Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:KK, if it's simply an opinion I can dig it. Do you even know how big the outer edges of our Solar System are though? DBZ characters haven't shown anything even close to covering 1/1,000 of our Solar System. It's much easier and much more sensible to assume Cell blows up the sun technically causing a Solar collapse.
Maybe so, but we don't know what or how Toriyama thinks. He could have written that as literal or a hyperbole.
Maybe the planets were aligned. He could have just shot a Kamehameha through all of them
Or maybe his power shoots through the roof when the planets are aligned
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Draken wrote:When did I ever claim it was fact? When did I ever say Gohan lost half his ki was a fact? I'm putting out my viewpoint. I even stated on the first page "because for some people... because Gohan said..." as an obvious opinion. What's wrong with him destroying the solar system? Obviously characters can expand or control their ki at will. Yea, I guess he did.
Also what GmGoken said, or then SSJ2 being eight times base and SSJ3 being 32x base... Goku at that point might as well try to train his body for higher levels of kaioken with the same draining result as SSJ3 and a stronger power than SSJ2 lol.
Wait I'm confuse on what you're saying. Sorry but can you make it more simple?
I'm saying if SSJ was only 4x base then SSJ2 would only be eight times base and SSJ3 32x base. Which at that point, for SSJ and SSJ2, would be weaker than KKx20 that Goku could handle back on Namek. At that point he might as well try to train his body to handle higher levels of KK to top x32 base. It'd drain him as much as SSJ3, but meh they both suck anyways.
I know this is a bad answer but maybe SSJ and many other power boost are as strong as Mr. Toriyama want them to be for the period of time. One moment Goku ssj form might be 50x but in another moment maybe Mr. Toriyama thinks..."I don't want to make Goku kill him to fast so let's make SSJ 25x". The example is from Freeza fight and Yakon's fight. I think the multiple for SSJ changes with every fight depending on Mr. Toriyama's decision. For example for Goku showing off his FPSSJ the form could easily be 50x just so the other cast members can shit themselves. While Gohan thinking his father is not really showing off SSJ might be 55x. The mood the character is in also a factor as well.
Last edited by TheGmGoken on Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ketchup_Revenge wrote:Vegeta said that "(Saiyans) can't be reduced to numbers"
He also said that a Saiyan is ten times stronger as an Oozaru, so I don't think he has a fundamental problem with multipliers. I think he meant it more along the lines of not being able to predict the outcome of a fight or how much stronger a Saiyan can become using numbers alone.
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Vegeta merely said that because power levels fluctuate. That's why power levels were dropped in the first place.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
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Ketchup_Revenge wrote:SSj and FPSSj are often used interchangeably, and aren't actually considered in-universe as different forms. As far as Goku seems to refer to it as, they are the same thing.
Ketchup_Revenge wrote:So...
SSj= 4x base
FPSSj=8x base (or 2x SSj)
Wait... what?
I agree that 50x is excessive and is [depending on your interpretation of certain events/statements] contradicted later in the series.
I do not agree with FPSSJ being any different in power to SSJ.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:KK, if it's simply an opinion I can dig it. Do you even know how big the outer edges of our Solar System are though? DBZ characters haven't shown anything even close to covering 1/1,000 of our Solar System. It's much easier and much more sensible to assume Cell blows up the sun technically causing a Solar collapse.
Maybe so, but we don't know what or how Toriyama thinks. He could have written that as literal or a hyperbole.
Maybe the planets were aligned. He could have just shot a Kamehameha through all of them :lol:
1. The planets never align so perfectly.
2. Even if they did, in the time it takes for the Kamehameha to travel, the planets would move out of the alignment.
Rocketman wrote:
1. The planets never align so perfectly.
2. Even if they did, in the time it takes for the Kamehameha to travel, the planets would move out of the alignment.
True enough. Still, Goku could manipulate his Kamehameha. Maybe Cell could do the same and have it track the planets down or something. It would take forever, but it's not like he has anything better to do
They get pretty close to aligned. It's only somewhat, but as we obviously know they can control their ki, Cell might have been able to expand it. Or direct it. Lol. Not necessarily... if they can reach the moon in less than a second or the sun in like less than 5 seconds it's obviously MFTL, maybe Cell with his "perfect" brain could have timed it perfectly loool.
