MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 3/4/24!)

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 2/6/23!)

Post by Zephyr » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:25 pm

DanielSSJ wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:18 pm Yeah, but is the company that decided to render two of DBZ's main villains as "Fliza" and "Sal". This may just be me, but without a source pun, I'd say phonetics takes precedent over spelling.
Were "Fliza" and "Sal" shown in the anime, or is this on merch? Toei and Shueisha aren't the same company, after all. Regardless, "Fliza" and "Sal" are only egregious because we know of puns that they fail to capture; if we didn't, we wouldn't have any real reason to think them problematic renderings of the names. But, fair enough. For me, they clearly spelled out their take on how to spell that character's name, and we have no pun that gives us reason to question it. We'll have to agree to disagree!

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 2/6/23!)

Post by DanielSSJ » Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:31 am

Zephyr wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:25 pm Were "Fliza" and "Sal" shown in the anime, or is this on merch? Toei and Shueisha aren't the same company, after all.
I forget which episode, but they show up on one of Gero's computers showing the DNA makeup of Cell. MistareFusion made a joke about off model Cell actually being "Sal" in DBDTV
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 2/6/23!)

Post by nineko » Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:40 am

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 2/6/23!)

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:13 am

Yuli Ban wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:59 pm
Gaffer Tape wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:32 am Drag-in Ball - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 5

It's here! Dragon Ball Dissection begins for 2023 with a whole lot more GT. We're on three different planets: the greedy planet, the bee planet, and the "we already did this better" planet! Also, why does that little robot vex me so? Help! I hope you enjoy the video. And, yeah, maybe I'll make a thread about Giru/Gill/DB4649T2006RS/DD4649T22006RS/DD4649T2006RS to see if anyone has any idea what's going on here.
Total throwaway line for me to break down, but on the topic of "alien aerobics instructors....."

I mean....

Toriyama pre-empted that look YEARS ago with the Saiyajins and Freeza Force. It's not quite as blatant, but when you break down Saiyan armor, what is it but literally "militarized glam rock fitness freak gear?"
The monkeys and the refrigerator people clad in one-piece spandex, arm bands, wrist bands, leg warmers, wrist warmers, roller derby knee pads, even headbands. With sci-fi armor on top. Just gratuitously, almost atrociously 80s/early 90s.

I actually remember when I first became aware of this. It was because of Xenoverse 2 of all things, when I unlocked Bardock's clothes and suddenly noticed he was wearing hot leg and wristwarmers, and that got me to take a second look at the entirety of the Freeza Force, especially the likes of Raditz, Selipa, Zarbon, and the Ginyu Force.

Yeah, without a doubt.


It's part of why I love Dragon Ball. It's such an accidental period piece; it's so gratuitously 80s/90s Japanese pop culture that it hurts.
Oh man, you're totally right. I'd never realized that.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 2/6/23!)

Post by Zephyr » Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:25 am

DanielSSJ wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:31 am
Zephyr wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:25 pm Were "Fliza" and "Sal" shown in the anime, or is this on merch? Toei and Shueisha aren't the same company, after all.
I forget which episode, but they show up on one of Gero's computers showing the DNA makeup of Cell. MistareFusion made a joke about off model Cell actually being "Sal" in DBDTV
nineko wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:40 am Image
Well hey, fair enough. :lol:

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 2/6/23!)

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Feb 10, 2023 11:46 am

SAL, lol... maybe TOEI thought Vegeta, Kakarotto, and a Freeza make for a good SALad?

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 3/6/23!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:58 am

All One Story - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 6

The quest for the Dragon Balls continues, featuring a drunken catfish, a doll cult, and a *lady* being upset by tacky dances. Also, the long, long road to Baby begins right here. It's all connected. See it right now! Hope you enjoy!

I did settle on Giru, I say, as I hold my breath. Pan's two most annoying running gags rear their ugly heads. And, hey, I manage to cover a full three episodes again! What a roll I'm on!
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 3/6/23!)

Post by FoolsGil » Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:57 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:58 am All One Story - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 6

The quest for the Dragon Balls continues, featuring a drunken catfish, a doll cult, and a *lady* being upset by tacky dances. Also, the long, long road to Baby begins right here. It's all connected. See it right now! Hope you enjoy!

