"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[IntangibleFancy]

Isn't the DBS manga supposed to have this cool and scary new arc that the SDBH author is going to assist Toyotaro with?

No, that was just a rumor. So far there's nothing confirmed for DBS manga beyond the current arc.

Who started it?

[Shorty GZ2]

Now, I don't know much about Nagayama, but I've heard a lot of good things from the SDBH manga, if you take away the fanservice part, his stories seem pretty decent, and don't rely mostly on nostalgia and recycling other memorable classic DBZ moments.
But anyway, the idea is for Toriyama to co-write something with another author that could lead to a larger story, one that actually delivers something exciting, not just the appearance of a bad guy who does bad things and then dies without leaving any scars on our heroes.

I have some bad news for you regarding the SDBH manga then lol, even though I like it/Nagayama's work and his artstyle/ paneling; then again, it's not like he has a lot of substance in material to work with (Heroes) with regards to putting together a coherent story with mostly consistent characterisation that covers/hits certain plot beats dictated by others (I'd appreciate if anyone could point me to any of Nagayama's pre-Heroes work where he's doing his own thing without following an outline, so I can better/more accurately judge him like Toyo, Lee, & Ooishi)

Isn't the DBS manga supposed to have this cool and scary new arc that the SDBH author is going to assist Toyotaro with?

No, that was just a rumor. So far there's nothing confirmed for DBS manga beyond the current arc.

Who started it?

iirc, probably /dbs/ or 4chan

[Omori]

Isn't the DBS manga supposed to have this cool and scary new arc that the SDBH author is going to assist Toyotaro with?

No, that was just a rumor. So far there's nothing confirmed for DBS manga beyond the current arc.

Who started it?

Last summer some fan used Google Translate to create a fake Toyotaro interview screenshot in Japanese.
Was full of grammar issues, misspellings...

[jjbgood]

Isn't the DBS manga supposed to have this cool and scary new arc that the SDBH author is going to assist Toyotaro with?

No, that was just a rumor. So far there's nothing confirmed for DBS manga beyond the current arc.

Its not even a rumor, it was a fake.

[Dragmobot12]

Isn't the DBS manga supposed to have this cool and scary new arc that the SDBH author is going to assist Toyotaro with?

No, that was just a rumor. So far there's nothing confirmed for DBS manga beyond the current arc.

Its not even a rumor, it was a fake.

In the end, it's just so sad that recent content Dragon Ball has been providing, is a big nothingburger.

[Dragmobot12]

Honestly guys, this whole new arc doesn't smell like Dragon Ball to me at all, it's basically like some fat American dude who is also a discord mod suddenly decided to write the most generic and stupidly banal shonen that could ever exist.

I know we're only in the first chapter, but even so, we've already heard so much from it that you can put the puzzle together yourself and see the result of this slapstick.

Then we'll have an adaptation of Super Hero manga for a whole year, so it's actually like Toyotaro taking a vacation for the whole of 2023 without killing himself over the new story he has to come up with.

[super michael]

Honestly guys, this whole new arc doesn't smell like Dragon Ball to me at all, it's basically like some fat American dude who is also a discord mod suddenly decided to write the most generic and stupidly banal shonen that could ever exist.

I know we're only in the first chapter, but even so, we've already heard so much from it that you can put the puzzle together yourself and see the result of this charade.

Then we'll have an adaptation of Super Hero manga for a whole year, so it's actually like Toyotaro taking a vacation for the whole of 2023 without killing himself over the new story he has to come up with.

That chapter is still way better than Toei constantly forbidding Goten and Trunks from everything, anytime Goten and Trunks wanted to do something, it was always a no. If they wanted to train, fight enemies, help their allies, compete, join tournaments, etc, it was always a huge no. Then to make it worse keeping secrets from them.

Then in DBS Manga to make it worse Bulma prefers for Mr Satan to protect her against powerful alien, than use her smart watch to call Trunks to protect her.

[Xeogran]

That chapter is still way better than Toei constantly forbidding Goten and Trunks from everything, anytime Goten and Trunks wanted to do something, it was always a no. If they wanted to train, fight enemies, help their allies, compete, join tournaments, etc, it was always a huge no. Then to make it worse keeping secrets from them.

Why are you blaming Toei? It was in the outline for Goten and Trunks to not do anything..
They weren't relevant in the manga either for all these years.

[Shorty GZ2]

Honestly guys, this whole new arc doesn't smell like Dragon Ball to me at all, it's basically like some fat American dude who is also a discord mod suddenly decided to write the most generic and stupidly banal shonen that could ever exist.

