How strong is Goku Jr?

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How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:18 pm

I was not sure if this thread was done or not, but how strong do you think Goku Jr was in GT: Hero Legacy? Would you say he was weaker or stronger then DB Kid Goku?
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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by Zionist » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:21 pm

He was a Super Saiyan.....obviously he was stronger than Kid Goku. But if it's an an exact power level you're looking for, sorry, that I can't provide.
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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by Savage68 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:41 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:Would you say he was weaker or stronger then DB Kid Goku?
..........stronger. But like Zionist is saying, there's no real way in Hades for us to gauge Goku Junior's strength.

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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by B » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:54 pm

I would wager he's somewhere between Farmer With Shotgun and Goku at the beginning. Does he actually do any fighting besides one-shotting Yao as a Super Saiyan? I forget.

But yeah, if you assume his actual battle power is a number between 5 and 10, as Super Saiyan, which is a 50X increase, he is of course stronger than Goku. If you're generous and say it's 9, he's slightly stronger than Goku and Piccolo when they fight Raditz.
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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by Nazi Cola » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:24 pm

I'll be generous and say around Kid Goku at the 22nd TB, while Super Saiyan, so pretty low without.
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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by Zionist » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:28 pm

Nazi Cola wrote:I'll be generous and say around Kid Goku at the 22nd TB, while Super Saiyan, so pretty low without.
Even with a Base Power level of 5, with Super Saiyan he would be stronger than 22nd Budokai Tien and Goku. Do remember the initial Multiplier is X's 50.
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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by Savage68 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:30 pm

"22nd Budokai Goku" is being generous? Remember, kids in this series are stronger and stronger and stronger with each generation. Even 14-year-old Pan in GT is stronger than flippin' Dr. Gero.

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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by Nazi Cola » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:48 am

Okay, I don't know what I'm talking about. But he's got such little Saiyan blood in him, I don't think he could utilize that "hybrid powa" like everyone else. Pan was 1/8 or 1/16, can't remember, and she was strong, but I think you're gonna start losing that hybrid potential once the Saiyan blood percentage reaches a certain fraction.
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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by dbgtFO » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:05 am

Nazi Cola wrote:Okay, I don't know what I'm talking about. But he's got such little Saiyan blood in him, I don't think he could utilize that "hybrid powa" like everyone else. Pan was 1/8 or 1/16, can't remember, and she was strong, but I think you're gonna start losing that hybrid potential once the Saiyan blood percentage reaches a certain fraction.
He has SSJ, that should tell you he has a lot Saiyan potential just to have that form in the first place.

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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:18 am

Nazi Cola wrote:Okay, I don't know what I'm talking about. But he's got such little Saiyan blood in him, I don't think he could utilize that "hybrid powa" like everyone else. Pan was 1/8 or 1/16, can't remember, and she was strong, but I think you're gonna start losing that hybrid potential once the Saiyan blood percentage reaches a certain fraction.
Not in the Tori-verse.
After everything he's done and all the faux explanations he's given for things, like how Piccolo can survive off of water from an enzyme or how Goten and Trunks didn't have tails because it was a recessive Saiyan gene (don't remember if the last one was actually said by him or if it is fanwank I heard somewhere), do you really think genetics work the same in his stories as they do in real life?

BTW, Gohan had 1/2 Saiyan blood, Pan had 1/4, and Goku Jr. would have 1/16 since he is Pan's grandson.
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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by Godo » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:21 am

I bet that his power works like Gohan's "hidden power" bursts in the beginning. Thus, he isn't that strong to begin with, since he draws out that hidden power in times of crisis.

How strong would Goku Jr. be in his fight against Vegeta Jr. then? I bet around Goten and Trunks' level when they fought in the tournament.
Funny thing, that fight is more or less a copy of the Goten vs. Trunks fight. I don't know if it was intentional though.

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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by SSJ4_Zankuto » Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:14 am

I think Goku Jr's power level is around 1,000,000 - 2,000,000 at least so he could be weaker then 100% Frieza while as Super Saiya-jin.

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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:02 am

I think he's stronger than Kid Goku from Dragon Ball. They do say that mixing races makes the child stronger, hence Gohan. Now Goku Jr. is like a super dilute form to the point of which his Saiyan blood is almost non-existent (but not enough for him to turn Super Saiyan according to Toei), but still. Pan was a quarter Saiyan and I'm pretty sure that she was stronger than Goku from DB (Pan from the last episodes of DBZ) or maybe even Gohan in the beginning of the series. So it's possible that Goku Jr. was stronger than child Goku from Dragon Ball especially because Pan was training him. His whimpiness had nothing to do with power.

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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by Cipher » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:42 pm

Savage68 wrote:"22nd Budokai Goku" is being generous? Remember, kids in this series are stronger and stronger and stronger with each generation. Even 14-year-old Pan in GT is stronger than flippin' Dr. Gero.
I don't think it's ever indicated that she's stronger. She caught him off-guard with a kick and managed to get him in a hold until Giru could threaten him with his weaponry. Being able to hold him in a choke-hold doesn't necessarily mean she could take him in a fight.

But anyway, Super Saiyan Goku Jr. being around Piccolo Daimou era power sounds about right. I think it's rather generous to even put his untrained base form on the same level as Farmer with Shotgun, but whatever.

