"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[JulieYBM]

They won't announce the end of this comic at the same time as they are releasing their much-anticipated new series. We'll probably learn about the comic's future at JUMP Festa in December.

[Freezer94]

Dragon Ball Super was a blind spot for me, I basically ignored it and never saw any part of it (including the 2 2010s Z movies) until very recently. I watched the 4 modern movies and read all the manga and I ended up enjoying the experience a lot more than I thought I would. Probably helped that I didn't have much hype and I didn't have to wait weeks or months for new content so it was a really quick binge.

I'd never say it's my favourite Dragon Ball material but a lot of it I like quite a bit even if it's on the lower end of overall Dragon Ball for me.

That said I've started watching the anime and I feel what everyone else says but in reverse. The manga pacing felt perfect to me but the anime is so dragged out that it's a pain to watch. I'm kind of glad the Moro and Granolah arcs are still manga exclusive cause I don't want to see their pacing crawl.

[Cipher]

Dragon Ball Super was a blind spot for me, I basically ignored it and never saw any part of it (including the 2 2010s Z movies) until very recently. I watched the 4 modern movies and read all the manga and I ended up enjoying the experience a lot more than I thought I would. Probably helped that I didn't have much hype and I didn't have to wait weeks or months for new content so it was a really quick binge.

I'd never say it's my favourite Dragon Ball material but a lot of it I like quite a bit even if it's on the lower end of overall Dragon Ball for me.

That said I've started watching the anime and I feel what everyone else says but in reverse. The manga pacing felt perfect to me but the anime is so dragged out that it's a pain to watch. I'm kind of glad the Moro and Granolah arcs are still manga exclusive cause I don't want to see their pacing crawl.

I've argued rather tirelessly that the general mantra about the manga being too fast wouldn't be felt by anyone reading it blind, and that the anime would feel needlessly slow in comparison.

And also argued that you'd start to see people getting into Super for the first time through the manga (which will be an increasingly common way to go through it with the anime being less accessible in some ways and more of a time commitment) beating that drum. Allow me just one "vindicated."

Glad you enjoyed it! I land there right with you--not beating out anything from the original run, but plenty of fun as extra sequel content, and it still feels like part of the world.

[Vegard Aune]

I've argued rather tirelessly that the general mantra about the manga being too fast wouldn't be felt by anyone reading it blind, and that the anime would feel needlessly slow in comparison.

I feel like regardless of any other frame of reference, the Beerus, Universe 6, and Universe Survival arcs of the manga would indeed feel rushed. Mostly because... well they literally have entire pages that just quickly summarize significant chunks of the plot so that they can then spend all the remaining page time on action. The Future Trunks arc moves at a pretty good pace though, and having only read Moro and Granollah after they concluded I thought those were paced fine too. And I've been a defender of the Super Hero arc ever since I found out it was a thing. It's an entirely competent adaptation of the movie into manga form that, while not adding all that much, does give the story the breathing room I think it needs to really just work as an arc on its own merit. Y'all may have wanted actual new material... but Toyotaro and Toriyama or potentially some editor at Shueisha decided they wanted the manga to adapt the movie, and I think it did a good job at it.

[Freezer94]

I've argued rather tirelessly that the general mantra about the manga being too fast wouldn't be felt by anyone reading it blind, and that the anime would feel needlessly slow in comparison.

I feel like regardless of any other frame of reference, the Beerus, Universe 6, and Universe Survival arcs of the manga would indeed feel rushed. Mostly because... well they literally have entire pages that just quickly summarize significant chunks of the plot so that they can then spend all the remaining page time on action. The Future Trunks arc moves at a pretty good pace though, and having only read Moro and Granollah after they concluded I thought those were paced fine too. And I've been a defender of the Super Hero arc ever since I found out it was a thing. It's an entirely competent adaptation of the movie into manga form that, while not adding all that much, does give the story the breathing room I think it needs to really just work as an arc on its own merit. Y'all may have wanted actual new material... but Toyotaro and Toriyama or potentially some editor at Shueisha decided they wanted the manga to adapt the movie, and I think it did a good job at it.

Battle Of Gods and the very beginning of U6 are rushed but that's because the manga was much more obviously a promotional tool at that stage. But once the U6 fighting starts I feel like the pacing is good. We have quick but not too quick comedic tournament fights with their own gimmicks and they never overstay their welcome. Reminds me a lot of earlier Dragon Ball tournaments that were also pretty short. And the ending does also wrap things up well. So like 95% of that arc is paced excellently.