I know we're only in the first chapter, but-

lol

[OLKv3]

Now, I don't know much about Nagayama, but I've heard a lot of good things from the SDBH manga, if you take away the fanservice part, his stories seem pretty decent, and don't rely mostly on nostalgia and recycling other memorable classic DBZ moments.
But anyway, the idea is for Toriyama to co-write something with another author that could lead to a larger story, one that actually delivers something exciting, not just the appearance of a bad guy who does bad things and then dies without leaving any scars on our heroes.

I have some bad news for you regarding the SDBH manga then lol, even though I like it/Nagayama's work and his artstyle/ paneling; then again, it's not like he has a lot of substance in material to work with (Heroes) with regards to putting together a coherent story with mostly consistent characterisation that covers/hits certain plot beats dictated by others (I'd appreciate if anyone could point me to any of Nagayama's pre-Heroes work where he's doing his own thing without following an outline, so I can better/more accurately judge him like Toyo, Lee, & Ooishi)

No, that was just a rumor. So far there's nothing confirmed for DBS manga beyond the current arc.

Who started it?

iirc, probably /dbs/ or 4chan

Yeah Nagayama "homages" as much as Toyotaro

[Dragmobot12]

Now, I don't know much about Nagayama, but I've heard a lot of good things from the SDBH manga, if you take away the fanservice part, his stories seem pretty decent, and don't rely mostly on nostalgia and recycling other memorable classic DBZ moments.
But anyway, the idea is for Toriyama to co-write something with another author that could lead to a larger story, one that actually delivers something exciting, not just the appearance of a bad guy who does bad things and then dies without leaving any scars on our heroes.

I have some bad news for you regarding the SDBH manga then lol, even though I like it/Nagayama's work and his artstyle/ paneling; then again, it's not like he has a lot of substance in material to work with (Heroes) with regards to putting together a coherent story with mostly consistent characterisation that covers/hits certain plot beats dictated by others (I'd appreciate if anyone could point me to any of Nagayama's pre-Heroes work where he's doing his own thing without following an outline, so I can better/more accurately judge him like Toyo, Lee, & Ooishi)

Who started it?

iirc, probably /dbs/ or 4chan

Yeah Nagayama "homages" as much as Toyotaro

Well, Nagayama wasn't my only cantidate either, but I don't know who Toriyama would have chosen as a co-writer other than Toyotaro or his own son Sasuke.
I'm basing this idea on the Boruto manga, in which, if I recall correctly, the main mangaka Masashi Kishimoto is the writer alongside Ukyo Kodachi, while the main illustrator is still Ikemoto, with no involvement in the writing.

[super michael]

That chapter is still way better than Toei constantly forbidding Goten and Trunks from everything, anytime Goten and Trunks wanted to do something, it was always a no. If they wanted to train, fight enemies, help their allies, compete, join tournaments, etc, it was always a huge no. Then to make it worse keeping secrets from them.

Why are you blaming Toei? It was in the outline for Goten and Trunks to not do anything..
They weren't relevant in the manga either for all these years.

I blame Toei for making them appear to only be told no. If they are not allowed to do anything, then don't have them appear.

When Goten wanted to train with Whis, fans expect him to do so. When Goten sneak away with Goku, fans thought finally he will train. What reaction do you think fans gets when that didn't happen?

Everytine they appear wanting to do something, only for them not to be allowed, that isn't good.


Then to make it worse Toei has Goten and Trunks struggle against a snake in the beginning of DBS and in the end of DBS, they get battle damage against normal humans.

Goku at 90,000 didn't get battle damage from the Ginyu Force.

Goten and Trunks in movie 12 didn't get battle damage against revived humans in weapons.

[Xeogran]

When Goten wanted to train with Whis, fans expect him to do so. When Goten sneak away with Goku, fans thought finally he will train. What reaction do you think fans gets when that didn't happen?

They weren't allowed to have Goten train with Whis because Toriyama didn't plan on this happening. That would make Goten massively stronger than present Trunks, so Toei had to come up with an excuse for that not happening.

[LoganForkHands73]

When Goten wanted to train with Whis, fans expect him to do so. When Goten sneak away with Goku, fans thought finally he will train. What reaction do you think fans gets when that didn't happen?

They weren't allowed to have Goten train with Whis because Toriyama didn't plan on this happening. That would make Goten massively stronger than present Trunks, so Toei had to come up with an excuse for that not happening.

