Episode #0512 (08 September 2024)

We cover anything and everything Dragon Ball in hopes of enlightening... and a little bit of entertaining. Hosted every week by the Kanzenshuu staff and regular special guests from the professional and fandom communities. Your first, best, last, and only Dragon Ball podcast!

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
VegettoEX
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 17648
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Episode #0512 (08 September 2024)

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Sep 08, 2024 4:12 pm

:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 17061
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: 🏳️‍⚧️

Re: Episode #0512 (08 September 2024)

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Sep 08, 2024 4:31 pm

Yoooooo! New episode! It's been a while since I got to sit down and listen to an episode.

I'm looking forward to seeing Daima, which I feel like I'm probably just repeating myself at this point lol. I'm curious to see how the episodes flow, since the series won't be based on a manga and there's more pre-production time than Super, I'm curious how the stronger production will lead to more energetic pacing thanks to extra time to storyboard and animate stuff.

I'm definitely curious when we'll get to learn who the composer is. I'm surprised it hasn't been announced yet, but hey, production committees are weird.

User avatar
BlazingFiddlesticks
I Live Here
Posts: 2095
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:48 pm

Re: Episode #0512 (08 September 2024)

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Tue Sep 10, 2024 5:26 pm

This dropped the evening before a long drive back from vacay, perfectly timed. I had seen Ajay's most recent posts and became a little confused as well! I was never really bothered by the lack of news, since we already knew Toei would want to avoid a Super launch 2.0 and at the end of the day it is Dragon Ball, interest does not need to be actively kindled. When its ready its ready, and the legion will be at attention. The Fuji TV time slot could well be a last minute decision but I didn't expect what seems to be a limited series to go to the usual time slot either. Will we get a simultaneous streaming release? Will Crunchyroll crash on the first day again? Let's see! :lol:

User avatar
Omori
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:19 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Episode #0512 (08 September 2024)

Post by Omori » Sat Sep 21, 2024 4:17 am

Enjoyed hearing about your GT anime comic documentation, really haven't kept up with it after the Evil Dragons. Also cool having your takes on recent Daima stuff again, but there was a short comment regarding SDBH fansubs which kinda shocked me and feel like I need to address...

At around 29:28: "The people doing the subs on Dragon Ball stuff out there - who still think they can do this - barely understand English, nevermind Japanese..." :o

As someone who was involved subbing many episodes since the start of Big Bang Mission it doesn't feel nice hearing that while listening my favorite DB podcast. Also: I live in Japan, work in the localization industry and speak Japanese on a daily basis.
Of course there are certainly subs out there where I would agree with your comment, but there are also people who are really putting thoughts and passion into making subs available - since Bandai/Shueisha/Toei never bothered to provide official ones sadly. Overall I wouldn't say it's fair throwing all fansubs into one box.

I highly respect all the work you all do at Kanzenshuu and also look up to the translators of your team (who also did a great job with Universe Mission btw), but I do feel that comment might went a bit too far. Of course everyone can have his/her own opinion about translation quality and not everything is perfect, but yeah... Just wanted to address it and let me know if you have another further thoughts.

User avatar
VegettoEX
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 17648
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Episode #0512 (08 September 2024)

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Sep 26, 2024 12:55 pm

Thanks so much for your response! Apologies for it taking a little extra time to reply, but I wanted to collect my thoughts (and some concrete examples) before jotting things down.

For all I know, there have been multiple people/groups doing translations. I know that anything I've seen on YouTube in the past has been the worst of what I've seen. It seems some of that has been scrubbed, so I'm referring here to downloaded versions. I literally have no idea who does what in what capacity for what people/groups and what goes where, so this is as otherwise "blind" as I can grab it.

I want to say up front and guarantee that I didn't do a whole lot of work here to gather these screenshots. That was intentional, and by design. I wanted to VERY QUICKLY flip through entirely random episodes from entirely different folders and see what I quickly scrub to. I didn't pick and choose; I literally just quickly flipped to seeing dialogue and screencapped.

