Dragon Ball Games (NB) pondering Tenkaichi 4 / R. Blast 3

[mysticboy]

Link's not working for me. Someone, do me a solid and vote BT4/RB3 for me.

[InfernalVegito]

Link's not working for me. Someone, do me a solid and vote BT4/RB3 for me.

Done.

[mysticboy]

Link's not working for me. Someone, do me a solid and vote BT4/RB3 for me.

Done.

lol Thanks a lot. I owe you one.

[Hellspawn28]

Link is not working for me neither.

[dbboxkaifan]

It's possibly Europe-only.

You may try to use an anonymous proxy but not sure it's safe to use FaceBook login on that. VPN works too.

[PhoenixEX]

I welcome both Budokai Tenkaichi 4 and Raging Blast 3, as long as RB3 has a high character roster like BT3; yes this means DB and GT characters.
If this is too much to ask for I'd probably be satisfied with a BT3 HD remake, at least until the next-gen systems (PS4/720) come out and they release a new DB game with improved graphics.

[FlpShimizu]

It's possibly Europe-only.

You may try to use an anonymous proxy but not sure it's safe to use FaceBook login on that. VPN works too.

I'm in Brazil and it works just fine.

[dbboxkaifan]

I welcome both Budokai Tenkaichi 4 and Raging Blast 3, as long as RB3 has a high character roster

Seems like you value more a game with quantity than quality.

[FlpShimizu]

I welcome both Budokai Tenkaichi 4 and Raging Blast 3, as long as RB3 has a high character roster

Seems like you value more a game with quantity than quality.

It's not like we don't want a well made fighting game, we just have fun with tons of characters too.

[InfernalVegito]

I welcome both Budokai Tenkaichi 4 and Raging Blast 3, as long as RB3 has a high character roster

Seems like you value more a game with quantity than quality.

That doesn't mean anything just because you value quality differently than others.

[Hitiro]

I welcome both Budokai Tenkaichi 4 and Raging Blast 3, as long as RB3 has a high character roster

Seems like you value more a game with quantity than quality.

That doesn't mean anything just because you value quality differently than others.

Quality will always be affected by quantity.

Larger Rosters = More characters which fight the same way which will subtract fun away from the characters you'd normally enjoy(Already a problem in the BT and RB games as its used as a method of keeping balance between the characters, however, its not that bad at the moment. Frankly, it would be a lot more fun if each character is different but there is a problem to this which I will say later).

Larger Rosters = Less balance(At some point they will have to generalise or make new groups of characters that fight the same way as they add in more characters and this will eventually effect balance even more).

Larger Rosters = Characters who will be neglected due to them being similar to characters you know play the same(I don't know if I'm the only person who feels this but if a character isn't unique or set out from the rest I will not play him/her because why should I? If I like Gohan for example and Goku plays the exact same then I'd rather play Gohan because I like him better and Goku doesn't offer anything different for me to try. I honestly feel diversity is important between characters as it makes you want to play them all. But if you compromise on making all the characters different then you are breaking the balance you've maintained by keeping groups of characters similar and will be harder to balance).

Of course I would like a game with a large roster, but the way games are developed now its a disadvantage to try and aim to have a game with a lot of characters. The only games that pull this off effectively are MOBA games and that's possibly because of the genre and its business model. A game that's supposed to simulate a fighting environment isn't exactly the greatest type of game to go chucking in hundreds of characters as your guaranteed to have people just playing as certain characters. In that case why not limit the choice of characters? There will never be a case where you've used them all and fairly used each one of them throughout the game, unless the story mode calls for it. And who wants that really? If you do want a game like that then that is your opinion but you really can't say that the quality of the game won't be affected by the quantity of the characters in it the way games are at the moment.

[Rukura]

Went ahead and voted for the Dragon Ball adventure game. Hell, give me a GT adventure game. I'll take it.

Just...please. No more fighting games unless they're from a new developer. Or Game Republic.

[mysticboy]

*snip*

I don't think it's too much to ask for RB2's roster with important GT and missing movie characters though. Just don't give each transformation a different fighting style. Would be a lot less fighting styles for the devs to worry about.

[InfernalVegito]

If you do want a game like that then that is your opinion but you really can't say that the quality of the game won't be affected by the quantity of the characters in it the way games are at the moment.

