Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Kamiccolo9]

And Toriyama has possibly broken power levels. I love it.

If this stuff is true, I consider it a chance to come up with a new system to hold us over. That sounds more fun than the tired old "lazy incompetent Toriyama doesn't know his own series" crap.

[Skar]

And Toriyama has possibly broken power levels. I love it.

If this stuff is true, I consider it a chance to come up with a new system to hold us over. That sounds more fun than the tired old "lazy incompetent Toriyama doesn't know his own series" crap.

I considered power levels broken since they were introduced . They were okay when they were in the thousands but became too inflated too fast. It doesn't help that we don't know what the numbers mean since the scale kept changing throughout the manga. The only problem I have with Freeza's power level of 1.37 million is that it conflicts with what we see during the Freeza saga. Goku was 90,000 against Ginyu so his Kaioken x20 would've been over 1.8 million without taking into account his Zenkai. 2nd form Freeza was "over million". 50% Freeza would have to be at least 1,000,001 and his 100% form at least two million. The power level is minor compared to the other complaints I have about the movie so I guess it's not that big of deal.

[Herms]

The 1.37 million thing is apparently something Freeza says in his first form shortly after being revived, so it's not necessarily supposed to apply to Golden Freeza. Hmmm...if we go with the idea that's Freeza's final form (true form, whatever) is his equivalent of a Saiyan's base form, and Golden Freeza is his equivalent of Super Saiyan God, then...if his first form goes from 530,000 to 1,370,000, we could assume his final form likewise goes from 120,000,000 to about 310,000,000. And if we assume going Golden has the same sort of increase as Super Saiyan God...whatever the hell that is, but let's just assume it's ten times Super Saiyan 3, so 4,000...then that gets you 1,240,000,000,000, or 1.24 trillion. It's no 100 quintillion, but not too shabby.

*ahem*

But what I really came here for is to ask about is Japanese DB battle power fansite extraordinaire Chou-Koshiki ("Super Official"). It's a site that aims to be as thorough as humanely possible both with the sources it looks at (manga, anime, guides, video games, Carddass, etc), and with the scope of things it assigns speculative battle powers for (that mermaid Goku brings to Kame House, the average Yardratian, etc). Someone asked over in the translation thread about the possibility about getting the entire site translated, and the short of it is that there's probably not enough money or drugs to make me. So I thought maybe I could just do a general overview, just translating the character names/forms and the numbers...but that's probably the sort of thing you could just do with Google Translate, which makes me think someone probably has done it already. I guess could throw in a brief summary of the logic behind the numbers, since that's probably something that wouldn't necessarily come across too well in a Google translation. It seems like the sort of thing I could probably just bang out while watching TV. So my questions are A) has this already been done? and B) would there be any interest in me doing this?

[Hugo Boss]

I don't know if it was done, but I have interest in seeing those numbers. Not a great interest, but some.

[Skar]

The legendary super Herms-sama!!!!! Hi nice to meet you. I looked at the site with Google translate and the numbers seem to show up fine. The descriptions are a little off but you can kinda get a general idea of what they're talking about.

[Blackstripe]

So, this is a power level list I did over the course of a few hours. My ultimate goal was to basically see if I could keep all of the power levels fairly low without violating any clear cut statements made in the Manga. Not easy, since I also cover Battle of Gods at the end of it.

Cell Saga

Return of Frieza
Son Gohan – 1,000,000
Kuririn – 14,000
Yamucha – 8,200
Tenshinhan – 32,000
Vegeta – 2,800,000
Piccolo – 2,400,000
Planet Trade Empire soldiers – ~1,000
Cyborg Frieza – 40,500,000
(Unseen full power) – 135,000,000
Trunks – 3,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 150,000,000
King Cold – 45,000,000
(Unseen third form) – 75,000,000
(Unseen final form) – 145,000,000
Son Gokuu – 3,100,000
(Super Saiyan) – 155,000,000

Now, King Cold is entirely speculation on my part. I will not deny it. It does however make sense from a character standpoint. He is King Cold. Does Frieza really seem like the type to defer such a title to someone weaker than him? Did Cold seem like the type to restore (and strengthen!) someone more powerful than himself when he was trying to bargain with Trunks?

Of course, I don’t think he’s as ludicrously powerful as Dragonball Multiverese makes him. I think he has to still be weaker than Super Saiyan Trunks, enough so that he would feel it probably wasn’t worth even trying to transform.

In Fukkatsu no F, Frieza recounted his father instructing him to never lay his hands on Beerus or Majin Buu, so he ¬did have authority over him.

