Best Super era Transformation?

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Best Super era Transformation?

Post by BootyCheeksJohnson » Sat Jun 22, 2024 12:26 am

Which form of the new Dragon Ball era do you think is the best in terms of design, narrative introduction, impact on the franchise? (Super Saiyan God/Blue/Rose, Golden Freeza, Orange Piccolo, Beast Gohan etc.)
Personally I think Super Saiyan God was the best new transformation to come from the modern era. It's design was pure Toriyama, I liked the how it impacted the characters (it was neat seeing Goku's pride as a martial artist take a hit at the idea of a level of power he could only achieve with help), and I quite liked the possibilities that introducing God ki to mortals could've meant for the franchise. They didn't really do anything with that concept, but I can't fault the initial transformation for that, or the movie it debuted in.
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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by Kaboom » Sat Jun 22, 2024 12:51 am

The best transformation of the modern era is the standout one that's not even from Super itself: Limit Breaker Super Saiyan 4.

But that's kind of cheating, since even just baseline Super Saiyan 4 is already far better in both design and concept than all the lousy and uninspired "maybe if we keep puking up new forms we'll measure up to 1% of Beerus' power someday" color-swaps combined. So taking SS4 as a starting point, then jazzing it up by leaning harder into the warm color scheme it already has, plus longer almost-SS3 style hair and a nifty new aura, was an easy but effective recipe for success.

I'm not sure who actually designed LBSS4, but it sure doesn't resemble any of Toriyama's phoned-in modern form designs, because the last things we got from him in that category were "Bathed In Cheeto Dust" Piccolo and "HEY REMEMBER THE CELL GAMES" Gohan, and... blegh.
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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by Grimlock » Sat Jun 22, 2024 1:44 am

If fusion counts as a transformation, it has to be Gohanks.

I loved the design and what the character represents, though I don't know if I can to put in words what that representation means, but if you know what I'm talking about, then you know it. Gohanks is the ultimate culmation of teacher and student, of two best friends with an unshattered friendship, the greatest warrior of the future. Hopefully that helps understand a little.

Honorable mention goes to Xeno Vegenks.

If fusion doesn't count as a transformation, I don't know... There's Ultra Instinct. If it was the only transformation Dragon Ball Super had come up with, it would certainly be my second favorite one. Other than yellow/gold, I think only white/silver work for whatever the intent in changing color of the hair is supposed to be. It's very sad that Ultra Instinct comes right after a bunch of other random forms. So all it does is adding up to that pile. There's Ultra Instinct -Sign-, but same thing, more to the endless Saiyans transformations.

Honorable mentions go to Super Saiyan Mira and Super Saiyan Fu.


Off the top of my head, these are the best ones from modern era. If I'm forgetting something and remember it, I'll add it here later.
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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by AliTheZombie13 » Sat Jun 22, 2024 1:57 am

Honestly, all of them felt unearned and lazy to me.
If you pointed a gun to my head and told me to pick one, though... Super Saiyan Rosé and Fused Zamasu.

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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by Yuli Ban » Sat Jun 22, 2024 2:44 am

Ultra Instinct is okay, though I'm always on edge about the inevitability of crossing a godlike white/silver-haired form with Super Saiyan 4 to give us.... well, you know.
Ultra Instinct would get a massive boost if more characters (especially non-Saiyan characters) get to use it.


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The form that I unironically really like has to be Ikari/Wrathful/whatever it's called and wouldn't mind seeing it be used by others.
Image
One part of it is "Saiyan goes feral and battle-crazed" (but not like Darkspine Vegeta aka Ultra Ego, aka "the super form whose superpower is jobbing"). Oozaru without the weremonkey transformation, meaning you can access it without the full moon, that gives you the power boost of an Oozaru but with the same drawback as Oozaru in that that you succumb to this nexcidious bloodlusted berserker state where you can no longer control your impulsive Saiyan aggression? That's pretty neat. Maybe push that drawback a bit further so that using it degrades the users' mind and inflicts a Psychosis Gun effect where after a few minutes, they can no longer discern friend from foe, or maybe triple-down on it really enhancing base Saiyan battlelust, so that even if someone like Goku or Goten uses it, they just goes on a berserk, Khorne-like rampage for battle and challenge. It's not a recolor or even a glowy transformation (unless you want to say it's "just" a black-haired Super Saiyan with enhanced murder urges, which is a reasonable criticism)

The other part of it makes it feel like an accidental callback to False Super Saiyan
Image



If nothing else, it's a good explanation of why Legendary Super Saiyan is the way it is ("Super Saiyan + humanoid Oozaru") and could set up Super Saiyan 4 all the same. Though I looked the eerie, uncanny look of the restrained Super Saiyan form Broly had in movie 8, this is a more than suitable replacement.

So I have nothing against it at all. "A neat transformation with an interesting and fitting drawback that isn't a recolor of an existing transformation" is all I could hope for.

"But it's only a 10x power boost!"