Yes I can. Why? Because obviously our definition of quality differs here. What I expect from a DB game is the ability to let me reenact the anime series in the best possible way. You always seem to presuppose that balanace and high diversity between the characters is crucial to a great quality DB fighting game. I would agree if I wanted just a classic fighting game, where tactics and skill are necessarily needed (not saying one doesn't need skill to pull of some good combo strings in the Tenkaichi games, though) to stand a chance competitively.

As I've said before, the game is good in my eyes when it fulfills the requirement of enabling me the same experience as watching the show, only with the difference that I control the characters now. I don't disagree with your inherent points, but with the way you generalize that a definite loss of quality is always achieved with a larger character roster.
Do I play with all characters in BT3? Hell no. Do I still want the little henchmen in there? Hell yes. Why? Because in case I feel the urge to reenact a fight/battle from the show, then I can.

[Hitiro]

If you do want a game like that then that is your opinion but you really can't say that the quality of the game won't be affected by the quantity of the characters in it the way games are at the moment.

Yes I can. Why? Because obviously our definition of quality differs here. What I expect from a DB game is the ability to let me reenact the anime series in the best possible way. You always seem to presuppose that balanace and high diversity between the characters is crucial to a great quality DB fighting game. I would agree if I wanted just a classic fighting game, where tactics and skill are necessarily needed (not saying one doesn't need skill to pull of some good combo strings in the Tenkaichi games, though) to stand a chance competitively.

As I've said before, the game is good in my eyes when it fulfills the requirement of enabling me the same experience as watching the show, only with the difference that I control the characters now. I don't disagree with your inherent points, but with the way you generalize that a definite loss of quality is always achieved with a larger character roster.
Do I play with all characters in BT3? Hell no. Do I still want the little henchmen in there? Hell yes. Why? Because in case I feel the urge to reenact a fight/battle from the show, then I can.

So, your ideal game is an Ultimate Tenkaichi 2 with all characters then? Because if your idea of quality is a game with a large roster then you obviously don't care about the gameplay at any level. UT is a re-enactment of the show. And if you do consider gameplay part of quality then you've just proved my statement as the gameplay WILL be affected by a large roster and thus the quality will also suffer.

[InfernalVegito]

So, your ideal game is an Ultimate Tenkaichi 2 with all characters then?

No. If you read what I said, namely that I want to control the characters, then you should know that I can't be too fond of UT.

Because if your idea of quality is a game with a large roster then you obviously don't care about the gameplay at any level. And if you do consider gameplay part of quality then you've just proved my statement as the gameplay WILL be affected by a large roster.

I never said that I don't care about gameplay. Obviously I do when I dislike UT and still want a game where I can control the characters and have them fight like in the series. And no, your point doesn't prove anything in this context, as UT had less characters than BT3 and still was complete garbage gameplay wise. Now you can assert that the way super and ultimate attacks were blocked and could only be used at specific times in a fight enabled players to think more strategically when to use their energy and when to save it. This is true but it doesn't help when the rest of the gameplay is based solely on luck.
I don't understand why it's such a hard concept to grasp for you. More characters don't mean a drop in quality for everyone. That's what I'm trying to say all the time that you can't see it black and white only.

[Hitiro]

I never said that I don't care about gameplay. Obviously I do when I dislike UT and still want a game where I can control the characters and have them fight like in the series. And no, your point doesn't prove anything in this context, as UT had less characters than BT3 and still was complete garbage gameplay wise. Now you can assert that the way super and ultimate attacks were blocked and could only be used at specific times in a fight enabled players to think more strategically when to use their energy and when to save it. This is true but it doesn't help when the rest of the gameplay is based solely on luck.
I don't understand why it's such a hard concept to grasp for you. More characters don't mean a drop in quality for everyone. That's what I'm trying to say all the time that you can't see it black and white only.

So, if you were offered a DBZ game where every character was in it and only Ultimate Gohan, SSJ4 Gogeta, SSJ4 Goku, SSJ4 Vegeta, SSJ3 Gotenks, SSJ Vegito, SSJ Gogeta, Super Buu, Buuhan and Buutenks beat all the other characters because they all share the same group of chains, cancels, etc. And are practically god tier characters which have broken moves then that's the game for you? And if you do care about gameplay then that's exactly my point. Gameplay WILL be influenced by a larger roster and if you factor gameplay into your definition of quality then it DOES decrease the quality of the game. Frankly I don't think there is any person out there who doesn't think gameplay is an important factor in the quality of a game. Whether the gameplay is focused towards it being a fighting game or whether the gameplay is focused towards the simulation of a universe like DBZ. I don't know about you but if I wanted to see SSJ4 Gogeta beat upon everybody in the universe I'd rather just watch GT. I would like to suspend my belief and have Yajirobe beating on SSJ4 Gogeta and actually see him win then just having a certain set of characters who always win because of balance problems. As I said, I would like to see a game with every dragonball character in it but its a bit pointless to have unbelievable battles if you know who's going to win.

