MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/11/24!)

[AliTheZombie13]

That's not the aftermath. She's still unconscious. We don't know what state she's actually in.

She got knocked out the exact same way Gohan knocked Trunks out.
By DB logic, that means she's fine.

We're shown this twice, once in the previous episode, once in the flashback, and we're told explicitly that he just "put her to sleep a bit."
There's no ambiguity what happened or what state she's in here.

Then Giru gets killed and 3-Star moves in to beat her up while she's unconscious.
It's not a blink-and-you-miss-it moment either.

Yeah, he moves in. You're adding the rest.

No, the next episode adds in the rest. It's not that hard to connect the dots.

There's just no logic to his actions as you and the show want me to believe.

Character = Evil. Does evil things.
That's pretty logical to me.

His characterization is bare-bones and cartoonishly evil.
That's the argument you actually should be making here.

That is an unfair comparison.

Sounds pretty fair to me.
Was done to show off how evil the character is, same is happening here.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that because I think she looks fine. She doesn't look tortured. Just looks a bit dirty and her clothes a bit roughed up.

Scratches all over her face and a bloody mouth that she didn't have before, and an expression of pure agony.
In Censored Kids Anime logic, that means someone fucked her up badly.

I feel like these statements contradict each other. If there's *nothing* muddled or vague, how could it have been conveyed better? If it could have been conveyed better, that must mean *something* is lacking, right? Even if you don't agree to the degree that I'm arguing, clearly we agree something is amiss here.

This goes right back to a lot of things in GT.

Could have the show explained better in the first episode how exactly did Pilaf learn about the Black Star Dragon Balls and how they were never mentioned before and how King Piccolo seems to have had no recollection of them, etc, etc, etc? Yes.

Did it need to? Absolutely not, it doesn't affect the plot or my comprehension of it in any way.
In fact, if the first few episodes of Daima are anything to go by, we're better off not having had that.

I think you're forgetting some important context here. We have the ability to run back to a previous episode to check a detail. For people watching this on TV when it first aired (what the show was written for), there would have been a full two weeks in between those two shots.

I mean, we have Pan getting knocked out in one hit in the back, then 4-Star saying "he put her to sleep."
Then we have a scene with her seemingly fine and sleeping with Giru creeping after her.
Then we have a flashback of Pan getting knocked out in one hit in the back, again.
Then she shows up all beaten up with her face fucked up.

I'm sorry, but... I just don't agree that something seems vague here.

[Scsigs]

Dragon Ball GT: Great ideas, bad executions the series!

[Zephyr]

Yeah, I think a lot of this is a case of the GT staff trying to call back to and repeat fairly common DB things. Characters treating life-and-death battles like glorified tournament matches until they can no longer get away with doing so, Goku paying close attention to his opponents' techniques in order to counter them, etc. The actual execution in the text leaves much to be desired (mark it on the Bingo card), but I get the broad strokes they're presumably aiming to invoke.

Si Xing Long, like many before him, really wants a good fight, particularly one with Goku, to the point of eschewing otherwise more practical methods of bringing about maximally-evil results. This is just the sort of effect Goku has on evil bastards who like to throw hands for the sake of it, from Tenshinhan and Piccolo to Vegeta and Freeza. And this is in turn a reflection of how Goku and the rest of his stable often operate, wanting a good fight to the point of eschewing otherwise more practical methods of bringing about maximally-good results (mark it on the Bingo card). Shades of grey on both sides, meeting in the middle, all for the sake of a good fight, in this wacky tournament-coded universe.

That's Dragon Ball, baby!

[Gaffer Tape]

The Freeza We Have At Home... - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Evil Dragon Arc Part 6

It's Dragon Ball Dissection December! Starting off this year continues our look at San Xing Long and Si Xing Long, which launches us into a look at the characters of the Evil Dragons. They're a lot of character types we've seen before, but why do those earlier examples work while these fall short? Why are Namu and Freeza better characters? Hope you enjoy it and let me know what you think!

[nineko]

It's Dragon Ball Dissection December!

