Strength of Evil Majin Buu & Pure Majin Buu

[Rockman X]

Okay first off all i'm not going to accept that "So&So said someone was stronger or weaker so it proves this character is stronger" no it doesn't!

Most of the DBZ characters either overestimate or underestimate their enemies so i'm just going to refer to direct fights as evidence rather than using absurdly out of context lines like "Goku is afraid of fighting super buu" "Goku was confident to fight kid buu"

Ultimate gohan beat super buu fair&square and now all i want to know is exactly how weak is SSj3 Goku compared to him? because as far as i can tell SSJ3 Goku could not overpower Kid buu like gohan overpowered Super buu so it only proves that kid buu is as strong as Super buu.

All that scan proves is that Kid Buu > Fat Buu, not Super Buu.

No it proves that kaioshins weakened majin buu and as long as kais were a part of majin buu he was WEAK and fat buu was the core of super buu who had all the kais inside of him so you do the math on which buu is weaker.

It's never stated that the Kaioshin weakened Super Buu, and it is indirectly stated that they strengthened him.

WHAT!? kais strengthened him? okay how about clips of DBZ ? is that illegal too? whatever i'll just quote the original Jap version of what kai says :-

"His heart through absorption has allowed his power to even be reduced has returned to his original pure evil form without any self-control" if that's not enough in the manga it is clearly stated that kai absorption weakened majin buu and Fat buu is evidently the core of super buu.

yet it is fair to use it against Super Buu, and in fact the only way to stand a chance. Pretty clear.

"pretty clear" in a sense that Superbuu was fused with Goten,trunks,piccolo and Gohan which forced vegeta&goku to fuse.

[Blade]

I look at it this way:

1) Dai Kaioshin weakened Buu dramatically, by not only reducing his power, but also by altering his temperament and nature. So essentially, this is why Fat Buu was weaker than both Buff Buu and Kid Buu.

2) Absorbing Southern Kaioshin appears to have made Buu exponentially stronger. So 'Buff Buu' was more powerful than the original Kid Buu.

3) Super Buu appears to have had more access to Buff Buu's power than Fat Buu did, but was still weakened somewhat by Dai Kaoshin's place in Fat Buu's makeup. So Super Buu, whilst being stronger than both Kid Buu or Fat Buu, is weaker than Buff Buu.

This is supported by Goku's assertion that he and Vegeta would be no match for Super Buu, his observation that Buu's 'power was going up' when Buff Buu appeared momentarily, and finally his claim that 'Now we can do something!' once Buu had fully reverted to his original form.

In short:

Buff Buu > Super Buu > Kid Buu > Fat Buu

In regard to Kid Buu, most of the fearful comments that Goku, Vegeta and Kibitoshin make about him seem to be more related to his wild, unhinged temperament, that unlike his previous forms is more reckless and destructive with his power, and less open to reason.

[Rockman X]

1) Dai Kaioshin weakened Buu dramatically, by not only reducing his power, but also by altering his temperament and nature. So essentially, this is why Fat Buu was weaker than both Buff Buu and Kid Buu.

This is speculative we don't know how strong buff buu was compared to kid buu and as we know it Kais in general weaken buu not only daikaio but also South supreme kai.

2) Absorbing Southern Kaioshin appears to have made Buu exponentially stronger.

kais don't strengthen buu anything kai related like potara earrings is repellent to majin buu.

Watch this video if you're still confused about kai&majin buu > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTUvyIsoUNI

This is supported by Goku's assertion that he and Vegeta would be no match for Super Buu

I'm not going to debate on that.. that's a moot point made by goku and as i already stated DBZ characters almost always underestimate/overestimate characters unless they fight we can't tell for sure who is stronger.

[Dbzfan94]

You can't be taken seriously of you're gonna start out a VS debate with "I don't care what the manga/anime says, it's not true!" You have to take in what the characters say. In this case, it's Goku indirectly stating "he'll kill us if we fight him."

Goku and Vegeta would've gotten easily killed by Super Buu. Yet when Goku fought Kid Buu as a SSJ3, he was doing really well until he let the fight drag on, to let Vegeta have a turn.

[Mystic Buu]

I look at it this way:

1) Dai Kaioshin weakened Buu dramatically, by not only reducing his power, but also by altering his temperament and nature. So essentially, this is why Fat Buu was weaker than both Buff Buu and Kid Buu.

