The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[supercat]

SS2 Goku (BoGT) vs.

1. Nutt
2. Rivet
3. Captain Neji
4. Super Mega Cannon Sigma

Goku takes them each down pretty easily.

Well, Nutt is the weakest of the Mega Cannon Sigma, and he's already stronger than Goku's BoGT Super Saiyan power at least, and the SMCS is over 2x Neji, and the GT multiplier for SS2 is implied to be small.

I doubt Nutt is stronger than SSJ Goku (BoGT). I have a hard time believing that any of those robots have that kind of power. Super Mega Cannon Sigma may not be too far off from that realm of strength, but I feel even with their combined power they're more or less closer to Base Goku (BoGT) versus SSJ Goku (BoGT).

[ZombieVito]

Base Goku (Android arc) - Kaioken x20 (no limit or strain from Kaioken) vs Android 19 (pre energy absorption)
Base Goku (Android arc) - Kaioken x20 (no limit or strain from Kaioken) vs Android 20 (pre energy absorption)
Base Goku (Cell Games) - Kaioken x10 (no limit or strain from Kaioken) vs Final Form Freeza 100% (before training, unlimited stamina)
Base Goku (Cell Games) - Kaioken x20 (no limit or strain from Kaioken) vs Final Form Freeza 100% (before training, unlimited stamina)
Base Goku (Buu arc) - Kaioken x10 (no limit or strain from Kaioken) vs Android 17

a) Goku wins.
b) Goku wins with difficulty.
c) Kaioken x3 is enough to win.
d) See above.
e) Kaioken x5 is enough to win.

King Vegeta vs Toei Bardock (No SSJ).

[supercat]

Base Goku (Android arc) - Kaioken x20 (no limit or strain from Kaioken) vs Android 19 (pre energy absorption)
Base Goku (Android arc) - Kaioken x20 (no limit or strain from Kaioken) vs Android 20 (pre energy absorption)
Base Goku (Cell Games) - Kaioken x10 (no limit or strain from Kaioken) vs Final Form Freeza 100% (before training, unlimited stamina)
Base Goku (Cell Games) - Kaioken x20 (no limit or strain from Kaioken) vs Final Form Freeza 100% (before training, unlimited stamina)
Base Goku (Buu arc) - Kaioken x10 (no limit or strain from Kaioken) vs Android 17

a) Goku wins.
b) Goku wins with difficulty.
c) Kaioken x3 is enough to win.
d) See above.
e) Kaioken x5 is enough to win.

King Vegeta vs Toei Bardock (No SSJ).

If we're talking about Bardock after he recovers from his little attempt at taking down Frieza, then he likely crushes King Vegeta without much difficulty. Even prior to his scuffle with Frieza, I could see the low-class warrior edging a victory against his king.

More hypothetical battles:

Super Mega Cannon Sigma vs Fat Buu (against Majin Vegeta)
Super Mega Cannon Sigma vs Super Buu (no one absorbed)
Base Goku (BoGT) vs Majin Vegeta

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Goku takes them each down pretty easily.

Well, Nutt is the weakest of the Mega Cannon Sigma, and he's already stronger than Goku's BoGT Super Saiyan power at least, and the SMCS is over 2x Neji, and the GT multiplier for SS2 is implied to be small.

I doubt Nutt is stronger than SSJ Goku (BoGT). I have a hard time believing that any of those robots have that kind of power. Super Mega Cannon Sigma may not be too far off from that realm of strength, but I feel even with their combined power they're more or less closer to Base Goku (BoGT) versus SSJ Goku (BoGT).

Well, Dr. Mu sensed both SS Goku and Trunks against Luud, and still ordered Rild to send Mega Cannon Sigma to capture them. Gill also gave them data of Goku's fights against Ledgic and Luud (where he went SS), and they were all still confident they could take him.

[supercat]

Well, Dr. Mu sensed both SS Goku and Trunks against Luud, and still ordered Rild to send Mega Cannon Sigma to capture them. Gill also gave them data of Goku's fights against Ledgic and Luud (where he went SS), and they were all still confident they could take him.

I'm not sure if Goku was taking his fight with Luud too seriously. While Luud has shown some impressive levels of durability, I feel he was only a recipient of that kind of defense because of to the technological prowess that he was built with. Androids 19 and 20 as well as Super 17 are all able to tank blasts that could probably easily crush them, yet they survive due to the special abilities they are built with. I don't see Luud's case here to be much different from that. If Luud was really that powerful, I think Goku would have tapped into more power than he was displaying during the fight.