I did settle on Giru, I say, as I hold my breath. Pan's two most annoying running gags rear their ugly heads. And, hey, I manage to cover a full three episodes again! What a roll I'm on!
I think I figured out what has been grinding gears when it comes to Pan, and it comes down to what you talked about in a previous episode: How when the GT crew was selected, Pan was chosen because her personality is closer to Bulma. But, the writers didn't take into account that Bulma can't be just Bulma in a vacuum, lest she is insufferable.

-Bulma would go on about how she is a lady and pure and righteous, right before she gets some comeuppance. Or she gets herself into a predicament because of her hubris, and she has to get saved by the people she just admonished moments ago.

-Bulma and Goku argued quite a bit in their first adventure, with emphasis on Goku arguing back - He didn't take her crap lying down, willing to just up and leave her when they argued what to do with Turtle for example

-When Bulma won, it was in cases where she was dealing with Oolong or Master Roshi, criminals or perverts who deserved getting slapped around from time to time. (And even so, every so often they get one over on her.)

So Pan was put on the ship, with no situations to keep her grounded: Either due to maturity or family relation or both Goku isn't going to treat Pan like he did Bulma when he was actually younger. And Trunks is too goodie goodie to put up a fight either, and except for the Giant planet episode, Pan hasn't been separated from the others long enough to get into trouble. Suppose Giru could have been the one who kept up with Pan and made sure she didn't get too annoying:

-A savior for Pan's hubris when if she gets separated from Goku and Trunks, and she finds herself unable to punch her way out of a problem and needs a plan.

-an accidental / innocent pervert that humiliates Pan because he is curious about the human bodies, and Goku already explained / shown what's up about boys, being the open book he is.

-The snide wiseguy who has something good to say when Pan starts her "Lady" talk. Double points when she tries to attack him and misses, getting herself into some other kind of trouble.

One or all of these could have dramatically made Pan easier to deal with as a character

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 3/6/23!)

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:50 pm

The Bonpara Bros. were cute and the concept of the dance attack is good, but yeah, it's way too long. That music gets ingrained into your brain, 20 years later I can still hear it, I'm like a WWII vet having flashbacks.

All in all, aside from the unnecessary stretched Immega-based situations(I still can't believe they let some bots take away the walls from that poor couple, I just don't see the original Kid Goku not doing anything and just letting that slide, specially when he too will have to be under the cold rain, along with his granddaughter and "nephew"), the Zunama's whiskers thing, and that long-ass dance scene, I'm actually really fond of the first arc of GT.

I started the rewatch last night, I'm looking forward to seeing Goku the Dentist, and the whole pre-Baby arc, searching for the DBs. I do prefer the adventures in space over the ones on Earth/Plant.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 3/6/23!)

Post by Yuli Ban » Tue Mar 14, 2023 5:29 am

Yeah, my opinion might be unpopular, but the fuzzy transition into the Baby arc is my favorite part of GT, just because it feels like a mystery accidentally being unraveled. It's just an interesting derailment in general, and the fact Baby starts out almost as another villain of the week but becomes the arc villain is also pretty near. The Baby arc itself is hobbled by weird decisions.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/17/23!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Apr 17, 2023 11:19 am

Weirdo Doll Villain - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 7

Dragon Ball GT is back! We got cults and fights and... that weird villain who turns Pan into a doll. Yeesh. Here we are. And that's certainly worth devoting some time discussing. But from the perspective of structure, these episodes form the first of five distinct phases I consider to be GT's pivot into Z 2.0. Anyway, I hope you enjoy it!
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/17/23!)

Post by FoolsGil » Mon May 15, 2023 12:59 pm

On Part 7, there were some gems in GT, I knew I wasn't crazy! Goku having no rhythm is hilarious and too bad the writers didn't intentionally realize they explained why it would take Goku as long as it did to learn and teach the Fusion Dance. Trunks was there, would have been perfect for him to be like "wait a minute..." and cue a flashback of even fusion training Goku was tripping over his own feet, or something that showed he's off on things.

