Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
- Insertclevername
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3208
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:27 pm
- Location: Eastern Zone 439
Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
So, it's no surprise that Dragon Ball has quite a few plotholes littered throughout it's story, but how have you self remedied these mistakes with the use of your own theories?
To get this started, lets begin with a classic, Trunks telling Gokuu that Artificial Humans #19 & #20 are come in three years instead of #17 & #18.
To get this started, lets begin with a classic, Trunks telling Gokuu that Artificial Humans #19 & #20 are come in three years instead of #17 & #18.
Cipher wrote:Also, you can seriously like whatever and still get laid. That's a revelation that'll hit you at some point.
- TheMightyOzaru
- Banned
- Posts: 6255
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 pm
- Location: Capsule Corp
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
Trunks never said 19 and 20 were the androids that destroyed his future.Insertclevername wrote:So, it's no surprise that Dragon Ball has quite a few plotholes littered throughout it's story, but how have you self remedied these mistakes with the use of your own theories?
To get this started, lets begin with a classic, Trunks telling Gokuu that Artificial Humans #19 & #20 are come in three years instead of #17 & #18.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
- Hellspawn28
- Patreon Supporter
- Posts: 15202
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:50 pm
- Location: Maryland, USA
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
#17 and #18 end up being the main artificial humans is more like a retcon then a plot hole.
She/Her
PS5 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
LB Profile: https://letterboxd.com/Hellspawn28/
PS5 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
LB Profile: https://letterboxd.com/Hellspawn28/
- Gaffer Tape
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 6054
- Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:25 pm
- Contact:
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
Yes, he did. When he told Goku about them initially.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Trunks never said 19 and 20 were the androids that destroyed his future.
Wait, or was that your theory to fill the plothole?
Anyway, I guess this is less filling the hole than giving my opinion on how it should have been done, but I always thought it would have been simple to retcon this without having a plothole at all. Just say the changes made to the timeline changed the order and thus the numbering of the artificial humans. So that in his timeline, the boy and girl are referred to as #19 and #20, while in the main timeline, their production was moved up, so that the clown and old man are #19 and #20 instead. Simple. Easy. Seamless.
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:
MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 4/1/24!)
Current Episode: A Match Made in Hell - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Super #17 Arc Part 2
MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 4/1/24!)
Current Episode: A Match Made in Hell - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Super #17 Arc Part 2
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
#19 and #20 did actually show up in his timeline, but since he was never there for it he was going off second-hand information and didn't realize #19 and #20 were different Androids. IIRC he doesn't refer to any of theAndroids as #17 and #18 until they're identified as such in the manga, right? So he might not have known the right numbers of the future Androids.Insertclevername wrote:So, it's no surprise that Dragon Ball has quite a few plotholes littered throughout it's story, but how have you self remedied these mistakes with the use of your own theories?
To get this started, lets begin with a classic, Trunks telling Gokuu that Artificial Humans #19 & #20 are come in three years instead of #17 & #18.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
- penguintruth
- Banned
- Posts: 4861
- Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:49 pm
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
How would Trunks even know what number they are? Did he stop and ask their names?
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.
Dragon Ball (Z) Kai Reviews!
Can I get a Schemen?
- bleed0range
- OMG CRAZY REGEN
- Posts: 892
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:38 pm
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
How about that whole Tapion giving Trunks of the androidless future his sword only for him to... use it.... when he goes back in the past to kill Frieza to save a future where everyone was destroyed by the Androids. I would say that this isn't the case if they didn't play a little clip show right after the end. Ahhh but that's the movies.
How about the fact that it makes no sense that Trunks can go back to the future to destroy the androids if they're destroyed in the past unless it makes some kind of alternate timeline and if so how in the world does he get to choose which timeline he goes back to. If one of the others jumped in the time machine would it take them back to Trunks future? I hate how that makes no sense. lol.
How about the fact that it makes no sense that Trunks can go back to the future to destroy the androids if they're destroyed in the past unless it makes some kind of alternate timeline and if so how in the world does he get to choose which timeline he goes back to. If one of the others jumped in the time machine would it take them back to Trunks future? I hate how that makes no sense. lol.
