One more time: Z Music suggestions :)

MalikArcanum · Post by **MalikArcanum** » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:00 pm

cRookie_Monster wrote:
CELL TRILOGY!

Also, slightly off topic, but this topic has now put me on a FLA & KMFDM kick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwhOTNQcQq4

Can't wait to hear what you come up with.

Gonstead · Post by **Gonstead** » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:17 pm

The word you were looking for was Semi-Perfect Cell.

As for the Cell trilogy theme.....DO IT!

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:34 pm

You should give Baby Cell a theme too.

some_weirdGuy · Post by **some_weirdGuy** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:51 am

I remember when I was younger I use to think that was already how it worked, imperfect and perfect having the same theme just 'perfected' as he transformed XD. When I came back to Dragonball Z again later I realised they were quite different, though I loved how it did feel like it evolved, from grudgey and horrific to a smooth and synthetic almost siren-like(as in alarm-sirens) quality.
((lol, though I guess the fact you forgot semi-perfect cell's name puts a slight damper on that earlier suggestion of giving him a specific second-form theme XD A three parter sounds amazing though))

But yeah, an evolving cell theme! Psyched, can't wait to hear what you go for with it.

If you're really going all out, you should try to include elements that originate from a hypothetical android 17 and android 18 theme(s). As if Cell's theme itself has absorbed their audio-silhouettes and cannibalised the instruments/elements/components of it's composition, twisting these to join and add his own unearthly symphony.

cRookie_Monster · Post by **cRookie_Monster** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:49 pm

some_weirdGuy wrote:I remember when I was younger I use to think that was already how it worked, imperfect and perfect having the same theme just 'perfected' as he transformed XD. When I came back to Dragonball Z again later I realised they were quite different, though I loved how it did feel like it evolved, from grudgey and horrific to a smooth and synthetic almost siren-like(as in alarm-sirens) quality.
((lol, though I guess the fact you forgot semi-perfect cell's name puts a slight damper on that earlier suggestion of giving him a specific second-form theme XD A three parter sounds amazing though))

But yeah, an evolving cell theme! Psyched, can't wait to hear what you go for with it.

If you're really going all out, you should try to include elements that originate from a hypothetical android 17 and android 18 theme(s). As if Cell's theme itself has absorbed their audio-silhouettes and cannibalised the instruments/elements/components of it's composition, twisting these to join and add his own unearthly symphony.

Wow the 17/18 theme idea is cool...I was actually the composer for that one. But man, if you knew what you were asking for! The 17-18 theme is...um...complex even though it's only *12* notes (at it's core). There's an avant garde technique I used. I think this is why Bruce loved the theme so much and did an album based on it. It tickled his professor side. I was partially considering doing something similar for the new Cell theme actually, maybe working it up slowly.

The Raichi theme I did for PTETS uses the same technique as the 17/18 theme (and is also 12 notes at it's core)
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=6287236

The Baby Cell haha. Now there's a thought as well. Maybe an intro to symbolize it?
Obviously I'm brainstorming still, but I have played around on the piano looking for a central musical "Cell" motif to build off of.

As for the evolution of Cell themes in the show...yeah they weren't so connected. I did Imperfect Cell, but then Mike did Cell's Slow theme, Cell Yells (kinda SemiPerfect Cell's theme I guess), and Perfect Cell Runs. I'm not sure what I would have done if I had done the later themes. It didn't help that we got the shows out of order.

Ok, well go ahead and keep sending your ideas if you have them

I've got my plate full of real life stuff (daughter, guests, more divorce) for the next couple weeks so I might not get much done theme wise for a bit.

El Diabeetus · Post by **El Diabeetus** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:21 pm

The larvae state theme for Cell sounds like a cool idea, maybe a music box type take on whatever you do for Imperfect Cell?

Attitudefan · Post by **Attitudefan** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:20 am

If it's not too late, I would love to hear something for Tenshinhan. He gets the shaft sometimes so I hope he could get some loving now and then.

cRookie_Monster · Post by **cRookie_Monster** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:26 am

Attitudefan wrote:If it's not too late, I would love to hear something for Tenshinhan. He gets the shaft sometimes so I hope he could get some loving now and then.