Watch out! You posted the link to the unlisted part 7 instead of the intended part 6!

[Zephyr]

Yeah, I think the clear reason why this is the Dragon that is like this is because it's the Four Star Dragon. He carries the Ball that Son Gohan had, and the only one that Son Goku ever cares about holding onto. Beyond simply "forming a relationship with Goku", his ethical martial code also echoes those of Gohan and Goku. Son Gohan taught Goku to treat girls nice. Goku, famously and infamously, often provides deadly opponents with honorable duels (up to a point), to the chagrin of many (yourself included, Gaffer Tape). He is not simply forming a relationship with Goku, he is emulating Goku and his grandfather.

Does that make narrative, in-universe, sense though? Eh, not really. I could certainly headcanon it that Gohan and Goku were literally rubbing off on the Ball due to them having it for such long stretches of time, and the Dragon absorbed it through the Ball. In that sense, Son Gohan and Son Goku would be the Dragon's "cultural background". But if that was ever the intent, the show certainly doesn't present the mechanics and relationships of the Balls and Dragons in that way; they're born from wishes, not from the Balls they carry. The Balls are not "eggs", incubating and absorbing the ki and intent of their carriers over the span of decades, which help to shape the incubating Dragon embryo, or anything like that. Which is a shame, because I think that would have been very cool, and would gel with the clear thematic intent.

[jcogginsa]

On the topic of "The Viewers write the story", here's how I'd handle the Shadow Dragons (And to be clear, this is basically fanfic, not an interpretation of the characters as the Show presents them)

Because the Shadow Dragons are artificial creations, I'd lean into the idea that they're new life forms. They have a base personality formed out of whichever negative emotion happened to be most prevalent during their creation. They're developing who they are in the process of encountering the heroes.

Some times whatever negative emotion they center is one that encourages a complacent lifestyle. The early, more comedic dragons would be of this flavor.

For the Fire and Ice Dragons, I'd go for Irony. From the Shadow Dragon perspective, Ice is the more heroic of the two because he prioritizes the good of the Dragons as a group the most, to the detriment of any who is not in his in group. He's a patriot.

The Fire Dragon meanwhile is less heroic from the Shadow Dragon Perspective, because he seeks to fulfill his personal desires first and foremost. It just so happens that what he desires is to prove himself in battle, and in seeking that he happens to behave in ways that humans would consider honorable. He doesn't cheat in fights because to cheat would be to admit inferiority. He doesn't kill those obviously weaker than he is because it would prove nothing.

I think that'd be interesting

[coola]

I'm kinda reminded of Kamen Rider Fourze, where one villain overstayed it's welcome, while others become just one shot cannon fodder. Maybe if GT had more episodes, at least twins would get more character?

[Gaffer Tape]

It's Dragon Ball Dissection December!

Watch out! You posted the link to the unlisted part 7 instead of the intended part 6!

Thank you so, so much for letting me know. And thanks to VegettoEX for fixing it for me as I'd long since exceeded the editing time limit. Ugh, I am such a mess!

[nineko]

With that out of the way, there is a question which is quite possibly an elephant in the room of spirit and time, so I might as well ask it even if it's not relevant to the episode at hand: do you have any plans for the future of Dragon Ball Dissection once you're done with GT? With 5 episodes in December alone, even if you throw in a spelling guide and a fashion extravaganza or two, I can see you being done with GT by early 2025. Perhaps you could bite the bullet and tackle Super at last? Or, you know, if you don't want to talk about "Super" yet, there's still the loophole with which you could talk about Kami to Kami and the resurrection of Freeza movies since they're technically "Z"...

[WittyUsername]

With that out of the way, there is a question which is quite possibly an elephant in the room of spirit and time, so I might as well ask it even if it's not relevant to the episode at hand: do you have any plans for the future of Dragon Ball Dissection once you're done with GT? With 5 episodes in December alone, even if you throw in a spelling guide and a fashion extravaganza or two, I can see you being done with GT by early 2025. Perhaps you could bite the bullet and tackle Super at last? Or, you know, if you don't want to talk about "Super" yet, there's still the loophole with which you could talk about Kami to Kami and the resurrection of Freeza movies since they're technically "Z"...