2) Absorbing Southern Kaioshin appears to have made Buu exponentially stronger. So 'Buff Buu' was more powerful than the original Kid Buu.

3) Super Buu appears to have had more access to Buff Buu's power than Fat Buu did, but was still weakened somewhat by Dai Kaoshin's place in Fat Buu's makeup. So Super Buu, whilst being stronger than both Kid Buu or Fat Buu, is weaker than Buff Buu.

This is supported by Goku's assertion that he and Vegeta would be no match for Super Buu, his observation that Buu's 'power was going up' when Buff Buu appeared momentarily, and finally his claim that 'Now we can do something!' once Buu had fully reverted to his original form.

In short:

Buff Buu > Super Buu > Kid Buu > Fat Buu

In regard to Kid Buu, most of the fearful comments that Goku, Vegeta and Kibitoshin make about him seem to be more related to his wild, unhinged temperament, that unlike his previous forms is more reckless and destructive with his power, and less open to reason.

Good explanation,I also stick with that.

[Zephyr]

It's really as simple as this.

When Super Buu was their opponent: "Vegeta, we have to fuse!"

When Kid Buu was their opponent: "Aww yeah Vegeta, we can take him!" *breaks Potara*

[Polyphase Avatron]

Super Buu. There is no cogent argument otherwise.

[hleV]

There is way more evidence to Evil Boo being superior to Pure Boo, so the conclusion should be clear to anyone who isn't blinded by their pre-made opinions or fanboyism.

[Super Vegetto]

Nothing compering those two, but Goku can't deflect that ?

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P8.7
Context: Boo forms a big ki blast
Goku: “It-it’s huge…! You’ve got to be kidding…! Do-does he intend to unleash that…!? …We can’t knock back something like that…!”

[Darkprince410]

I'm not going to debate on that.. that's a moot point made by goku and as i already stated DBZ characters almost always underestimate/overestimate characters unless they fight we can't tell for sure who is stronger.

That's actually rarely true, rather than always being true. Unless the individual they're estimating the strength of is knowingly holding back (in the cases of the different Buus this is never suggested), there's rarely ever a situation of overestimating or underestimating their strength. Goku knew full well he and Vegeta couldn't defeat Evil Buu upon leaving, and insisted that if they're not going to use the Potaras, they should try to weaken him further. Then when Evil Buu reverted to Kaioushin Buu, it was established that he was getting stronger rather than weaker (meaning that the fat Dai Kaioushin's influence, now gone, was what weakened him). Then when he reverted to Pure Buu, Goku commented that he was now at a level to where they could get something done with him, indicating that he had lost power and beforehand was too strong for them to handle.

Nothing compering those two, but Goku can't deflect that ?

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P8.7
Context: Boo forms a big ki blast
Goku: “It-it’s huge…! You’ve got to be kidding…! Do-does he intend to unleash that…!? …We can’t knock back something like that…!”

We've seen before that even if a blast is weaker than the target, if the size and force behind it is sufficient enough (Freeza being unable to stop the Genki Dama, Cell not being able to counter Tenshinhan's Shin Ki Kou Hou, etc.), then the target cannot block or deflect it.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

I'm not going to debate on that.. that's a moot point made by goku and as i already stated DBZ characters almost always underestimate/overestimate characters unless they fight we can't tell for sure who is stronger.

That's actually rarely true, rather than always being true. Unless the individual they're estimating the strength of is knowingly holding back (in the cases of the different Buus this is never suggested), there's rarely ever a situation of overestimating or underestimating their strength. Goku knew full well he and Vegeta couldn't defeat Evil Buu upon leaving, and insisted that if they're not going to use the Potaras, they should try to weaken him further. Then when Evil Buu reverted to Kaioushin Buu, it was established that he was getting stronger rather than weaker (meaning that the fat Dai Kaioushin's influence, now gone, was what weakened him). Then when he reverted to Pure Buu, Goku commented that he was now at a level to where they could get something done with him, indicating that he had lost power and beforehand was too strong for them to handle.

Nothing compering those two, but Goku can't deflect that ?

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P8.7
Context: Boo forms a big ki blast
Goku: “It-it’s huge…! You’ve got to be kidding…! Do-does he intend to unleash that…!? …We can’t knock back something like that…!”

