Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 9 - Official Discussion Thread

[Jord]

Even if he's not in his final form, that doesn't exempt Majin Kuu from design criticism. Let's say he has 3 other forms, that doesn't make this form automatically better. Just like how people are free to criticise Cell''s first form for example.

It also doesn't matter to me whether Toriyama designed it or not. An unappealing design is an unappealing design. Being designed by Toriyama doesn't automatically raise or lower it's quality.

[Cipher]

thats why I dont have a problem with Majin Kuu, already saw him like a month and a half ago, and I know he is *SNIP*, but that's pretty obvious even whitout leaks.

A sincere request: You might want to keep that and anything else to yourself in these threads, because I've been watching spoiler-free and that's definitely not what I thought.

[nineko]

Goku does have that Fusion Bug.

The best part about this is that (anime) Vegeta doesn't like worms, I wonder if that's going to be taken into consideration given how everything is interconnected to everything now.

[Majin Buu]

(unsubstantiated rumor chat removed from post)

You not enjoying Daima doesn't give you the right to throw out spoilers and ruin the surprises for people who want to remain unspoiled, no matter how "obvious" it is to you. That wasn't obvious to me and two other people have said likewise.

[Yuji]

Kuu > Boo

If that's the case, what is Gokuu going to doo?

They state that little Boo essence was used to make Koo easier to control. I doubt at the moment he's stronger than any Boo. Tamagamis are easily defeated by SS2 Goku. There's still a large difference between "one shot by SS2" and "defeats SS3."

[LoganForkHands73]

Oh yeah, I also liked how the animators went full sakuga for the scene of Gomah browbeating Degesu. If there's one aspect of Japanese corporate life that they probably know well enough to animate with extreme detail, it's that

[ankokudaishogun]

Kuu > Boo

If that's the case, what is Gokuu going to doo?

Goku does have that Fusion Bug.

Goku and Kuu will merge to become Gokuu

[Mystic-han]

Just to know , was Goku always a dirty dog ? Like did he really not take care of his hygiene?

Sorry for the badly cropped screenshot, I'm using my phone right now.

Sorry for not making it clear , talking about Post Roshi training , this is chapter 3 Goku who Bulma teach him how to take a shower

After that he keeps taking good care of his hygiene

[Chuquita]

He does take care of himself once he gets older. There's a bunch of times Goku's in that tiny tub they keep outside the house, the bigger outdoor tub they get post-Buu, the times in the Room of Spirit and Time, and if you want to go manga-only there's that time on the Capsule spaceship on the way to Namek.

There's never a time post-21st tournament where he makes it seem like a thing he neglects/dislikes so I'm chocking the Daima statement up to flanderization. (Though head-canon wise I think he's just messing with the others in his party. Goku doesn't take showers---because he takes baths instead).

[StaticMania]

The idea that Goku saying "you can skip a shower"...is flanderization is ridiculous.

Because it's not implying that he doesn't take baths/showers, just that he doesn't feel the need to do it every time.

Also context matters, you would rather not make a positive assumption that...since Goku didn't have a change of clothes, he'd be taking a shower just to put dirty clothes back on.

It's a good thing they were in a hotel where the clothes could be washed. The credits shows him washing his clothes in a stream.

---

What is the problem here?

[Magnificent Ponta]

One thing I liked a lot about the episode that I haven't seen much mention of is the variety of beautiful new scenery that just randomly popped up for the first time in the episode:

• the neat verticality of the hotel rising out of the Sea of Darkness (and the surrounding area in both day and night tones)
• Gomah's light and stately office, incorporating motifs of the throne room but with a different general 'vibe'
• the jazzy neon backdrop of the Demon nightclub (it's only there briefly of course, but it's a nice scenic highlight), and
• the lovely variegated pastel tones of the (zombie-)forested enclave; we haven't had much in the way of dense foliage in the Third Demon World so far

All that in addition to returning to Marbah's place, which we got to see a little of in the previous episode but which it's nice to see more of because it's another lovely little backdrop.

***

For all the chatter I've seen about this being a 'filler' episode, this actually had a surprising amount of instrumental plot development:

• The two groups have met but will seemingly be taking different paths through the Demon Realm for the time being
• Gomah has learned of their progress and is dispatching Degesu to intercept them (presumably in the Second Demon World)
• Hybis has the Evil Third Eye
• Majin Kuu has been created and is being dispatched to fight Tamagami 1, setting up a potential rug-pull on the plot

Seems like quite a lot of essential plot elements being pushed through at once for a 'filler' episode. Of course, that's not to say that the way the episode is set up is without its problems, what with us being treated to not one, but three random mook confrontations as the "spine" of the episode - we must be up around 10 such for the series right now. The cute parallels between Vegeta's group and Goku's, for instance, might have been better-received had they come earlier in the series - submerged in among yet more examples of pretty but basically inconsequential action, its impact is muddied a bit because it ratchets up the sense of 'holding-pattern' repetition that a number of viewers are getting.