I’ve been thinking it’d be funny if we got a DBD around April Fools Day for Dragonball Evolution.

[Zephyr]

Maybe it is finally time for Dr. Slump Dissection.

[Kid Buu]

Maybe it is finally time for Dr. Slump Dissection.

I'll take more PGSM discussion myself.

[Gaffer Tape]

The Villain Who Came With the Frame - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Evil Dragon Arc Part 7

Dragon Ball Dissection December continues with the opening salvos of the Yi Xing Long fight. He's certainly not infuriating me with his transparently flimsy assertions of honor, and his fighting tactics are often creative. However, can he ever rise above gravelly-voiced genericism? Or is he just The Villain Who Came With the Frame? I hope you like it!

[jcogginsa]

I have to agree with Bulma, I prefer Vegeta's Super Saiyan four look. But that's more to do with his color scheme, I like the blue pants more than Goku's brown

[AliTheZombie13]

I expected there to be some quirky comment about how Chi-chi and Bulma are into furries or something.

[Koitsukai]

Insane that the Fire dragon had some eyedrops in his pocket instead of showing the true power of a dragon and summoning it like if it is some sort of wish they can do, or something better than being a meds peddler.

I agree about that clock and the Blind KHH. It's either one or the other if you want to catch your enemy by surprise.

Ohzaru Vegeta acting like an asshole and trying to scare the crew always makes me laugh. How did he know that everybody would forget he is in total control of that form? but more importantly, how did he know the Dragon wouldn't just murder him right off the bat instead of letting him do his little act?

[MisteryOne]

Vegeta's transformation never made sense to me even as a child. Seriously, why did he not transform into a SS4 in the Saiyan arc? What is different this time?, with Goku, it makes sense. He turns into a mix of Oozaru with SS, with golden fur. Controlling that new form, that he would never had access to before because he didn't have both SS and a tail, gives him SS4. It's simple. It's effective.
Then Vegeta archives the form by...controlling the nornal Ozaru form. The same one he could control back in the Saiyan arc. Why?

Of course, there are bigger issues like Vegeta here being reduced to what people say Goten is: fusion fodder. He literally doesn't get to defeat any of the seven (SEVEN!) villains of the arc, he just shows up at the end so there is Gogeta. Who also has his own issues but it's nothing you have not talked about.

I bursted out laughing at the eyedrops on my rewatch. What even was that for? But yeah, Omega Shenron is...a pretty nothing burger. It took me years to learn there are slight differences between his base form and the transformed one, besides the DBs themselves. He doesn't have anything going for him. He's literally only memorable because he gets humillated by Gogeta and because he was the last villain of the original run. That really doesn't speak well of him, if all he can manage to be is "Buuhan, but if he was the end of the Buu arc".

I also don't get this whole guilt-tripping about abusing the DBs. Not only is it objectively wrong because the cast only used them to help Earth most of the time by undoing the damage done to it by villains (and Piccolo Daimao's wish is unrelated to them-the only wish that fits the bill is Oolong's), it's also very stupid on a conceptual level. Old Kaioshin doesn't have any right to be "see I told you!" when he was so vague about the consecuences of using the DBs. Popo is turned into an incredible asshole who never bothered to actually warn the cast. And what about the Namekians? They should know about this, right? Or am I supposed to believe they don't? Why am I supposed to agree they abused the DBs despite them never being propertly warned? The fans usually point this out as a huge positive of the arc thematic wise, but with how it's handled, it's too poorly implemented. Super has better abuse of the DBs by Bulma! But here Omega is trying to guilt blame Goku, of all people. He doesn't talk in a general sense about the DBs being overused. He specifically talks like if this was karma for Goku.

Really, on a rewatch this arc has proven to be a fucking disaster. It's not the Super 17 arc sure, but it really isn't the high bar to end the series the fandom usually claims it is.