The Zero Mortal Plan is sort of dumb.

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DragonicHero
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Re: The Zero Mortal Plan is sort of dumb.

Post by DragonicHero » Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:58 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:03 am EVERY villain could have been dealt with through the Mafuba.
Not true actually, going from the post Piccolo Jr villains. it would've worked on Raditz. But it was unlikely to work on Nappa and Vegeta as they are a duo and the other could always break the seal. It might've worked on Vegeta when Nappa was dead, but the people who could use it (Raditz and Piccolo) were dead already. It could've possibly worked on Freeza when Piccolo fought him if he could use magic to make a seal.
It wouldn't have worked on 19 and 20 because again, duo. It wouldn't have worked on 16, 17 and 18 because trio. It wouldn't have worked on Cell because he knows the Mafuba Gaeshi (Piccolo cells).
It arguably could've worked on Fat Buu and Super Buu, but not on Buutenks due to absorbing Piccolo (Even though it's not clear if Buu in the manga gets the memories/techniques of the people he absorbs, as he is frequently shown to be out of the loop when it comes to stuff happening that the people he's absorbed knows as well as iirc only ever using techniques that he SAW the people he absorbed use (Remember Buu has amazing ability copying abilities.) )

I always thought it would've been cooler if when Tien showed up to try to help stop Buu, he FINALLY got to use the Mafuba, but Buu used the Mafuba Gaeshi on him.

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SupremeKai25
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Re: The Zero Mortal Plan is sort of dumb.

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Jun 22, 2024 11:17 am

DragonicHero wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:58 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:03 am EVERY villain could have been dealt with through the Mafuba.
Not true actually, going from the post Piccolo Jr villains. it would've worked on Raditz. But it was unlikely to work on Nappa and Vegeta as they are a duo and the other could always break the seal. It might've worked on Vegeta when Nappa was dead, but the people who could use it (Raditz and Piccolo) were dead already. It could've possibly worked on Freeza when Piccolo fought him if he could use magic to make a seal.
It wouldn't have worked on 19 and 20 because again, duo. It wouldn't have worked on 16, 17 and 18 because trio. It wouldn't have worked on Cell because he knows the Mafuba Gaeshi (Piccolo cells).
It arguably could've worked on Fat Buu and Super Buu, but not on Buutenks due to absorbing Piccolo (Even though it's not clear if Buu in the manga gets the memories/techniques of the people he absorbs, as he is frequently shown to be out of the loop when it comes to stuff happening that the people he's absorbed knows as well as iirc only ever using techniques that he SAW the people he absorbed use (Remember Buu has amazing ability copying abilities.) )

I always thought it would've been cooler if when Tien showed up to try to help stop Buu, he FINALLY got to use the Mafuba, but Buu used the Mafuba Gaeshi on him.
Uhm, Black and Zamasu were also a duo. In fact, they were the most coordinated and synchronized duo in the franchise, since they are literally the same person. This is an actual plot point brought up in the Story. Since they are the same person, their coordination and teamwork are next level.

Image


Had the Mafuba ever been relevant at any point of DBZ, they would have simply devised a strategy to split the duo up so that they can't aid one another, as they did with Black and Zamasu.

And Yeah, obviously if no one's there to cast the Mafuba, it wouldn't work, because no one would be there to cast it in the first place. That's missing the point. If someone WAS there to cast the Mafuba, every single DBZ villain besides Super Buu with Piccolo absorbed gets locked up.

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Re: The Zero Mortal Plan is sort of dumb.

Post by DragonicHero » Sat Jun 22, 2024 11:24 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 11:17 am
DragonicHero wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:58 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:03 am EVERY villain could have been dealt with through the Mafuba.
Not true actually, going from the post Piccolo Jr villains. it would've worked on Raditz. But it was unlikely to work on Nappa and Vegeta as they are a duo and the other could always break the seal. It might've worked on Vegeta when Nappa was dead, but the people who could use it (Raditz and Piccolo) were dead already. It could've possibly worked on Freeza when Piccolo fought him if he could use magic to make a seal.
It wouldn't have worked on 19 and 20 because again, duo. It wouldn't have worked on 16, 17 and 18 because trio. It wouldn't have worked on Cell because he knows the Mafuba Gaeshi (Piccolo cells).
It arguably could've worked on Fat Buu and Super Buu, but not on Buutenks due to absorbing Piccolo (Even though it's not clear if Buu in the manga gets the memories/techniques of the people he absorbs, as he is frequently shown to be out of the loop when it comes to stuff happening that the people he's absorbed knows as well as iirc only ever using techniques that he SAW the people he absorbed use (Remember Buu has amazing ability copying abilities.) )

I always thought it would've been cooler if when Tien showed up to try to help stop Buu, he FINALLY got to use the Mafuba, but Buu used the Mafuba Gaeshi on him.
Uhm, Black and Zamasu were also a duo. In fact, they were the most coordinated and synchronized duo in the franchise, since they are literally the same person. This is an actual plot point brought up in the Story. Since they are the same person, their coordination and teamwork are next level.

Image


Had the Mafuba ever been relevant at any point of DBZ, they would have simply devised a strategy to split the duo up so that they can't aid one another, as they did with Black and Zamasu.
Black and Zamasu as far as duos go were very different from the norm. Usually both members of the duo are extremely powerful, but Zamasu himself was weaker than everyone fighting him and got by on being an unkillable pest. I can't see the same sort of strategy working on foes like Nappa and Vegeta, or 17 and 18 because both members of the duo are vastly more powerful than the people fighting them and that means that they got to dictate the terms of the fight.
I guess an argument could be made for "Why didn't Piccolo use it against 17" but that fight sorta got interrupted anyway.

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Re: The Zero Mortal Plan is sort of dumb.

Post by GTx10 » Sat Jun 22, 2024 7:31 pm

My point is that Zamasu plan would of failed eventually. I explained why many times. So I'll break it down like this.

1. Zeno or the Gran Priest getting involved for any reason.

2. Jiren and Top being alive and far stronger.

Done.


Yes, every villains plan is destined to fail for one reason or another. I'm just trying to point out that Zamasu didn't think things through. Such hubris to think that nobody would catch on to his schemes at some point. So Gowasu was right about him, the evil Kai needed to chill out lol.
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Re: The Zero Mortal Plan is sort of dumb.

Post by Kaboom » Sat Jun 22, 2024 8:15 pm

Y'know, if Super was anything close to an actually well-written story with genuine thought behind it, then it might have been interesting to actually lean in to this flaw and examine it.

Have the hero characters actually observe that Zamas' plan has no realistic endgame or outcome where he wins, knowing that various universes have multiple people far stronger than him, many of them being non-gods whom he can't kill indirectly. You could emphasize that Zamas is just plain nuts and hasn't processed this himself, or maybe show that he knows someone stronger will stop him eventually but wants to go down swinging and eradicate as many mortals as possible before then. Maybe along those latter lines, Zamas could even view himself as a martyr for a "righteous" cause in some twisted, narcissistic way.

But alas, we instead got... well, not that.
Dragon Ball ended in 1997.

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Re: The Zero Mortal Plan is sort of dumb.

Post by theherodjl » Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:31 pm

I'd chalk it up to Toriyama deciding that Trunks' future was just a hopeless, nihilistic timeline where everything went down the toilet and needed to be erased, all so that the main timeline wouldn't seem quite like a shit show. Zamasu's plan and the very point of his existence was the excuse to eradicate the future timeline, because of course, Trunks absolutely did not need to have his happy ending in his own reality. :(
At least Jenna Ortega got some inspiration out of it.
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