I wonder if the main boss switching constantly was them trying to One Up who was the main antagonist of the Cell arc, which, well I understand the criticisms and the truth behind the scenes, but when it's your first time going through it, well you have no idea what the hell is happening. They should have kept it far simpler as the example you provided.

On Part 8 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-JVwH5 ... tareFusion

Yep you hit the nail on the head with a sledgehammer. Like a lot things with GT, good ideas, poor planning and implementation. Pan and Giru does not work. But I will say this: At least there is a character dynamic. I can't help but notice that after the first few episodes of dissection Trunks is barely mentioned. and Goku, well he's definitely grown more aloof in his younger body/older mind. They're more there for what they can do, then what they can provide as characters. Why isn't Trunks stepping in, bonking Pan on the head and shouting at her for trying to smash their only way to gather dragonballs? Why isn't Giru asking questions to Goku about the intricacies of the human body, and Goku usually takes that to mean to show Giru, in which to horrify both Trunks and Pan in that small spaceship because growing up doesn't mean growing older for someone like Goku.

I don't understand how a company like Toei does not understand a property as simple as Dragonball. Or maybe Toei didn't realize how complex it is in its simplicity. But why are there so many misfires, with this franchise?

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 5/15/23!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Tue May 16, 2023 11:29 am

The Abusiveness of Pan - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 8

Really took out the dissecting scalpel for this one. I feel it's pretty common for the fanbase to find GT Pan annoying. There's a lot I like about her, but her weirdly abusive behavior towards Giru is not one them. So let's take a deep dive into this relationship, comparing it against the relationship it's clearly trying to emulate: Blooma and Oolong. Why is one funny when the other is... decidedly not? Hope you enjoy!
FoolsGil wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 12:59 pm I wonder if the main boss switching constantly was them trying to One Up who was the main antagonist of the Cell arc, which, well I understand the criticisms and the truth behind the scenes, but when it's your first time going through it, well you have no idea what the hell is happening. They should have kept it far simpler as the example you provided.
Thanks for picking up the slack for me. I have no idea how I forgot to make this post! Yeah, I think a lot of the problem with GT's implementation of this is that you can far more clearly see the writers' hands in it. It doesn't feel natural or motivated. For all the villain swapping with Cell, Toriyama structures it in ways that feel (mostly) natural.
Yep you hit the nail on the head with a sledgehammer. Like a lot things with GT, good ideas, poor planning and implementation. Pan and Giru does not work. But I will say this: At least there is a character dynamic. I can't help but notice that after the first few episodes of dissection Trunks is barely mentioned. and Goku, well he's definitely grown more aloof in his younger body/older mind. They're more there for what they can do, then what they can provide as characters. Why isn't Trunks stepping in, bonking Pan on the head and shouting at her for trying to smash their only way to gather dragonballs? Why isn't Giru asking questions to Goku about the intricacies of the human body, and Goku usually takes that to mean to show Giru, in which to horrify both Trunks and Pan in that small spaceship because growing up doesn't mean growing older for someone like Goku.
Ooh, those are some fantastic ideas. It just goes to show how the devil is in the details, and this story didn't seem terribly interested in the details. And, yeah, I've been noticing too that I haven't had much to say about Trunks lately. That's a shame given how soon and often he's going to be kicked out of the story.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/26/23!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Jun 26, 2023 9:59 am

Hyper Mega Lame - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 9

Dragon Ball Dissection is here! It's time for Planet M2. Goku fights a bunch of robot dudes. Giru gets a medal for being the bestest boy. And Pan sneaks into the tower... over and over and over again until we're begging for it to end. Check it out now!
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/26/23!)

Post by Scsigs » Mon Jun 26, 2023 10:16 am

I'm very glad I've never bothered to watch episodes 2-15 of GT, honestly, after seeing your retrospective of it so far. So very little of actual consequence happens, nor is there a lot to enjoy otherwise. Really shows FUNimation was more right than not to just skip them & make that American-only recap episode to cover all things of importance in them, which is very little, then just get to the Baby stuff when they dubbed & aired GT years ago.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/26/23!)

