Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by TheGreatness25 » Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:11 am

Very cool interview. I always enjoy hearing the old Ocean dub team discussing their work on the series (especially Kai... as little as it's been). I don't know why I have this fascination with them in particular, but I do. Meanwhile, I don't really enjoy hearing the Funimation team discussing their work on the series--I think it might be overexposure.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:48 am

Always a pleasure to listen to Brian, humble, such a down to Earth guy.

On Kai, it's interesting that Brian was able to recall Richard (we all know who) plays Goku, he seemed unaware of this years ago when asked at a con. I don't know if he learned this from us or was under tighter NDAs when asked about it though.

We knew about Brian asking his agent if he could schedule his Kai sessions on a Friday because he didn't want to blow his voice out early in the week with the screams, but it's nice that is there for anyone who hadn't heard this already.

Nice to hear Brian reiterating as well that they use the word "Hell", I wouldn't mind hearing some light swears, Funimation goes a little overboard with the repeated use of "Bastard" but I doubt Ocean went that far.

Considering Brian seems sure he was asked to record both an "Over 8,000" and "Over 9,000" and questioned the former, knowing it was accurate but was unsure would that be what the fans wanted and efforts were made with pronunciations this should be a reminder to anyone that this dub tries to be accurate script-wise.

Anyway, I still encourage anyone to reach out to Toon-A-Vision, but now that Kai is streaming on WeTV in Indonesia and the Phillipines as well as HBO Max in Latin America I think we should look to services like this as an option. BBC iPlayer is streaming Ocean's dub of Dragon Quest Dai, so it wouldn't hurt to send them an email informing them there is a dub of Kai with many of the same cast members older UK fans would remember from their childhood.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by TheGreatness25 » Tue Oct 11, 2022 11:17 am

You know, I feel like fans that want this thing to see the light of day have been talking about reaching out to TV beetroot networks. Rather, wouldn't it be the more on the entity that commissioned Ocean Studios to work on it in the first place? There's also probably a lot of red tape surrounding distribution rights and I would imagine that Funimation has at least tried to secure exclusive deals from Toei to be the distributor in English-speaking markets.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Oct 11, 2022 11:29 am

TheGreatness25 wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 11:17 am You know, I feel like fans that want this thing to see the light of day have been talking about reaching out to TV beetroot networks. Rather, wouldn't it be the more on the entity that commissioned Ocean Studios to work on it in the first place? There's also probably a lot of red tape surrounding distribution rights and I would imagine that Funimation has at least tried to secure exclusive deals from Toei to be the distributor in English-speaking markets.
There is no entity that commissioned this dub other than Ocean themselves, who either bought a license from TOEI, or the rights they had to create their own dubs of the series still applied in 2010-2014. There's no red tape, all that's required is an interested platform whether that be a streamer or a traditional broadcaster. TOEI's own Lisa Yamatoya said that they would be happy to allow Wow Unlimited to air Ocean Kai on their channel, even if she tried to suggest at one point that they consider Funimation's dub. That is all that would be preventing this dub from being released, all we need to do is hope whoever is the manager for programming plays their cards right and understands why this dub is far more desired than Funimation's Kai. As I understand it the head of Toon-A-Vision is, so every email to that channel counts.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:49 am

So from what I've been told YTV is to air Mary and the Witch's Flower, which will mark the first time in about a decade the channel has shown any anime.

I would urge anyone to reach out to YTV now about airing Ocean Kai, because you never know, they do have a history of airing not just Dragon Ball, but specifically the older Canadian dubs.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:18 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:49 am So from what I've been told YTV is to air Mary and the Witch's Flower, which will mark the first time in about a decade the channel has shown any anime.

I would urge anyone to reach out to YTV now about airing Ocean Kai, because you never know, they do have a history of airing not just Dragon Ball, but specifically the older Canadian dubs.
Granted, YTV was offered and turned down Ocean Kai several times...but a network's position on various issues changes along with whatever execs are in charge of it at the time. So maybe there's a "new guard" that'd be more open to it.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:10 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMfLbKxFki8

Here's Lee Tockar talking about Frieza at a TFCon.
"It was deemed to be too awesome." - Scott McNeil on Dragon Ball Kai not being aired yet in Canada.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by SX10 » Wed Oct 26, 2022 11:29 am

8000 Saiyan wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:10 am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMfLbKxFki8

Here's Lee Tockar talking about Frieza at a TFCon.
A wonderfully intelligent and generous answer to a clever question. That's awesome.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Oct 26, 2022 12:42 pm

So Tockar could taste blood after some of the sessions? Sounds like he gave those screams his all. I say we should expect a great performance for his Freeza.