As for Trunks, he was likely not much better than he was in DBZ. At the very best, I could see him catching up to SSJ Goku (Cell Games) or Perfect Cell (against Goku), and even those levels seem like bit of a stretch. I don't recall any confirmation of him training between the defeat of Kid Buu and EoZ.

I'm not sure how accurate it is to feel confident after merely going over some data. The scientists in DBZ / DBGT don't exactly appear to have a great track record of securing victory after making calculations based on data, despite their initial confidence.

Again, Super Mega Cannon Sigma is probably the only one who could tank a few good hits from SSJ Goku (BoGT) before ultimately going down. The way I see it, their confidence was likely attributed towards Mu's incompetent calculations in conjunction with the backup plan of resorting to becoming Super Mega Cannon Sigma, who they probably felt had enough power to crush Goku.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I'm not sure if Goku was taking his fight with Luud too seriously. While Luud has shown some impressive levels of durability, I feel he was only a recipient of that kind of defense because of to the technological prowess that he was built with. Androids 19 and 20 as well as Super 17 are all able to tank blasts that could probably easily crush them, yet they survive due to the special abilities they are built with. I don't see Luud's case here to be much different from that. If Luud was really that powerful, I think Goku would have tapped into more power than he was displaying during the fight.

You'd need to actually prove Goku was suppressed, otherwise it's an assumption. We're also never given any indication he was, so if he secretly was, that'd make all of the quotes misleading to the viewer.

Also, why would Goku be suppressed against Ledgic?

As for Trunks, he was likely not much better than he was in DBZ. At the very best, I could see him catching up to SSJ Goku (Cell Games) or Perfect Cell (against Goku), and even those levels seem like bit of a stretch. I don't recall any confirmation of him training between the defeat of Kid Buu and EoZ.

Goten was strong enough to give Base Gohan trouble, and according to the Perfect Files, and based on Gohan still having his fully outlined eyes, Base Gohan is, at the lowest, slightly stronger than his Ultimate self.

I'm not sure how accurate it is to feel confident after merely going over some data. The scientists in DBZ / DBGT don't exactly appear to have a great track record of securing victory after making calculations based on data, despite their initial confidence.

It's not calculations. It's the literal Ki they feel from Goku. Dr. Mu also felt they could beat Goku.

Android #16 was able to tell he's enough to take on Cell, what's the difference here?



Either way, there's never any indication given that the Sigmas are actually weaker than SS Goku (BoGT). Nothing ever says Goku was suppressed the whole time, and nothing says their confidence is based on nothing. If all of it was wrong, then Toei severely misinformed the viewers.

[Lord Beerus]

King Vegeta vs Toei Bardock (No SSJ).

I'm assuming this is pre-Zenkai Bardock, in which that case, King Vegeta kicks Bardock's ass.

Super Mega Cannon Sigma vs Fat Buu (against Majin Vegeta)
Super Mega Cannon Sigma vs Super Buu (no one absorbed)
Base Goku (BoGT) vs Majin Vegeta

- Fat Boo turn Super Mega Cannon Sigma into candy and eats him
- Super Boo wrecks Super Mega Cannon Sigma
- I think Majin Vegeta would take this. The SSJ and Majin multiplier put too much of a difference in power.

[fadeddreams5]

Base Goku (BoGT) vs Majin Vegeta

Considering Base Kid Goku absolutely wrecked Cell, who's about as strong as SSJ2 Kid Gohan, who's only a bit weaker than Majin Vegeta, Base Goku (I assume you mean adult form) absolutely annihilates Majin Vegeta.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Super Mega Cannon Sigma vs Fat Buu (against Majin Vegeta)
Super Mega Cannon Sigma vs Super Buu (no one absorbed)
Base Goku (BoGT) vs Majin Vegeta

Didn't even see these.

The Super Mega Cannon Sigma win both. Although I don't think they could beat Super Buu unfused.

Base Goku slaughters Vegeta. I'd say even EoZ Goku slaughters here.

