DBZ Movie 1 - Return My Gohan

[Dayspring]

To answer your questions, I got movie 1 from the offical Time-line. The others were my own ideas. Also, the movies do not fit, even if you modify the existing universe to match. Sure, some will, but not all. They're just stories that occur in a 'time-frame' where the characters are a certain strength.

Movie 5 also officially takes place in the Chronology. Just its specific date isn't given; it's listed as taking place in "764-767," right after the entry where Trunks kills Freeza.

[*PINHEAD*]

I would say it probably should fit before the whole Radditz ordeal, since Son Goku died and all...


No, I don't think Gohan knew of his power nor were Goku and Piccolo on friendly terms at that point.

[Conan the SSJ]

Man, I do wonder how much this has been discussed. Oh well, here's a post I once made on this subject, I've slightly revised it and even gave a complete spell check this time around, enjoy.

ALL this is my pure opinion and theory, and for the record: GT and the specific movies I point out at the least fit in the anime continuity in my opinion (I'm not saying anything about the manga continuity, since the anime is an adaptation and not direct copy of it, and I am an anime purist just to let you all know).

Movie 1: Can fit a year before Raditz arrived on Earth, though is sort of forced to fit by the Garlic Jr. saga, so the fact Krillin is surprised by Gohan a year later is just a slacking memory on his part.
FITS!

Movie 2: Can't fit because Piccolo should be dead (no halo, so no-one can argue Baba brought him back for a day or something), also Goku should be in his famous hospital contraption at Wukong Hospital.
AU!
The concept of this AU shows that Piccolo survived Nappa's attack, and Goku successfully defeated the Saiyans (without getting injured to the point of being the way he is in the series) with Vegeta possibly surviving like in the series.

Movie 3: Can't fit because Gohan, Krillin, Bulma, and Goku (him being on his way) should be on Namek while Piccolo, Chaozu, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha should be dead.
AU!
This AU's concept shows that through a revelation of one of the purple twins, Freeza is still alive and Goku and gang have apparently succeeded in wishing back Piccolo and the others, however left Namek in Freeza's hands and Vegeta perhaps somewhere in space.

Movie 4: Can't fit because at this point Goku and gang are on Namek and the battle with Freeza has began, nor could it fit anytime after the Freeza saga since Goku only went Quasi-SSJ.
AU!
The concept of this AU depicts that Goku had supposedly defeated Freeza with his Namekian Solar-System Genki-dama, and Goku and gang left to return to Earth and used Earth's dragonballs to wish Yamcha and maybe Tenshinhan back to life (Chaozu had already been revived, so he had a technicality on being resurrected). Vegeta is likely to be dead considering Goku and the others would have probably used the wish to just bring back Tenshinhan and Yamcha and had kind of given up on Namek's people (before Freeza showed back up) in the series.

Movie 5: Can fit during the 3 year training period before the androids show up, the concept of Gohan's tail was that he merely grew it back off-camera between the conclusion of the driving episode's main plot and the start of this feature (just like how Goku did back in his 3 year world traveling mission in original Dragonball). The reason he's never seen with it again is most likely due to him getting it removed since Doore revealed he still had a weakness to it. The concept of Goku waiting till he was at desperation to go SSJ was due to 2 things basically; because as shown in the previous training episodes, he had been training with Piccolo and Gohan in his normal form and hadn't done enough Earth training in his SSJ form, and also for the feature to build up drama. And also, Cooler is seen in DBGT, and GT does take place in the anime continuity with the specific movies after all.
FITS!

Movie 6: Can't fit because Piccolo is merged with Kami and Dende is guardian of the Earth, while we all know at the time Dende became guardian, Goku and Gohan were always in their SSJ form and Gohan had himself a haircut (and the ability to go SSJ).
AU!
The concept for this AU depicts that Piccolo had most likely defeated Cell in his imperfect form and Goku had (like in the show) healed from the heart virus. It's possible then that they just let Androids 17 and 18 continue their "country driving" (since Kami revealed they wern't the same types of androids from Trunks' timeline) and Piccolo would be ready for them if they returned to fight. It's likely then that Goku and the Z senshi felt the need for the dragonballs and went on his universal teleportation to Kaio's planet and then to Namek to pick Dende up in a similar manner like in the show, just in case they would need the dragonballs again someday. After Dende learns of his home planet's trouble, he tells Goku of the situation and they go lend a hand to the Namekians.