Interesting this is not the only time I've heard him express a preference for Ocean's dub over Funimations.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by SX10 » Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:01 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 12:42 pm So Tockar could taste blood after some of the sessions? Sounds like he gave those screams his all. I say we should expect a great performance for his Freeza.

Interesting this is not the only time I've heard him express a preference for Ocean's dub over Funimations.
Really? Wow what was the other example?
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:12 pm

SX10 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:01 pm
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 12:42 pm So Tockar could taste blood after some of the sessions? Sounds like he gave those screams his all. I say we should expect a great performance for his Freeza.

Interesting this is not the only time I've heard him express a preference for Ocean's dub over Funimations.
Really? Wow what was the other example?
It was when he described the dub as being darker but more whimsical.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by SX10 » Thu Oct 27, 2022 1:18 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:12 pm
SX10 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:01 pm
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 12:42 pm So Tockar could taste blood after some of the sessions? Sounds like he gave those screams his all. I say we should expect a great performance for his Freeza.

Interesting this is not the only time I've heard him express a preference for Ocean's dub over Funimations.
Really? Wow what was the other example?
It was when he described the dub as being darker but more whimsical.
Ah yes, of course, sorry I misunderstood.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:19 am

SX10 wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 1:18 pm
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:12 pm
SX10 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:01 pm

Really? Wow what was the other example?
It was when he described the dub as being darker but more whimsical.
Ah yes, of course, sorry I misunderstood.
No worries man. I know where your coming from as I'm anxious for any news we can get about this dub.

It must be really frustrating for Lee Tockar too, as he's still hoping someone can leak find clips from this dub. Recently he had a fanmade what-if video of himself in Resurrection F for being from Dragon Ball Kai. Of course Ocean Kai, and specifically the Freeza arc was dubbed a full decade ago now, and with all the other stuff Tockar works on I don't blame him for misremembering what parts of this franchise he did and didn't work on, but I wonder if him recognising his voice in this video could mean any aspects of it are similar to his Freeza voice. For the record the voice we hear from Freeza in that fan-made clip is lifted from the character Half-Life in Hull : The Video Game in 2003 who Tockar also voiced. Sadly the video has since been removed but I remember it being a madman voice like we heard in that interview.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by KingVegetto » Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:58 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:49 am So from what I've been told YTV is to air Mary and the Witch's Flower, which will mark the first time in about a decade the channel has shown any anime.

I would urge anyone to reach out to YTV now about airing Ocean Kai, because you never know, they do have a history of airing not just Dragon Ball, but specifically the older Canadian dubs.
They also notably aired episode 33-40 of the english dub of Knights of the Zodiac after Cartoon Network stopped airing new episodes of the dub after 32, so I wouldn't put it past them to show an interest in this particular dub as well.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by TheBalishChannel » Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:47 am

I have to admit that over the past decade it has gotten more and more on my nerves how apparent it is that the Ocean Studios actors seem to care very little about their roles as such iconic characters. The fact that Lee Tockar can't even recognize his own voice or the show itself doesn't instill any confidence that he took the role seriously.

There's more to giving a good performance than just making sure your "vocal chords bleed." If I had a nickel for every time the English dub actors said that!

I think it's far too forgiving to say that "well, he did voice it a decade ago, so it's fair to assume it's not fresh in his memory." Lee boldly claims he prefers their work to FUNimation's as it relates to Kai but he's seemingly ignorant to whomever voices Goku in the dub he worked on.

That is to say nothing about how Ian Corlett and Brian Drummond can't seem to list a single "favorite moment" in any interview or Q&A panel pertaining to DBZ. "Oh, I had to look up a line for Goku" or "I really liked voicing the purple copy Vegeta, probably because it's the freshest thing in my mind right now."

As a side note, it's telling that even people like Mike Smith and Scott Morgan (two of the composers that worked under Faulconer Productions) could tell me more about what makes Vegeta an interesting character than even Brian Drummond who voiced the flippin' character. I guess having a little pride in your work helps you remember and appreciate it more.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:51 pm

TheBalishChannel wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:47 am I have to admit that over the past decade it has gotten more and more on my nerves how apparent it is that the Ocean Studios actors seem to care very little about their roles as such iconic characters. The fact that Lee Tockar can't even recognize his own voice or the show itself doesn't instill any confidence that he took the role seriously.

There's more to giving a good performance than just making sure your "vocal chords bleed." If I had a nickel for every time the English dub actors said that!

I think it's far too forgiving to say that "well, he did voice it a decade ago, so it's fair to assume it's not fresh in his memory." Lee boldly claims he prefers their work to FUNimation's as it relates to Kai but he's seemingly ignorant to whomever voices Goku in the dub he worked on.

That is to say nothing about how Ian Corlett and Brian Drummond can't seem to list a single "favorite moment" in any interview or Q&A panel pertaining to DBZ. "Oh, I had to look up a line for Goku" or "I really liked voicing the purple copy Vegeta, probably because it's the freshest thing in my mind right now."