We've seen before that even if a blast is weaker than the target, if the size and force behind it is sufficient enough (Freeza being unable to stop the Genki Dama, Cell not being able to counter Tenshinhan's Shin Ki Kou Hou, etc.), then the target cannot block or deflect it.

But doesn't the force behind it get determined by how powerful it is? But anyway, I guess you are right seeing as how much weaker Tenshinhan is than Cell is in any form. I actually saw it as that if you start creating a ki blast of that magnitude, it manipulates your ki and keeps stacking up.
For example. Piccolo was weaker than Raditz, but Piccolo's Makankosappo > Raditz.
That is a clear clue how Goku would have wiped out Pure Boo. They were roughly even in their fight, but due to limitations in a living body with SSJ3, Goku failed to achieve his goal into destroying him.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

I'm not going to debate on that.. that's a moot point made by goku and as i already stated DBZ characters almost always underestimate/overestimate characters unless they fight we can't tell for sure who is stronger.

That's actually rarely true, rather than always being true. Unless the individual they're estimating the strength of is knowingly holding back (in the cases of the different Buus this is never suggested), there's rarely ever a situation of overestimating or underestimating their strength. Goku knew full well he and Vegeta couldn't defeat Evil Buu upon leaving, and insisted that if they're not going to use the Potaras, they should try to weaken him further. Then when Evil Buu reverted to Kaioushin Buu, it was established that he was getting stronger rather than weaker (meaning that the fat Dai Kaioushin's influence, now gone, was what weakened him). Then when he reverted to Pure Buu, Goku commented that he was now at a level to where they could get something done with him, indicating that he had lost power and beforehand was too strong for them to handle.

Nothing compering those two, but Goku can't deflect that ?

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P8.7
Context: Boo forms a big ki blast
Goku: “It-it’s huge…! You’ve got to be kidding…! Do-does he intend to unleash that…!? …We can’t knock back something like that…!”

We've seen before that even if a blast is weaker than the target, if the size and force behind it is sufficient enough (Freeza being unable to stop the Genki Dama, Cell not being able to counter Tenshinhan's Shin Ki Kou Hou, etc.), then the target cannot block or deflect it.

But doesn't the force behind it get determined by how powerful it is? Freeza wasn't even full power when the Genki Dama launched to him. But anyway, I guess you are right seeing as how much weaker Tenshinhan is than Cell is in any form. I actually saw it as that if you start creating a ki blast of that magnitude, it manipulates your ki and keeps stacking up.
For example. Piccolo was weaker than Raditz, but Piccolo's Makankosappo > Raditz.
That is a clear clue how Goku would have wiped out Pure Boo. They were roughly even in their fight, but due to limitations in a living body with SSJ3, Goku failed to achieve his goal into destroying him.

[sekzee]

Goku and Vegeta would've gotten easily killed by Super Buu. Yet when Goku fought Kid Buu as a SSJ3, he was doing really well until he let the fight drag on, to let Vegeta have a turn.

False. Goku confirms it had nothing to do with Vegeta.

[Dbzfan94]

Goku and Vegeta would've gotten easily killed by Super Buu. Yet when Goku fought Kid Buu as a SSJ3, he was doing really well until he let the fight drag on, to let Vegeta have a turn.

False. Goku confirms it had nothing to do with Vegeta.

My point still stands.

[Hugo Boss]

We can't tell for sure. Evil Boo was said to be stronger than both Goku & Vegeta (without fusion), but he never directly fights them in manga. They hoped they could defeat Pure Boo, but the situation turned completely out of their control. Even SS3 Goku & SS2 Vegeta failed to accomplish their promises to defeat Pure Boo.

[RandomGuy96]

No it proves that kaioshins weakened majin buu and as long as kais were a part of majin buu he was WEAK and fat buu was the core of super buu who had all the kais inside of him so you do the math on which buu is weaker.

It doesn't prove anything. Dai Kaioshin is mentioned to have weakened Buu down into Fat Buu. Super Buu is stated to be stronger than both Fat Buu and SS3 Goku, who was equal to if not slightly stronger than Pure Buu.

As hlev noted, there's absolutely no reason to believe Super Buu is weaker unless you're a fanboy going in with preconceived notions.

WHAT!? kais strengthened him? okay how about clips of DBZ ? is that illegal too? whatever i'll just quote the original Jap version of what kai says :-

"His heart through absorption has allowed his power to even be reduced has returned to his original pure evil form without any self-control" if that's not enough in the manga it is clearly stated that kai absorption weakened majin buu and Fat buu is evidently the core of super buu.