Arrival of the Cyborgs
Kuririn – 20,000 (There’s really no evidence he surpassed the Ginyu Force or even Zarbon/Dodoria. Pure humans are just weak, even the relatively strong ones.)
Yamucha – 14,500
Yajirobe – 650
Tenshinhan – 135,000 Son Gohan – 3,250,000
Son Gokuu – 3,400,000
(Super Saiyan) – 170,000,000
(Sick) – 35,000,000
#19 – 20,000,000
(Goku’s energy absorbed) – 50,000,000
(Vegeta’s energy absorbed) – 110,000,000
(Disarmed) – 45,000,000 and dropping.
#20 – 25,000,000
(Vegeta and Piccolo’s energy absorbed) – 75,000,000
Vegeta – 3,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 175,000,000
(Energy drained) – 115,000,000
Piccolo – 100,000,000
(without weights) – 135,000,000
Trunks – 3,300,000
(Super Saiyan) – 165,000,000
#18 – 180,000,000

An Invader from the Future
Nameless Namekian – 165,000,000
(without weights) – 190,000,000
(tired) 182,000,000
#17 – 190,000,000
Imperfect Cell – 150,000,000
(humans absorbed) – 210,000,000
#16 – 210,000,000
Semi-Perfect Cell – 305,000,000
(Full power) – 400,000,000
Shin Kikoho – 150,000,000
Vegeta – 6,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 325,000,000
(Grade 2) – 487,500,000
Trunks – 6,300,000
(Super Saiyan) 315,000,000
(Grade 2) – 472,500,000
(Grade 3) – 567,000,000
Perfect Cell – 450,000,000
(Warm up) – 500,000,000
(vs Trunks) – 550,000,000
(Bulked up) – 990,000,000
Son Gokuu – 22,000,000
(Half Power Super Saiyan) – 550,000,000

Cell Games

Mr. Satan – 16.5 (Do keep in mind my start of Dragon Ball Gokuu is about 25, since I don’t follow the Daiz. I figure he should at least be on the level of some of the better 21st Tournament Preliminary fighters. He did apparently win his renown fairly, after all.)
Vegeta – 12,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 600,000,000
Trunks – 11,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 575,000,000
Piccolo – 500,000,000
Cell Jr.’s – 650,000,000
Son Gokuu – 1,100,000,000
(Warp Kamehameha) – 1,200,000,000
(Tired) – 450,000,000
Perfect Cell – 1,150,000,000
(Powered up against Gohan) – 1,350,000,000
(Full Power) – 1,850,000,000
(Super Perfect) – 2,800,000,000
Son Gohan – 25,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,250,000,000
(Unseen Angry Super Saiyan) – 1,500,000,000
(Angry Super Saiyan 2) – 3,000,000,000
(Injured Super Saiyan 2) – 2,200,000,000
(Father-Son Kamehameha) – 3,300,000,000


Buu Saga


7 Years of Peace
Son Gohan – 14,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 725,000,000
Vegeta – 30,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,500,000,000
Son Goten – 3,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 150,000,000
Trunks – 3,100,000
(Super Saiyan) – 155,000,000
Videl – 18

25th Tenkaichi Budokai – Junior Division
Ikose – 5.5
Son Goten – 3,400,000
(Super Saiyan) 170,000,000
Idasa – 8
Trunks – 3,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 175,000,000
Mr. Satan - 16.5

Adult Division
Kuririn – 17,500 (Gave up fighting to become a family man)
Pintar – 12
Yamucha – 10,500 (Also gave up fighting. Probably for the best.)
Piccolo – 650,000,000
(Unseen without weights) – 800,000,000
East Kaioshin – 1,000,000,000
Videl – 20
Spopovich – 25
Yamu – 28
Son Gohan – 22,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,100,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 2,200,000,000
Kibito – 100,000,000
#18 – 180,000,000
Jewel – 14
Killa – 12.5

Madoshi Babidi
Babidi – 2.5
Pui Pui - 1,500,000 (People are a little too harsh with Pui Pui. If you never trained in heavier gravity, it would still throw you off your game. He didn’t expect it to harm Vegeta or anything.)
Yakon – 40,000,000
Son Gokuu – 35,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,750,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 3,500,000,000
Dabura – 1,500,000,000
Majin Vegeta (Super Saiyan 2) – 3,500,000,000

The Playful Destroyer
Majin Buu – 1,250,000,000
(vs Dabura/Gohan/Kaioshin) – 3,000,000,000
(vs Vegeta) – 4,100,000,000
(vs Gokuu) – 6,000,000,000
(Full Power/Splitting) – 7,200,000,000
(Grey Buu) – 4,200,000,000
(Good Buu) – 3,000,000,000
Son Gokuu – 7,500,000,000 (Suppressed Super Saiyan 3)
Son Gohan (Z Sword Training) – 38,000,000
Gotenks – 36,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,825,000,000
Van Zant – 5
Butler - 4

Rise of the Super Majin
Son Goten (post-training) – 3,950,000 (Goten narrowed the gap a bit, since they were working on equalizing their power)
Trunks (post-training) – 4,000,000
Gotenks – 40,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 2,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 3) – 16,000,000,000
Super Buu – 15,500,000,000
(With Piccolo+Gotenks) – 32,300,000,000
(With Piccolo) – 16,697,500,000
(With Gohan) – 36,197,500,000
(Buff) – 16,000,000,000
Son Gohan (Ultimate) - 19,500,000,000
Tenshinhan – 1,500,000 (It was said that Ten has alien ancestry, so I don’t count him as “Pure Human”, getting around the “Kuririn is the strongest pure human” argument. His feats honestly smash Kuririn’s.)
Vegetto: 2,500,000,000
(Super Vegito) – 125,000,000,000
(Unseen Super Saiyan 2) – 250,000,000,000
(Unseen Super Saiyan 3) – 1,000,000,000,000 (Listing these is important for the Battle of Gods section)