I feel like this has been something of a symptom of "planned" Dragon Ball in the revival era generally, rather than solely being an issue with Daima as such - there tends to be quite a slow "wind-up" period where lower-level action is (perhaps over-)used to keep the audience entertained until enough plot elements are in place to enable the "pitch" of the main thrust of the narrative, which comes all at once and incorporates more frenetic activity and higher-intensity action at the same time. Usually it all comes out okay in retrospect, but the experience of each instalment on its own can be a bit "Ho-Hum" at times.

***

I find the protestations about Goku's hygiene choices being linked to character regression a bit overdrawn. My feeling is less that Goku is having an issue with bathing as such because he's gone back to being a filthy jungle boy for no reason, and more like he's personally fine either way (he can do it or not as the mood grabs him - bathing is fine; skipping it is also fine), but that he also has little time or patience for the fastidiousness of others; he's not interested in being continually badgered over Panzy's personal hang-ups on the matter if he feels fine just as he is.

And honestly that seems kind of consistent with how he is portrayed in other series also, when confronted fussily by things he doesn't care about either way - for instance, in Super Chapter 17 he responds to Beerus nagging him about his clothes by threatening not to go see Zeno-Sama at all despite being specifically summoned. It's just the other side of his carefreeness - if he feels fine about <insert thing here>, he's not overly concerned about whether or not it bothers other people, and so he has no time for people trying to make their problems with <insert thing here> his problems.

[Mystic-han]

One thing I liked a lot about the episode that I haven't seen much mention of is the variety of beautiful new scenery that just randomly popped up for the first time in the episode:

• the neat verticality of the hotel rising out of the Sea of Darkness (and the surrounding area in both day and night tones)
• Gomah's light and stately office, incorporating motifs of the throne room but with a different general 'vibe'
• the jazzy neon backdrop of the Demon nightclub (it's only there briefly of course, but it's a nice scenic highlight), and
• the lovely variegated pastel tones of the (zombie-)forested enclave; we haven't had much in the way of dense foliage in the Third Demon World so far

All that in addition to returning to Marbah's place, which we got to see a little of in the previous episode but which it's nice to see more of because it's another lovely little backdrop.

***

For all the chatter I've seen about this being a 'filler' episode, this actually had a surprising amount of instrumental plot development:

• The two groups have met but will seemingly be taking different paths through the Demon Realm for the time being
• Gomah has learned of their progress and is dispatching Degesu to intercept them (presumably in the Second Demon World)
• Hybis has the Evil Third Eye
• Majin Kuu has been created and is being dispatched to fight Tamagami 1, setting up a potential rug-pull on the plot

Seems like quite a lot of essential plot elements being pushed through at once for a 'filler' episode. Of course, that's not to say that the way the episode is set up is without its problems, what with us being treated to not one, but three random mook confrontations as the "spine" of the episode - we must be up around 10 such for the series right now. The cute parallels between Vegeta's group and Goku's, for instance, might have been better-received had they come earlier in the series - submerged in among yet more examples of pretty but basically inconsequential action, its impact is muddied a bit because it ratchets up the sense of 'holding-pattern' repetition that a number of viewers are getting.

I feel like this has been something of a symptom of "planned" Dragon Ball in the revival era generally, rather than solely being an issue with Daima as such - there tends to be quite a slow "wind-up" period where lower-level action is (perhaps over-)used to keep the audience entertained until enough plot elements are in place to enable the "pitch" of the main thrust of the narrative, which comes all at once and incorporates more frenetic activity and higher-intensity action at the same time. Usually it all comes out okay in retrospect, but the experience of each instalment on its own can be a bit "Ho-Hum" at times.

***

I find the protestations about Goku's hygiene choices being linked to character regression a bit overdrawn. My feeling is less that Goku is having an issue with bathing as such because he's gone back to being a filthy jungle boy for no reason, and more like he's personally fine either way (he can do it or not as the mood grabs him - bathing is fine; skipping it is also fine), but that he also has little time or patience for the fastidiousness of others; he's not interested in being continually badgered over Panzy's personal hang-ups on the matter if he feels fine just as he is.