As a side note, it's telling that even people like Mike Smith and Scott Morgan (two of the composers that worked under Faulconer Productions) could tell me more about what makes Vegeta an interesting character than even Brian Drummond who voiced the flippin' character. I guess having a little pride in your work helps you remember and appreciate it more.
People have lives, health issues and other things that do not revolve around Dragon Ball or allow them to obssessively remember things about it. It's not a competition and it's not anyone's place but their own to describe their fondness or opinions on a work of art.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by NitroEX » Fri Nov 04, 2022 1:03 pm

TheBalishChannel wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:47 am I have to admit that over the past decade it has gotten more and more on my nerves how apparent it is that the Ocean Studios actors seem to care very little about their roles as such iconic characters.
Gonna be honest, I don't think that's a fair comment considering they're constantly recording new projects, many of which are cartoons and only some anime. We know anime dubbing is done by recording one actor in a booth at a time so by default it's going to be less memorable work. And for many of them, it's not like they're going out of their way to watch the end result. And it's not as if they get to see whole scenes when dubbing, it's just their isolated lines or yells/fight reacts.

When DBZ was first recorded there wasn't even any fanfare yet, it was just a minority of older fans on the internet who were complaining about the dub, and unless the actors were tech-savvy they probably weren't even reading it. DBZ only became 'iconic' after the majority of children who grew up with it started influencing culture but the actors themselves had no reason to assume it would be fondly remembered and had understandably forgotten much of it by that point.

The reason the Funimation/Texas cast is so intimate with it is that for many of them it basically started their voiceover careers and became their life from then on. They were always returning to variations of the material either by redubbing the anime, movies, DVD interviews and panels, or dubbing the videogames year after year. Sure, they were also dubbing other anime series along the way, and some moved on to better-paying work, but it was bound to be a more memorable experience for a cast of actors who got their first big break dubbing DBZ.

For most of the Vancouver actors, it was just another gig for them, they were already working actors in the business looking to land bigger roles or just continue to earn a living. And for most of them, the Dragon Ball-centric conventions are a fairly recent thing for them.
The fact that Lee Tockar can't even recognize his own voice or the show itself doesn't instill any confidence that he took the role seriously.
I wouldn't say so. He's shown more enthusiasm for Kai than most of the Ocean cast. He seems to be proud of his work and made some effort to find out what happened to it, so it hints that he took the role seriously enough to me.

With the voice, I had guessed years prior that he'd used a similar voice to Half-Life based on descriptions of his Freeza and hearing his past roles. It wound up being a fairly accurate guess based on what we've heard of Freeza thus far so it doesn't surprise me that he mistook a fan edit of that voice for something he recorded as Freeza. For what it's worth, he does have an eyesight issue too which might've played a part in this mistake. Also, his assistant had been looking for Kai on his behalf and probably sent it to him not knowing the difference.

He strikes me as an older guy who isn't very clued into all this, which I can't really blame him for.
There's more to giving a good performance than just making sure your "vocal chords bleed." If I had a nickel for every time the English dub actors said that!
I can agree with the vocal cords comment but, in Lee Tockar's case, he might not have experienced a role with that much yelling before. So from his perspective, it probably was a unique challenge he enjoyed overcoming, hence why it left more of an impression on him.

Also, a lot of the vocal cord comments originally came from the Texas cast. Even going back to a 2005 panel on YT I recall many of them talking about passing out on DBZ and wrecking their voices. If anything it came across as just a lack of experience and improper technique, but they viewed it as a point of pride not knowing any better. McNeil for example, who screamed way harder than Sabat in Z, did not complain about destroying his vocal cords on that same panel.
I think it's far too forgiving to say that "well, he did voice it a decade ago, so it's fair to assume it's not fresh in his memory." Lee boldly claims he prefers their work to FUNimation's as it relates to Kai but he's seemingly ignorant to whomever voices Goku in the dub he worked on.
Assuming Goku was recorded before him and not the other way around. Either way, he may not be familiar with Richard's voice or even know the guy personally to recognize him as Goku.