Movie 7: Can't fit because at this point, Goku and the others wouldn't have found the time to go on a family styled lunch-in with the situations with Cell and the androids, plain and simple, and also couldn't take place during the 10 days of peace since Gohan remains with his previous hair style and the lack of turning SSJ, along with the fact that Trunks, Vegeta, and Goku appear to be at the same power states they were before training in the Room of Spirit and Time.
AU!
This AU concept can very possibly take place in the continuity of Movie 6's AU, as Goku and the others were fully healed at the end of Movie 6 and returned to have one last fun time with Trunks before he would return to his own time (to Roshi and Oolong, that meant being peeping toms).

Movie 8: Can't fit because at the time during the 10 days of peace, Trunks and Vegeta were at Kami's Lookout for 4 of the 10 days during the peace, and the rest of the time, Goku was busy collecting the dragonballs in his SSJ form while Gohan was spending time with Dende in his SSJ form.
AU!
This AU shows what happened possibly after Movie 7's end and that Vegeta, Trunks, Goku, and Gohan still went training in the Room of Spirit and Time despite the androids were defeated (Vegeta so he could beat Goku, Trunks so he could beat his timeline's androids, and Goku and Gohan so Goku could get stronger and teach Gohan how to reach SSJ). Evidently they all finished and Paragaus shows up at the spring celebration to bring Prince Vegeta to Planet New Vegeta.

Movie 9: Can fit, most definitely a few months or so after Cell was defeated by Gohan. The concept of a pregnant Chichi or why an infant Goten isn't shown is simple; Chichi has already given birth to Goten, and has likely left him with her Father to baby-sit so she could come see Gohan have one last fighting time at the Galactic Tournament. Another concept involving Trunks having long hair when he left his timeline for a last visit with short hair is due to staying in the past long enough for one last visit with everyone. Involving Gohan waiting a while to go SSJ2, basically that's due to the fact he had only used SSJ2 on Cell and thus it was still a fresh and new power to him, also to create drama like for Goku going SSJ in Movie 5.
FITS!

Movie 10:
Can't fit because the previous Broly movie doesn't fit.
AU!
While Broly couldn't possibly fit in the continuity, the depiction of this AU is quite close to the normal regular series we all know and watched. As it appears, Cell had apparently had a last battle with Goku and Gohan in this continuity following the first battle with Broly, and like in the series, Goku sacrificed his life and Gohan ended up defeating Cell with SSJ2. Now 7 years later, which could more or less fit in this version's time frame between after Videl learns how to fly and the 25th Budokai begins, Broly basically returns and tries killing Goten and Gohan. Goku returns for a brief instance thanks to the dragonballs to aid Gohan and Goten, and they all three blast Broly into the sun and oblivion with the triple Kamehame-Ha.

Movie 11:
Can't fit because Broly can't in any possible way, shape, or form. And plus, the battle with Bio Broly is too convenient for not one of the characters not to have a thinking reference of Majin Buu, since at this point, he's on his killing spree (with Gohan training with the Z Sword, and Goku should be on Kaioshin's planet and not Grand Kai's).
AU!
This AU concept follows what the previous Broly movie had set up. Majin Buu is very possibly still flying around on his killing spree, though with it being the day after the 25th Budokai, #18 still goes to collect her fee form Mr. Satan. Also it shows that Goten and Trunks had found the time during fusion training to join her, Krillin, and Maron on the trip. Much like Movie 10, this movie does have similarities with the timeframe the series was in at the time; Goku returned to Other World before the previous day ended and Gohan still mysteriously missing, and apparently #18 hadn't forgotten her deal with Mr. Satan, and as anyone who's seen the movie knows, they find Broly at the cloning labs of Mr. Satan's childhood enemy, have the final culminating fight with Broly until the beast is frozen in a 50 foot slimed stone statue (which is then destroyed by Goten and Trunks).