And honestly that seems kind of consistent with how he is portrayed in other series also, when confronted fussily by things he doesn't care about either way - for instance, in Super Chapter 17 he responds to Beerus nagging him about his clothes by threatening not to go see Zeno-Sama at all despite being specifically summoned. It's just the other side of his carefreeness - if he feels fine about <insert thing here>, he's not overly concerned about whether or not it bothers other people, and so he has no time for people trying to make their problems with <insert thing here> his problems.

I think it's simpler than that

The joke is Goku being uncivilized savage monkey because it feels funny, no mare thought put into it

[Galan007]

Late to the party here, but I also feel like Kuu's initial design is a bit... Bland, to say the least. They certainly could have done better with it.

That said, I'm sure Kuu will go on some sort of absorption-frenzy in upcoming episodes, so his current design likely won't stick for long. Perhaps he'll absorb Arinsu(so we might get the "she-Kuu" that some people have been waiting for.) Or perhaps he'll absorb Marba(to stack magic or somesuch.) Or maybe he'll absorb Tamagami 1(along with his corresponding Dragon Ball.) Either way, Kuu's aesthetic is bound to change quite a bit in the near future, so I'm not going to get too hungup on his current look. /shrug

Personally, I'd like to see him come to resemble something more akin to Janemba, but I doubt they'll go that route.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I think it's simpler than that

The joke is Goku being uncivilized savage monkey because it feels funny, no mare thought put into it

Goku's relaxed attitude to just about everything (except fighting) is certainly played for laughs in Daima when Panzy nags him about hygiene stuff, but my point is that this is just one manifestation of an extremely basic character trait of Goku's, which is played by direct contrast between Goku's selfish, flabbergasting carefreeness and the more "normal" and reasonable opinions of his compatriots (which he's not interested in). And that's where the opening for comedy principally arises - in that contrast. It happens in multiple examples across the franchise, from Goku repeatedly exposing himself unselfconsciously in public to the chagrin of his comrades, all the way up to him telling a decidedly miffed Kaio "I said I was sorry, why can't you let go of it?" when he gets him killed. That's just who he is.

So in this respect, people in this topic hanging the big claim of "character regression" on Goku's jokey hygiene exchanges with Panzy seems wide of the mark to me, because it both claims too much and ignores too much to be credible. It tries to put a lot on the idea that something about Goku is very different, when what is really different is the company he's keeping in this story, and so what they specifically care about gets foregrounded as a result. It's not just Panzy's princess-like insistence on cleanness and comfort that Goku's lack of interest contrasts with, but also the decorousness of Shin, whom Goku repeatedly discomfits by being unthinkingly rough, crude and unfiltered in various exchanges, and he repeatedly disrupts Glorio's aloof badassery by consistently tripping over the syllables in his name and not bothering to pay attention when corrected. These things are all of a piece with Goku's character, which in that respect is well established.

And with regard to 'uncivilised savagery' per se - one thing I can say with reasonable certainty is that Goku from DB #1 wouldn't be asking anybody for toilet paper if he needed to go.

[MCDaveG]

I don’t get the flack this episode gets.
I feel the “pacing issues” is more akin to weekly release issues, as people expect big things, episodes have 20 minutes and we have to wait for a week…
I had this issue with Star Wars shows, altho those have around 40 episodes, barelly anything happens and there is lot of “mystery box” mysteries that don’t lead to (and then you wait for 3 years for another season and hope you get some answers unless the show gets cancelled).
Daima drops bombs pretty much every week and I am super curious where does it go and feel like I might be kinda sad when it ends.

I think the show is super fun. I have rewatched GT recently and was surprised how horrible written and storyboarded it is except for few iconic moments and episode 57…

Hybis found some eye in the forest… right
I wonder if it is as obvious as it is.
At first, I was bit annoyed by the ship getting stolen again, but I actually found it pretty funny as a running gag.
Demon World is quite funny and reminds me a bit all those goofy visuals from second Dragon Ball movie.
Vegeta is just Vegeta. Now I wonder what they’ll got into, when they got abandoned by Goku ))

I really love the lore dump, altho it makes the Buu arc feel kinda flat now, pretty much just an extended fighting.
I feel like Daima is fun and cool sequel, it’s just bit hard to look at those arcs separately and together now.

Majin Kuu? I didn’t expect that and wonder what he’s capable off. I kinda liked the idea of Saibaimen being sort of bioweapon for Saiyans (growing like vegetables all towards to the theme), but this was interesting.
I feel like I have small trouble with Kuu’s color pallete as I always liked Buu’s design and overall designs in DB for their iconic look and yet being super simple.
Now I wonder how Kid Buu was created and if the base for him was playdoh or bubblegum.

