Toyble DBAF [June 9, 2012] Vol 4 HD release complete

[macho_man]

Hello! Can anyone help? I am looking for Toyble's DBAF in English... Does someone know where to find or can upload for me? Thx!

Here up to volume 5!

https://mangadex.org/title/e0d3f82d-eca ... on-ball-af

[macho_man]

"toyblog" was toyble's former web diary from 2006 to 2014.
I'm sharing the "toyblog" contents finally translated: I've used Deepl, study and passion so feel free to check yourself from the clickable links to the sources.
Get ready for a journey that will throw you back in time and will give you new insights into being an artist wannabe and a Dragon Ball fan:
https://mega.nz/file/jMFShIzC#KQsQdLoCk ... r6Y0BGWtYc

[Shintoki]

so is it fair to say that black is loosely inspired by xicor?

[macho_man]

so is it fair to say that black is loosely inspired by xicor?

Yeah, everybody knows.

[Magnificent Ponta]

so is it fair to say that black is loosely inspired by xicor?

Yeah, everybody knows.

I'm not sure it can be as cut-and-dried as that, considering that Goku Black was Toriyama's idea, not Toyotarou's, and Toriyama references Ultraman and Kamen Rider as the ultimate inspiration for attempting a "Fake Goku" character in Goku Black.

Now, by all means Toyotarou's AF work depicting Xicor as a Goku-adjacent baddie might have some bearing on the kind of "vibe" that he brought to how he chose to depict Black on the page, but unless I'm missing something it's tough to really call that "inspiration" for the character of Goku Black, "loose" or otherwise. Once you get to that level of "inspiration", the claim becomes very nebulous, owing to the simple fact that depicting an evil Goku-ish character is a pretty straightforward brief on well-trodden ground, which inevitably ends up looking pretty same-y (both conceptually and aesthetically) whoever does it. And I think we can establish that with a degree of confidence.

For instance, there is a somewhat relevant work in a Doujinshi compilation series in which Toyotarou actually contributed his late DBAF specials - the "Studio Tomorrow" project "Super DB" (headed up by Naoyuki Omada). Volume 1 received Toyotarou's first contribution - and among the works in that publication is a modified version of Omada's own "Sonogono DB" (with new art by one "Ando Roido", replacing Omada's own art), set after the main run of Dragon Ball and centring around the idea of Goku receiving head trauma in a fight with Uub and reverting to his evil Saiyan persona. Omada's story got remade again from 2014 onwards, with Youngjijii collaborating as the artist this time - here's an example of how Goku looks there. So we get an evil Son Goku whose basic 'look' and expressions look pretty much just like Black's, some years before Black appears in Dragon Ball Super.

So, whether Toyotarou was familiar with this specific, latest iteration of the work or not (he may have been, since he links to Omada's Blog in his own, but my point isn't in trying to posit any direct inspiration), it's nevertheless clear that the basic idea was already circulating in fan circles that Toyotarou interacted with and in publications Toyotarou was contributing to, and was being depicted quite straightforwardly and looking pretty same-y, well before Dragon Ball Super. With that in mind, Xicor seems (beyond the fact that he's Toyotarou's own character) kind of neither here nor there.

[Hellspawn28]

Xicor and Black feel nothing alike. Not to mention, Xicor is not Toyable's original creation. He is based off of other fan fiction ideas from the 00s.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Xicor is not Toyable's original creation. He is based off of other fan fiction ideas from the 00s.

Ah, interesting! I didn't know this particular detail; I'd always just assumed he belonged to that story. I'd say that pretty much sinks the idea of any meaningful connection, then. Thanks for the info!

[Hellspawn28]

I remember hearing Xicor's name back in 2003 or 2004. The stuff in Toyble's AF is taken from other fan fiction stories too like Xicor being half Kai and Saiyan. As well with West Kaioshin being a villain too.

[Shintoki]

Xicor and Black feel nothing alike. Not to mention, Xicor is not Toyable's original creation. He is based off of other fan fiction ideas from the 00s.
I remember hearing Xicor's name back in 2003 or 2004. The stuff in Toyble's AF is taken from other fan fiction stories too like Xicor being half Kai and Saiyan. As well with West Kaioshin being a villain too.

That’s quite the hornet’s nest of a path to take, because once you dive into that rabbit hole, you’ll find yourself tracing back endlessly—until you land at the ground zero where Tablos’ AF was the spark that ignited the powder keg, leading to a whirlwind of gaslighting and frenzy trolling by fans on other fans that convinced many people in the 2000s that AF was a legitimate sequel, fueling the widespread belief that it was real.

https://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/int ... interview/


The real bombshell? The character everyone thought was Super Saiyan 5 Goku wasn’t Goku, wasn’t a Super Saiyan 5, and wasn’t even tied to a post-GT or after future storyline, as so many had imagined. lmao

David [Tablos]: The acronym ‘AF’ means ‘Alternative Future’. The story unfolds in the alternative future of Trunks, where Goku dies from the heart virus and the rest of the protagonists are annihilated by Artificial Humans #17 and #18.

many of us (including me) been gaslit back then, hhhhhhhhhhhhh

so is it fair to say that black is loosely inspired by xicor?

