies-centric worldbuilding fanverse

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