Movie 12:
Can't fit, basically because everyone on Earth is alive and well when in the series, everyone below Kami's Lookout (except for Tenshinhan, Chaozu, Mr. Satan, and maybe anyone else lucky to survive) had been killed by Evil Buu's Human Genocide Attack. Also, Chichi, Bulma, Videl, etc., had been killed on the lookout by Evil Buu so they shouldn't be alive in any way whatsoever. And finally, there was absolutely no time gap in the series during the battle with Buu in which Janemba could have surfaced in the manner of which he did, and plus; Buu was no where around.
AU!
The concept of this AU basically depicts what likely happened if Mystic Gohan had defeated Evil Buu, or the supposed Ultimate Suicide attack Evil Buu used on Gohan in the series had really killed Buu himself. Like in the series, Dende had survived Buu's Lookout frenzy. Apparently now, the others formulated some kind of plan that allowed them to wish everyone back to life (though Krillin, Chaozu, and Roshi couldn't have been wished back, nor could all the people whom Cell killed). This is basically a pure AU that shows what would have happened IF Gohan had defeated Evil Buu, and shows an intriguing fashion of exactly what would have happened in the DBZ universe.

Movie 13: Can fit, if anywhere this movie's timeframe could be put into the anime continuity, it'd have to be 6 months after Goku wished for the knowledge of Buu to be erased from the normal Earthlings' memories, and thus after the nice little party at West City (perhaps the very next day after that maybe). The concept of the credits showing Future Trunks using HIS sword against Freeza should be noted that it is NOT the same sword Tapion gave to Present Trunks, they are two different swords and the credits merely show how Present Trunks is following in Future Trunks' footsteps as a great swordsman (and plus, Present Trunks is seen with his sword in GT). The concept of SSJ3 Goku being able to defeat Hildegarn when even Mystic Gohan couldn't is due to Goku using the 100% SSJ3 power he spoke of and tried to use in the Kid Buu fight, and as seen in Movie 13, the 100% is what he must of used to defeat Hildegarn with the Ryu-ken (which he probably would of defeated Kid Buu with if he hadn't ran out of energy in their fight). If a concept of Mr. Satan and Mr. Buu not being seen appears to be strange, it's just like Infant Goten in Movie 9, they merely weren't there, though Bee the dog made a cameo at the Capsule Corp. party.
FITS!

[Xyex]

I still find it funny that movie's 1 and 5, two movies that can't fit in the series, are the ones cited in the time-line as fighting, while the two that can (9 and 13) are never refrenced.

And also, Cooler is seen in DBGT, and GT does take place in the anime continuity with the specific movies after all.

GT, like the movies, does not fit in the continuity. It's a new series based on DB, yes, but it does not conintue the series. Just like the moives it's a What-if.

[Conan the SSJ]

GT, like the movies, does not fit in the continuity. It's a new series based on DB, yes, but it does not conintue the series. Just like the moives it's a What-if.

That's your opinion and point of view on the subject, but GT was done by Toei, Akira Toriyama was some-what involved in character designs for the first half of the series, and no one is saying it's fitting in the manga continuity (which is purley Akira Toriyama and the manga purists' domain), it merely goes into the anime adaptation's continuity. GT, in my opinion and from my point of view, is a continuation of the original Dragonball and Dragonball Z adapted anime series'. Unless Toei themselves say GT isn't a continuation of the previous Dragonball animes, then I'm still gonna stick with my belief.

Darn, getting off topic. Sorry.

[Dayspring]

GT, like the movies, does not fit in the continuity. It's a new series based on DB, yes, but it does not conintue the series. Just like the moives it's a What-if.

That's your opinion and point of view on the subject, but GT was done by Toei, Akira Toriyama was some-what involved in character designs for the first half of the series, and no one is saying it's fitting in the manga continuity (which is purley Akira Toriyama and the manga purists' domain), it merely goes into the anime adaptation's continuity. GT, in my opinion and from my point of view, is a continuation of the original Dragonball and Dragonball Z adapted anime series'. Unless Toei themselves say GT isn't a continuation of the previous Dragonball animes, then I'm still gonna stick with my belief.