Yeah, would be interesting. I can't think of a Tien theme by anyone.

I think I came up with an evolution of "musical cells" today for...4 themes. Starting point, but I won't be able to go full on composing for a little while. Yeesh. It's an ambitious project. I might be doing this for a while

Attitudefan · Post by **Attitudefan** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:32 am

cRookie_Monster wrote:
Attitudefan wrote:If it's not too late, I would love to hear something for Tenshinhan. He gets the shaft sometimes so I hope he could get some loving now and then.
Yeah, would be interesting. I can't think of a Tenshinhan theme by anyone.

I think I came up with an evolution of "musical cells" today for...4 themes. Starting point, but I won't be able to go full on composing for a little while. Yeesh. It's an ambitious project. I might be doing this for a while

He, you could always try to do something very Chinese inspired. Something slow and methodical like his KiKoHo (cause it takes a long time to power up), or something very fast like that of an assassin. Not to mention having a light-hearted touch as that is the way Ten is. Just a thought.

Coycoy88 · Post by **Coycoy88** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:42 pm

*Scratches head* Hmm... how about a track based off of Extended Guru?

I really like your more peaceful, calm songs.

some_weirdGuy · Post by **some_weirdGuy** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:22 am

I made the mistake of saving this post as a draft due to how busy i am currently... unfortunately that means every time i came back i ended up adding more comments... sorry about the long reply XD

cRookie_Monster wrote:Wow the 17/18 theme idea is cool...I was actually the composer for that one. But man, if you knew what you were asking for! The 17-18 theme is...um...complex even though it's only *12* notes (at it's core). There's an avant garde technique I used. I think this is why Bruce loved the theme so much and did an album based on it. It tickled his professor side. I was partially considering doing something similar for the new Cell theme actually, maybe working it up slowly.

The Raichi theme I did for PTETS uses the same technique as the 17/18 theme (and is also 12 notes at it's core)
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=6287236

Yeah, I always loved your 17&18 theme*, it was so eerie and cool, incredibly atmospheric... like, it was a pivotal if not *the primary* piece for the android/cell arc, really set the tone and feel of the new saga, compared to nameks more... serene(?) general mood.
*((i also really liked the piccolo and 17 talk one, was that you or Mike?))

I went with 'hypothetical 17 and 18 themes' cause i wasn't sure if you'd want to use the existing 17&18 theme or not ... though i guess since it's specifically come up: With this new imperfect cell theme, are you going for something different to what you did before, or keeping it similar/the same?
I also mentioned them as 'hypothetical' cause 17 and 18 have a combined theme rather than separate themes/two variants, and given how much you have on your plate with just Cell alone I wasn't going to suggest actually making two new/modified versions for each android ontop of all that work with cell XD From what you're saying it also seems that even on it's own that task would be more complex than it would be for a different type of music.

But yeah, i don't know much of music composition and the challenges present/not present for certain pieces/techniques.

As for Raichi: I remember listening to this one, your raichi theme is awesome! Incredibly evocative. Hey are you still doing music professionally at the moment? I know you've got a few albums and have been doing various commissions, but are you still working as a musician/arranger/whatever title they give these days or has it become a 'freelance on the side' sort of deal?

SSJ4 Furanki wrote:
cRookie_Monster wrote:The Baby Cell haha. Now there's a thought as well. Maybe an intro to symbolize it?
The larvae state theme for Cell sounds like a cool idea, maybe a music box type take on whatever you do for Imperfect Cell?

you mean kinda like the jointoVicz mix of the resident evil theme?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBGvtkVVas0