Pint Sized Destroyer
Son Gokuu (Super Saiyan 3; fighting level) – 12,500,000,000
(Full power, takes time to gather; strenuous on body) – 14,000,000,000
Pure Buu – 12,500,000,000
(vs Mr. Satan) – 666
(vs Vegeta) – 4,200,000,000
(vs Mr. Buu) – 10,000,000,000
(vs Genki Dama) – 15,000,000,000 (Looking back on Kid Buu’s fight with Gokuu, he never seemed particularly concerned or serious. And he can be both of those, as shown when he saw the Genki Dama and started going for the kill. He was also perfectly capable of holding back, as shown in his fight with Satan. No, it wasn’t a gag fight. It had plot significance. It leads to the revival of…)
Mr. Buu – 6,500,000,000 (“W-W-W-WHAAAT?! But Blackstripe! You yourself said Good Buu was only at 3 billion!” That’s right, but that was Good Buu. Mr. Buu is in fact a bit different. When Majin Buu split between his good and evil halves, both of them still had a bit of Kaioshin in them. Neither was ‘Pure’. If you will recall, Super Buu states that he gave “that guy” special treatment…and when he was removed, he took all traces of the Kaioshins with him: both Dai Kaioshin AND South Kaioshin. That’s why you get Pure Buu instead of Grey Buu again. Because of how Super Buu set the Kaioshins up inside of him, he’s able to use their full power to compensate for his lost Majin power)
Genki Dama – 52,807,978,000 (5 x 6.5 billion + the kids, Piccolo, Kuririn, Yamucha and Gohan. Would have killed any Majin.)

Battle of Gods

The God of Destruction awakens

Kuririn – 15,200 (is even more complacent than in the Buu Saga)
Yamucha – 8,100 (It’s over 8,000, if only just.)
Tenshinhan – 1,750,000
Piccolo – 1,000,000,000
Son Goten – 4,250,000
Trunks – 4,250,000
Pilaf – 2
Mai – 2.5
Shu – 2
Mr. Satan – 16
#18 – 180,000,000
Son Gohan – 19,500,000,000
Gotenks – 42,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 2,125,000,000
Vegeta – 38,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,900,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 3,800,000,000
(Stealing Gohan’s modus operandi) – 25,000,000,000
Beerus – 400,000,000,000 (1% power)
(70% power) – 28,000,000,000,000
(100%) – 40,000,000,000,000
Son Gokuu – 40,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 2,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 4,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 3) – 16,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan God) – 24,000,000,000,000
Whis – 60,000,000,000,000

The above power levels are based upon Akira Toriyama saying that if SSG Goku was a 6, then Beerus was a 10 and Whis was a 15.

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed reading this! I wanted to try a power level list that included BOG without getting too absurdly high.

[thefalseprophecy]

I'm one of those people who actually LIKES battle powers and I'm very interested to know what the sources are for the battle powers they came up with.

Correct me if I'm mistaken but isn't this the site that provided the V-Jump scans of the battle powers for Broli, Coola, and Gogeta?

[Lord Beerus]

So, this is a power level list I did over the course of a few hours. My ultimate goal was to basically see if I could keep all of the power levels fairly low without violating any clear cut statements made in the Manga. Not easy, since I also cover Battle of Gods at the end of it.

I'm sorry but every instance of Krillin being weaker than Tien is incorrect. Given that Toriyama has stated that Krillin is the strongest earthling. On multiple occasions.

[dbgtFO]

Spoiler:

So, this is a power level list I did over the course of a few hours. My ultimate goal was to basically see if I could keep all of the power levels fairly low without violating any clear cut statements made in the Manga. Not easy, since I also cover Battle of Gods at the end of it.

Cell Saga

Return of Freeza
Son Gohan – 1,000,000
Kuririn – 14,000
Yamucha – 8,200
Tenshinhan – 32,000
Vegeta – 2,800,000
Piccolo – 2,400,000
Planet Trade Empire soldiers – ~1,000
Cyborg Freeza – 40,500,000
(Unseen full power) – 135,000,000
Trunks – 3,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 150,000,000
King Cold – 45,000,000
(Unseen third form) – 75,000,000
(Unseen final form) – 145,000,000
Son Gokuu – 3,100,000
(Super Saiyan) – 155,000,000

Now, King Cold is entirely speculation on my part. I will not deny it. It does however make sense from a character standpoint. He is King Cold. Does Freeza really seem like the type to defer such a title to someone weaker than him? Did Cold seem like the type to restore (and strengthen!) someone more powerful than himself when he was trying to bargain with Trunks?

Of course, I don’t think he’s as ludicrously powerful as Dragonball Multiverese makes him. I think he has to still be weaker than Super Saiyan Trunks, enough so that he would feel it probably wasn’t worth even trying to transform.