Personally, I question how much of Ocean Kai he's actually seen. It was possibly just his finished scenes in one episode or two. But in regards to Funi Kai, he's probably only compared clips of Freeza with what he recalls of his own performance. He may also be factoring in music, script and directing choices.
That is to say nothing about how Ian Corlett and Brian Drummond can't seem to list a single "favorite moment" in any interview or Q&A panel pertaining to DBZ. "Oh, I had to look up a line for Goku" or "I really liked voicing the purple copy Vegeta, probably because it's the freshest thing in my mind right now."
See above. They were there from the beginning and weren't fans of anime. It's reasonable they didn't retain much of it or revisit it. For a long time it was hard to even track down their version to rewatch, and still remains that way for the later Z arcs.
Also, both Drummond and Corlett were family men when they started, they weren't going to be watching anime in their spare time unless their kids happened to have it on. Both of them have mentioned in interviews they don't watch their own stuff very often.
As a side note, it's telling that even people like Mike Smith and Scott Morgan (two of the composers that worked under Faulconer Productions) could tell me more about what makes Vegeta an interesting character than even Brian Drummond who voiced the flippin' character. I guess having a little pride in your work helps you remember and appreciate it more.
Again, I think getting your first big break on a show like DBZ vs it just being another gig amongst others makes a big difference here. Mike Smith and Scott Morgan were college students who probably watched DBZ on TV and became fans of it. Drummond was a working actor who, like most, doesn't go out of their way to watch their own stuff and hadn't had a chance to revisit it due to it being fairly inaccessible beyond YT clips. In the case of the composers, they were also (to my memory) involved in fan communities online whereas Drummond and Corlett were not, and I honestly don't blame them considering how toxic it can get.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by SX10 » Sat Nov 05, 2022 1:58 pm

It's simple. Are you the person who's boasting about the small amount of work they have done all the time, or are you gonna be the person busy working? I'm sure it does mean a lot to them, I'm also sure they have a huge history in the business and an ever growing body of work and a personal life to keep. I don't expect cast and crew to be (big) fans of the shows and I don't expect them to be as familiar with their work as the average viewer because it would be peculiarly self-absorbed.

I think it's pretty amazing they get to as many cons as they do, but I never fail to cringe when someone expects them to know Super or they get asked how they felt when they said a line on a Thursday afternoon, 10 years ago.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by TheGreatness25 » Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:18 pm

On a lot of levels, it's just a job to them. And that's not a bad thing--we're the fans, they're the workers. If they're also fans, cool. But life isn't always like that.

There's a Batman: The Animated Series special where someone (I forget who particularly) said that he wishes he could say it was this magical time where they felt they were working on this big passion project, but the reality is that it was a job.

Sometimes the guy stacking the UFC merchandise at the store didn't watch the last PPV, you know? It can't all be passion prohects--otherwise the entire first go-around of DB/DBZ wouldn't have been dubbed and most new shows wouldn't be made because the actors simply work on these things before they even know what it'll be in the end.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 12; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:11 pm

So just back from Saffron Henderson, Brian Dobson and Karl Willems' livestream on Instagram taking fan questions.

Here's what we've learned:
  • None of them are sure why the musical score was replaced, or if Kai was recorded with broadcast or home video in mind
  • None recall the pronunciation of Saiyan being any different for Kai, so I'm pretty sure it will be "Say-an" as usual and not "Sai-an"
    • Karl prefers to keep pronunciations as is, which explains why the Westwood dub kept the correct pronunciation of Saiyan from the Pioneer movies
    • Pronunciations are the producer's decision, not the director
  • No one remembers if Kirby Morrow got any roles or who played Bardock, Cell, Future Trunks or Krillin
  • Brian Dobson rewrote usable dub dialogue from the Japanese translations
  • Karl Willems directed most of the Westwood dub
  • Karl directed all of the Kai recorded at Ocean, so there may have been someone else at Blue Water
  • Karl and the cast pushed for "Over 9,000" to be used but the producers wanted it to be "Over 8,000"
    • On that note, it was only before directing Kai, Karl became aware Over 9,000 was a meme, as his kid had told him
  • Karl didn't know Kai went unreleased and was really disappointed when he heard as he was very impressed with how it turned out
    • Moreover, we will never see any clips of Kai shared online before its released, as Ocean are very strict about who owns what and they wouldn't be at liberty to post videos
  • Karl prefers being involved in the creative process than the logistical and doesn't know what goes on in other departments
  • Karl prefers natural performances from the cast, whereas the engineers push for super accurate lip flaps when dubbing
  • The decision to cast characters is not based on matching the Japanese actor, but how the character is written
    • With regards to Richard Ian Cox and being comparable to other Gokus, Karl said "It was the spirit, it was the attitude"
  • Translations are typically based on the Japanese script but often they need to go through client approval, which for shows like Dragon Ball is typically broadcasters
  • Scripts are rewritten to fit mouth flaps
  • Lee Tockar did a lot of improv (may explain what he meant about Ocean Kai being more "whimsical")
  • Ocean almost exclusively does the mixing for any anime they work on, prelaid shows are sometimes outsourced
  • Barry Watson was at the last Kamehacon and was best man at Terry Klassen's wedding, turns out they're still great friends with him after all these years
They teased doing another one soon, and maybe a world tour :D, as there were many requests for them to visit the UK, Ireland, Tennessee and places like that.
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