The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Krillin, Tien, & Yamcha (23rd Budokai) vs Ginger, Nicky, & Sansho
Bardock (Father of Goku Special) vs Kishime, Ebifurya, & Misokatsun
Dodoria & Cui vs Amond, Daiz, Cacao, Raisin, & Lakasei
Nail vs Angila, Medamatcha, & Wings
Abo & Cado vs Salza, Neiz, Doore
Future Androids 17 & 18 vs Androids 14 & 15
2 Cell Jr.'s vs Zangya, Bido, Bujin, & Kogu
Babidi vs Hoi

I think each of Garlic Jr's goons is around the 200 mark, and shoot to 250 tops at their buff forms since they're still taken down very easily by weighted Goku and Piccolo (Somewhat above 300 each). I think the humans can win: Tien will kill his own goon before he can power up, help Kuririn and then they'll help Yamcha. Yamcha is the weakest, the only one to not break the 200 mark, but he can manage something with the Sokidan which earned Kami's praise. The only way the Garlic goons win is if they're beefed up from the start, and even then Tenshinhan might still kill one with a Kikoho, but will be too tired to put any further resistance.

I don't think Bardock can take this. He's roughly as strong as Goku was in Movie 2, and even Goku needed Kaio-Ken taking each of these guys 1v1.

Gohan with a power level of 10k killed one of the Raisin/Lakasei twins. None of Tullece's goons seem to really go much beyond 10k, so Dodoria and Kui can take this.

Nail. I think Piccolo is as strong as Nail in this movie, so he can deal with these guys. I don't think Piccolo ever took all 3 at once (Goku killed Medamatcha), but he killed the other two so easily I don't see Nail losing to 3.

Abo and Cado are merely as strong as Freeza's 1st form. Neiz and Dore are a bit unclear, but Salza was keeping up with Piccolo who's as strong as 2nd form Freeza at least. Their only hope here is fusion, which could maybe beat even Cooler.

17 and 18 win. 14 himself lost to Trunks who the androids didn't think much of, and 15 is probably just a bit weaker than SSJ Vegeta. Strong enough to give either twin a hard fight alone, but nothing agains them together.

They're more or less the same level, though I'm not sure if Bojack's goons should be weaker or stronger than the Cell Jrs. Still, their teamwork is pretty consistent and they got those invisible threads. The Jrs die.

Good Boo is sure an odd one to figure out. I see some people just take South Kaioshin + Grand Kaioshin and have that be is power level, others have it as Grand Kaioshin still weakening him. I really can't decide.

Also Vegeta was not stronger than Goku at the start of the ToP. We have official preview info that said Goku and Freeza were tied for #1 spot in power for the U7 team so that would mean Goku > Vegeta.

I've considered that an option too, but I don't even know how strong South and Dai Kaioshin are so it's fairly pointless. Vegeta is #2 after Goku when Super starts, so I think Good Boo is still high SSJ2 tier for Vegeta to catch up without serious improvements. The Moro Saga is the first time they ever try to explain Boo's power, so I like my explanation that he's the same he was post split but with a lot more dormant power.

At the very least, he's weaker than he used to be (Because Pure Boo is missing and I think OG Fat Boo)

Spoiler:

Goku's individual box says he's the strongest, and then Freeza's box says he's as strong as Goku. Presumably only the first is considering Kaio-Ken Blue since Freeza obviously doesn't rival that.

[ZombieVito]

I've considered that an option too, but I don't even know how strong South and Dai Kaioshin are so it's fairly pointless. Vegeta is #2 after Goku when Super starts, so I think Good Boo is still high SSJ2 tier for Vegeta to catch up without serious improvements. The Moro Saga is the first time they ever try to explain Boo's power, so I like my explanation that he's the same he was post split but with a lot more dormant power.

At the very least, he's weaker than he used to be (Because Pure Boo is missing and I think OG Fat Boo)

Spoiler:

Goku's individual box says he's the strongest, and then Freeza's box says he's as strong as Goku. Presumably only the first is considering Kaio-Ken Blue since Freeza obviously doesn't rival that.

Yeah, I think I'm going to settle with having him be the same as he was post split. I actually don't think Vegeta is #2 when Super starts, he surely doesn't surpass Gotenks until his Quake of Fury against Beerus.

Well, yeah, it's obviously not counting Kaioken since even the show says SSB Goku = Golden Freeza.