In Fukkatsu no F, Freeza recounted his father instructing him to never lay his hands on Beerus or Majin Buu, so he ¬did have authority over him.

Arrival of the Cyborgs
Kuririn – 20,000 (There’s really no evidence he surpassed the Ginyu Force or even Zarbon/Dodoria. Pure humans are just weak, even the relatively strong ones.)
Yamucha – 14,500
Yajirobe – 650
Tenshinhan – 135,000 Son Gohan – 3,250,000
Son Gokuu – 3,400,000
(Super Saiyan) – 170,000,000
(Sick) – 35,000,000
#19 – 20,000,000
(Goku’s energy absorbed) – 50,000,000
(Vegeta’s energy absorbed) – 110,000,000
(Disarmed) – 45,000,000 and dropping.
#20 – 25,000,000
(Vegeta and Piccolo’s energy absorbed) – 75,000,000
Vegeta – 3,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 175,000,000
(Energy drained) – 115,000,000
Piccolo – 100,000,000
(without weights) – 135,000,000
Trunks – 3,300,000
(Super Saiyan) – 165,000,000
#18 – 180,000,000

An Invader from the Future
Nameless Namekian – 165,000,000
(without weights) – 190,000,000
(tired) 182,000,000
#17 – 190,000,000
Imperfect Cell – 150,000,000
(humans absorbed) – 210,000,000
#16 – 210,000,000
Semi-Perfect Cell – 305,000,000
(Full power) – 400,000,000
Shin Kikoho – 150,000,000
Vegeta – 6,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 325,000,000
(Grade 2) – 487,500,000
Trunks – 6,300,000
(Super Saiyan) 315,000,000
(Grade 2) – 472,500,000
(Grade 3) – 567,000,000
Perfect Cell – 450,000,000
(Warm up) – 500,000,000
(vs Trunks) – 550,000,000
(Bulked up) – 990,000,000
Son Gokuu – 22,000,000
(Half Power Super Saiyan) – 550,000,000

Cell Games

Mr. Satan – 16.5 (Do keep in mind my start of Dragon Ball Gokuu is about 25, since I don’t follow the Daiz. I figure he should at least be on the level of some of the better 21st Tournament Preliminary fighters. He did apparently win his renown fairly, after all.)
Vegeta – 12,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 600,000,000
Trunks – 11,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 575,000,000
Piccolo – 500,000,000
Cell Jr.’s – 650,000,000
Son Gokuu – 1,100,000,000
(Warp Kamehameha) – 1,200,000,000
(Tired) – 450,000,000
Perfect Cell – 1,150,000,000
(Powered up against Gohan) – 1,350,000,000
(Full Power) – 1,850,000,000
(Super Perfect) – 2,800,000,000
Son Gohan – 25,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,250,000,000
(Unseen Angry Super Saiyan) – 1,500,000,000
(Angry Super Saiyan 2) – 3,000,000,000
(Injured Super Saiyan 2) – 2,200,000,000
(Father-Son Kamehameha) – 3,300,000,000


Buu Saga


7 Years of Peace
Son Gohan – 14,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 725,000,000
Vegeta – 30,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,500,000,000
Son Goten – 3,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 150,000,000
Trunks – 3,100,000
(Super Saiyan) – 155,000,000
Videl – 18

25th Tenkaichi Budokai – Junior Division
Ikose – 5.5
Son Goten – 3,400,000
(Super Saiyan) 170,000,000
Idasa – 8
Trunks – 3,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 175,000,000
Mr. Satan - 16.5

Adult Division
Kuririn – 17,500 (Gave up fighting to become a family man)
Pintar – 12
Yamucha – 10,500 (Also gave up fighting. Probably for the best.)
Piccolo – 650,000,000
(Unseen without weights) – 800,000,000
East Kaioshin – 1,000,000,000
Videl – 20
Spopovich – 25
Yamu – 28
Son Gohan – 22,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,100,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 2,200,000,000
Kibito – 100,000,000
#18 – 180,000,000
Jewel – 14
Killa – 12.5

Madoshi Babidi
Babidi – 2.5
Pui Pui - 1,500,000 (People are a little too harsh with Pui Pui. If you never trained in heavier gravity, it would still throw you off your game. He didn’t expect it to harm Vegeta or anything.)
Yakon – 40,000,000
Son Gokuu – 35,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,750,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 3,500,000,000
Dabura – 1,500,000,000
Majin Vegeta (Super Saiyan 2) – 3,500,000,000

The Playful Destroyer
Majin Buu – 1,250,000,000
(vs Dabura/Gohan/Kaioshin) – 3,000,000,000
(vs Vegeta) – 4,100,000,000
(vs Gokuu) – 6,000,000,000
(Full Power/Splitting) – 7,200,000,000
(Grey Buu) – 4,200,000,000
(Good Buu) – 3,000,000,000
Son Gokuu – 7,500,000,000 (Suppressed Super Saiyan 3)
Son Gohan (Z Sword Training) – 38,000,000
Gotenks – 36,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,825,000,000
Van Zant – 5
Butler - 4