Post by DB1984 » Mon Jun 26, 2023 11:28 am

I am interested in hearing MistareFusion's thoughts on the last villains in the series, the Shadow Dragons. Does he think of them as a nice little twist? Or as an asspull contradiction of Roshi's fine speech at the very end of the original series on the importance of the Dragon Balls?

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/26/23!)

Post by MisteryOne » Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:43 pm

I don't know why but that last episode made my laugh a lot, and I really needed it so thank you.

I wish I could contribute something else but...I don't think I can. The way the writers treat Pan has always been a known thing I feel -even trough part of this fandom will obviously go and defend it- and I always thought the same about Rilld's forms, there is no way their names were not swapped.

I do remember that as a kid I was impressed by Goku "losing" the fight and trying to make logic of it by thinking that maybe he couldn't turn into SS3. Obviously that was not the case, but I just want to mention it because his actual defeat/death later on feels bizarrely easy in comparison.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/26/23!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Jun 26, 2023 9:34 pm

Scsigs wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 10:16 am I'm very glad I've never bothered to watch episodes 2-15 of GT, honestly, after seeing your retrospective of it so far. So very little of actual consequence happens, nor is there a lot to enjoy otherwise. Really shows FUNimation was more right than not to just skip them & make that American-only recap episode to cover all things of importance in them, which is very little, then just get to the Baby stuff when they dubbed & aired GT years ago.
I actually find them rather charming, if not always carried through with aplomb. Then again, that sums up a lot of GT for me. I'm trying to avoid using the oft-repeated slogan people use to describe GT's storytelling, but it does seem to hold true.
DB1984 wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 11:28 am I am interested in hearing MistareFusion's thoughts on the last villains in the series, the Shadow Dragons. Does he think of them as a nice little twist? Or as an asspull contradiction of Roshi's fine speech at the very end of the original series on the importance of the Dragon Balls?


I think I'm going to need another rewatch before I remember what my own thoughts of them are!
MisteryOne wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:43 pm I don't know why but that last episode made my laugh a lot, and I really needed it so thank you.
I'm so glad I was able to make you laugh. I actually think the next one is even funnier, so I hope you look forward to that!
MisteryOne wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:43 pm I wish I could contribute something else but...I don't think I can. The way the writers treat Pan has always been a known thing I feel -even trough part of this fandom will obviously go and defend it- and I always thought the same about Rilld's forms, there is no way their names were not swapped.
Yeah, I've gotten a surprising amount of pushback on some of the criticisms I've given on the sexualization of Pan. Not a lot, but more than I would have expected. I'm honestly amazed I haven't noticed any of them on this video yet.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/26/23!)

Post by Scsigs » Mon Jun 26, 2023 11:44 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 9:34 pm
I actually find them rather charming, if not always carried through with aplomb. Then again, that sums up a lot of GT for me. I'm trying to avoid using the oft-repeated slogan people use to describe GT's storytelling, but it does seem to hold true.
GT's storytelling often feels like people who worked on adapting previous material someone else wrote attempting to tell further stories, which is what it is. It's really disappointing because a lot of the ideas present are really good to go off of. There's just a lot of missteps that make them stumble.
Black Star Dragon Balls scattering across the galaxy causing them to go across it to find them? Ok.
Goku becomes a kid again? Why? Pan's a brat who doesn't measure up to how she was presented at the end of the manga's run. Why? The stories are boring & bland? Why?

I don't understand how you can take something like DB & make it bland like GT is a lot of the time. Plus, annoying. I don't know if it's the fact that I watched the English dub, or if that's just how the show's written in any language, but I HATE Pan's endless whining. Doesn't help how her English VA is really annoying to listen to during those scenes as well. Really ruined GT Pan for me. There are other things that happen later on int he show too, but I'll save them for when you get to them in the retrospective. Maybe I'm more basic, but I just have very little patience for stuff I know isn't that well written.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/26/23!)

Post by DB1984 » Tue Jun 27, 2023 10:05 am

Supposedly, Toriyama said he wanted to do a chapter where Goku became a kid again. Don't know where he said that.

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