I kinda get people dissing the designs, as from bulkier, sharper and more “realistic” designs, Toriyama went back to the rounded and goofier ones. I don’t mind it in Daima, I am actually super happy, that we are getting up to date designs and not hybrids like in Super. It’s quite jarring even in Sparking Zero, when you have the classic characters against Universe 6 Saiyans for example, with their sticky limb designs and simplified features, while the legacy cast regains the Z/Yamamuro era approach.
I still like the Cell/Buu arc artstyle the most, with heavy dose of nostalgia, but I do embrace the new style of DB finally, without the artists bastardizing it.
I have to say that Toyotaro doing original designs in Super and being influenced by the late 90s/00s artstyle just made a bigger visual mess in comparison to the late Toriyama’s.

With Daima, I just sit down and enjoy, waiting in anticipation each Friday evening for new episode to drop.
I seriously hope it’s not just twenty episodes, even tho I can’t see them hold such quality for long running series.
I like all the good vibes, adventure and actually fun writing that I probably haven’t seen in animated form since Battle Of Gods. The opening and ending mesh really well and I like that it’s not as cheesy like Dokkan or Limit Survivor.

[Mystic-han]

I think it's simpler than that

The joke is Goku being uncivilized savage monkey because it feels funny, no mare thought put into it

Goku's relaxed attitude to just about everything (except fighting) is certainly played for laughs in Daima when Panzy nags him about hygiene stuff, but my point is that this is just one manifestation of an extremely basic character trait of Goku's, which is played by direct contrast between Goku's selfish, flabbergasting carefreeness and the more "normal" and reasonable opinions of his compatriots (which he's not interested in). And that's where the opening for comedy principally arises - in that contrast. It happens in multiple examples across the franchise, from Goku repeatedly exposing himself unselfconsciously in public to the chagrin of his comrades, all the way up to him telling a decidedly miffed Kaio "I said I was sorry, why can't you let go of it?" when he gets him killed. That's just who he is.

So in this respect, people in this topic hanging the big claim of "character regression" on Goku's jokey hygiene exchanges with Panzy seems wide of the mark to me, because it both claims too much and ignores too much to be credible. It tries to put a lot on the idea that something about Goku is very different, when what is really different is the company he's keeping in this story, and so what they specifically care about gets foregrounded as a result. It's not just Panzy's princess-like insistence on cleanness and comfort that Goku's lack of interest contrasts with, but also the decorousness of Shin, whom Goku repeatedly discomfits by being unthinkingly rough, crude and unfiltered in various exchanges, and he repeatedly disrupts Glorio's aloof badassery by consistently tripping over the syllables in his name and not bothering to pay attention when corrected. These things are all of a piece with Goku's character, which in that respect is well established.

And with regard to 'uncivilised savagery' per se - one thing I can say with reasonable certainty is that Goku from DB #1 wouldn't be asking anybody for toilet paper if he needed to go.

Over analyzing a simple joke about Goku being a dirty Wild monkey for laughs

[FinalForumPodcast]

Not a great episode, for me, but oh well.

I just feel like, they finally brought in Vegeta, Bulma, and Piccolo and....didn't even really do any gags or anything with them...they just did the same exact stuff in one episode that Goku and crew did in their first...3? 4? But there was nothing ELSE to it. I wanted Panzy and Bulma to have either a rivalry or click with each other like best buds. I wanted to see Vegeta struggling to get his footing in the Demon Realm and Goku do one of those "Gee, guess it is hard for ya, huh?" kind of things. I wanted to see Piccolo either unravel something interesting or be completely flummoxed by all this and it be a gag.

Instead, it was all kinda...nothing.

We obviously know where the Evil Third Eye is now, and we got the reveal of the likely Big Bad, but as an episode and a story and entertainment, this one fell pretty flat for me.
I don't have a problem with a breather episode after episode 8 was more action-heavy, but it just didn't seem to do anything very fun, funny, or memorable.

[Mystic-han]

Did I miss something?

Why is Bulma fine with Demon Realm environment?

I thought the atmosphere has heavy density it made Goku unable to travel around with flight

[StaticMania]

It seems to just be air resistance...and the "gas" that hasn't been mentioned since episode 3.

Which is consistent. He didn't comment on the heavy air until he started flying or throwing punches.

[nineko]

Why is Bulma fine with Demon Realm environment?

I thought the atmosphere has heavy density it made Goku unable to travel around with flight

I asked the same thing back in episode 7, but nobody replied.