Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Yuji]

Why does DRAGON BALL: Sparking! ZERO treat Tenshinhan as if he's stronger than Krillin? Is it stupid?



I thought Krillin being the strongest Earthling was Word of God™ from Yamcha? What do you fellas think; who's stronger? Maybe Tenshinhan really doesn't count as an Earthling and the Third Eye stuff might become relevant in Daima.

Base Future Gohan is also higher than Cell Games Gohan, Adult Gohan and equal to DBS Vegeta in the same picture.

[QuakingStar]

Why does DRAGON BALL: Sparking! ZERO treat Tenshinhan as if he's stronger than Krillin? Is it stupid?



I thought Krillin being the strongest Earthling was Word of God™ from Yamcha? What do you fellas think; who's stronger? Maybe Tenshinhan really doesn't count as an Earthling and the Third Eye stuff might become relevant in Daima.

It's a video game, I wouldn't take it as word of god for anything.

[Koitsukai]

Kid Buu is also stronger than Buuhan in the game. Kakarot had characters plateau at like 8M even by the time BoG and RoF DLCs arrived.

Anyway, I think SZ could've used the 6-10 BoG chart for the characters' DP.

[Mr Baggins]

Anyway, I think SZ could've used the 6-10 BoG chart for the characters' DP.

I wouldn't be surprised if the devs used that scale as inspiration, considering a lot of it weirdly lines up.

Not to take any of this DP stuff as gospel, of course, since it's just a video game with some degree of balancing that obviously wouldn't reflect canon.

[DBZ Macky]

Kid Buu is also stronger than Buuhan in the game. Kakarot had characters plateau at like 8M even by the time BoG and RoF DLCs arrived.

Anyway, I think SZ could've used the 6-10 BoG chart for the characters' DP.

Well I believe Kid Buu is stronger than Buuhan at least in the Anime so I don't have a problem with that. Using the God Scale would've been super interesting but it'd probably make Whis even more broken and there wouldn't be any characters with DPs of 11, 12, 13 & 14.

It's a video game, I wouldn't take it as word of god for anything.

Agreed that you shouldn't take it as gospel but things like these let us know what the people in charge of the franchise might think about how strong certain characters are supposed to be where there's little matter-of-fact information about it. This is also why we're still interested in the Wafer Sticker numbers and, say, the numbers from the Movie 3 pamphlet despite them making objectively no sense most of the time.

That being said, I think Tenshinhan was stronger than Krillin during the Pre-Namek arcs, which is where the Earthlings have been the most relevant in the entire series, so I can understand why Tenshinhan's slightly stronger in the game even if supposedly Krillin was stronger during the Cell Games / Buu Arc.

Speaking of Sparking Zero and "official" numbers that make no sense, why does Vegeta think that Super Perfect Cell is ten times stronger than before despite Gohan only needing a 2x boost over his Super Saiyan form to defeat him. Is he stupid?



I guess Vegeta just whooped his ass harder enough in this What-If that Cell got a bigger "Zenkai" even though that'd put him at like SS3 Goku's level?

If anyone plays this what-if then please let me know what he says in the Japanese version and if his dialogue actually has "Juubai" in it because this could just be another dub-ism.

[QuakingStar]

Kid Buu is also stronger than Buuhan in the game. Kakarot had characters plateau at like 8M even by the time BoG and RoF DLCs arrived.

Anyway, I think SZ could've used the 6-10 BoG chart for the characters' DP.

Well I believe Kid Buu is stronger than Buuhan at least in the Anime so I don't have a problem with that. Using the God Scale would've been super interesting but it'd probably make Whis even more broken and there wouldn't be any characters with DPs of 11, 12, 13 & 14.

It's a video game, I wouldn't take it as word of god for anything.

Agreed that you shouldn't take it as gospel but things like these let us know what the people in charge of the franchise might think about how strong certain characters are supposed to be where there's little matter-of-fact information about it. This is also why we're still interested in the Wafer Sticker numbers and, say, the numbers from the Movie 3 pamphlet despite them making objectively no sense most of the time.

That being said, I think Tenshinhan was stronger than Krillin during the Pre-Namek arcs, which is where the Earthlings have been the most relevant in the entire series, so I can understand why Tenshinhan's slightly stronger in the game even if supposedly Krillin was stronger during the Cell Games / Buu Arc.

Speaking of Sparking Zero and "official" numbers that make no sense, why does Vegeta think that Super Perfect Cell is ten times stronger than before despite Gohan only needing a 2x boost over his Super Saiyan form to defeat him. Is he stupid?



I guess Vegeta just whooped his ass harder enough in this What-If that Cell got a bigger "Zenkai" even though that'd put him at like SS3 Goku's level?

If anyone plays this what-if then please let me know what he says in the Japanese version and if his dialogue actually has "Juubai" in it because this could just be another dub-ism.