[Hellspawn28]

Metal Coola (Post-Repairs) vs. #16
Paikuhan vs. Hatchiyack
Orange Piccolo vs Youth Restore Moro (No ki asborbing)
Gamma 1 & 2 vs. TOP Golden Freeza
SSj3 Trunten (Trunks & Goten Potara Fusion) vs. Buuhan

[Koitsukai]

Metal Coola (Post-Repairs) vs. #16
Paikuhan vs. Hatchiyack
Orange Piccolo vs Youth Restore Moro (No ki asborbing)
Gamma 1 & 2 vs. TOP Golden Freeza
SSj3 Trunten (Trunks & Goten Potara Fusion) vs. Buuhan

1- Post-repairs would be a Metal Cooler after the second movie? Metal Cooler was supposed to mirror 17 and 18 type of threat. I think 16 can take him out. SS Goku and SS Vegeta pre-ROSAT would never be able to take 16 like they took out Cooler.

2- Wasn't Hatchiyack said to be stronger than Broly? he was fighting several SS at the same time. Paikuhan failed to defeat SS Goku, I don't think he stands a chance.

3- Orange Piccolo destroys Moro. I think he could even take on Moro right before he eat 7-3, or at least give him a better fight than Sign Goku did.

4- The androids were really strong, probably stronger than current SSB Goku. ToP Golden Freeza might be able to beat each of them individually, but not both of them at the same time.

5- Trunten should be as strong as Gotenks, but lasting twice as long. The kids weren't rivals so there shouldn't be an extra boost. An hour won't make a difference, the gap is too much. Even if they were to get a boost, it shouldn't put them past Buutenks.

[Seekeroftruth]

Orange PIccolo


vs

SSB Evolution Vegeta and SSB Kaioken goku

[ZombieVito]

Orange PIccolo


vs

SSB Evolution Vegeta and SSB Kaioken goku

Piccolo one shots them both.

[GatoF]

1. Golden Freeza(Broly) vs Episode 110 DBS Genkidama (Freeza survived a genkidama once can he do it again?)
2. Cell Max with the brain of the original Cell vs UE Vegeta
3. Kamicollo vs Android 18
4. SSJ1 Broly vs 3rd UI sign Goku
5. SSJ1 Goten (Buu arc Post-Rosat) vs SSJ1 Gohan (Cell Games)
6. Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta (BoG) vs Base Piccolo (Super Hero)

[Koitsukai]

1. Golden Freeza(Broly) vs Episode 110 DBS Genkidama (Freeza survived a genkidama once can he do it again?)
2. Cell Max with the brain of the original Cell vs UE Vegeta
3. Kamicollo vs Android 18
4. SSJ1 Broly vs 3rd UI sign Goku
5. SSJ1 Goten (Buu arc Post-Rosat) vs SSJ1 Gohan (Cell Games)
6. Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta (BoG) vs Base Piccolo (Super Hero)

1- The genkidama that took genki from Namek and other satellites should be stronger than one made of the genki of 9 people, and he survived that one. However, they made the genkidama be a power level of sorts, a big one. But Freeza survived hakai energy, twice, a drop of it and an actual attack from Toppo, so that Genkidama should be a walk in the park.

2- The implication was that perhaps not even both saiyans could be enough for Cell Max. A smart Cell Max probably beats Vegeta like Perfect Cell did back in the day.

3- 17 failed to defeat Kamiccolo, the weaker 18 won't stand a chance, not even with her infinite stamina.

4- I think Goku makes Broly go FP.

5- Inside the ROSAT, they mostly trained as Gotenks, so I'm not sure if only Gotenks got gains or if the kids as well got them. I'm going with Gohan, just because Goten is less experienced and much more childish.

6- Piccolo is base or at best SS level before the wish. Vegeta's rage was high Z tier back in BoG, he oneshots.

[ZombieVito]

1. Golden Freeza(Broly) vs Episode 110 DBS Genkidama (Freeza survived a genkidama once can he do it again?)
2. Cell Max with the brain of the original Cell vs UE Vegeta
3. Kamicollo vs Android 18
4. SSJ1 Broly vs 3rd UI sign Goku
5. SSJ1 Goten (Buu arc Post-Rosat) vs SSJ1 Gohan (Cell Games)
6. Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta (BoG) vs Base Piccolo (Super Hero)

1.- Freeza is at minimum 20 times weaker than that Genkidama. He dies.
2.- Cell Max.
3.- Piccolo wins after a good fight.
4.- Broly would win thanks to UI Sign massive toll on Goku.
5.- Gohan one shots.
6.- Piccolo finger flicks him. Current base tier is multiple of times stronger than this Vegeta.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Metal Coola (Post-Repairs) vs. #16
Paikuhan vs. Hatchiyack
Orange Piccolo vs Youth Restore Moro (No ki asborbing)
Gamma 1 & 2 vs. TOP Golden Freeza
SSj3 Trunten (Trunks & Goten Potara Fusion) vs. Buuhan

Given how Metal Cooler sent 10 billion copies of himself to get Goku and Vegeta (who were very tired by that point), I think he was reaching a plateau by that moment around Android 17's level at best. 16 tanks and then one shots him.