DB anime means shit. He was never stated to be weakened by both asborptions in the manga. Only the Dai Kaioshin is mentioned having weakened him. Just keep making stuff up, though, it's quite amusing.

Again, Goku stated that Super Buu would slaughter him easily, then fought evenly with Pure Buu. I'm not sure what else you want.

I'd also like to note that Goku said Gotenks was stronger than him well before Gotenks obtained SS3 (which greatly shocked Goku).

"pretty clear" in a sense that Superbuu was fused with Goten,trunks,piccolo and Gohan which forced vegeta&goku to fuse.

Apparently you missed the part where he recommended using fusion against unfused base Super Buu.

When Super Buu was their opponent: "Vegeta, we have to fuse!"

When Kid Buu was their opponent: "Aww yeah Vegeta, we can take him!" *breaks Potara*

Apparently, not simple enough.

[Rockman X]

It's really as simple as this.

When Super Buu was their opponent: "Vegeta, we have to fuse!"

When Kid Buu was their opponent: "Aww yeah Vegeta, we can take him!" *breaks Potara*

I'm talking about This super buu :-

You are talking about THIS Super buu :-

"I don't care what the manga/anime says, it's not true!"

Hey stop straw manning me! i never said i don't care about anime/manga i just said that not everything characters say is true like vegeta gloating about his power against Freeza's final form now how good was vegeta's speculation of Freeza's power? not even close!

DBZ is infamous for characters overestimating/underestimating their enemies.. so only direct fights counts as evidence in this case and as i see it Ultimate gohan and SSj3 Goku are pretty similar in power levels with gohan having little bit more power.

Yet when Goku fought Kid Buu as a SSJ3, he was doing really well until he let the fight drag on, to let Vegeta have a turn.

Goku was not holding back vegeta says that goku would be able to kill buu at full power and he clearly says

"That's what i've been trying to do but i haven't been able to do it yet!"

Goku clearly underestimated Buu's power and he admits it in the manga "Like i said he's stronger than i imagined".

[Rockman X]

Apparently you missed the part where he recommended using fusion against unfused base Super Buu.

OH PLEASE WHERE IS THIS PART?? I must have really missed this one! Because all i have seen is goku fusing to fight GOHAN absorbed Super buu.. oh wait.. unless you're thinking that SSj goten&SSJ trunks are anywhere near as strong SSj goku and stood a chance against fat buu without fusion.

Dai Kaioshin is mentioned to have weakened Buu down into Fat Buu. Super Buu is stated to be stronger than both Fat Buu and SS3 Goku, who was equal to if not slightly stronger than Pure Buu.

Dude i don't care who said what! i refer to direct fights as evidence not vague statements made by characters.

By your unrealistic power scaling Gohan is like 1000 times stronger than SSJ3 goku which i don't think is the case at all.

there's absolutely no reason to believe Super Buu is weaker.

Yeah there is like fat buu weakening Super buu?

I'm not sure what else you want.

ACTUAL FIGHTS as evidence,thank you.

I'd also like to note that Goku said Gotenks was

Actual fights please.

[Cetra]

It's really as simple as this.

When Super Buu was their opponent: "Vegeta, we have to fuse!"

When Kid Buu was their opponent: "Aww yeah Vegeta, we can take him!" *breaks Potara*

I'm talking about This super buu :-

You are talking about THIS Super buu :-

Not exactly. Goku also wanted to stop Vegeta from breaking the Earrings inside of Boo and when he lost power he complained about Vegeta doing so. However, I also think it is not as clear as it is normally said. Goku often talks about an opponent being so strong while he himself has some jokers and when he wanted to help Gohan he even went to fight Boo without a plan right before the Elder Kaioshin said "how do you plan to beat him? even you two are not gonna do this" so at that time he was confident enough. Even Akira Toriyama said about the Demonic Entity Boo he has unknown dimensions of powers that probably not even Boo himself knows. When I think aboutn that, it also reminds me of Goku and Gohan themselves.

[Rockman X]

Goku also wanted to stop Vegeta from breaking the Earrings inside of Boo and when he lost power he complained about Vegeta doing so.

Again a vauge statement made by goku because he was uncertain about buu's power levels,goku was unsure about his SSj3 form's powers and if it stood chance against buu after transforming.