Why contrive a scenario where Goten is set up to train with Whis in the first place, in that case?

That is something that's really hard to defend the anime for, I can see what michael is saying here. The anime regularly invents scenarios outside of Toriyama's rough script that naturally create expectations for viewers, knowing they have no intention of fulfilling them in any satisfactory way. Goku offering to bring Goten to Beerus's planet is a good example. The writers finally remembered that Goten is not studious like Gohan, and some more father-son bonding time is always welcome to see, but if they had no intention of satisfyingly following up on it, it would have been better to not include it at all.

Toyotaro probably wanted to give supporting characters focus and invent similar scenarios, but as a fan himself, he understood that doing so would just give people false expectations and leave them disappointed. For example, giving loads of focus to Majin Buu in the build-up to the tournament arcs while knowing that he would be sidelined for the actual meat of the arcs, like the anime does, would have been a bad idea. Toyotaro sidesteps the whole issue by never giving Buu focus in the first place. For comparison, not only did the anime forge scenes of Buu in the intro for the Universe Survival arc purely to mislead people into thinking he was joining Team U7, they gave him a new buff design to show that he's been training, only to discard it as well. That's not the right way to subvert expectations, lol.

[Koitsukai]

Yeah, Toei did not need to focus so much on their fighting side when they knew they couldn't deliver. A red herring works only if you don't know it's a red herring.

In fact, they could've tried the exact opposite, knowing the kids were off limits and using their EoZ's personalities as basis: have them NOT wanting to have anything to do with training or fights.
Or other interests, hell, even the manga had Trunks playing videogames all night long. They are kids, go crazy with it, treat them like regular kids, we know they'll grow up to be regular teenagers, so why not start paving the way?

[theherodjl]

IMO, Goten & Trunks are really just not interesting enough to want me to see them become substantial fighters in the series. Even back in the Boo arc, I don't think they were ever intended to be the new generation of the Z Senshi, as they were children who just happened to like fighting as a playtime activity and not as a way of life as their fathers had. The plan to have them fight Boo was simply a necessary gamble by Goku as he wasn't aware that Gohan was still alive and that there was way to make him stronger than the boys even with fusion .
Goten & Trunks are ultimately comic fodder, strong comic fodder, but comic fodder nonetheless.

[dragonballhero]

When Goten wanted to train with Whis, fans expect him to do so. When Goten sneak away with Goku, fans thought finally he will train. What reaction do you think fans gets when that didn't happen?

They weren't allowed to have Goten train with Whis because Toriyama didn't plan on this happening. That would make Goten massively stronger than present Trunks, so Toei had to come up with an excuse for that not happening.

Why contrive a scenario where Goten is set up to train with Whis in the first place, in that case?

That is something that's really hard to defend the anime for, I can see what michael is saying here. The anime regularly invents scenarios outside of Toriyama's rough script that naturally create expectations for viewers, knowing they have no intention of fulfilling them in any satisfactory way. Goku offering to bring Goten to Beerus's planet is a good example. The writers finally remembered that Goten is not studious like Gohan, and some more father-son bonding time is always welcome to see, but if they had no intention of satisfyingly following up on it, it would have been better to not include it at all.

Toyotaro probably wanted to give supporting characters focus and invent similar scenarios, but as a fan himself, he understood that doing so would just give people false expectations and leave them disappointed. For example, giving loads of focus to Majin Buu in the build-up to the tournament arcs while knowing that he would be sidelined for the actual meat of the arcs, like the anime does, would have been a bad idea. Toyotaro sidesteps the whole issue by never giving Buu focus in the first place. For comparison, not only did the anime forge scenes of Buu in the intro for the Universe Survival arc purely to mislead people into thinking he was joining Team U7, they gave him a new buff design to show that he's been training, only to discard it as well. That's not the right way to subvert expectations, lol.

Yeah, Toei did not need to focus so much on their fighting side when they knew they couldn't deliver. A red herring works only if you don't know it's a red herring.

In fact, they could've tried the exact opposite, knowing the kids were off limits and using their EoZ's personalities as basis: have them NOT wanting to have anything to do with training or fights.
Or other interests, hell, even the manga had Trunks playing videogames all night long. They are kids, go crazy with it, treat them like regular kids, we know they'll grow up to be regular teenagers, so why not start paving the way?