Officially, Gohan was holding back a tremendous amount of power before he even transformed into Super Saiyan 2, but 10x is still nonsense. Thaty would mean Gohan had 5x the amount of power held back before even going Super Saiyan 2.

[Yuji]

Kid Buu is also stronger than Buuhan in the game. Kakarot had characters plateau at like 8M even by the time BoG and RoF DLCs arrived.

Anyway, I think SZ could've used the 6-10 BoG chart for the characters' DP.

Well I believe Kid Buu is stronger than Buuhan at least in the Anime so I don't have a problem with that. Using the God Scale would've been super interesting but it'd probably make Whis even more broken and there wouldn't be any characters with DPs of 11, 12, 13 & 14.

It's a video game, I wouldn't take it as word of god for anything.

Agreed that you shouldn't take it as gospel but things like these let us know what the people in charge of the franchise might think about how strong certain characters are supposed to be where there's little matter-of-fact information about it. This is also why we're still interested in the Wafer Sticker numbers and, say, the numbers from the Movie 3 pamphlet despite them making objectively no sense most of the time.

That being said, I think Tenshinhan was stronger than Krillin during the Pre-Namek arcs, which is where the Earthlings have been the most relevant in the entire series, so I can understand why Tenshinhan's slightly stronger in the game even if supposedly Krillin was stronger during the Cell Games / Buu Arc.

Speaking of Sparking Zero and "official" numbers that make no sense, why does Vegeta think that Super Perfect Cell is ten times stronger than before despite Gohan only needing a 2x boost over his Super Saiyan form to defeat him. Is he stupid?



I guess Vegeta just whooped his ass harder enough in this What-If that Cell got a bigger "Zenkai" even though that'd put him at like SS3 Goku's level?

If anyone plays this what-if then please let me know what he says in the Japanese version and if his dialogue actually has "Juubai" in it because this could just be another dub-ism.

Officially, Gohan was holding back a tremendous amount of power before he even transformed into Super Saiyan 2, but 10x is still nonsense. Thaty would mean Gohan had 5x the amount of power held back before even going Super Saiyan 2.

If you believe Gohan was holding back before SS2 AND that SS2 was stronger than usual due to a rage boost, I guess it can fit.

[Hugo Boss]

Vegeta’s assessment that Super Perfect Cell was “ten times stronger” could reflect his perception rather than an exact power calculation.

After Super Perfect Cell’s revival, his ki spiked significantly, enough to pressure Gohan. Although Gohan only needed a 2x boost to overpower Cell, Vegeta’s “tenfold” remark might be his way of expressing the intense difference between the two encounters. This speaks more to Vegeta’s tendency to emphasize threats than any strict mathematical scaling, imo.

In tense battle situations, characters often use hyperbolic language to express the intensity of an opponent’s power, rather than precise measurements. Vegeta likely sensed a significant jump in Cell’s power and conveyed it in a way that reflected shock and the overwhelming nature of Cell’s resurgence, rather than intending a literal tenfold increase.

[SelfTrainedNamekian]

Why does DRAGON BALL: Sparking! ZERO treat Tenshinhan as if he's stronger than Krillin? Is it stupid?



I thought Krillin being the strongest Earthling was Word of God™ from Yamcha? What do you fellas think; who's stronger? Maybe Tenshinhan really doesn't count as an Earthling and the Third Eye stuff might become relevant in Daima.

its how strong the character in the game, not in the series

[dbgtFO]

Speaking of Sparking Zero and "official" numbers that make no sense, why does Vegeta think that Super Perfect Cell is ten times stronger than before despite Gohan only needing a 2x boost over his Super Saiyan form to defeat him. Is he stupid?



I guess Vegeta just whooped his ass harder enough in this What-If that Cell got a bigger "Zenkai" even though that'd put him at like SS3 Goku's level?

If anyone plays this what-if then please let me know what he says in the Japanese version and if his dialogue actually has "Juubai" in it because this could just be another dub-ism.

Going from Semi Perfect Cell to Super Perfect Cell may just be a 10x increase(I don't have this game, so I don't know if in this what if, Cell is reduced to semi Perfect before coming back as Super Perfect).

[Koitsukai]

My spanish subtitles aren't faithful to what the audio says in japanese, so I'm pretty sure it's a dubism. Maybe they made a mistake, there's a word that means "several times" that sounds like "5x" or "10x".
My copy of the manga has Piccolo saying he is "5x stronger than before" after merging with Nail but the japanese dub says he's gotten many times stronger than before, not 5x. The same happened with Cyborg Tao Pai Pai.

I believe this is the case as well.

But like dbgtFO says, SPC(and Gohan) is 2x Perfect Cell, and Perfect Cell being 5x 2nd form Cell doesn't sound impossible to me. Not sure how much stronger he's supposed to get, though.

[Makaioshin]

How strong is Magenta given his enhancements? He may not be Freeza or Tao Pai Pai to start off but presumably some advanced technology went into his cybernetics. He was pretty confident standing against Hedo too knowing that Hedo had some pretty powerful guns created for himself and the Gamma duo. Could anyone in the Saiyan arc even hurt him?