Rise of the Super Majin
Son Goten (post-training) – 3,950,000 (Goten narrowed the gap a bit, since they were working on equalizing their power)
Trunks (post-training) – 4,000,000
Gotenks – 40,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 2,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 3) – 16,000,000,000
Super Buu – 15,500,000,000
(With Piccolo+Gotenks) – 32,300,000,000
(With Piccolo) – 16,697,500,000
(With Gohan) – 36,197,500,000
(Buff) – 16,000,000,000
Son Gohan (Ultimate) - 19,500,000,000
Tenshinhan – 1,500,000 (It was said that Ten has alien ancestry, so I don’t count him as “Pure Human”, getting around the “Kuririn is the strongest pure human” argument. His feats honestly smash Kuririn’s.)
Vegetto: 2,500,000,000
(Super Vegito) – 125,000,000,000
(Unseen Super Saiyan 2) – 250,000,000,000
(Unseen Super Saiyan 3) – 1,000,000,000,000 (Listing these is important for the Battle of Gods section)

Pint Sized Destroyer
Son Gokuu (Super Saiyan 3; fighting level) – 12,500,000,000
(Full power, takes time to gather; strenuous on body) – 14,000,000,000
Pure Buu – 12,500,000,000
(vs Mr. Satan) – 666
(vs Vegeta) – 4,200,000,000
(vs Mr. Buu) – 10,000,000,000
(vs Genki Dama) – 15,000,000,000 (Looking back on Kid Buu’s fight with Gokuu, he never seemed particularly concerned or serious. And he can be both of those, as shown when he saw the Genki Dama and started going for the kill. He was also perfectly capable of holding back, as shown in his fight with Satan. No, it wasn’t a gag fight. It had plot significance. It leads to the revival of…)
Mr. Buu – 6,500,000,000 (“W-W-W-WHAAAT?! But Blackstripe! You yourself said Good Buu was only at 3 billion!” That’s right, but that was Good Buu. Mr. Buu is in fact a bit different. When Majin Buu split between his good and evil halves, both of them still had a bit of Kaioshin in them. Neither was ‘Pure’. If you will recall, Super Buu states that he gave “that guy” special treatment…and when he was removed, he took all traces of the Kaioshins with him: both Dai Kaioshin AND South Kaioshin. That’s why you get Pure Buu instead of Grey Buu again. Because of how Super Buu set the Kaioshins up inside of him, he’s able to use their full power to compensate for his lost Majin power)
Genki Dama – 52,807,978,000 (5 x 6.5 billion + the kids, Piccolo, Kuririn, Yamucha and Gohan. Would have killed any Majin.)

Battle of Gods

The God of Destruction awakens

Kuririn – 15,200 (is even more complacent than in the Buu Saga)
Yamucha – 8,100 (It’s over 8,000, if only just.)
Tenshinhan – 1,750,000
Piccolo – 1,000,000,000
Son Goten – 4,250,000
Trunks – 4,250,000
Pilaf – 2
Mai – 2.5
Shu – 2
Mr. Satan – 16
#18 – 180,000,000
Son Gohan – 19,500,000,000
Gotenks – 42,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 2,125,000,000
Vegeta – 38,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,900,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 3,800,000,000
(Stealing Gohan’s modus operandi) – 25,000,000,000
Beerus – 400,000,000,000 (1% power)
(70% power) – 28,000,000,000,000
(100%) – 40,000,000,000,000
Son Gokuu – 40,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 2,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 4,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 3) – 16,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan God) – 24,000,000,000,000
Whis – 60,000,000,000,000

The above power levels are based upon Akira Toriyama saying that if SSG Goku was a 6, then Beerus was a 10 and Whis was a 15.

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed reading this! I wanted to try a power level list that included BOG without getting too absurdly high.

I'm sorry but every instance of Krillin being weaker than Tenshinhan is incorrect. Given that Toriyama has stated that Krillin is the strongest earthling. On multiple occasions.

You really didn't have to quote the entire post to get that point across.
At least use spoiler tags like so.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Just finished my numbers on Cell arc:

Spoiler:

Son Goku - 3.500.000

• Super Saiyan - 175.000.000

Trunks - 3.400.000

• Super Saiyan - 170.500.000

Vegeta - 3.100.000
Piccolo - 2.000.000
Kuririn - 150.000
Tenshinhan - 130.000
Yamcha - 100.000
Chaozu - 25.000
Cold - 100.000.000
Mecha Freeza - 150.000.000

Spoiler:

• Son Gohan - 3.300.000
  • Super Saiyan - 165.000.000
  Trunks - 40.000
  • Super Saiyan - 2.000.000
  Artificial Human #17 - 300.000.000
  Artificial Human #18 - 290.000.000

Spoiler:

Son Goku - 4.500.000

• Super Saiyan - 225.000.000

Vegeta - 4.600.000

• • Super Saiyan - 230.000.000

• Post-RoSaT - 19.000.000
  • Super Saiyan - 950.000.000
    Super Saiyan Grade 2 - 1.330.000.000