By the fight with Vegeta Jr., who knows? They're obviously much stronger, and their speed and use of bukujutsu seems to be on par with later Z characters. Around the level of Goten and Trunks at the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai might not be a bad guess.

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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by Savage68 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:57 pm

Cipher wrote:She caught him off-guard with a kick and managed to get him in a hold until Giru could threaten him with his weaponry. Being able to hold him in a choke-hold doesn't necessarily mean she could take him in a fight.
He was struggling to break free from her hold for about 25 seconds, and could hardly budge. The scene's giving us the impression that he's weaker than she is.

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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:07 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
Nazi Cola wrote:Okay, I don't know what I'm talking about. But he's got such little Saiyan blood in him, I don't think he could utilize that "hybrid powa" like everyone else. Pan was 1/8 or 1/16, can't remember, and she was strong, but I think you're gonna start losing that hybrid potential once the Saiyan blood percentage reaches a certain fraction.
Not in the Tori-verse.
After everything he's done and all the faux explanations he's given for things, like how Piccolo can survive off of water from an enzyme or how Goten and Trunks didn't have tails because it was a recessive Saiyan gene (don't remember if the last one was actually said by him or if it is fanwank I heard somewhere), do you really think genetics work the same in his stories as they do in real life?

BTW, Gohan had 1/2 Saiyan blood, Pan had 1/4, and Goku Jr. would have 1/16 since he is Pan's grandson.
Toriyama did say the thing about recessive genes. See Shonen Jump issue #1.
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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by The Tori-bot » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:17 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:BTW, Gohan had 1/2 Saiyan blood, Pan had 1/4, and Goku Jr. would have 1/16 since he is Pan's grandson.
Isn't she his great-great-grandmother? So he would only be at 1/64.

... 1/64... there were 64 episodes of GT... and Goku Jr appears in episode 64...

... :shock:
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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by Bussani » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:06 pm

The Tori-bot wrote:
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:BTW, Gohan had 1/2 Saiyan blood, Pan had 1/4, and Goku Jr. would have 1/16 since he is Pan's grandson.
Isn't she his great-great-grandmother? So he would only be at 1/64.
That is correct. It seems logical that the dwindling Saiyan genetics would have an effect on their potential--personally I believe that the 1/2 hybrids get the best of the two races and that's why they have such potential--but as TheDevilsCorpse says, there's nothing in the guides to support it. Even Pan's Daizenshuu bio only says that she hasn't become an Oozaru or Super Saiyan, not that her 1/4 blood makes it impossible or harder.
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:After everything he's done and all the faux explanations he's given for things, like how Piccolo can survive off of water from an enzyme or how Goten and Trunks didn't have tails because it was a recessive Saiyan gene (don't remember if the last one was actually said by him or if it is fanwank I heard somewhere), do you really think genetics work the same in his stories as they do in real life?
I wonder if the "Namekians surviving on water" thing is really that strange... I mean, they'd have to be some pretty special enzymes, but if you could get the hydrogen out of the water, then you have a pretty efficient energy source right there. The recessive gene thing is definitely Toriyama not knowing genetics very well, unless you do some severe fanwanking to make it make sense.
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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:02 pm

Bussani wrote:
The Tori-bot wrote:
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:BTW, Gohan had 1/2 Saiyan blood, Pan had 1/4, and Goku Jr. would have 1/16 since he is Pan's grandson.
Isn't she his great-great-grandmother? So he would only be at 1/64.
That is correct. It seems logical that the dwindling Saiyan genetics would have an effect on their potential--personally I believe that the 1/2 hybrids get the best of the two races and that's why they have such potential--but as TheDevilsCorpse says, there's nothing in the guides to support it. Even Pan's Daizenshuu bio only says that she hasn't become an Oozaru or Super Saiyan, not that her 1/4 blood makes it impossible or harder.
Hm, so he's Pan's great-great-grandson? I've never watched the GT special outside the dub when it was first released, can't seem to make myself watch it again. xD

As far as we know, even descendants as far down the line as DBO can still transform normally, having to gather the Dragon Balls to wish for the form may simply be a gameplay mechanic to make you play the game and actually work to get stronger than other players. The same way Dante in DMC can transform with his Devil Trigger at will, but during gameplay you can only transform when you have enough runes (assuming you aren't using a Super costume).
Bussani wrote:I wonder if the "Namekians surviving on water" thing is really that strange... I mean, they'd have to be some pretty special enzymes, but if you could get the hydrogen out of the water, then you have a pretty efficient energy source right there. The recessive gene thing is definitely Toriyama not knowing genetics very well, unless you do some severe fanwanking to make it make sense.
I understand how it could theoretically work, but it still seems pretty far out there to me...though not completely out of the realm of possibility. I just think there could have been a much easier and more logical answer, but then again, knowing Toriyama, it was much easier for him just to say its because of an enzyme without much thought.
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Re: How strong is Goku Jr?

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:43 pm

I think by the time he fought Vegeta Jr. in the Tenka'ichi he was probably in the early millions. Having inherited his great great grandpa's name and look I'm willing to bet he inherited his fighting spirit.
Savage68 wrote:Even 14-year-old Pan in GT is stronger than flippin' Dr. Gero.
She's nine and ten in Dragon Ball GT. :p
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