Kai Episode 77 (17th October 2010)

[Ashy-kun]

Is it me or did I see Gohan go SSJ in the Next episode preview?
It's too early for that to be happening.

I think it's possibly a snippet of filler. There's a bit during the Vegeta-Cell fight where we see Gokuu and Gohan trying out the Super Saiyan transformations. It's when Gokuu is telling Gohan to imagine something like the death of himself or Piccolo, and Gohan has a little glimpse of transformation, before he falls out of it again. This is all before Cell changes into his Complete Form, and Gohan finally becomes a Super Saiyan for real.

Meanwhile, I'm liking the "Chikushou" at the end of the preview. It is indeed more on form for Cell than he has been for the last few episodes. "Cell's Raging Feelings of Anguish", indeed. (Yes, I know that's not what the translation is, from Kanzentai's Mr. Herms and Mr. Heath, and rather my own. I'm just contrary, like that.)

[andrewtuell1991]

Is it me or did I see Gohan go SSJ in the Next episode preview?
It's too early for that to be happening.

I think it's possibly a snippet of filler. There's a bit during the Vegeta-Cell fight where we see Gokuu and Gohan trying out the Super Saiyan transformations. It's when Gokuu is telling Gohan to imagine something like the death of himself or Piccolo, and Gohan has a little glimpse of transformation, before he falls out of it again. This is all before Cell changes into his Complete Form, and Gohan finally becomes a Super Saiyan for real.

Ah, you're right. It's from episode 156, where Gohan imagines Freeza killing everyone and turns SSJ for a split-second. However that scene isn't filler it's from Chapter 378 pages 9 and 10 and it's supposed to take place BEFORE Vegeta's "I am Super Vegeta" boast. Why they messed up the order even though it was right in the manga and Z, I can't seem figure out

[dbgtFO]

Am I the only one who thinks, that the music played after Goku & Gohan enters the ROSAT sounds vaguely similar to the classical piece Bolero, which featured in an albeit shorter version in Digimon?
I liked the episode, even though it had its ups and downs animation wise.

[Cold Skin]

Too bad that the music for Dragon Ball Z is actually better than the one for Kai (though this is not my personal opinion, just a fact).

No, that is entirely your personal opinion.
I am enjoying the music in Kai just as much as I did the old 'Z' music.

My bad, I did express myself in a very clumsy way. I actually meant that the music for Kai is better to me than the music in Z, but that I realise it is not what most other people feel like, hence the fact that I'm worried that the Kai music might not make it to the "DRAGON BALL Music To Be Remembered Forever And Maybe Someday Used In Games And New Animated Movies" category. The fact that they use the Cha-La Head-Cha-La singer in the new games instead of the Dragon Soul singer is already a bad sign as it is. It seems that if a musical style is to be kept in upcoming productions related to Dragon Ball other than Kai, it will likely be the Z style that will be chosen over the Kai style, which doesn't suit my personal opinion, but I guess suits the general opinion... So that's what I meant in that clumsy quote, sorry I said it wrong.

[Lum-Chan~]

Excellent episode. I loved the two new tracks this episode had and how much Vegeta kicked Cell's ass. All good stuff.

[RazorX]

The new music is nice and keeps with the style of the themes introduced in the Trunks saga and built up from there. I love the use of the music piece which was first heard when Trunks hands his sword over to King Cold.

[MR.Mark]

I love the use of the music piece which was first heard when Trunks hands his sword over to King Cold.

Yes, that's one of my all time fav tracks, classic stand off music.

[Savage68]

The Super Vegeta/2nd form Cell fight was one of the most entertaining fights.

It was even less entertaining and even more boring than Goku vs. Freeza.

Vegetto vs. Buu, for example, was a one-way godstomp, but at least it was comical. Goku vs. Freeza was stretched out to hell, but at least there was a good deal of back-and-forth going on there. Vegeta's battle against Semi-Cell was just terribly lacking of substance.

[Kendamu]

Too bad that the music for Dragon Ball Z is actually better than the one for Kai (though this is not my personal opinion, just a fact).

No, that is entirely your personal opinion.
I am enjoying the music in Kai just as much as I did the old 'Z' music.