And since we're brining up inspirations for stuff, i gotta say these two videos are the sort of thing I instantly thought of when you mentioned an 'evolving' theme - Obviously has quite a different tone and stuff to what I'd expect of a DBZ/Cell theme, but Fibre Bundles was an Animusic video, which, as part of the dvd bonus features, you could listen to the isolated mixes.
So first up here's one of the mixes, it included only the more basey elements: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQTPkt7tJJo
and after that, here's the full version with the more ambient/synth layers for comparison: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmZUj2oM ... lpage#t=36

Not exactly the same as what we were talking of here, but still a compelling comparison(for me anyway) to hear the two versions, how one has been built on from the other... Also just a good excuse to show of Animusic (go check it out if you guys are interested, it's pretty cool, 'pipe dream' tends to be a popular one) which I've always been fond of

cRookie_Monster wrote:Obviously I'm brainstorming still, but I have played around on the piano looking for a central musical "Cell" motif to build off of.

As for the evolution of Cell themes in the show...yeah they weren't so connected. I did Imperfect Cell, but then Mike did Cell's Slow theme, Cell Yells (kinda SemiPerfect Cell's theme I guess), and Perfect Cell Runs. I'm not sure what I would have done if I had done the later themes. It didn't help that we got the shows out of order.

Ok, well go ahead and keep sending your ideas if you have them I've got my plate full of real life stuff (daughter, guests, more divorce) for the next couple weeks so I might not get much done theme wise for a bit.

Mike did some really awesome work from the credits I hear attributed to him. His style I think worked well with yours, i notice he tends to do some of the more... atmospheric? type stuff(indeed such as cells slow theme, which was also a great composition). If i remember right didn't he do some of the elements in other cell theme too? Maybe it was the one currently called 'imperfect cell's theme'(the 'cell chases woman and kid' theme)? Or was that all you? I just vaguely recall a comment from you about him adding elements to one of your cell themes or something like that. Maybe it was back when i was lurking here, or some youtube comment reply...

cRookie_Monster · Post by **cRookie_Monster** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:07 pm

Thanks

I hadn't mentioned it yet but a little while ago I came up with a theme idea using the same technique that generated the 17/18 theme and Raichi's theme. My plan is to use the first 3 notes in a embryo theme, 6 notes in Imperfect Cell's theme, 9 in semi perfect, and the full theme in Perfect Cell's theme. I have some ideas for the Imperfect Cell theme and how that's going to shape up...I'm not sure people would call it similar to the old one. It also depends on which one you mean. Maybe not. It's different from both, but probably closer to the one I call the TRUE Imp. Cell theme

I consider this to the the "real" imperfect Cell theme:
http://youtu.be/72qL-EuRWJ8?t=2m7s
That part specifically was my work (the "news" music earlier in that track was recycled from another news program Mike did music for)
The track called "The Imperfect Cell theme" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z_XZt1QuiE
is actually several tracks mashed together.
I did the first section which I think is what most people think of when someone references the track.
At 1:06 an old Mike(I think) piece from the Ginyu Saga comes in.
At 1:19 a piece Mike did for Cell comes in, this one inspired by my earlier hits for Cell's footsteps shots ( 0:09 )
At 1:40 a version of Mike's "Cell Sucks Man Off"...oh sorry, I mean" Cell Kills Man" ^^ comes in. (I liked Mike's original title better hah) Ugh, even that Cell Kills Man thing is all clipped together. I can't remember where the slow part at 1:40 comes from....but then I did some brief string transition work to bring it into the actual Cell Kills man that starts at 2:12

And to complicate things further...this is the original way it aired:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St5M3gzDoKI
The change at 1:19 was an edit for the CD specifically. I think we wanted to cut out all the comedy stuff that happens after that. I believe the music that comes in at 1:19 was what Mike did for the scene that happens after the commercial break. That's why we jammed it all together. His was inspired from mine anyway. Thanks for making me think that through again lol. I had forgotten why that edit for the CD was done! The sad thing is the ending of the original version was the extended version of the TRUE imperfect Cell theme, it never got released. I didn't even remember that until some fans pointed out it was longer...and then I remember doing that for that scene ^^

Oh, and I wouldn't necessarily say Mike's true style is atmospheric.
I would say Gohan Angers, Vegeta's Theme, Heroic Trunks, Hyperbolic TIme Chamber, SSJ Transform, etc are his more popular ones and none of them really represent his more relaxed nature as a composer.