Paikuhan could defeat even Super Perfect Cell with his techniques... Hatchiyak is Perfect Cell level at best, so he stands no chance here.

Even Ultimate Piccolo wins this. Dai Kaioshin or one of the Saiyans said SSJB could've defeated Moro back on Namek if not for his magic.

The Gammas deliver justice. Each one is probably a bit stronger than Freeza alone, both is overkill.

When Goku was planning to fuse with Gohan vs Gotenks-Boo, he expected SSJ to be needed and Old Kaioshin told him it wasn't. For me that suggests Base Potara > SSJ Dance, which means Trunkten wins even with SSJ1.

Orange PIccolo

vs

SSB Evolution Vegeta and SSB Kaioken goku

I have Piccolo as strong as either Saiyan currently, so he'd lose. If this is the Saiyans from the ToP then it's a fight I'd love to see. There's something special about Goku and Vegeta fighting together - I remember someone says Jiren was having trouble keeping up because or their sync (or lack thereof). I don't think even a genius like Piccolo could overcome this, so he also loses in this scenario.

1. Golden Freeza(Broly) vs Episode 110 DBS Genkidama (Freeza survived a genkidama once can he do it again?)
2. Cell Max with the brain of the original Cell vs UE Vegeta
3. Kamicollo vs Android 18
4. SSJ1 Broly vs 3rd UI sign Goku
5. SSJ1 Goten (Buu arc Post-Rosat) vs SSJ1 Gohan (Cell Games)
6. Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta (BoG) vs Base Piccolo (Super Hero)

1. I think Freeza survives, but terribly fucked up. The only reason I think he survives is because of how the Genki-Dama never works as a finishing blow (Outside of the Kid Boo fight).

2. I assume this is "Anime" Cell Max (i.e. scaled to anime logic) vs Manga UE Vegeta? Because manga vs manga would be an obvious stomp in Cell's favour. In this anime vs manga set up I think Vegeta would finally get his revenge - Cell Max is probably on a similar level to Moro, and Vegeta can tank these guys since he's as strong as UI Goku.

3. Piccolo barely wins since 18 is just a tiny bit behind 17.

4. I have them at more or less the same. I think Broly wins since apparently UI Sign isn't good offensively, so all Goku can do is dodge. Sure he did that Kamehameha thing vs Kefla, but Broly is such a tank I don't see him losing like that. Even Kefla seemed to "just" be knocked out of the arena (and coincidentally run out of time).

5. Gohan gives his little brother a lesson. I think Goten became as strong as Gohan from the Boo Saga, which is still much weaker than Cell Games Gohan.

6. Piccolo should win. He's Current Base Saiyan level, which is far above Vegeta here.

[TobyS]

How do you think would win out of the current match ups, the dark power infused guys in the grey column or the teams to the right.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I'm not seeing Gogeta last long enough to beat all of them.

I think Gohan and the Piccolos will struggle in their fight.

I can't see Chilled winning on his own.

I can see Trunks winning his fight but the other two struggling.

Buu seems seriously outmatched, even powered up.

Assuming these fights aren't interupted.

[Thani]

How do you think would win out of the current match ups, the dark power infused guys in the grey column or the teams to the right.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I'm not seeing Gogeta last long enough to beat all of them.

I think Gohan and the Piccolos will struggle in their fight.

I can't see Chilled winning on his own.

I can see Trunks winning his fight but the other two struggling.

Buu seems seriously outmatched, even powered up.

Assuming these fights aren't interupted.

Considering these matchups, I think it's gonna be a good ol' case of "Conservation of Ninjutsu", dragonball style. Meaning, those characters outnumbered will be individually a lot stronger than their opposition. So Buu's powerup will be enough to be a serious danger to even Jiren, while Dabra and company will struggle against 2 Piccolos and a Gohan because they're stronger than expected.

[TobyS]

How do you think would win out of the current match ups, the dark power infused guys in the grey column or the teams to the right.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I'm not seeing Gogeta last long enough to beat all of them.