Trunks - 4.000.000

• • Super Saiyan - 200.000.000

• Post-RoSaT - 18.500.000
  • Super Saiyan - 925.000.000
    Super Saiyan Grade 2 - 1.295.000.000
    Super Saiyan Grade 3 - 1.665.000.000

Son Gohan - 2.800.000
Piccolo - 10.000.000

• Super Namekian - 400.000.000

Kuririn - 2.000.000
Yamcha - 1.100.000
Tenshinhan - 1.300.000
Chaozu - 100.000
Artificial Human #16 - 600.000.000
Artificial Human #17 - 400.000.000
Artificial Human #18 - 390.000.000
Artificial Human #19 - 4.000.000

• Post-absorption - 100.000.000

Artificial Human #20/Dr. Gero - 5.000.000

• Post-absorption - 7.000.000

Cell
First Form - 200.000.000

• Vs Piccolo - 300.000.000
  Vs #17 - 600.000.000

Second Form - 1.000.000.000
Perfect Form

• Suppressed - 1.400.000.000
  "Super Saiyan Grade 3" - 2.520.000.000

Spoiler:

Son Goku - 70.000.000

• Super Saiyan Full Power - 3.500.000.000

Son Gohan - 90.000.000

• Super Saiyan Full Power - 4.500.000.000
  Super Saiyan 2 - 9.000.000.000
  • Enraged - 10.000.000.000

Vegeta - 40.000.000

• Super Saiyan Full Power - 2.000.000.000

Trunks - 40.000.000

• Super Saiyan Full Power - 2.000.000.000

Piccolo - 1.500.000.000
Mr. Satan - 8
Cell Juniors - 2.300.000.000
Cell

• Perfect Form - 4.400.000.000
  Power-Weighted - 8.000.000.000
  Super Perfect Form - 10.000.000.000

Spoiler:

Super Saiyan = base x50

• • Super Saiyan Grade 2 = base x70
    Super Saiyan Grade 3 = base x90

• Super Saiyan 2 = base x100

[Blackstripe]

So, this is a power level list I did over the course of a few hours. My ultimate goal was to basically see if I could keep all of the power levels fairly low without violating any clear cut statements made in the Manga. Not easy, since I also cover Battle of Gods at the end of it.

I'm sorry but every instance of Krillin being weaker than Tenshinhan is incorrect. Given that Toriyama has stated that Krillin is the strongest earthling. On multiple occasions.

Does that make any sense to you, though? Ten consistently shows himself to be stronger from the very day he enters the series all the way to the Buu saga.

Besides, like I said. Tenshinhan is technically part-alien. So you don't have to count him as an "Earthling". Problem solved.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Besides, like I said. Tenshinhan is technically part-alien. So you don't have to count him as an "Earthling". Problem solved.

Except any hint of him being "partially alien" comes from a guidebook, and the same guidebook lists him as an earthling under the same category as Krillin. Tenshinhan is also called an "Earthling" in the manga.

[Kaboom]

Does that make any sense to you, though? Ten consistently shows himself to be stronger from the very day he enters the series all the way to the Buu saga.
Besides, like I said. Tenshinhan is technically part-alien. So you don't have to count him as an "Earthling". Problem solved.

Nothing shows Tenshinhan to be stronger later in the series. He's shown to be braver and/or more reckless, and to have more destructive techniques, but never actually "stronger." The last time that was the case was when they had their battle powers read by the Saiyans, and that was before they each underwent massive power growth during Namek. Evidently, Kuririn's was more massive than Ten's.

Also, the manga never portrays Ten as an alien. One of the guidebooks adds that he has distant alien ancestry (he's descended from the "three-eyed tribe" who are themselves descendants of aliens), but that same guidebook STILL grouped him in with the other native Earthlings. He's no less an Earthling than the distantly Saiyan-descended ones in DB Online.

Tenshinhan and Kuririn are both universally considered Earthlings. The manga, the guidebooks, and Toriyama himself all declare that Kuririn is the strongest Earthling. Therefore, Kuririn is stronger than Tenshinhan.

There's really nothing about it to be denied or debated. It just is what it is.

[Blackstripe]

Does that make any sense to you, though? Ten consistently shows himself to be stronger from the very day he enters the series all the way to the Buu saga.
Besides, like I said. Tenshinhan is technically part-alien. So you don't have to count him as an "Earthling". Problem solved.

Nothing shows Tenshinhan to be stronger later in the series. He's shown to be braver and/or more reckless, and to have more destructive techniques, but never actually "stronger." The last time Tenshinhan was shown to be stronger than Kuririn was when they had their battle powers read by the Saiyans, and that was before they each underwent massive power growth during Namek. Evidently, Kuririn's was more massive than Ten's.

Also, the manga never portrays Ten as an alien. One of the guidebooks adds that he has distant alien ancestry (he's descended from the "three-eyed tribe" who are themselves descendants of aliens), but that same guidebook STILL grouped him in with the other native Earthlings. He's no less an Earthling than the distantly Saiyan-descended ones in DB Online.