Darn, getting off topic. Sorry.

But using that logic, ALL movies and filler are canon too. I also treat GT like the movies, this one being like the more plausible "movies" like movies 1 and 5; doable only if you choose to ignore certain blatant inconsistancies.

In my opinion, movie 13 will be the only movie that perfectly fits without any debate.

[Akira]

I've never seen the Daizenshuu guidebook timeline. Here is a chart I made based off of what is seen in the Manga and anime. Is this correct?

Timeline Chart

[Dayspring]

I've never seen the Daizenshuu guidebook timeline. Here is a chart I made based off of what is seen in the Manga and anime. Is this correct?

Timeline Chart

Nope.

[Panda]

Movie 1: Prior to Radditz (same year). Things we have to ignore are the fact that nobody knows about Gohan at the reunion, even though Goku got the radar from them and explained all about him...and Krillin was even peed on him. Maybe he didn't forget and was just in denial.

If I remember right, (and I very well may not since I havent seen this movie in some time) the only people that were at the fight scene were Piccolo, Kuririn and Goku (Yajirobe or Yamucha also but I'm not sure) and nowhere that I have founf states anything about Piccolo not knowing about Gohan. He may never have met him or seen him prior to the movie or the series but he didn't look surprised to see Goku had a son.

Kuririn on the other hand may just have to work with that theory since theirs really no other logical way (Or maybe he hit his head to hard or something )

[Conan the SSJ]

The only things I don't count as "canon" in the Dragonball anime trilogy continuity are DBZ Movies 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, the "OVA", and all of the original Dragonball movies. Everything else, all 3 specials, DBZ movies 1, 5, 9, 13, the Garlic Jr./Paikuhan/anime "filler" extras, and all of GT are counted as canon in the anime continuity from my point of view and my opinion, and I'll only change my mind if Toei personally states that those four movies, anything that wasn't originally in the manga, and GT shouldn't be counted as continuity in the anime adapted universe. My feelings are stated, I clearly let it be known it's my point of view and opinion, please feel no need to argue unless you have an official statement from a Toei executive. Peace.

[Akira]

I've never seen the Daizenshuu guidebook timeline. Here is a chart I made based off of what is seen in the Manga and anime. Is this correct?

Timeline Chart

Nope.

Any chance you have a Daizenshuu scan or something so I can update it and make it accurate? It seems to me to be in the right direction of being accurate. In the timeline Trunks came from it had to be Goku who used Instant transmission and finished off Freeza and Kold, or at least Freeza..

[Dayspring]

I've never seen the Daizenshuu guidebook timeline. Here is a chart I made based off of what is seen in the Manga and anime. Is this correct?

Timeline Chart

Nope.

Any chance you have a Daizenshuu scan or something so I can update it and make it accurate? It seems to me to be in the right direction of being accurate. In the timeline Trunks came from it had to be Goku who used Instant transmission and finished off Freeza and Kold, or at least Freeza..

That's not the problem at all. You're assuming the only timeline is Trunks' and that the others are all resulting from splinter-effects of his actions. All four timelines are separate from each other.

Time travel is still technically impossible in DB; you're only visiting the past of another timeline. That's why timeline 1 is the manga's: it's the first (and almost only) timeline we see. Timeline 2 is Trunks' because we hear his story second. Next comes Cell, so his timeline is third. Timeline 4 is the one that remains. There is no "main reality" or unaltered one. All four are unique and all four are affected in different ways through Trunks and Cell's time travelling.

I'll see if I can scan the timeline page (which won't be for a while), but I think it's already up over at Lovely Cyborg or the Temple O'Trunks.

[Akira]

Thats kinda hard to understand then. Wouldn't the timelines be the same as each other until something different was caused? I always assumed that the "Timeline 1" and "Timeline 2" shared a common past and were one timeline originally. I can see what you are saying making sense if it worked in this way:

Trunks went into the past of his own timeline, and changed a pivotal moment. Thus there were then two timelines. Past, present and future were all seperate in two different times. The two would still have the exact same events up until a point though, even though they were from then on two different worlds. Is that what you are saying, Dayspring my friend?