-

SS Gogeta vs. SS2 Gotenks (Both Buu arc)

[fadeddreams5]

I say Gogeta wrecks. Majin Vegeta one-shotted SSJ Trunks and SSJ Goten. Sure, he lost his majin boost, and they went into the RoSAT, but Vegeta + Goku together is still way out of their league.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

You think Vegeta lost the Majin boost? Vegeta was also a Super Saiyan 2 when he one-shotted the kids.

[supercat]

I'm not sure if Goku was taking his fight with Luud too seriously. While Luud has shown some impressive levels of durability, I feel he was only a recipient of that kind of defense because of to the technological prowess that he was built with. Androids 19 and 20 as well as Super 17 are all able to tank blasts that could probably easily crush them, yet they survive due to the special abilities they are built with. I don't see Luud's case here to be much different from that. If Luud was really that powerful, I think Goku would have tapped into more power than he was displaying during the fight.

You'd need to actually prove Goku was suppressed, otherwise it's an assumption. We're also never given any indication he was, so if he secretly was, that'd make all of the quotes misleading to the viewer.

Also, why would Goku be suppressed against Ledgic?

As for Trunks, he was likely not much better than he was in DBZ. At the very best, I could see him catching up to SSJ Goku (Cell Games) or Perfect Cell (against Goku), and even those levels seem like bit of a stretch. I don't recall any confirmation of him training between the defeat of Kid Buu and EoZ.

Goten was strong enough to give Base Gohan trouble, and according to the Perfect Files, and based on Gohan still having his fully outlined eyes, Base Gohan is, at the lowest, slightly stronger than his Ultimate self.

I'm not sure how accurate it is to feel confident after merely going over some data. The scientists in DBZ / DBGT don't exactly appear to have a great track record of securing victory after making calculations based on data, despite their initial confidence.

It's not calculations. It's the literal Ki they feel from Goku. Dr. Mu also felt they could beat Goku.

Android #16 was able to tell he's enough to take on Cell, what's the difference here?



Either way, there's never any indication given that the Sigmas are actually weaker than SS Goku (BoGT). Nothing ever says Goku was suppressed the whole time, and nothing says their confidence is based on nothing. If all of it was wrong, then Toei severely misinformed the viewers.

Well the majority of this discussion, and GT battle powers in general seem to be based highly on speculation. I wasn't trying to say that Goku was suppressed, I meant to say that he didn't take the fight too seriously. There's a big difference between the two in my opinion. If Goku took the fight seriously, he would have increased his ki during crucial moments, much like how he did so efficiently against Jeice and Burter. GT Kid Goku seemed to have the tendency to neglect avoiding attacks and/or approach his fights with a less than serious demeanor. Of course, these are just opinions and speculations, so anything could be possible. However, I'm guessing you can at least acknowledge that he refrained from going all out against opponents that he could have wiped out instantly. Where were his SSJ2 / SSJ3 transformations? If he was that serious, he would have instantly powered up into either form and trashed Luud with ease.

In order for the Sigmas to be able to take down SSJ Goku (BoGT), they would likely need to be able to rival some form of Buu. If that were the case, Buu's name would have been brought up, but we know having the privilege of being compared to the vile menace belonged only to Rild alone. While Ledgic did put up a good fight against Base Goku, he was easily beat down as soon as the Saiyan went SSJ. I've always seen Ledgic a little stronger than Super Perfect Cell, but no where near the Buus. Keeping that in mind, even if the Sigmas were stronger than Ledgic, there's plenty of room to place them somewhere between Super Perfect Cell and the weakest form of Buu.

In regards to the fight between Gohan and Baby Goten, the latter likely got a pretty decent boost from Baby. In addition, Gohan seemed like he was using every ounce of effort to not seriously hurt his brother. I've always perceived it as him simply trying to subdue Goten while obtaining some answers. He probably could have done this without taking the amount of damage that he did (a suppressed fighter can promptly raise and lower their at ki at will), but seeing as how that wasn't the case, tells me that the boost Goten obtained from Baby was enormous, Gohan was simply fighting with his base power (not Ultimate), or both.

Either way, I'll acknowledge the fact that the two fighters did appear somewhat on par with each other, with Gohan having the slight upper hand. I get that Gohan's facial appearance is somewhat consistent with his Ultimate form, but I've always that assumed Elder Kai's power up permanently changed his facial features regardless of if he taps into his Ultimate power or not.

