Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the end?
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Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the end?
Considering that Vegeta spent maybe the first 30 or so years of his life as a homicidal space pirate that probably wiped out who knows how many innocent beings throughout the Universe, it seems a bit unsettling that by the end of the series, he was more or less accepted as a friend to Goku and the others, and he even was able to settle down and have a family. Anyone else think when all is said and done, Vegeta got off a bit too easy?
I mean sure, he died twice over the course of the series, and his homicidal traits seemed to have pretty much vanished by the end, but still. I don't think I even recall him showing the slightest bit of remorse over the possible billions of beings that he was responsible for killing at any point in the manga, or the anime.
I mean sure, he died twice over the course of the series, and his homicidal traits seemed to have pretty much vanished by the end, but still. I don't think I even recall him showing the slightest bit of remorse over the possible billions of beings that he was responsible for killing at any point in the manga, or the anime.
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Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
Tenshinhan agrees with you as he never forgave him.
Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
I don't know about the Japanese dialog, but in the English version during the Boo saga, he made sure the wish to bring people back to life included those he killed at the Tournament.
But yeah I can see where you're coming from, he was an incredibly evil person who killed without remorse while under the watch of Freeza.
But yeah I can see where you're coming from, he was an incredibly evil person who killed without remorse while under the watch of Freeza.
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Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
Those people already died once and thus cannot be brought back.
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Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
Eh, I don't see any point in letting his past deeds define who he is in the present. There's no changing the past, and, frankly, the person he is today isn't the person he was, so in a way, that "homicidal pirate" has already been killed.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
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Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
Who we are in the present is defined by our actions, including the past. How can you possibly dismiss that? The person that came back from the dead wasn't a brand new being. True justice would be for Vegeta to go to Hell, literally, after Buu was defeated. It's poetic justice given that he's largely responsible for Buu's resurrection.Fionordequester wrote:Eh, I don't see any point in letting his past deeds define who he is in the present. There's no changing the past, and, frankly, the person he is today isn't the person he was, so in a way, that "homicidal pirate" has already been killed.
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Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
It'd be easy to dismiss his past deeds if he had changed by, say, the Android/Cell saga, but he was still a dick until the very end. All of a sudden he wants to play hero by sacrificing himself when it was him who essentially let Buu loose and indirectly killed billions as a result.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
Are people forgetting it takes two people to fight? Goku was just as responsible for the hatching of Boo as Vegeta. Goku could have taken out Fat Boo too, but didn't. Vegeta atleast was fighting to kill him.
Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
WittyUsername wrote:Considering that Vegeta spent maybe the first 30 or so years of his life as a homicidal space pirate that probably wiped out who knows how many innocent beings throughout the Universe, it seems a bit unsettling that by the end of the series, he was more or less accepted as a friend to Goku and the others, and he even was able to settle down and have a family. Anyone else think when all is said and done, Vegeta got off a bit too easy?
I mean sure, he died twice over the course of the series, and his homicidal traits seemed to have pretty much vanished by the end, but still. I don't think I even recall him showing the slightest bit of remorse over the possible billions of beings that he was responsible for killing at any point in the manga, or the anime.
In the end, he is more help than a threat
even before the end of Z he is more a helpful character than a threat.
So no I don't think Bejita was forgiven easily because most of the time he didn't have much to say, and knows his place in the league. Goku And Piccolo deftly surpassed and cracked his pride before, So he didn't have much to say.
Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
its not that its simply dismissed, but having a view like that of Goku's. No one is inherently evil. Only actions are. While Vegeta most certainly was pushed and raised by his culture and upbringing to commit many awful atrocities for a good portion of his life, when he met Goku his personality instantly began to change as he was influenced by the purity of Goku's character and allowed him to grow and truly learn the meaning of inner peace and self acceptance. Goku saw through the evil background and persona as he sees through all of his enemies. Goku always tries to be fair and merciful to all of his enemies because he realizes that it truly is never too late to change and that no one is beyond redemption. And while it took the entire series of him making mistake after mistake, kicking and screaming, he finally did truly repent in his heart. So its like the other guy said, the evil man responsible for mass murder at last was vanquished. I think the karma of the constant hell he endured and carried within himself until that point and the 2 real deaths he suffered were plenty sufficient punishment.ABED wrote:Who we are in the present is defined by our actions, including the past. How can you possibly dismiss that? The person that came back from the dead wasn't a brand new being. True justice would be for Vegeta to go to Hell, literally, after Buu was defeated. It's poetic justice given that he's largely responsible for Buu's resurrection.Fionordequester wrote:Eh, I don't see any point in letting his past deeds define who he is in the present. There's no changing the past, and, frankly, the person he is today isn't the person he was, so in a way, that "homicidal pirate" has already been killed.