My bad, I did express myself in a very clumsy way. I actually meant that the music for Kai is better to me than the music in Z, but that I realise it is not what most other people feel like, hence the fact that I'm worried that the Kai music might not make it to the "DRAGON BALL Music To Be Remembered Forever And Maybe Someday Used In Games And New Animated Movies" category. The fact that they use the Cha-La Head-Cha-La singer in the new games instead of the Dragon Soul singer is already a bad sign as it is. It seems that if a musical style is to be kept in upcoming productions related to Dragon Ball other than Kai, it will likely be the Z style that will be chosen over the Kai style, which doesn't suit my personal opinion, but I guess suits the general opinion... So that's what I meant in that clumsy quote, sorry I said it wrong.

I'm not sure that the Kai music will be completely forgotten. Remember, there are adults today who remember the Faulconer music or the video game music the way other adults remember the real DBZ OST. Today, there are kids who are getting their first taste of Dragonball through Kai. It's likely that the ones who grow up to be fans as adults will remember the Kai music.

[AoiKageNoChikara]

Too bad that the music for Dragon Ball Z is actually better than the one for Kai (though this is not my personal opinion, just a fact).

No, that is entirely your personal opinion.
I am enjoying the music in Kai just as much as I did the old 'Z' music.

My bad, I did express myself in a very clumsy way. I actually meant that the music for Kai is better to me than the music in Z, but that I realise it is not what most other people feel like, hence the fact that I'm worried that the Kai music might not make it to the "DRAGON BALL Music To Be Remembered Forever And Maybe Someday Used In Games And New Animated Movies" category. The fact that they use the Cha-La Head-Cha-La singer in the new games instead of the Dragon Soul singer is already a bad sign as it is. It seems that if a musical style is to be kept in upcoming productions related to Dragon Ball other than Kai, it will likely be the Z style that will be chosen over the Kai style, which doesn't suit my personal opinion, but I guess suits the general opinion... So that's what I meant in that clumsy quote, sorry I said it wrong.

I think people just give a crap about the Soundtrack for nostalgia or ignorance (when they close themselves to the soundtrack or to Kai) I enjoy quite a bit THe Dbkai Soundtrack and for me it's a million times better than Kikuchi's score for me, the problem is the same as with Faulconer Vs Kikuchi, people watched all the frigging episodes with that score, they grow to love it, they grow to know it, therefore when they listen to the other one they get shocked, I personally didn't had it rough with Kai's Soundtrack, I was getting ready to listen to some one piece, konjiki no gashbell, naruto-like score, but I was sure wrong Kai has a distinctive sound from all of them, I simply love it, and let's be serius, it does scream DRAGONBALL HAS GONE JOHN WILLIAMS!! but it still retains some of the core dragon ball feeling, like some of the musical instruments used for Z are used for Kai like the Trumpets. Also the Violins and Chellos even Harmonic Choir are beign used better, I might get stoned for this but every time I listen to Dragon ball now I just simply listen to Doraemon or mazinger or any score from kikuchi listen to this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YshmaY-K ... =1&index=7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnuGd0V6 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhG1Sgw8 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o27JQla9 ... re=related

THough they have their diferences, it all sounds like the same, I know you've gotta have your special scent in your music but geez I can clearly Notice the Diference between Danny Elfman's Spiderman, Edward ScissorHands and Alice in Wonderland, meaning Kikuchi's Db doesn't have it's own style (Except for the Buu saga since it's atleast got an amazing distinctive in style, you can tell it's dragon ball but there's a huge diference) but it's exactly the same as UFO Robot Grendizer, Tiger Mask, Doraemon, Mazinger Ect, And what I like from kai is that it's finally got it's own style, While in all of Kikuchi's Scores you can hear that ackward Twoink twoink sound in many pieces, Kai's got this Elegant BANG! of Percussion, Air and Strings, I haven't really heard so constant use of it in any anime Soundtrack I've heard, As a Sample, I made My cousin (who's a big fan of Movies soundtrack from Hans Zimmer, John Williams, ect) listen to the Kai OST VOL,1, She loved it, later I made her listen to the Kai Soundtrack Vol.3, but I didn't tell her it was from Kai, then When she Heard "One hit to victory" She said "It's Kai!". I think that's a great reaction.