Even if we assume Gohan was in his Ultimate form, given how significant the boost from Baby can be, I wouldn't be surprised if it took Goten from Perfect Cell (against Goku) tier, to levels closer to Kid Buu. Throw that in with an extremely hesitant to fight Gohan, and the results of their fight don't seem far-fetched.

I agree that Android 16's calculations were somewhat accurate, but there have also been numerous instances where relying on data has resulted in nothing more than defeat.

More battles:
SSJ3 Goku (Buu arc - full power) vs Base Rild
Majin Vegeta vs Ledgic

[Lord Beerus]

SSJ3 Goku (Buu arc - full power) vs Base Rild
Majin Vegeta vs Ledgic

- SSJ3 Goku wins pretty easily
- Majin Vegeta trounces Ledgic

[supercat]

Super Mega Cannon Sigma vs Fat Buu (against Majin Vegeta)
Super Mega Cannon Sigma vs Super Buu (no one absorbed)
Base Goku (BoGT) vs Majin Vegeta

Didn't even see these.

The Super Mega Cannon Sigma win both. Although I don't think they could beat Super Buu unfused.

Base Goku slaughters Vegeta. I'd say even EoZ Goku slaughters here.

-

SS Gogeta vs. SS2 Gotenks (Both Buu arc)

SSJ Gogeta should be able to come out victorious.

Because Goku and Vegeta were likely leagues above Goten and Trunks, the fusions would probably produce a similar difference in power.

SSJ Gogeta should be so far ahead of SSJ Gotenks that the latter doubling or even tripling his power by becoming SSJ2 is likely not going to be enough to bridge the gap in power.


What about the following battles?

Base Kid Goku (BoGT) vs Super Perfect Cell
Uub (EoZ) vs Super Perfect Cell
Uub (BoGT) vs Super Perfect Cell
UuB (Baby arc) vs GT Piccolo (Super 17 arc)

[Lord Beerus]

Base Kid Goku (BoGT) vs Super Perfect Cell
Uub (EoZ) vs Super Perfect Cell
Uub (BoGT) vs Super Perfect Cell
UuB (Baby arc) vs GT Piccolo (Super 17 arc)

- I'd honestly say SPC would edge this out.
- If Oob can't tap into his latent power, then SPC trounces him
- SPC wrecks Oob. Oob was barely able hold his own against Base Goku (BoGT)
- I really wouldn't know how to gauge Piccolo's strength in GT. It's really a grand mystery. I'd say... Oob? I'm not entirely sure, to be honest.

[SSJ God Gogeta]

Cell Games
SSJ Vegeta, SSJ Trunks and Piccolo VS. SSJ Goku, SSJ Gohan and Krillin.

[supercat]

Cell Games
SSJ Vegeta, SSJ Trunks and Piccolo VS. SSJ Goku, SSJ Gohan and Krillin.

Goku, Gohan, and Krillin take this.

Even if Krillin gets one-shotted, Goku and Gohan can easily trump the combined efforts of Vegeta, Piccolo, and Trunks.

Nappa - Gauntlet

Misokatsun
Ebifurya
Kishime

[Lord Beerus]

Nappa - Gauntlet

Misokatsun
Ebifurya
Kishime

Nappa would defeat Misokatsun, but it would take quite a bit of effort. However, I think Ebifurya and Kishime would just too much for him to handle. I mean, the strength between him and Ebifurya and Kishime are quite close but I think the elemental based power that Ebifurya and Kishime have would give them the significant advantage. Now I suddenly have the urge to watch The World Strongest again.

[supercat]

Nappa - Gauntlet

Misokatsun
Ebifurya
Kishime

Nappa would defeat Misokatsun, but it would take quite a bit of effort. However, I think Ebifurya and Kishime would just too much for him to handle. I mean, the strength between him and Ebifurya and Kishime are quite close but I think the elemental based power that Ebifurya and Kishime have would give them the significant advantage. Now I suddenly have the urge to watch The World Strongest again.

Not to mention they did far better against Goku than Nappa did.

And yeah, Movie 2 was awesome!


What about Vegeta and Nappa vs Dr. Wheelo?

Vegeta shows up and one-shots Ebifurya and Kishime, but can the prince of Saiyans handle what's in store for him next?

[The Tori-bot]

Batman vs Mr Satan

(which, incidentally, was the working title for Dawn of Justice)