- VegettoEX
- Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
- Posts: 17547
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
It's pretty well explained and set it stone that time traveling will always create an alternate timeline independent of the one you come from. Part of the point is that Trunks believes that changing SOMEONE'S future is worth it, even if it won't help his own time.
As for returning to your own timeline, perhaps that's also just one of the laws of time travel physics.
As for returning to your own timeline, perhaps that's also just one of the laws of time travel physics.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
- Insertclevername
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3208
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:27 pm
- Location: Eastern Zone 439
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
I currently don't have the manga chapter on me, but does anyone know if Trunks or Gohan ever refer to the Artificial Humans as their respective numbers?
Cipher wrote:Also, you can seriously like whatever and still get laid. That's a revelation that'll hit you at some point.
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
I view the clip show as symbolic. Future Trunks had a sword, now Present Trunks has a sword (but not the same sword) and it's all nice and symbolic of him growing up to be similar or some shit.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
- bleed0range
- OMG CRAZY REGEN
- Posts: 892
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:38 pm
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
I don't doubt that the timeline's split. Obviously he came from an alternate one. But if he changed the past, then he should technically be unable to return to HIS future. It would have changed what the future would be and he would thus be traveling into that future.VegettoEX wrote:It's pretty well explained and set it stone that time traveling will always create an alternate timeline independent of the one you come from. Part of the point is that Trunks believes that changing SOMEONE'S future is worth it, even if it won't help his own time.
As for returning to your own timeline, perhaps that's also just one of the laws of time travel physics.
Of course I'm adhering to Back to the Future rules of time travel here, but I think it makes more sense. You can just throw your hands up and say "that's just time travel!" but it still seems kind of confusing.
- Insertclevername
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3208
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:27 pm
- Location: Eastern Zone 439
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
Oh yeah, I agree as well. I feel that's one of those things that are just frequently misinterpreted as literal fact. Which is strange considering it would make absolutely no sense if it was literally how Trunks gets his sword.Saiga wrote:I view the clip show as symbolic. Future Trunks had a sword, now Present Trunks has a sword (but not the same sword) and it's all nice and symbolic of him growing up to be similar or some shit.
Cipher wrote:Also, you can seriously like whatever and still get laid. That's a revelation that'll hit you at some point.
- bleed0range
- OMG CRAZY REGEN
- Posts: 892
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:38 pm
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
If that's true the the swords shouldn't be identical. What you're saying makes sense, but the decision to give him an identical sword and then show a clip of an older Trunks using what looks like the same exact sword is kind of... weird.Insertclevername wrote:Oh yeah, I agree as well. I feel that's one of those things that are just frequently misinterpreted as literal fact. Which is strange considering it would make absolutely no sense if it was literally how Trunks gets his sword.Saiga wrote:I view the clip show as symbolic. Future Trunks had a sword, now Present Trunks has a sword (but not the same sword) and it's all nice and symbolic of him growing up to be similar or some shit.
- VegettoEX
- Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
- Posts: 17547
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
As much as I'm also a huge Back to the Future fan, that's the whole point -- it's a completely different explanation of time travel. His past/present/future remains exactly the same, and only creates a new timeline branched off at the point that he arrives, one that he does not belong to.bleed0range wrote:I don't doubt that the timeline's split. Obviously he came from an alternate one. But if he changed the past, then he should technically be unable to return to HIS future. It would have changed what the future would be and he would thus be traveling into that future.
Of course I'm adhering to Back to the Future rules of time travel here, but I think it makes more sense. You can just throw your hands up and say "that's just time travel!" but it still seems kind of confusing.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
- Insertclevername
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3208
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:27 pm
- Location: Eastern Zone 439
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
True, and I think that's where I felt Toei (or Toriyama since he did do the design) failed -- or at the very least, poorly -- conveyed their symbolism, which subsequently led to all the rumors and misinterpretation that Tapion appeared in Mirai Trunk's timeline.bleed0range wrote: If that's true the the swords shouldn't be identical. What you're saying makes sense, but the decision to give him an identical sword and then show a clip of an older Trunks using what looks like the same exact sword is kind of... weird.