Two of his favs for the show were definitely not his most popular ones:
Gohan and Icarus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bAofAOUAo0 and (<--- he extended this one just for the CD. I'm not sure 0:48 and on was ever used.)
It's up to Dende: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBgO9MZjQqI

Here's something off his Youtube, which most people won't get...but I love this one from him. It's true Mike Smith style:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPDW3Zjle1k

Thinking about it more. It's hard to pin anyone of the 4 of us down perfectly because we all knew how to write outside of our preferred styles...and liked many styles actually. I'm more of the heavy guy. My first solo album sounds like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ4SnvcBvAY
But I also do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15AsaiXr0kI

Julius did all the Buu themes...and SSJ3.
Bruce did Ginyu Transformation...and probably the silly march music you hear in the Heaven's tournament.

Gonstead · Post by **Gonstead** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:32 pm

Oh? Mike did Gohan Angers? That's actually one of my favourite pieces in the F.P score.

Specifically this version - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2PmJLtZXW8

Actually, a piece based off of Super Saiyan 2 Gohan would be quite cool to hear.

MalikArcanum · Post by **MalikArcanum** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:18 pm

cRookie_Monster wrote: Julius did all the Buu themes...and SSJ3.
Bruce did Ginyu Transformation...and probably the silly march music you hear in the Heaven's tournament.

Julius? This is my first time hearing of him. I'd like to hear more, considering those are some of my favorite themes in the whole series.

Attitudefan · Post by **Attitudefan** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:35 pm

Heh, you should compose something for the Galick Gun vs the Kamehameha scene.

cRookie_Monster · Post by **cRookie_Monster** » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:05 pm

MalikArcanum wrote:
cRookie_Monster wrote: Julius did all the Buu themes...and SSJ3.
Bruce did Ginyu Transformation...and probably the silly march music you hear in the Heaven's tournament.

Julius? This is my first time hearing of him. I'd like to hear more, considering those are some of my favorite themes in the whole series.

http://www.juliusdobos.com/

Oh wow, his new default music on his site is very DBZ ^^ (edit actually, that's from 2010..oops)

He has a youtube as well:
http://www.youtube.com/juliusdobos

Julius joined the studio just before I left. For a while I wasn't sure of his level of involvement, but I know now that after Mike left (somewhere before Buu) he pretty much took over.

some_weirdGuy · Post by **some_weirdGuy** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:18 am

cRookie_Monster wrote:I consider this to the the "real" imperfect Cell theme:
[snipped bulk of content for brevity sake]. I didn't even remember that until some fans pointed out it was longer...and then I remember doing that for that scene ^^

I love it when you do these breakdowns! You are fantastic, it's awesome that you can re-indentify and/or remember this sort of stuff. Seriously, thanks for taking the time to do this, it's awesome to read over and learn some of the process/credits/elements behind it all. If you ever work up the patience to do more (i don't blame you if you don't want to though), I'd definitely want to know about them

cRookie_Monster wrote:I hadn't mentioned it yet but a little while ago I came up with a theme idea using the same technique that generated the 17/18 theme and Raichi's theme. My plan is to use the first 3 notes in a embryo theme, 6 notes in Imperfect Cell's theme, 9 in semi perfect, and the full theme in Perfect Cell's theme. I have some ideas for the Imperfect Cell theme and how that's going to shape up...I'm not sure people would call it similar to the old one. It also depends on which one you mean. Maybe not. It's different from both, but probably closer to the one I call the TRUE Imp. Cell theme

yeah, the 'cell arrives' theme is definitely his 'true' theme, the one most similar to your cell jam session video

That sounds cool with the growing notes. One thing that might be interesting would be to have a brief 'back with a vengance' segment after the song finishes, just like how in the show cell self-destructed but then came back stronger than before for one last beam struggle.