I mean is it really? I don't think the Daizenshuu multipliers power-scalers religiously abide by are all that useful in this era (or ever, outside power scaling arguments, especially when power-scalers seem to take transformations as completely set and rigid boosts rather than capable of getting weaker and stronger like new base forms). And does that really matter if the form still comes off as cool on its own merits?
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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by BootyCheeksJohnson » Sat Jun 22, 2024 5:36 am

Yuli Ban wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 2:44 am Ultra Instinct is okay, though I'm always on edge about the inevitability of crossing a godlike white/silver-haired form with Super Saiyan 4 to give us.... well, you know.
Ultra Instinct would get a massive boost if more characters (especially non-Saiyan characters) get to use it.
I thought ultra instinct was going to be a state of being, kinda like how Whis is technically always using ultra instinct. At least that's what Resurrection F seemed to be teasing. Then it became a transformation that Goku needed to use it. Who knows maybe someday we'll get to see Goku use ultra instinct once in his base form when this post 2013 Dragon Ball era ends. It would be nice to see some kind of payoff for that.
Also on the topic of other characters getting ultra instinct, that reminds me of how people were predicting that maybe other mortals could gain god ki and that would open up new possibilities. But, alas it didn't go anywhere.
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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sat Jun 22, 2024 5:38 am

Easily Ultra Instinct because its a unique concept and not just a lazy pallet swap like Super Saiyan Blue, Rose and the Green haired form Super Broly went out of its way to say "hey this exists".
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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Sat Jun 22, 2024 7:52 pm

Super Saiyan God is still the best one, the most subversive form in the franchise, Ultra Instinct is a close second.
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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Jun 22, 2024 8:18 pm

Super Saiyan Rosé.

- Interesting concept as the special mode derived from the Saiyan body being "piloted" by a Kaioshin.

- Perfect colour choice. A rose is a seemingly-harmless and beautiful flower, which masks thorns beneath. Just as Zamasu was a seemingly plain and normal Kaioshin, who was actually genocidal and insane.

- Very good screen-time and writing, this form is given the proper balance of "badass" factor without feeling too overpowered, as it has a clear drawback. (Goku Black cannot access the full depth of Goku's power and needs to get "pummelled" to grow in strength)

- Base Goku Black's colours are dark and shadowy, whereas Rosé Goku Black incorporates bright and light colours: his hair contains shades of light, his pupils turn light grey, mimicking Zamasu's. This all creates a good contrast with his Base form and is a nice subversion: you would expect Goku Black's ultimate mode to be even more shadowy, instead it's bright and shining.

- Visually, it looks beautiful.

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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Jun 22, 2024 8:56 pm

I like Ultra Instinct as a concept the best, but Super Saiyan God wins in terms of originality.

I don’t really care for Super Saiyan Blue or Ultra Ego, and Orange Piccolo and Gohan Beast are just plain stupid.

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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Jun 22, 2024 8:59 pm

Super Saiyan God. Super kind of ruined it with Blue and Rose and whatever but at the time the simplicity in the design was kind of beautiful. And it had more gravitas building up to it than just cuz

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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:24 pm

Plain black haired transformation, the one goku has when he hasnt powered up or whatever... because I have an uncle who works at shueisha and Akira Toriyama-sama has revealed the black hair itself is a transformation. His birth color is imperceptible to the IRL Ningen eye. When he's at this powerful new form he can do feats of awesomeness such as defeat Shaggy and Gohan Blanco.
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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by Yuli Ban » Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:51 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 8:18 pm
- Perfect colour choice. A rose is a seemingly-harmless and beautiful flower, which masks thorns beneath. Just as Zamasu was a seemingly plain and normal Kaioshin, who was actually genocidal and insane.

Image
Correct me if I'm wrong, but purple is often used to represent pure or corrupted evil in Japanese media (and quite a bit of media in general). I'm unsure if this is just hearsay and Internet rumor though, because I rarely see anything definitive about this. But it's always fascinated me why some of the most evil characters in DB have purple/violet/pinkish auras
And yet here in America where we see pitch/jet black as representing evil (or just pure edgelordism), there's only been a grand total of two black auras
Just a neat little observation.
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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:18 pm

I love them all, but I especially enjoy Migatte no Goku'i. Gokuu’s look is so cool, but I really enjoy how it serves as a state where Gokuu can move all on his own, as if his decades of experience have culminated in a form where his body knows what to do.

Broli's transformations are insanely hot, but his new Berserk form is just...ooh boy. 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺
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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by TechExpert2021 » Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:36 pm

To me, it's Super Saiyan God.

Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Rosé, Super Saiyan Rage, SSB Evolution, SSB Kaioken x20, Ultra Instinct, Ultra Ego, Orange Piccolo, and Son Gohan Beast are just lazy and uninspired re-color transformations with almost little to no real foreshadowing and proper explanation. Most of them are just pulled out of nowhere.
Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:24 pm When he's at this powerful new form he can do feats of awesomeness such as defeat Shaggy and Gohan Blanco.
You may or may not heard this but Son Gohan Beast appears to be a stolen transformation. In order words, Son Gohan Beast's appearance is plagiarized from Gohan Blanco's appearance with little to no alterations made. Both Gohan Blanco and Gohan Beast look almost identical in appearance.
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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun Jun 23, 2024 6:01 am

Yuli Ban wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:51 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 8:18 pm
- Perfect colour choice. A rose is a seemingly-harmless and beautiful flower, which masks thorns beneath. Just as Zamasu was a seemingly plain and normal Kaioshin, who was actually genocidal and insane.