I think Gohan and the Piccolos will struggle in their fight.

I can't see Chilled winning on his own.

I can see Trunks winning his fight but the other two struggling.

Buu seems seriously outmatched, even powered up.

Assuming these fights aren't interupted.

Considering these matchups, I think it's gonna be a good ol' case of "Conservation of Ninjutsu", dragonball style. Meaning, those characters outnumbered will be individually a lot stronger than their opposition. So Buu's powerup will be enough to be a serious danger to even Jiren, while Dabra and company will struggle against 2 Piccolos and a Gohan because they're stronger than expected.

Yeah they could also do the whole “the tournament was interrupted ”

They could do something creative like buu not being that big a deal but then absorbing people because only vegeta knows he can do that.

I think we might see chilled gold. I don't think we will see chilled black or orange and beast due to these arcs starting too long ago and being plotted before that. Although it'd be cool if they added this stuff after the fact.

[Hellspawn28]

If Kuririn used Kaioken during the Android saga, how strong would he be?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

If Kuririn used Kaioken during the Android saga, how strong would he be?

I'd have him just as strong as Base Goku was against Freeza on the 3,000,000 mark. I don't think any of the humans came even close to the million mark anymore (Before Super, that is): If the Base Saiyans peaked on Freeza's level, then I think it makes sense for the humans to peak around Ginyu's level or so.

How do you think would win out of the current match ups, the dark power infused guys in the grey column or the teams to the right.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I'm not seeing Gogeta last long enough to beat all of them.

I think Gohan and the Piccolos will struggle in their fight.

I can't see Chilled winning on his own.

I can see Trunks winning his fight but the other two struggling.

Buu seems seriously outmatched, even powered up.

Assuming these fights aren't interupted.

Where are these match ups from? SDBH Manga?

[ZombieVito]

If the Base Saiyans peaked on Freeza's level, then I think it makes sense for the humans to peak around Ginyu's level or so.

Oof that's low.

Krillin was already at 75,000 (And rising!) while fighting Freeza.

[TobyS]

Where are these match ups from? SDBH Manga?

Yeah the latest chapter. The current arc is really fun actually.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

If the Base Saiyans peaked on Freeza's level, then I think it makes sense for the humans to peak around Ginyu's level or so.

Oof that's low.

Krillin was already at 75,000 (And rising!) while fighting Freeza.

Sure, but bear with me for a moment: Goku himself got maybe 2x as strong after Namek and before the Rosat, and Kuririn and Yamcha passed down an offer to train with him because they didn't think they could keep up. They don't really have any relevance whatsoever in the fights after this.

The closest thing the humans have to feats are Yamcha being good energy for Gero (Which is really vague) and Tenshinhan only giving up on surpassing Goku after he reveals SSJ (which is also vague since Base Goku never does anything here anyway).

[Koitsukai]

1- Vegito inside Buu's body, being a tiny fraction of his actual self, as seen when the saiyans were blasting that big worm that was tanking everything, and Super Buu telling them they cannot do anything being that small. Who can he defeat being that small? can he beat Murasaki? what about someone stronger like Piccolo Daimao?

2- Buuhan's Kamikaze Ghost attack, the sentient ones that can use different techniques and control them, etc. Can one of them destroy Fat Majin Buu?

3- What about SS Gotenks' Kamizake Ghost Attack? can one of them kill Perfect Cell?

4- SS Goten and SS Trunks vs Piccolo (Buu arc)

5- How strong do you need to be to open a portal by shouting like Super Buu and SS3 Gotenks?
SS Gotenks couldn't, so could SS3 Goku open one? Kid Buu? or is Super Buu's level the lowest tier that can do this?

6- How do you rank these guys and how far are they from one another?
SS Gotenks
SS3 Goku
Majin Vegeta
Fat Majin Buu
Grey Buu
Kid Buu
Good Buu

If Kuririn used Kaioken during the Android saga, how strong would he be?

On Namek, he died with a BP of 150k at best. Three years of training puts him at 300k? doubling his power sounds ok, even though nobody doubled their power during that time, and they were hitting it harder than Krilin. But he is still useless, so it doesn't matter.
KK takes him to 600k, maybe 1M if he exerts himself. He'd be like Goku on Namek if his body can take it, and it more than likely cannot.

[Seekeroftruth]

Mastered UI Goku



vs

Superman #1050


Info on new powers and ability
https://youtu.be/thO0H2qOSzk