[desirecampbell]

Thats kinda hard to understand then. Wouldn't the timelines be the same as each other until something different was caused? I always assumed that the "Timeline 1" and "Timeline 2" shared a common past and were one timeline originally. I can see what you are saying making sense if it worked in this way:

Trunks went into the past of his own timeline, and changed a pivotal moment. Thus there were then two timelines. Past, present and future were all seperate in two different times. The two would still have the exact same events up until a point though, even though they were from then on two different worlds. Is that what you are saying, Dayspring my friend?

That's how I saw time travel in DBZ. Every choice spawns an infinite number of paralell worlds where each possible choice happens.

[Conan the SSJ]

I'd find it funny and weird if Toei were to do a Crisis on Infinite Earths type movie for the 25th anniversary of the Dragonball anime, actually tying the manga, anime, and separate movie universes into one. It'd be ripping off DC, but hey, I'd be the first one on a plane to Japan just to watch it.

In case anyone isn't aware, "Crisis on Infinite Earths" was a DC maxi-comic series developed in 1985 meant to fix all the plot holes in the "DC Universe". There's a VERY awesome fan-made DBZ story called "Dominion: Reprise" that actually explores this, a very good read if you know where to find it.

[Dayspring]

Thats kinda hard to understand then. Wouldn't the timelines be the same as each other until something different was caused? I always assumed that the "Timeline 1" and "Timeline 2" shared a common past and were one timeline originally. I can see what you are saying making sense if it worked in this way:

Trunks went into the past of his own timeline, and changed a pivotal moment. Thus there were then two timelines. Past, present and future were all seperate in two different times. The two would still have the exact same events up until a point though, even though they were from then on two different worlds. Is that what you are saying, Dayspring my friend?

I'm saying they're 90% (and maybe even more) the same up until pivotal events. You're still looking at it like Trunks' actions split a single timeline the way an axe splits a tree. Nothing Trunks could have done would cause the manga timeline's cyborgs to be nicer and stronger than his own, or that Gero didn't build #19 to turn him into a cyborg too. Nothing he did caused them to release #16 either.

It's minor discrepencies like that which we aren't privy too. Take the manga for example: Goku was going to arrive late. This means in his reality, Vegeta+co would have had to stall against Freeza and Cold while the henchmen did some serious damage to the planet (had Trunks not intervened). Goku would only then return and saves the day. In Trunks' timeline, Goku returned first and saved the day. Something along those lines occurred in timelines 3 and 4 as well. All that matters is that there was a battle between Goku against Freeza+Cold. The details would differ, but Goku would always win.

The daizenshuu uses the timelines section to explain how paradoxes are avoided: you're changing the past of another timeline and not your own. Trunks even admits that his mother always dreamed of at least one reality where the androids didn't do any damage. Trunks' being able to learn how to save his own timeline was just an added bonus.

The timeline section, as a result, shows the intermingling of the four timelines. Their chronologies span only from 763 to 788, since those are the only years where this intertwining mattered. The Chronology section itself, as Xyex sometime mistakingly refers to as the Timeline section, is a much more indepth chronology of timeline 1 only, spanning from "Over a hundred million years ago" to the 28th budoukai. Whereas the Timeline section is one page explaining the intermingling, the Chronology section explains every event ever in 20 pages.

So here's how things go:

Timeline 1:
763: Cell from timeline 3 arrives in embryonic state.
764: Trunks from timeline 2 kills Freeza+gives Goku the medicine.
766: Birth of Trunks.
767: Return of Trunks from timeline 2. Androids and Cell Games.
774: Boo is freed.
784: 28th budoukai. Goku leaves with Uub.

Timeline 2:
764: Goku returns to Earth, defeats Freeza. Goku later dies of a contagious disease.
766: Trunks is born.
767: Androids: everybody but Gohan dies.
780: Death of Gohan.
784: Completion of Time Machine. Trunks goes back in time (to 764 of timeline 1). Trunks returns. Trunks goes back in time a second time (to 767).
785: Trunks returns and kills the androids.
788: Trunks kills Cell.