Image
Correct me if I'm wrong, but purple is often used to represent pure or corrupted evil in Japanese media (and quite a bit of media in general). I'm unsure if this is just hearsay and Internet rumor though, because I rarely see anything definitive about this. But it's always fascinated me why some of the most evil characters in DB have purple/violet/pinkish auras
And yet here in America where we see pitch/jet black as representing evil (or just pure edgelordism), there's only been a grand total of two black auras
Just a neat little observation.
I don't know if purple represents evil, but it certainly represents royalty.

Notice how those characters with clear shades of purple are also royals:

- Zamasu is a Kaioshin, a God-Ruler of the Universe.

- Frieza is an Emperor.

- Vegeta is a Crown Prince.

All three have special attacks/techniques that are shaded purple, the symbol of royalty. Coincidence?

For Janemba, the purple just looks cool, there is no deeper meaning. :)

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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by BootyCheeksJohnson » Sun Jun 23, 2024 7:23 am

Yuli Ban wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:51 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 8:18 pm
- Perfect colour choice. A rose is a seemingly-harmless and beautiful flower, which masks thorns beneath. Just as Zamasu was a seemingly plain and normal Kaioshin, who was actually genocidal and insane.

Image
Correct me if I'm wrong, but purple is often used to represent pure or corrupted evil in Japanese media (and quite a bit of media in general). I'm unsure if this is just hearsay and Internet rumor though, because I rarely see anything definitive about this. But it's always fascinated me why some of the most evil characters in DB have purple/violet/pinkish auras
And yet here in America where we see pitch/jet black as representing evil (or just pure edgelordism), there's only been a grand total of two black auras
Just a neat little observation.
I don't know about Japanese media, but in American comic books super villains usually had green and purple color schemes to contrast with the super heroes who usually had red and blue color schemes. This was done because the coloring of old printing presses for cheaply produced comic magazines had very little color variety. Famous examples who use green, purple, or both: Green Goblin, Doctor Doom, Mysterio, the Scorpion, the Joker, the Sandman, Doctor Octopus, and many others. The Hulk also had a green and purple scheme to make him appear as an outsider against the established bright colorful do gooders of 60's Marvel. (That last one might be coincidence, but it still works with the color theme.)
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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by nineko » Sun Jun 23, 2024 7:39 am

The Hulk was actually meant to be gray to prevent similarities to real world skin tones, though he was soon recolored because of the unsatisfactory quality of gray shades once printed. But since this is off-topic, please carry on.

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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:07 pm

For me it's Super Saiyan God.

It's the only actually good transformation from Super to me. Well, DBZ technically, but you know what i mean.
Tbh it's one of the best forms ever made. I still can't believe how such great form could be replaced by distaster SS Blue is. From one of best forms ever to perhaps worst form ever made on par with Golden Freeza.

If we count any media, then SFPS4 Limit Breaker was also great but that's mostly thanks to SS4 itself already being awesome. But it looks badass and is cool refreshment of SS4.
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Re: Best Super era Transformation?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:21 pm

I'm reminded of the approach that Nagamine Tatsuya took to depicting Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan during the storyboarding of Dragon Ball Super: Broli.
The battles in the TV anime Dragon Ball Super turned out pretty amazing too…?!

I guess you could say the TV series broke through its limits. So in the wake of that, I had to think of what I could evolve to make the battles even more intense. It sounds pretty crap to say “here’s another limit break” right after the last one, so I figured I’d just go crazy with it. What made things easy was that Toriyama-sensei‘s script constantly escalates, so with each escalation I could throw in a transformation to pump up the battle. Beyond that, I personally wanted to make Super Saiyan Blue look crazy strong, and to clearly show the gap between it and Super Saiyan God. The two of them have rather different fighting styles: God relies on predicting and dodging the opponent’s movements, plus godly techniques rather than power. Then Blue puts all the emphasis on bulldozing the opponent with brute force.

With the final battle and such, the animators got a little carried away; they ignored my storyboards and just drew whatever they felt like (laughs). All the animators are incredible, which means they all came up with incredible animation beyond anything I was expecting. There were cuts that were so amazing they were simply beyond my comprehension, so when checking them all I could do was go “Wow!! OK!!” and wait for the footage to be completed. And once the completed footage came in, it was even further beyond my imagination!! I just feel like a spectator at this point! This time there’s nothing but unimaginable battles that break all limits.
I really like thought process going on there, which makes me wish that Tomioka Atsuhiro had been brought on as an official co-writer to Toriyama to come up with more battle strategies for Super Saiyan God and Blue, since it's literally what he's known for in the industry. Heck, it's what Tomioka did numerous times on the television series itself.
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