Here's the topic again that nobody has ever got a clear answer to.
But i like to hear theories, even if this is a completely pointless thread.
We have two statings:
-Goku calling the Super Saiyan a "warrior pure of heart and awakened by fury".
-Krillin stating that a Super Saiyan can't create a Spirit Bomb, or control it's energy because of a "malicious heart".
I'm a kind of an airhead and can't think of any theories myself, or type a longer message, as the topic is as simple as ever.
You be the judge.
Is Super Saiyan pure?
Re: Is Super Saiyan pure?
It's just their point of view (it's not like they have a clue) which is invalidated later on in the series. And by a guidebook. And Cell can create a Genki-Dama.
Last edited by hleV on Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- VegettoEX
- Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
- Posts: 17828
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: Is Super Saiyan pure?
Combine those with Vegeta's "pure evil" statement, and you've got some conundrums to work out, for sure.
I think the best explanation is to take a step back and not overdo it. Perhaps the easiest explanation is the best: whatever it is that triggers the initial transformation, that emotion was "pure". It was that emotion in its most raw form, completely taking over the brain and sending them back into some primal form of the emotion.
For Goku, it was... I dunno, rage (at Freeza and the whole situation)? For Vegeta, it was definitely rage (at himself). For Gohan, it was utter hopelessness. For (future) Trunks, it was a sense of loss.
(For Goten and Trunks... uhh...)
It just happens to be that AFTER the initial transformation, they can... just... do it again... whenever they want... once they control it...?
I think the best explanation is to take a step back and not overdo it. Perhaps the easiest explanation is the best: whatever it is that triggers the initial transformation, that emotion was "pure". It was that emotion in its most raw form, completely taking over the brain and sending them back into some primal form of the emotion.
For Goku, it was... I dunno, rage (at Freeza and the whole situation)? For Vegeta, it was definitely rage (at himself). For Gohan, it was utter hopelessness. For (future) Trunks, it was a sense of loss.
(For Goten and Trunks... uhh...)
It just happens to be that AFTER the initial transformation, they can... just... do it again... whenever they want... once they control it...?
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: April 2026 |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: April 2026 |] ::
- TheGmGoken
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 10592
- Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:19 pm
- Location: Capsule Corps
Re: Is Super Saiyan pure?
I remember someone saying SSJ comes from overcoming your deepest fear or because of fear. His points was kinda good.
Goku - fear of losing his friends and love ones. He used filler to support this. The filler of Goku's having a nightmare that everyone died.
Gohan - Being weak and helpless
Trunks(He used anime version): Fear of more people dying cause of the androids.
Vegeta - Fear of being weaker than a low class and not being able to become a SSJ.
He was a youtube english fan so this impressed me. I would like to add the fact you need to have a calm heart according to Herms(Tranquill). But I'll take this fan's explanation as well.
Goku - fear of losing his friends and love ones. He used filler to support this. The filler of Goku's having a nightmare that everyone died.
Gohan - Being weak and helpless
Trunks(He used anime version): Fear of more people dying cause of the androids.
Vegeta - Fear of being weaker than a low class and not being able to become a SSJ.
He was a youtube english fan so this impressed me. I would like to add the fact you need to have a calm heart according to Herms(Tranquill). But I'll take this fan's explanation as well.
- KentalSSJ6
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 6473
- Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:03 am
- Location: Chicago, Illinois.
Re: Is Super Saiyan pure?
I remember reading Super Saiyan comes from a great need and is often conveyed through emotion.
Goku - The need for the power to kill Freeza and avenge Krillin, achieved through rage and grief.
Vegeta - The need to become stronger and surpass Goku, achieved through self hatred and self disappointment
Gohan - The need to become stronger and be useful against the Androids and Cell, achieved through hopelessness and self disappointment
Future Gohan - The need for power to destroy the Androids, achieved through the rage and loss of losing Gohan.
So for me, SSJ is achieved through a great need conveyed through a certain emotion or series of emotions.
Goku - The need for the power to kill Freeza and avenge Krillin, achieved through rage and grief.
Vegeta - The need to become stronger and surpass Goku, achieved through self hatred and self disappointment
Gohan - The need to become stronger and be useful against the Androids and Cell, achieved through hopelessness and self disappointment
Future Gohan - The need for power to destroy the Androids, achieved through the rage and loss of losing Gohan.
So for me, SSJ is achieved through a great need conveyed through a certain emotion or series of emotions.
Deviantart (NSFW) - http://yamato012.deviantart.com/
DBSW Group Page - http://dbsw.deviantart.com/
Still the 1k Sniper - [spoiler]http://orig10.deviantart.net/6a02/f/201 ... 8npe7r.png[/spoiler]
DBSW Group Page - http://dbsw.deviantart.com/
Still the 1k Sniper - [spoiler]http://orig10.deviantart.net/6a02/f/201 ... 8npe7r.png[/spoiler]
Re: Is Super Saiyan pure?
Goku clearly controls the Genki Dama as a Super Saiyan during the final push against Kid Buu, so that can't be right.
Being "pure" appears to be an idea subject to the individual rather than directing towards a particular definition. Goku's circumstances became an exemplar for Super Saiyan needing a "pure heart" but was contradicted not too long after; Vegeta qualified without one. Goku's conditions also contradict the formerly established prerequisites to becoming one, where characters even state how he wouldn't be able to transform into a Super Saiyan on account of his tranquil heart, that ended up being the very reason he ascends. So the pertaining statements have shown to hold very little merit. What I can gather as some common thread to unlocking the form is that it requires the Saiyan to go against their own nature in a way, and not one that is defined by race but as individuals. Anger is simply the key that places them in that frame of mind.
Leading up to his transformation, Goku's character was resolved to showing compassion and sparing the lives of his enemies. But once becoming a Super Saiyan he now shows the intent to kill, and openly expresses to Freeza that he was going to put him away, ultimately retaining his heart in the end. In Vegeta's case it may have been triggered by him going against his pure Saiyan nature, giving up the will to becoming the dominant warrior in the universe and his love for battle; whereas for Gohan it would be the opposite, in that he'd actually have to embrace it.
Being "pure" appears to be an idea subject to the individual rather than directing towards a particular definition. Goku's circumstances became an exemplar for Super Saiyan needing a "pure heart" but was contradicted not too long after; Vegeta qualified without one. Goku's conditions also contradict the formerly established prerequisites to becoming one, where characters even state how he wouldn't be able to transform into a Super Saiyan on account of his tranquil heart, that ended up being the very reason he ascends. So the pertaining statements have shown to hold very little merit. What I can gather as some common thread to unlocking the form is that it requires the Saiyan to go against their own nature in a way, and not one that is defined by race but as individuals. Anger is simply the key that places them in that frame of mind.
Leading up to his transformation, Goku's character was resolved to showing compassion and sparing the lives of his enemies. But once becoming a Super Saiyan he now shows the intent to kill, and openly expresses to Freeza that he was going to put him away, ultimately retaining his heart in the end. In Vegeta's case it may have been triggered by him going against his pure Saiyan nature, giving up the will to becoming the dominant warrior in the universe and his love for battle; whereas for Gohan it would be the opposite, in that he'd actually have to embrace it.