I still don't understand why people find TOP to be rushed in the manga though I say that from the perspective of someone who hasn't yet seen the anime version which goes on for dozens of episodes.

[Freezer94]

Also I do find the Super manga better than some of OG DB.

To me it's basically all better than Artificial Human/Cell arc which I find a bore and my least favourite manga arc. I know it makes me the minority but Goku Black is my favourite Arc with a Future Trunks.

[Vegard Aune]

I still don't understand why people find TOP to be rushed in the manga though I say that from the perspective of someone who hasn't yet seen the anime version which goes on for dozens of episodes.

Totally Not Mark did a video breaking it down once, about how just every single page is so crammed with panels and reaction shots that nothing gets to really breathe. And speaking personally, you have stuff like Goku's first Ultra Instinct scene lasting for like five pages and consisting of him dodging one or two attacks and nothing else, or Gohan's fight against Kafla being almost entirely off-panel despite how much focus was put on how utterly unstoppable Kale was and how they claimed Kafla would be even more powerful since she had Kale's power but also Caulifla's brains. It's just... there are so many characters running around in that arc that it really feels like literally nothing in it gets enough focus to be truly memorable. I've said it before: The climax of the Moro arc was the first time Toyotaro truly made Ultra Instinct feel properly epic.

And yeah, the anime is like half a year straight of fighting and definitely does drag. I'm not gonna claim that the anime's version of the Universe Survival arc was some pristine masterpiece either, but like... when it was good, it was spectacular. That first Ultra Instinct scene that was like five pages in the manga? I think the anime's take on it qualifies as one of the greatest scenes in all of Dragon Ball, Super or otherwise. And while the manga and anime basically have the same ending to the arc, the anime's handling of it was just masterfully directed and firmly cemented Universe Survival as my favorite arc of Super (not a high bar to be fair, but still), whereas in the manga it was more just a "Well that happened".

[JulieYBM]

I think the anime version of the Tournament of Power would have been a lot better if it had been planned out more, but that's not really on the staff given what little time and resources they were working with. I definitely do wish that they had intercut flashbacks with the fighting to better expand on the characters' motivations, though. That being said, it did nail the moments that it really tried to nail, like the Kale and Caulifla stuff and the Ultra Instinct and later Jiren stuff.

[Mr Baggins]

It's just... there are so many characters running around in that arc that it really feels like literally nothing in it gets enough focus to be truly memorable.

Nah. Though I've said all this before and in much greater detail previously: Universes 6, 7 and 11's teams are the only characters the arc ever promises to be its principal subject matter, and they get plenty of focus all throughout. Everyone else is set dressing designed to expand upon those specific teams and the chaos of fighting in a battle royale, and they accomplish that too. We didn't need whole chapters dedicated to Chuck and Sneed from Planet Feed & Seed. I'm glad the manga stuck to the story's major throughlines instead of being pointlessly meandering like the anime.

The frenetic pacing also enhances the frenetic nature of the tournament, which isn't mentioned often enough here.

I will agree that the arc is occasionally rushed, like with Gohan vs. Kefla and also the U6 Namekians being blueball characters, but that's all small potatoes.

[Freezer94]

It's just... there are so many characters running around in that arc that it really feels like literally nothing in it gets enough focus to be truly memorable.

Nah. Though I've said all this before and in much greater detail previously: Universes 6, 7 and 11's teams are the only characters the arc ever promises to be its principal subject matter, and they get plenty of focus all throughout. Everyone else is set dressing designed to expand upon those specific teams and the chaos of fighting in a battle royale, and they accomplish that too. We didn't need whole chapters dedicated to Chuck and Sneed from Planet Feed & Seed. I'm glad the manga stuck to the story's major throughlines instead of being pointlessly meandering like the anime.

The frenetic pacing also enhances the frenetic nature of the tournament, which isn't mentioned often enough here.

I will agree that the arc is occasionally rushed, like with Gohan vs. Kefla and also the U6 Namekians being blueball characters, but that's all small potatoes.

Thank you. I even did another re-read of that tournament today to make sure I wasn't out of my mind, but no. It's purposely frenetic and we get a lot of spotlight on all the characters that matter at the time. I don't think we need to see every single competitor's action. That'd be like if we saw every single preliminary match in a traditional tournament. It's filler, background noise to enhance the spectacle of the event.

[Cipher]

I still don't understand why people find TOP to be rushed in the manga though I say that from the perspective of someone who hasn't yet seen the anime version which goes on for dozens of episodes.