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Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
Vegeta is the one who initiated the fight with Goku. It was senseless, and he picked the worst time to engage in it. He knew damn well what the consequences of playing to Babidi's games were. Goku, on the other hand, was only psychologically forced into it when he started killing innocent people.LordCrumb wrote:Are people forgetting it takes two people to fight? Goku was just as responsible for the hatching of Boo as Vegeta. Goku could have taken out Fat Boo too, but didn't. Vegeta atleast was fighting to kill him.
And before SSJ3 is brought up, there was no way he was going to sacrifice his time on Earth to beat Vegeta with that form when he felt he could win without it.
For the record, I agree that Goku did A LOT of stupid things in this saga. He's not off the hook either.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
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Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
I know many don't like this line of thought, but Toriyama doesn't think ahead. When he was writing the Vegeta fight, he probably had yet to think up SS3. When he got to SS3, he didn't think Goku would come back and be the hero again, so to him Goku was fighting Buu at his best. It's only through a retcon that we get Goku helping let Buu loose. However, that doesn't stick well with me since when has Goku ever let a bad guy go without intending to fight them again?Are people forgetting it takes two people to fight? Goku was just as responsible for the hatching of Boo as Vegeta. Goku could have taken out Fat Boo too, but didn't. Vegeta atleast was fighting to kill him.
But as mentioned above, Vegeta was the one that instigated the fight. He allowed Babidi to imbue him with the evil power.
We are our actions. Inherently evil is a contradiction. Evil implies choice. Vegeta chose to murder people, including children.No one is inherently evil. Only actions are.
Goku let him go because he wanted to fight a strong opponent, not out of mercy. 2 deaths is getting off light. He did WAY worse to people. A truly repentant man would recognize their bad deed and be willing to pay the consequences. What constant hell are you referring to? He was never conflicted over the lives he took. He was a psychopath. The hell he put himself thought was due to his insecure, macho BS.Goku saw through the evil background and persona as he sees through all of his enemies. Goku always tries to be fair and merciful to all of his enemies because he realizes that it truly is never too late to change and that no one is beyond redemption. And while it took the entire series of him making mistake after mistake, kicking and screaming, he finally did truly repent in his heart. So its like the other guy said, the evil man responsible for mass murder at last was vanquished. I think the karma of the constant hell he endured and carried within himself until that point and the 2 real deaths he suffered were plenty sufficient punishment.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
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Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
The Draco In Leather Pants is strong in this thread.
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Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
If it makes you feel any better, he's still going to Hell when he dies.
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Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
I'm not sure about that. Porunga apparently considered Vegeta a good guy, and it seems like Toriyama wanted to suggest that Vegeta being willing to put his grudge against Goku behind him was the ultimate sign of his redemption.Rocketman wrote:If it makes you feel any better, he's still going to Hell when he dies.
Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
I think Bejita was a broken child living under suppression he didn't know betterABED wrote:. He allowed Babidi to imbue him with the evil power.
We are our actions. Inherently evil is a contradiction. Evil implies choice. Vegeta chose to murder people, including children.No one is inherently evil. Only actions are.
His character/evilness is not like other foes. He was like that because the way he lived his life, Goku made him realize that he can change his ways. Anime creators like Toriyama base most characters of real life.
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Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
God the post above mine. GOD.
Just...
"Bejita" isnt some innocent little flower. Even in his death bed , he never regretted what he did or even make any excuses for it. It would be more understandable if you were talking about the dub which DID try to Romanticize and Rationalize what he did. But no, you explicitly said "Bejita" so there's no doubt you are talking about the Japanese Version.
How can ANYONE be this WRONG?
God!
Just...
"Bejita" isnt some innocent little flower. Even in his death bed , he never regretted what he did or even make any excuses for it. It would be more understandable if you were talking about the dub which DID try to Romanticize and Rationalize what he did. But no, you explicitly said "Bejita" so there's no doubt you are talking about the Japanese Version.
How can ANYONE be this WRONG?
God!
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Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
Sad thing is, if Vegeta died now in Toriyama's new stories, not only would he not go to hell, but he'd probably also keep his body.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
Re: Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the
What do you want to happen to him? He is pretty much a good guy permanently now, punishing him now would serve no purpose. It would be really hard on his family too if he didn't end up in the afterlife with them. I'm fine with him keeping his body too, if only because Goku would love an eternal sparring partner like him and he's always available if anything bad happens.