Tenshinhan and Kuririn are both universally considered Earthlings. The manga, the guidebooks, and Toriyama himself all declare that Kuririn is the strongest Earthling. Therefore, Kuririn is stronger than Tenshinhan.

There's really nothing about it to be denied or debated. It just is what it is.

Then why is he always depicted as being generally more useful than Kuririn? Why couldn't Kuririn buy a bit of time against Semiperfect Cell like Ten could? How could Ten do better against Gotenks Buu than Kuririn did against regular ol' Super Buu?

The same Kuririn, mind you, who stops training seriously, whereas Ten basically lives in the wilderness and probably trains hard every day. I'm telling you, it doesn't make one lick of sense.

[Kaboom]

Then why is he always depicted as being generally more useful than Kuririn? Why couldn't Kuririn buy a bit of time against Semiperfect Cell like Ten could? How could Ten do better against Gotenks Buu than Kuririn did against regular ol' Super Buu?

"Useful" does not equal "stronger."

Tenshinhan himself was not responsible for stalling Cell, the Shin Kikoho was. It's an extraordinarily broken and highly-amplified attack, said to be "many levels above the Kamehameha," and all it did was push him around. Ten used some form of the Kikoho to deflect Boo's little blast, too (and from the side, not even a head-on clash). To cite either of those things as evidence that Ten's stronger than Kuririn, you'd have to prove that Kuririn couldn't do the same thing with the same technique, which is impossible.

Also, Kuririn engaging Evil Boo is 100% filler.

The same Kuririn, mind you, who stops training seriously, whereas Ten basically lives in the wilderness and probably trains hard every day.

Which wouldn't matter if Kuririn had a big enough lead on Ten before retiring. "One trained, the other didn't" isn't proof of anything in and of itself.

I'm telling you, it doesn't make one lick of sense.

It makes plenty of sense, once you get past the "big, imposing guy with a surly attitude who does a lot of stuff" surface-level qualities of Tenshinhan.

If the line from the manga and the quotes from extra material and Toriyama all saying Kuririn's the strongest didn't exist, then there'd be room for debate. But it'd still be up in the air, because there is objectively nothing demonstrating or saying that Tenshinhan remained stronger than Kuririn.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

How can Krillin hold of Form 2 Cell with a technique he doesn't posses? (Shin Kikoho)

Using their fights against Super Buu aren't very good arguments since:

1. We don't actually see Krillin vs. Super Buu isn't in the actual manga
2. The situations aren't really comparable

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Vegeta - 4.600.000

• • Super Saiyan - 230.000.000

Artificial Human #20/Dr. Gero - 5.000.000

• Post-absorption - 7.000.000

I'm not so sure Vegeta would have trouble catching #20 if he was 32-46x stronger than him.

Artificial Human #19 - 4.000.000
Post-absorption - 100.000.000
Artificial Human #20/Dr. Gero - 5.000.000
Post-absorption - 7.000.000

#20 was questionable as being as strong as expected. #19 wasn't even considered. Vegeta also commented that #19 wasn't as bad as made out to be after watching his fight with Goku, yet made no comments watching Piccolo's fight with #20.

#20 post > #19 post

[DBZAOTA482]

This is my first shot at a complete power level list on the series. Hope you like it.

Son Goku Saga

Spoiler:

Goku
Base - 10
Kamehameha - 20

This is from the Daizenshuu books. With this it notes he's twice as powerful as the farmer at the beginning of Dragon Ball Z. Due to being a martial artist (and possibly an alien) who was trained briefly by a martial artist master his durability and speed must also be greater.

Bulma - 3

This is a rough estimate. She has no real feats to speak of.

Bear Thief - 7

He posed as a challenge to Goku but he was killed with a concentrated punch between his eyes.

Muten Roshi
Base - 65
Kamehameha - 100

Roshi is well past his prime at this point and he hasn't trained himself so his strength has fallen quite a bit.

Oolong - 2

He's a small piglet and a cowardly one at that.

Yamcha - 7

He was able to put up a fight (and almost win) against a hungry Goku and was trained martial arts from an unknown school but he seems decently skilled.

Puar (base) - 1

Oolong used to bully him all the time.

Gyumao - 30

He was the #2 pupil of Muten Roshi and a demi-god (or whatever he is) so he has to be decently strong himself.

Chi-Chi - 9

Due to being the daughter of Gyumao, she was naturally gifted with strength she herself isn't aware of. Her feat of outrunning and killing a T-rex gave Yamcha and Puar quite a shock.

T-rex - 15

This is the T-rex that Chi-Chi killed with her weapons.

Boss Rabbit - 6

He built a rep over turning people into carrots by touching them. He was never particularly strong.

Kuririn - 8

He had feats rivaling Goku's. He pushed a giant mountain slightly, outran and stomped a saber-toothed tiger, had a running speed slightly slower than the world's fastest man (Usian Bolt), and can jump pretty high. However Goku overpowered him during a little scrap.