Totally Not Mark did a video breaking it down once, about how just every single page is so crammed with panels and reaction shots that nothing gets to really breathe. And speaking personally, you have stuff like Goku's first Ultra Instinct scene lasting for like five pages and consisting of him dodging one or two attacks and nothing else, or Gohan's fight against Kafla being almost entirely off-panel despite how much focus was put on how utterly unstoppable Kale was and how they claimed Kafla would be even more powerful since she had Kale's power but also Caulifla's brains. It's just... there are so many characters running around in that arc that it really feels like literally nothing in it gets enough focus to be truly memorable. I've said it before: The climax of the Moro arc was the first time Toyotaro truly made Ultra Instinct feel properly epic.

And yeah, the anime is like half a year straight of fighting and definitely does drag. I'm not gonna claim that the anime's version of the Universe Survival arc was some pristine masterpiece either, but like... when it was good, it was spectacular. That first Ultra Instinct scene that was like five pages in the manga? I think the anime's take on it qualifies as one of the greatest scenes in all of Dragon Ball, Super or otherwise. And while the manga and anime basically have the same ending to the arc, the anime's handling of it was just masterfully directed and firmly cemented Universe Survival as my favorite arc of Super (not a high bar to be fair, but still), whereas in the manga it was more just a "Well that happened".

You realize you're claiming these arcs would feel rushed to a new reader while a new reader themselves is telling you they found the pacing fine and conversely the anime dragged out, right? This isn't hypothetical anymore.

Aside from the few panels of summary at the end of U6, those arcs are paced right in line with many of DB's own. Irrespective of on-page craft which, no argument—Toyotaro is no Toriyama, but no one is.

[Koitsukai]

It seems 2024 is not having any new manga chapters. I'm a bit concerned, I'll admit, but at the same time not having confirmation of it being cancelled is calming.

I just want to have a little more information as to what is actually going on. Is Toyo chilling at some beach like he deserves or is he locked inside working his ass off? is there any material in the works and it's just a matter of when it'll be released or it's all halted?

[Zephyr]

Maybe Toyotaro is watching Drunken Master on repeat in order to alter his brain chemistry to be more like Toriyama's, in preparation for taking up the mantle.

[Makaioshin]

Hopefully he leaves soon to pursue his own creative endeavors apart from the constraints of an IP. It is clear by now he isn't being valued...

[Zephyr]

Hopefully he leaves soon to pursue his own creative endeavors apart from the constraints of an IP. It is clear by now he isn't being valued...

This is true. Perhaps he should pass the torch to a new successor, spread his wings and fly. It would be very interesting to see what sort of original story he would come up with.

[Gt91]

They are waiting for Daima to finish. After that, i think in March, they will probably continue with the manga.

[Mr Baggins]

^ Yeah, my hunch is that it might be some sequel tie-in arc to the events of Daima.

The reality is that V Jump is still reminding us the manga exists and is on break every month, which it probably wouldn't do if it was already cancelled. So I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Vegard Aune]

You realize you're claiming these arcs would feel rushed to a new reader while a new reader themselves is telling you they found the pacing fine and conversely the anime dragged out, right? This isn't hypothetical anymore.

Aside from the few panels of summary at the end of U6, those arcs are paced right in line with many of DB's own. Irrespective of on-page craft which, no argument—Toyotaro is no Toriyama, but no one is.

"I still don't understand why people say the arcs were rushed in the manga," says they.
"This is what people like me mean when we say those arcs were rushed in the manga," says I.

You... do realize that these two perspectives can in fact coexist and that me having watched the anime first doesn't disqualify me from having an opinion on the manga's pacing, right? The Tournament of Power is too long in the anime and too cramped in the manga. I consider neither to be ideal, though of the two I would take the anime. I also think the Future Trunks arc is well paced in the manga (well, even there I think Toyotaro rushed the denouement somewhat) so it's not like I'm just blanket stating that everything shared between the two is too fast in the anime. Go figure that the one adapted arc I generally liked the pacing of... is the arc I just don't like as a story in its own right, though. Well, the one adapted arc before Toyotaro handled Super Hero anyway, which I will absolutely die on the hill that doing so was the right choice and that the arc was just about the right length to make it enjoyable as its own thing.

[nineko]

When you think of it, many of the most recent things in Dragon Ball had awful pacing, from Granolah in the Super manga, to the first 6 (so far) episodes in the Daima anime, it's like they're trying to stretch few ideas as much as possible, like we all used to do when we wrote essays in school.

[Koitsukai]

What if the manga is waiting until Daima is over to comeback because it might involve something related to it? or maybe they don't want to step on the new lore that is being fleshed out, and the plan is to build upon it.