IMO, Goten & Trunks are really just not interesting enough to want me to see them become substantial fighters in the series. Even back in the Boo arc, I don't think they were ever intended to be the new generation of the Z Senshi, as they were children who just happened to like fighting as a playtime activity and not as a way of life as their fathers had. The plan to have them fight Boo was simply a necessary gamble by Goku as he wasn't aware that Gohan was still alive and that there was way to make him stronger than the boys even with fusion .
Goten & Trunks are ultimately comic fodder, strong comic fodder, but comic fodder nonetheless.

Honestly, this is why I'm in no rush to see anyone take the role of main character(s) from Goku and Vegeta anytime soon.

Say what you will, but it's pretty clear to me that Goten and Trunks clearly aren't THAT into fighting, and that it was just a hobby of theirs. Frankly, I kind of enjoy seeing the two of them more during their downtime, if anything. The same ESPECIALLY goes for Gohan. Heck, I feel like making Gohan the main character would just spit in the face of Dragon Ball's core of training to better yourself. The guy was born with an insane amount of potential and Super Hero sort of reinforced to me that Gohan's more than content with a relaxing life of studying and tending to is family. He's not going to go out seeking trouble like his dad and Vegeta, despite everyone seems to think, both in-universe and out. What's more, having him do so now, especially with his other life obligations, would be so jarring.

Really, if ANYONE absolutely has take the role from them, I'd prefer it to be Pan. She's shown in multiple pieces of DB media that she most certainly has Goku's drive for martial arts, unlike her dad and uncle. That is to say, she's into training WITHOUT having to be informed that some incoming evil is on the way to Earth.

[kemuri07]

I understand why some people here are cool with this last chapter, as it finally takes focus away from Goku and Vegeta. And yeah there is potential in an arc that deals with a different perspective of the DB world.


But.....as I was reading this chapter, all I can think of is: Why? Why is the next exciting arc in the DBS franchise essentially one that is just advertising the recent movie. Because honestly, this feels like something you would put out to hype up the movie before its release, not straight the next arc for DBS.

It just points to a bigger issue with this series--there's no real direction for it. No real plot momentum. That was a big problem I had with the previous arc, where it literally jettisoned a potentially interesting character in favor for fan wanking. And while, yeah, I'm willing to wait and see what this story arc has in store, I can't help but be a bit disappointed.

[Dragmobot12]

I understand why some people here are cool with this last chapter, as it finally takes focus away from Goku and Vegeta. And yeah there is potential in an arc that deals with a different perspective of the DB world.


But.....as I was reading this chapter, all I can think of is: Why? Why is the next exciting arc in the DBS franchise essentially one that is just advertising the recent movie. Because honestly, this feels like something you would put out to hype up the movie before its release, not straight the next arc for DBS.

It just points to a bigger issue with this series--there's no real direction for it. No real plot momentum. That was a big problem I had with the previous arc, where it literally jettisoned a potentially interesting character in favor for fan wanking. And while, yeah, I'm willing to wait and see what this story arc has in store, I can't help but be a bit disappointed.

That's exactly what I've been saying for a while now here. It's been 10 YEARS, 10, since "Battle of the Gods" came out, and it seems like they haven't done sh*t since then. Nothing much has happened when you think about it, only Goku getting new transformations that in the end are absolutely meaningless.

Dragon Ball Super is just a big nothing burger, and that's a fact. Then I see some ignorant folks complaining about why the manga has such a low rating on MangaPlus, lol, I mean, what did you expect?

By the way, is it true that the movie is going to be adapted into a manga? I hope it's a lie, honestly.

[dragonballhero]

I understand why some people here are cool with this last chapter, as it finally takes focus away from Goku and Vegeta. And yeah there is potential in an arc that deals with a different perspective of the DB world.


But.....as I was reading this chapter, all I can think of is: Why? Why is the next exciting arc in the DBS franchise essentially one that is just advertising the recent movie. Because honestly, this feels like something you would put out to hype up the movie before its release, not straight the next arc for DBS.

It just points to a bigger issue with this series--there's no real direction for it. No real plot momentum. That was a big problem I had with the previous arc, where it literally jettisoned a potentially interesting character in favor for fan wanking. And while, yeah, I'm willing to wait and see what this story arc has in store, I can't help but be a bit disappointed.

Not going to lie, the fact that this arc doesn't take place AFTER Super Hero has been leaving a weird taste in my mouth. I mean, I would think the fact that Goten and Trunks are superheroes at all would have been inspired by Gamma 2, who I'm pretty sure these two saw sacrifice himself to stop Cell Max, right?