Here are some of these quick examples I saw right off the bat:


There are a lot of capitalization issues throughout the subtitles (saiyan, demigra), and there are plenty of typos I've seen (Kaioshin in particular here). There are also a ton of completely nonsensical sentences. One of these examples here is the second half of a sentence, but I promise that having the first part doesn't help the context at all.

I barely did any work to find these. They were regular and constant.

So with that in mind, I dipped to more recent content, Meteor Mission in particular. I transcribed the full first episode's translation that I saw... and it was pretty OK! Seems there were leaps and bounds gained here. That said, there are still a few things I wanted to call out here:

In particular, a good style guide is not to break up sentences across multiple screens with commas. If anything, it's a better practice to do so with ellipses. For example, there's:
Also, the other Goku,

you were fighting earlier, went along with the others for recovery and patrolling.
For starters, there's no reason this couldn't have all just been on screen in its entirety the whole time. That said, if it HAD to be broken up, I'd do something like (and I'd rewrite this whole thing anyway, since it's super awkward):
Also, the other Goku (that) you were fighting earlier...

...went along with the others for recovery and patrolling.
There's "Bon appetti" at some point which should be "Bon appétit" (note the mark and the typo).

For other capitalization issues, I see a line like "The scroll of Time, let us borrow your power!" and wonder why "Scroll" isn't capitalized since it's a proper noun. I wouldn't even start it with "The" here, either -- just something like, "Scroll of Time, let us borrow your power!"

There are a few other things from this episode in particular that I would critique, but they're mostly additional examples of the same things noted above (lots of weird comma breaks and some awkward sentences).

I don't know if you're doing the translation without any external editing, but there should always be another set of eyes dedicated to actually reading and comprehending the translation before it gets solidified. That's my role, for example, here at Kanzenshuu -- I do a pass of every translation and challenge back sentences that don't read smoothly, and fix any typos that may be submitted in there.

I hope that's a somewhat-comprehensive overview of where I'm coming from!
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::

User avatar
Omori
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:19 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Episode #0512 (08 September 2024)

Post by Omori » Mon Nov 04, 2024 10:40 pm

Thanks so much for your response! Apologies for it taking a little extra time to reply, but I wanted to collect my thoughts (and some concrete examples) before jotting things down.
Thank you for your detailed response and really sorry for getting back so late (already two podcast episodes further).

Seems that the examples you've picked might be from someone else, especially the ones with non-capitalized names.
But some are suspiciously close to ours... Anyway there is a lot of copy-pasting/reuse going on YouTube.

Typos certainly happen to us as well, even there's usually a second person doing editing the subtitles with some little adjustments here and there. This could also affect line breaks and ellipsis and I agree that some could be solved better as you mentioned.
So with that in mind, I dipped to more recent content, Meteor Mission in particular. I transcribed the full first episode's translation that I saw... and it was pretty OK! Seems there were leaps and bounds gained here.
Appreciate it, things certainly improved in the last four years.
I don't know if you're doing the translation without any external editing, but there should always be another set of eyes dedicated to actually reading and comprehending the translation before it gets solidified. That's my role, for example, here at Kanzenshuu -- I do a pass of every translation and challenge back sentences that don't read smoothly, and fix any typos that may be submitted in there.
Usually it's like one person translating and a second one making corrections while adding the subtitles. All of that happened mostly on a Sunday night (episode releases recently were mostly like 18:30 JST) with the intention of a (more or less) quick release to respond to the demand. I can totally see where you are coming from in terms of quality checks which could be way better for these subs.

Overall, since the series is now finished, it could make sense to go through and readjust things with having proper time and the knowledge of today. But who knows, maybe it ends up on a streaming service with official subtitles in the future.
("Episode of Bardock" and "Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans" being on Japanese Netflix now was certainly not on my bingo card for this year, no subtitles, but something)

Anyway, thanks again and keep up the good work :thumbup:

User avatar
FinalForumPodcast
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2024 10:43 am
Contact:

Re: Episode #0512 (08 September 2024)

Post by FinalForumPodcast » Tue Nov 05, 2024 1:30 pm

I'm just glad the podcast is getting to be slightly more regular. Love listening to you guys and hearing informed conversations about the franchise.

Post Reply