[InfernalVegito]

So, if you were offered a DBZ game where every character was in it and only Ultimate Gohan, SSJ4 Gogeta, SSJ4 Goku, SSJ4 Vegeta, SSJ3 Gotenks, SSJ Vegito, SSJ Gogeta, Super Buu, Buuhan and Buutenks beat all the other characters because they all share the same group of chains, cancels, etc. And are practically god tier characters which have broken moves then that's the game for you?

I don't know, I guess so. BT3 is like that but that doesn't mean that I can't beat those characters with Arale or young Chi Chi.

And if you do care about gameplay then that's exactly my point. Gameplay WILL be influenced by a larger roster and if you factor gameplay into your definition of quality then it DOES decrease the quality of the game.

Yes of course it will, that is not my problem. My point is that the result will be perceived differently, our discussion being the prime example. You would see a game like BT3 to be inferior in terms of quality compared to Budokai 3 or any other fighting game of your choice that suits your requirements of quality best. I know that all characters in BT3 play almost the same and feel like clones, but it still does what it sets out to do best, namely to give me the feeling of playing the series. Don't get me wrong, gameplay is important, hence why would UT be so criticized then? It's just that quality can be seen differently what I was getting at.

Okay off to bed now. Good night.

[Hitiro]

So, if you were offered a DBZ game where every character was in it and only Ultimate Gohan, SSJ4 Gogeta, SSJ4 Goku, SSJ4 Vegeta, SSJ3 Gotenks, SSJ Vegito, SSJ Gogeta, Super Buu, Buuhan and Buutenks beat all the other characters because they all share the same group of chains, cancels, etc. And are practically god tier characters which have broken moves then that's the game for you?

I don't know, I guess so. BT3 is like that but that doesn't mean that I can't beat those characters with Arale or young Chi Chi.

And if you do care about gameplay then that's exactly my point. Gameplay WILL be influenced by a larger roster and if you factor gameplay into your definition of quality then it DOES decrease the quality of the game.

Yes of course it will, that is not my problem. My point is that the result will be perceived differently, our discussion being the prime example. You would see a game like BT3 to be inferior in terms of quality compared to Budokai 3 or any other fighting game of your choice that suits your requirements of quality best. I know that all characters in BT3 play almost the same and feel like clones, but it still does what it sets out to do best, namely to give me the feeling of playing the series. Don't get me wrong, gameplay is important, hence why would UT be so criticized then? It's just that quality can be seen differently what I was getting at.

Okay off to bed now. Good night.

That isn't what I, or what other people, should base quality on, as far as BT3 and B3 are concerned their quality should be based purely on their own respective genres. And as far as I'm concerned if you want a BT3-esque game with a larger roster its quality will be worse than BT3 if the gameplay suffers. If you want a larger roster for B3 then the games quality will be worse than B3 because the gameplay suffers. Now if they can effectively implement all those characters without effecting the gameplay, and they can actually improve on it, then obviously its quality will be better than BT3. Of course if I were to compare BT3 and B3 then B3 is better in terms of its gameplay because it doesn't suffer as badly with balance like BT3 goes. But gameplay should be universal factor in the quality of video games. And to compare the quality of two games who are in two different genres is impossible because other things make up the quality of a game which may be effected by ones own personal perspective on that genres quality. However if we are comparing two games of the same genre then it is much easier to judge the quality between the two games because your personal perspective on both games quality should be at the same standing with only gameplay being a deciding factor. Now they could add all sorts of gameplay mechanics to the game to make it the best BT-esque game we've seen in terms of gameplay but a larger roster will hurt the balance of characters and thus negatively impact all those great mechanics they've added to the game. Making BT3 still better in terms of quality because at least if your playing with less characters on your roster more characters will still be playable options when going up against X or Y.

[dbboxkaifan]

It's not like we don't want a well made fighting game, we just have fun with tons of characters too.

Gran Turismo 5 has 1000 playable cars but most of them aren't really that much fun because they focused on having quantity over quality for a racing game that's supposed to be "the real driving simulator".

If a game isn't properly developed, it's going to break and then there won't be any or much fun, unless the gamer finds it fun to mess around with glitches.