Now don't get me wrong, I love Kikuchi's Score, but In my Opinion, There's no comparation with Kai's Soundtrack, for me it's richer, more elegant, better written and Better Orchestrated. Themes like "A Migthy Foe" "One Hit To Victory" "The Victor's Dance" "Heroic Face off" have no comparation, Also I Don't really care Kenji's Sometimes a CopyCat, He's a great Composer Still, and who Cares if he copies, James Horner Ripped John Debney's Passion of the Christ "Crucifixion's Second Half" for making his "Kung Fu Heaven" in his Karate kid (2010) Also I've Heard Hans Zimmer's "This Land" From the Lion King in Xiaolin Soccer's "Victory"

[Cold Skin]

I think people just give a crap about the Soundtrack for nostalgia or ignorance (when they close themselves to the soundtrack or to Kai) I enjoy quite a bit THe Dbkai Soundtrack and for me it's a million times better than Kikuchi's score for me, the problem is the same as with Faulconer Vs Kikuchi, people watched all the frigging episodes with that score, they grow to love it, they grow to know it, therefore when they listen to the other one they get shocked, I personally didn't had it rough with Kai's Soundtrack, I was getting ready to listen to some one piece, konjiki no gashbell, naruto-like score, but I was sure wrong Kai has a distinctive sound from all of them, I simply love it, and let's be serius, it does scream DRAGONBALL HAS GONE JOHN WILLIAMS!! but it still retains some of the core dragon ball feeling, like some of the musical instruments used for Z are used for Kai like the Trumpets. Also the Violins and Chellos even Harmonic Choir are beign used better, I might get stoned for this but every time I listen to Dragon ball now I just simply listen to Doraemon or mazinger or any score from kikuchi listen to this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YshmaY-K ... =1&index=7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnuGd0V6 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhG1Sgw8 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o27JQla9 ... re=related

THough they have their diferences, it all sounds like the same, I know you've gotta have your special scent in your music but geez I can clearly Notice the Diference between Danny Elfman's Spiderman, Edward ScissorHands and Alice in Wonderland, meaning Kikuchi's Db doesn't have it's own style (Except for the Buu saga since it's atleast got an amazing distinctive in style, you can tell it's dragon ball but there's a huge diference) but it's exactly the same as UFO Robot Grendizer, Tiger Mask, Doraemon, Mazinger Ect, And what I like from kai is that it's finally got it's own style, While in all of Kikuchi's Scores you can hear that ackward Twoink twoink sound in many pieces, Kai's got this Elegant BANG! of Percussion, Air and Strings, I haven't really heard so constant use of it in any anime Soundtrack I've heard, As a Sample, I made My cousin (who's a big fan of Movies soundtrack from Hans Zimmer, John Williams, ect) listen to the Kai OST VOL,1, She loved it, later I made her listen to the Kai Soundtrack Vol.3, but I didn't tell her it was from Kai, then When she Heard "One hit to victory" She said "It's Kai!". I think that's a great reaction.

Now don't get me wrong, I love Kikuchi's Score, but In my Opinion, There's no comparation with Kai's Soundtrack, for me it's richer, more elegant, better written and Better Orchestrated. Themes like "A Migthy Foe" "One Hit To Victory" "The Victor's Dance" "Heroic Face off" have no comparation, Also I Don't really care Kenji's Sometimes a CopyCat, He's a great Composer Still, and who Cares if he copies, James Horner Ripped John Debney's Passion of the Christ "Crucifixion's Second Half" for making his "Kung Fu Heaven" in his Karate kid (2010) Also I've Heard Hans Zimmer's "This Land" From the Lion King in Xiaolin Soccer's "Victory"

You basically detailed my whole opinion on the subject, and you did it very well, that's amazing! Those tracks you mention are among my favorites too and they are perfect examples of what makes the Kai soundtrack so great to me, I always thought A Mighty Foe was very cinematic in style, Heroic Face-off is just an epic winner and One Hit To Victory is the ultimate Dragon Ball background track to me right now, clearly meaning "decisive moment like never before"... But I was also amazed by the emotion of A Grim Fate, or the perfectly adapted android theme with all this mechanic sound, or the "scary ambiance" when Cell liquefies his victim in front of Piccolo with the drum going "boom... boom-boom... boom... boom-boom..." and all... All of this to say, many tracks in Kai are simply amazing and transfer the right emotion with beauty and an overwhelming intensity, and it's nice to see people can perceive it.

[T Pac]

Well at the beginning the background music left a lot to be desired. I still enjoyed a lot of the tracks, but I didn't love the arrangement within the show, and the better tracks recycled too much.

There's been a gigantic step up in the music as the show as progressed -- and it's just been phenomenal during the entire Android Saga.

In particular, I agree with the praise for the Trunks vs. Cold scene. Might be my favorite scored scene from any version of DB.