Yeah, everybody knows.

I'm not sure it can be as cut-and-dried as that, considering that Goku Black was Toriyama's idea, not Toyotarou's, and Toriyama references Ultraman and Kamen Rider as the ultimate inspiration for attempting a "Fake Goku" character in Goku Black.

Now, by all means Toyotarou's AF work depicting Xicor as a Goku-adjacent baddie might have some bearing on the kind of "vibe" that he brought to how he chose to depict Black on the page, but unless I'm missing something it's tough to really call that "inspiration" for the character of Goku Black, "loose" or otherwise. Once you get to that level of "inspiration", the claim becomes very nebulous, owing to the simple fact that depicting an evil Goku-ish character is a pretty straightforward brief on well-trodden ground, which inevitably ends up looking pretty same-y (both conceptually and aesthetically) whoever does it. And I think we can establish that with a degree of confidence.

For instance, there is a somewhat relevant work in a Doujinshi compilation series in which Toyotarou actually contributed his late DBAF specials - the "Studio Tomorrow" project "Super DB" (headed up by Naoyuki Omada). Volume 1 received Toyotarou's first contribution - and among the works in that publication is a modified version of Omada's own "Sonogono DB" (with new art by one "Ando Roido", replacing Omada's own art), set after the main run of Dragon Ball and centring around the idea of Goku receiving head trauma in a fight with Uub and reverting to his evil Saiyan persona. Omada's story got remade again from 2014 onwards, with Youngjijii collaborating as the artist this time - here's an example of how Goku looks there. So we get an evil Son Goku whose basic 'look' and expressions look pretty much just like Black's, some years before Black appears in Dragon Ball Super.

So, whether Toyotarou was familiar with this specific, latest iteration of the work or not (he may have been, since he links to Omada's Blog in his own, but my point isn't in trying to posit any direct inspiration), it's nevertheless clear that the basic idea was already circulating in fan circles that Toyotarou interacted with and in publications Toyotarou was contributing to, and was being depicted quite straightforwardly and looking pretty same-y, well before Dragon Ball Super. With that in mind, Xicor seems (beyond the fact that he's Toyotarou's own character) kind of neither here nor there.

The broadness of the "evil Goku" concept might make it feel like an already well-worn territory, but when you look beyond the vague idea and concept of it, and delve into the specifics of Xicor then you'd find out how much he stand out in ways that align closely with Goku Black unlike turles. Turles might have "patented" the evil Goku archetype in the official story long before internet fanfiction, but Xicor’s unique traits—his godly/Saiyan hybrid origins, sinister calm demeanor and character and being cloned after Goku's, and his aesthetic details like a dark, imposing presence—bear striking resemblance to Black.

Given Toyotarou's history with AF, these overlaps feel less coincidental and more like an unspoken throughline connecting his fan creations to his official contributions. It’s not simply that Black echoes the trope of an “evil Goku,” but that Xicor’s design and character groundwork appear intricately tied to what Black would somewhat become, lending credibility to claims of inspiration here, at least loosely so.

and iirc, toyotaro was aware of other AF fan creations and even commented at one of them before
https://youtu.be/voweMvpzB0c?si=fRJOsw5PAxikSzXu&t=880

I think there's a well case to be made about this, especially given how much Toyotarou influenced Toriyama during the Future Saga arc. For instance, Toyotarou played a key role in bringing back Vegito (which Toei's clearly liked and used it as well) and in changing the way Zamasu’s defeat unfolded—originally, Toriyama had envisioned him being taken out by just two Super Saiyan Blue after all. The manga, after all, is partially based on Toyotarou’s interpretation of Toriyama’s manuscript, as the adaptations of the manuscript does show more often than not notable interpretive and OC alterations while retaining the same key notes of events.

Toyotarou’s personal creative input could have been injected into black and recycled whatever toyotaro shelved for xicor to inspire him for his character mannerism, background and resemblence. he is notablly different from zamasu after all (albeit still sharing the same objective but that's a talk for another day)

[miguelnuva1]

I remember hearing Xicor's name back in 2003 or 2004. The stuff in Toyble's AF is taken from other fan fiction stories too like Xicor being half Kai and Saiyan. As well with West Kaioshin being a villain too.

Xicor was from 2003 when the SS5 picture came out. Weat Kaioshin being evil and the villian was Toyble's idea.

Xicor's orginal orgin was a Goddess pretended to be Chichi in Goku's dream and slept Goku. 120 years past and we get to end of GT where Xicor is either a villian or sent to train under Goku by his mother. Both were options that were told for his origin in the old af days.

Xicor and Goku were both suppose to be Super Saiyan 5 however.