[Zephyr]

How strong is Magenta given his enhancements? He may not be Freeza or Tao Pai Pai to start off but presumably some advanced technology went into his cybernetics. He was pretty confident standing against Hedo too knowing that Hedo had some pretty powerful guns created for himself and the Gamma duo. Could anyone in the Saiyan arc even hurt him?

Given that they have Gero's data on certain thing, I imagine he has been enhanced in a similar way to Gero's own cyborgs. For that reason I would place him comfortably above Freeza and the beginning-of-Cell-arc Super Saiyans.

[Yuji]

All the arc antagonists and villains ranked based on their strongest iteration:

1. Beerus
2. Black Freeza
3. Ultra Ego Vegeta
4. Super Saiyan Broly
5. Cell Max
6. Orange Piccolo
7. Gas
8. Angel Moro
9. Jiren
10. Merged Zamasu
11. Hit
12. Post-GSK awakening Boo
13. Omega Shenlong
14. Super 17
15. Baby
16. Tenshinhan
17. Muten Roshi
18. Cyborg Tao
19. Pilaf

Anyone missing, or any order you disagree with? Not gonna lie, the drop-off from Baby to Tenshinhan is kinda hilarious

[ZombieVito]

All the arc antagonists and villains ranked based on their strongest iteration:

1. Beerus
2. Black Freeza
3. Ultra Ego Vegeta
4. Super Saiyan Broly
5. Cell Max
6. Orange Piccolo
7. Gas
8. Angel Moro
9. Jiren
10. Merged Zamasu
11. Hit
12. Post-GSK awakening Boo
13. Omega Shenlong
14. Super 17
15. Baby
16. Tenshinhan
17. Muten Roshi
18. Cyborg Tao
19. Pilaf

Anyone missing, or any order you disagree with? Not gonna lie, the drop-off from Baby to Tenshinhan is kinda hilarious

Roshi > Tenshinhan is outright shown in DBS lol.

[Yuji]

All the arc antagonists and villains ranked based on their strongest iteration:

1. Beerus
2. Black Freeza
3. Ultra Ego Vegeta
4. Super Saiyan Broly
5. Cell Max
6. Orange Piccolo
7. Gas
8. Angel Moro
9. Jiren
10. Merged Zamasu
11. Hit
12. Post-GSK awakening Boo
13. Omega Shenlong
14. Super 17
15. Baby
16. Tenshinhan
17. Muten Roshi
18. Cyborg Tao
19. Pilaf

Anyone missing, or any order you disagree with? Not gonna lie, the drop-off from Baby to Tenshinhan is kinda hilarious

Roshi > Tenshinhan is outright shown in DBS lol.

In the anime, I guess. Yamcha outright states he's a top 3 Earthling in the Moro arc, unless you believe he's stronger than Tenshinhan too.

[QuakingStar]

Roshi had surpassed his human students by the time of the ToP, in the anime there is a statement that he was only weaker than Super Saiyan Goten or Super Saiyan Trunks somehting along those lines. In the manga he has his own UI like skill and still did better than Krillin and and Tien in the ToP... also Yamcha always brags and is wrong most of the time so don't take what he says seriously the dude is always getting humbled horrendously.

[Hugo Boss]

Broly (Super Saiyan Full Power) might indeed surpass Beerus based on statements from Goku and the display of raw power in Dragon Ball Super: Broly. While it’s still ambiguous if Broly has definitively surpassed Beerus (given how secretive the series is about his full power), he at least deserves serious contention for the top spot, making his ranking order debatable.

[QuakingStar]

He finally learned to control his Berserk Super Saiyan form in the last chapter, he was at a disadvantage despite Gohan having already fought UI Goku and expending himself with his "power-up right until I reach the lose control point, and stop" trick. Whis and Goku then gave Gohan props saying he is unique. They did say that Gohan and Broly were similar BEFORE that though. So if anybody is surpassing Beerus in power it will be Gohan and Broly.

[Hugo Boss]

He finally learned to control his Berserk Super Saiyan form in the last chapter, he was at a disadvantage despite Gohan having already fought UI Goku and expending himself with his "power-up right until I reach the lose control point, and stop" trick. Whis and Goku then gave Gohan props saying he is unique. They did say that Gohan and Broly were similar BEFORE that though. So if anybody is surpassing Beerus in power it will be Gohan and Broly.

Broly’s mastery of his base Super Saiyan form in the manga doesn’t necessarily imply his unique Super Saiyan Full Power form is surpassed. In the movie, this form demonstrated a raw strength rivaling Gogeta, a feat far beyond what we’ve seen in his controlled Super Saiyan state in the manga. Broly hasn’t accessed Super Saiyan Full Power since the movie, so there’s no evidence his current control extends to that stage. Therefore, his strongest form still remains the berserk Full Power transformation, and that form still puts him in contention for surpassing Beerus.