21st Tenkaichi Budokai

Spoiler:

Goku
No tail - 45
Tail - 60

Goku has noted his strength went up when his tail regrew and demonstrated by using it to launching himself in flying kick position into the Tournament wall. He also fought more or less evenly with Jackie Shun.

Kuririn - 42

Jackie Chun noted his punches have a bit of power behind them, and he fared better against Chun than Yamcha.

Yamcha - 32

Yamcha never took Roshi's training with Goku and Kuririn so he was left in the dust as a result.

Namu - 45

Namu is a fighter that specializes in hitting people's pressure points but even so he put up a good fight against Goku and nearly knocked him out once.

Jackie Chun
Base - 65
Kamehameha - 105

I think Roshi didn't spend too much time on his own training but he did enter the tournament so Goku and Kuririn wouldn't live under the idea they're unbeatable.

Ranfan - 6

Despite her... tactics I believe she does indeed have a moderate amount of strength and training to back it up even though it's nothing special.

Giran - 23

Goku was shown ever overpowering him even before growing back his tail and when he saw Goku tested out his new strength he called it quits.

Bacterian - 14

Even he's a dirty fighter (no pun intended) like Ranfan I think he must have a good deal of raw strength if he's able to hurt a dazed Kuririn like he did.[/quote]

Red Ribbon Army Saga coming soon....

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Spoiler:

Movies



Movie 5


Son Goku
~ base: 5,400,000
post zenkai
~ base: 150,000,000
~> Kaioken x10: 1,500,000,000
~> Kaioken x20: 3,000,000,000
--- Kamehameha: 3,000,000,000
~> Super Saiyan: 7,500,000,000

Son Gohan
~ base: 900,000

Kuririn
~ full power: 400,000

Piccolo
~ full power: 4,000,000

Cooler
~ True form: 140,000,000
~ 5th form: 5,000,000,000

Dore
~ full power: 1,500,000

Neiz
~ full power: 2,000,000

Salza
~ full power: 3,000,000



Movie 6


Son Goku
~ base: 250,000,000
~> Kaioken x20: 5,000,000,000
~> Super Saiyan: 12,500,000,000

Son Gohan
~ base: 7,000,000

Kuririn
~ full power: 4,000,000

Piccolo
~ full power: 400,000,000

Vegeta
~ base: 250,000,000
~> Super Saiyan: 12,500,000,000

Metal Cooler
post Big Gete Star power up
~ full power: 11,250,000,000
post repair
~ full power: 17,500,000,000



Movie 7


Son Goku
~> Super Saiyan: 480,000,000

Vegeta
~> Super Saiyan: 500,000,000

Trunks
~> Super Saiyan: 450,000,000

Kamiccolo
~ weighted: 720,000,000
~ full power: 800,000,000

Son Gohan
~ base: 7,000,000

Kuririn
~ full power: 4,000,000

Android #15
~ max power: 435,000,000

Android #14
~ max power: 445,000,000

Android #13
~ max power: 520,000,000
~> Super #13: 1,400,000,000



Movie 8


Son Goku
~> Super Saiyan: 18,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~> Super Saiyan: 9,000,000,000

Future Trunks
~> Super Saiyan Grade 2: 11,000,000,000

Vegeta
~> Super Saiyan Grade 2: 12,000,000,000

Kamiccolo
~ full power: 10,000,000,000

Broly
~> Restricted Super Saiyan: 20,000,000,000
~> Super Saiyan: 23,333,333,333
~> Legendary Super Saiyan: 70,000,000,000



Movie 9


Son Gohan
~> Super Saiyan: 55,000,000,000
~> Super Saiyan 2: 220,000,000,000

Future Trunks
~> Super Saiyan: 23,000,000,000

Vegeta
~> Super Saiyan: 24,000,000,000

Kamiccolo
~ full power: 20,000,000,000

Bojack
~ full power: 45,000,000,000
~> Super Bojack: 80,000,000,000



Movie 10


Son Gohan
~> Super Saiyan 2: 152,000,000,000

Son Goten
~> Super Saiyan: 32,000,000,000

Trunks
~> Super Saiyan: 34,000,000,000

Broly
post zenkai
~> Super Saiyan: 70,000,000,000
~> Legendary Super Saiyan: 210,000,000,000

Son Goku
~> Super Saiyan: 60,000,000,000



Movie 12


Son Goku
~> Super Saiyan 3: 9,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~ base: 4,750,000,000

Son Goten
~ base: 1,000,000,000
~> Super Saiyan: 50,000,000,000

Trunks
~ base: 1,050,000,000
~> Super Saiyan: 52,500,000,000

Vegeta
~> Super Saiyan 2: 240,000,000,000

Gotenks
~ Super Saiyan: 240,000,000,000,000

Gogeta
~ Super Saiyan: 1,224,000,000,000,000

Janemba
~ full power: 6,000,000,000,000
~> Super Janemba: 10,000,000,000,000

[xmysticgohanx]

Re: the current Krillin vs Tien debate

I like to think that any time Tien does something with his Shin Kikoho, Krillin would've done better with his Kienzan.