Mutaito - Title or Name?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Is "Mutaito" the character's title rather than his name, like "Muten Roshi"? Because it essentially translates to "a great authority of the martial arts" and "Muten Roshi" roughly translates out to "an old man who teaches".

[Daimo-Rukiri]

I believe it's just a title as no name is given to him, it is possible that it's his actual name.
If I can find my Daizenshuu's I'll defiantly tell ya.

[Herms]

There's nothing that gives his real name, if he has one. "Mutaito" does sound more like a title than a name, but maybe he just had very eccentric and far-seeing parents.

Muten Roshi roughly translates out to "an old man who teaches".

It's more like "martial-arts-heaven old teacher" (...yeah...). First, roushi is an actual word meaning "old teacher". Meanwhile, muten is as far as I can tell just two impressive kanji thrown together: mu, referring to all things military and martial arts related, and ten, referring to the heavens. In DB Forever, Toriyama says that he didn't intend the name to have any great meaning, and that it was just supposed to sound suitably impressive.

Is it his real name or just a title? I don't think we really know. It's kinda hard to believe his parents named him that, but maybe it's a name he took on later in life rather than a title. Of course, what real difference is there between taking on a title and just renaming yourself "super-awesome martial arts guy" midway through your life? Either way, "Muten Roshi" is what he has on his driver's license, so maybe that points to it being his legal name at least.

[Fox666]

Well, having a meaning doesn't mean it's a special title. It's rather common in mangas for names having some meaning, I.e. Naruto means wirlpool

[Daimo-Rukiri]

It's the same thing for master roshi, lol kinda funny when watching the dub when they say master roshi(old teacher) but Muten Roshi is his name at least that's what's on his Drivers License.

Mutaito is something you'll have to ask Akira about.

[Herms]

Well, having a meaning doesn't mean it's a special title. It's rather common in mangas for names having some meaning, I.e. Naruto means wirlpool

Eh, that's not really the same thing. Roushi and taito are both actual titles, so the fact that they're part of these characters' names suggests that those names are titles too. I mean, if I introduce a character called "Super Doctor" into a story, you wouldn't typically assume that was his real name, would you?

[Perfect]

It doesn't seem that far-fetched to have that type of name, given other characters names...

[kei17]

It's more like "martial-arts-heaven old teacher" (...yeah...). First, roushi is an actual word meaning "old teacher". Meanwhile, muten is as far as I can tell just two impressive kanji thrown together: mu, referring to all things military and martial arts related, and ten, referring to the heavens. In DB Forever, Toriyama says that he didn't intend the name to have any great meaning, and that it was just supposed to sound suitably impressive.

That ten doesn't mean "heaven", I think. "top" would be better.

[Shoryuken]

It's more like "martial-arts-heaven old teacher" (...yeah...). First, roushi is an actual word meaning "old teacher". Meanwhile, muten is as far as I can tell just two impressive kanji thrown together: mu, referring to all things military and martial arts related, and ten, referring to the heavens. In DB Forever, Toriyama says that he didn't intend the name to have any great meaning, and that it was just supposed to sound suitably impressive.

That ten doesn't mean "heaven", I think. "top" would be better.

天 (Ten) does mean heaven and in addition imperial and sky. Top would be 上 (Jou).

[kei17]

That ten doesn't mean "heaven", I think. "top" would be better.

天 (Ten) does mean heaven and in addition imperial and sky. Top would be 上 (Jou).

You know, of course I know that because I am Japanese. Ten does mean heaven but that's just not appropriate here.

[Herms]

That ten doesn't mean "heaven", I think. "top" would be better.

So muten would mean something like "top of the martial arts", then?

[kei17]

That ten doesn't mean "heaven", I think. "top" would be better.

So muten would mean something like "top of the martial arts", then?

It's not that specific, but I guess Toriyama gave that kind of meaning to muten. Maybe ten can mean even "god". Check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tian

*edit: I asked my brother about this. His opinion is that ten is from the word tensai, which means "genius" and "gifted". For your information, Kamesen'nin is called Tortue Géniale (Genius Turtle) in French dub.

[linkdude20002001]

Top of the Martial Arts would basically mean Master of the Martial Arts, wouldn't it?

Viz uses Immortal Old Master... So maybe Martial Arts God is where they got the Immortal part.

[Herms]

*edit: I asked my brother about this. His opinion is that ten is from the word tensai, which means "genius". For your information, Kamesen'nin is called Tortue Géniale (Genius Turtle) in French dub.

That's interesting, though I thought that Tortue Géniale was the French translation of Kame-sennin rather than Muten Roushi.

Viz uses Immortal Old Master... So maybe Martial Arts God is where they got the Immortal part.

Pretty sure they call him "Invincible Old Master" rather than "Immortal~".

[linkdude20002001]

Ah, I think you're right. I was close, though.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I think Mutaito's a title rather than a name. Even though some of the other characters in the series have eccentric names with meanings, they don't flat-out seem to be titles like Muten Roshi or Mutaito. As Herms said, roshi and taito are both actual titles, so being part of the characters' names would suggest that their titles too.

I think I'm going to go with Mutaito and Muten Roshi being titles rather than names. Even though the name "Muten Roshi" is on his driver's license, it is the only "name" we have for him, we don't know if the legal system in the DB world means you have to put your real name like in the real world and it's likely that he's only known by his title now, somewhat superseding his name.

[Olivier Hague]

"Mu Taito" and "Muten Rôshi" both sound like art-names to me...

I thought that Tortue Géniale was the French translation of Kame-sennin rather than Muten Roushi.

It is. Why "Géniale", you'd have to ask them though (and I wouldn't expect a very satisfying reply anyway, myself)...
As for "Muten Rôshi", the few times when the translators of the TV series actually acknowledged that name, it became "Maître... Muten"? Something that sounded close to "Muten", anyway... Maybe they changed the Japanese a bit just for the heck of it. I wouldn't put it past those clowns.

[Herms]

"Mu Taito" and "Muten Rôshi" both sound like art-names to me...

Ah, that certainly makes sense. That's sort of what I had in mind when I said maybe it was a name he took on later in life. I said that would be basically the same thing as a title, but thinking about it now, "title" implies that the name was pre-existing and that multiple people could hold it, which isn't really true of art names.

It is. Why "Géniale", you'd have to ask them though (and I wouldn't expect a very satisfying reply anyway, myself)...
As for "Muten Rôshi", the few times when the translators of the TV series actually acknowledged that name, it became "Maître... Muten"? Something that sounded close to "Muten", anyway... Maybe they changed the Japanese a bit just for the heck of it. I wouldn't put it past those clowns.

Well, at least it's still better than "Master Roshi".

[Piccolo Daimao]

"Mu Taito" and "Muten Rôshi" both sound like art-names to me...

Ah, that certainly makes sense. That's sort of what I had in mind when I said maybe it was a name he took on later in life. I said that would be basically the same thing as a title, but thinking about it now, "title" implies that the name was pre-existing and that multiple people could hold it, which isn't really true of art names.

Unless the old timer was the only person who could hold the titles "Kame-sennin" and "Muten Roshi". There's probably only one hermit who has turtle shells and lives with a turtle, and "Muten Roshi" may be so associated with the old timer that others wouldn't take it. Like if there was a game designer who'd brought out a bunch of awesome videogames and was then nicknamed "The Grandfather of Video Games", people would be like, "No, that's not you, that's Shigeru Miyamoto."

I think those are called "unique titles".

[Olivier Hague]

Well, at least it's still better than "Master Roshi".

Sure is. I don't think I'll ever get used to that one.