Cipher wrote:Also, you can seriously like whatever and still get laid. That's a revelation that'll hit you at some point.
- bleed0range
- OMG CRAZY REGEN
- Posts: 892
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:38 pm
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
But then that creates plot holes in and of itself (or a paradox rather) because if he kills the Cell that traveled back in time that started that whole mess then he basically undoes everything that just happened. That cell can no longer go back in time to ultimately be killed by Gohan. It means he should have let Cell go back in time still and only killed the androids.VegettoEX wrote:As much as I'm also a huge Back to the Future fan, that's the whole point -- it's a completely different explanation of time travel. His past/present/future remains exactly the same, and only creates a new timeline branched off at the point that he arrives, one that he does not belong to.bleed0range wrote:I don't doubt that the timeline's split. Obviously he came from an alternate one. But if he changed the past, then he should technically be unable to return to HIS future. It would have changed what the future would be and he would thus be traveling into that future.
Of course I'm adhering to Back to the Future rules of time travel here, but I think it makes more sense. You can just throw your hands up and say "that's just time travel!" but it still seems kind of confusing.
- Gaffer Tape
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 6054
- Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:25 pm
- Contact:
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
No, because, again, you're applying Back to the Future's mutable timeline rules to this. In branching timelines, there can be no paradoxes because any alteration will exist in its own self-contained universe. Trunks from the future could take out his sword and stab his baby self until he's unrecognizable, but it would cause no paradox or affect the adult version in any way because they're entirely separate people.
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:
MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 4/1/24!)
Current Episode: A Match Made in Hell - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Super #17 Arc Part 2
MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 4/1/24!)
Current Episode: A Match Made in Hell - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Super #17 Arc Part 2
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
Well basically there should be infinite timelines, and I theorize the time machine can somehow record the timeline it has come from and travels that way.
This image kind've helps and is what I follow:
This image kind've helps and is what I follow:
- Herms
- Kanzenshuu Admin Emeritus
- Posts: 10550
- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:40 pm
- Location: Jupiter
- Contact:
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
When Trunks warns Goku about the androids, in the manga he specifically refers to them as 19 and 20 (in the anime he doesn't mention any numbers). Then of course later he has no clue who 19 and 20 are. 20 says he'll go wake up 17 and 18, and Piccolo says these must be the two Trunks knew. At this point Trunks now seems familiar with the designations "17" and "18", explaining that 17 is a boy with a scarf and 18 is a girl wearing clothes similar to his own. Can't remember if he shows any familiarity with the pair's numbers in Trunks: the Story or the Trunks TV special.Insertclevername wrote:I currently don't have the manga chapter on me, but does anyone know if Trunks or Gohan ever refer to the Artificial Humans as their respective numbers?
Kanzenshuu: Is that place still around?
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
- Insertclevername
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3208
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:27 pm
- Location: Eastern Zone 439
Re: Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!
Woops, I meant in the flashback chapter where Trunks and Gohan are in the future, fighting the Artificial Humans. So, yeah, in that specific chapter, does Mirai Gohan or Trunks call them #17 or #18?Herms wrote:When Trunks warns Goku about the androids, in the manga he specifically refers to them as 19 and 20. Then of course later he has no clue who 19 and 20 are. 20 says he'll go wake up 17 and 18, and Piccolo says these must be the two Trunks knew. At this point Trunks now seems familiar with the designations "17" and "18", explaining that 17 is a boy with a scarf and 18 is a girl wearing clothes similar to his own.Insertclevername wrote:I currently don't have the manga chapter on me, but does anyone know if Trunks or Gohan ever refer to the Artificial Humans as their respective numbers?
Cipher wrote:Also, you can seriously like whatever and still get laid. That's a revelation that'll hit you at some point.