Timeline 3:
764: Goku returns to Earth, defeats Freeza. Goku later dies of a contagious disease.
766: Trunks is born.
767: Androids: everybody but Gohan dies.
780: Death of Gohan.
784: Completion of Time Machine. Trunks goes back in time (to 764 of timeline 4). Trunks returns. Trunks goes back in time a second time (to 767).
785: Trunks returns and uses the remote control to destroy the androids.
788: Cell kills Trunks and steals the time machine to go back in time (to 763 of timeline 1).

Timeline 4:
764: Trunks from timeline 3 kills Freeza+gives Goku the medicine.
766: Birth of Trunks.
767: Return of Trunks from timeline 3. Androids are destroyed with the remote control. Trunks goes back with the remote to his timeline. Cell Games with results unknown (which is an error because there should be no Cell from another timeline's future, and how could he have obtained a perfect body without assimilating any androids?).

[Last Son of Krypton]

I'd find it funny and weird if Toei were to do a Crisis on Infinite Earths type movie for the 25th anniversary of the Dragonball anime, actually tying the manga, anime, and separate movie universes into one. It'd be ripping off DC, but hey, I'd be the first one on a plane to Japan just to watch it.

In case anyone isn't aware, "Crisis on Infinite Earths" was a DC maxi-comic series developed in 1985 meant to fix all the plot holes in the "DC Universe". There's a VERY awesome fan-made DBZ story called "Dominion: Reprise" that actually explores this, a very good read if you know where to find it.

Crisis on Infinite Earths was a retcon more than anything. It was also a way for DC to acquire characters from other companies such as Blue Beetle, Captain Marvel, Captain Atom, the Freedom Fighters etc. It also gave characters new origins and wiped certain characters from existence until they were brought back.

[Akira]

Aside from the Cell games in that one timeline, those listed events seem to be the best way they could explain things in words alone. I think my splinter chart supports the things shown in that list. I appreciate you getting the information for me Dayspring.

[desirecampbell]

I'm still having a hard time figuring out how the separate timelines work.

I don't see anything that proves that the timelines were separate before cell's arrivial in the time machine (763 timeline 1). The only discrepinceies happen after that. That alone could explain the changes in T1 from T2 (ie: the butterfly effect).

How come the time machine goes to timeline 1 and then back to timeline 2? If all timelines are separate then it makes no sense that they would just hop back into another timeline instead of their own.

Of course this is DragonBall, so it might just not make sense.

[Dayspring]

I'm still having a hard time figuring out how the separate timelines work.

I don't see anything that proves that the timelines were separate before cell's arrivial in the time machine (763 timeline 1). The only discrepinceies happen after that. That alone could explain the changes in T1 from T2 (ie: the butterfly effect).

How come the time machine goes to timeline 1 and then back to timeline 2? If all timelines are separate then it makes no sense that they would just hop back into another timeline instead of their own.

Of course this is DragonBall, so it might just not make sense.

Actually it makes perfect sense: it would create a paradox in your universe, which is even referenced in the Timeline section of the daizenshuu. If Trunks went back and changed his own timeline, his future would change. Since he altered an event for the better, the Trunks that has yet to be born yet will grow up not needing to go back and make that change. Not going back to make the change, the event won't be altered and things will reset to the way they were. It's hard to wrap your brain around it, but take solace in the fact that that's why all Star Trek captains hate time travel.

So Mirai Trunks goes to timeline 1 instead. He makes a change there instead of in his own timeline. Chibi Trunks grows up not needing to go back in time and therefore won't, but it doesn't matter since it was never him who made the change in the first place; it was Mirai Trunks. As a result, the event won't become undone. No paradox = no problem. But since Mirai Trunks altered a different timeline, nothing happened to his own, which is why it remained unchanged when he returned.

Akira: NO! Draw four separate lists and simply have lines connecting them whenever a time traveler goes back in time. The four timelines are not a splinter-effect of the Chronology guide. The Chronology is simply a chronology of all Dragonball, the manga, which happens to be timeline 1. It has nothing to do with the timelines; it's just talking about the manga. We only see timeline 2 three times (Trunks: The Story, his return to 785, 788), and we don't see timeline 3 or 4 at all.