Infact, now that I mention it, potentially following cells whole biological 'story' with the song could also be interesting, given he actually assumed each one of his forms twice.... something i only just realised now that I gave it some thought.
(larval -> imperfect -> egg/larval again(to fit in stolen time machine) -> imperfect(again) -> semi-perfect -> perfect -> semi-perfect(again, after regurgitating 18) -> perfect(again, 'super perfect').

Oh, and I wouldn't necessarily say Mike's true style is atmospheric.
-snipped to save space-

Oh yeah, definitely, I agree that you guys have proven to be very flexible and do well with whatever you apply yourself to, i didn't mean in a typecast way or that you had just one 'style'. I just mean that it felt to me as though that your stuff naturally gravitated more towards heavier/darker, you have more of a Metal inclination, while some of his stuff by comparison was lighter, more 'airy'((though he did apparently a bulk of dbz's music, so he definitely had varing range). Your two examples of gohan&icarus and up to dende are actually good indications of what I mean by 'lighter' or 'atmospheric'(maybe not the best word for it). Though certainly stuff like vegeta's theme sit on the other end of it.

I suspect some of it comes down to you guys choosing(when you have the option ofcourse) to do the stuff which matches the style you're most interested in. I think I remember you mentioned somewhere about specifically choosing to do the Garlic Jr stuff cause it was what you liked or what you were good at or something(cause of the guitar? ...either way, I definitely remember you mentioning in regards to garlic jr stuff that the guitar was real, and that before you come they used synthesised)

Kinda off topic, but did you do the theme called Demon Mist?
---

On an unrelated note, more suggestions for music, but on the less serious side of the spectrum:
>First one i was watching the cell games re-enactment, and thinking about various youtube parody videos, and made me think it would be hilarious to hear like funny/cheesy/jokey bastardisations of dbz character themes, as if the entire show was done like that cell games re-enactment and had goofy music to match

>The other concept come from watching your jingle ball z video again; taking a dbz theme and re-styling it using the audio-silhouette of another.
eg. pikkons instrumentation playing cells theme, deadzone instrumentation for ..grand kai theme?

, etc.
lol, or here's one that would be good value, take the droids vs bikers theme and switch the instrumentation so the intense 'biker' parts are the icecream truck instruments and the shreddy metal instruments are used to play the calm parts XD.

cRookie_Monster · Post by **cRookie_Monster** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:18 pm

Thanks

Yup Demon Mist was one of mine as well. That and the Garlic Jr Theme were the last two tracks I did with guitar synths only. Later on I actually looked at redoing Demon Mist with real guitar...and some of it worked, but I had written it for synth and overall it sounded weird to me so I left it. Probably would have helped if I had a seven string guitar.... I should try it again ^^

The first track I played real guitar on was "Gohan Fights Frieza"(low power chords starting at 0:13) which first showed up when Gohan kills the Spice Boys. The 2nd real guitar track was Dead Zone though it has does have some synth mixed in.

MalikArcanum · Post by **MalikArcanum** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:21 am

cRookie_Monster wrote:Thanks

Yup Demon Mist was one of mine as well. That and the Garlic Jr Theme were the last two tracks I did with guitar synths only. Later on I actually looked at redoing Demon Mist with real guitar...and some of it worked, but I had written it for synth and overall it sounded weird to me so I left it. Probably would have helped if I had a seven string guitar.... I should try it again ^^

Don't tease me like that, man.

cRookie_Monster · Post by **cRookie_Monster** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:45 am

MalikArcanum wrote:
cRookie_Monster wrote:Thanks

Yup Demon Mist was one of mine as well. That and the Garlic Jr Theme were the last two tracks I did with guitar synths only. Later on I actually looked at redoing Demon Mist with real guitar...and some of it worked, but I had written it for synth and overall it sounded weird to me so I left it. Probably would have helped if I had a seven string guitar.... I should try it again ^^

Don't tease me like that, man.

Hahaha, that gif...ohhh my.

Kanzenshuu

One more time: Z Music suggestions :)

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