Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Hugo Boss]

I think, if we are counting on potential, we should definitely include Oob on those lists as well. Not only he has a lot of godly power in reserve, but he is foretold to be a formidable opponent for Goku. So, just in universe #7 we have 8 candidates (Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, Granolah, Freeza, Broly, Oob). From the other universes, I would pick Jiren (universe #11) and Hit (universe #6), as they also have potential for future developments.

[Skar]

10 was just a random number I threw without thinking much of it, but we have a lot of characters within the same "tier."

I think they would all technically be God of Destruction tier and broken down more.

High GoD: Beerus

Middle: Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, Broly, Cell Max, Piccolo, Jiren, Freeza, Granolah, Gas, Moro (not in order)

Low: the other 11 Gods of Destruction

They could be broken down again but it's hard to tell the gap between the characters. I still think Toriyama imagines less of a gap than fans do. If someone watches BoG, they might assume Whis is "several" times stronger than Beerus to be able to knock him out easily but Toriyama only had Whis 50% stronger. He could have a 5-10% difference between each antagonist since Jiren for all we know.

[Miracles]

The entire point of Gohan as a fighter is that his dormant strength surpasses his dad's, and Gohan Beast is the apex of that. He absolutely should be stronger than Goku and Vegeta in any form. A fully-realized Broly could be even stronger still, since Toriyama considers him among the last lines of defense against Perfect Cell Max.

The real mystery here is Black Freeza. We know he's stronger than Goku and Vegeta, but that doesn't necessarily put him at the #1 spot. Then again, he very well might be if he's going to be a main antagonist.

Well Goku and Vegeta hid Broly on Beerus planet from Freeza. Do you feel the reason Broly is hiding is because of Freeza's new number one spot in the universe?

[Koitsukai]

Uub definitely has some crazy potential. To think a 10 year old with no training, unable to fly, can make Goku work so hard to win it's just... Broly, Gohan, well everybody at his age were so much weaker. Even Freeza wasn't as strong as Uub at the same age, perhaps not even when he died on Namek.
Sure, he is just human, so no forms or crazy gains, but even if he were to grow in a similar fashion to Krilin, who went from 10-ish to the low millions and retired in a few years, the potential is incredible... plus that fucking god ki.

With DBS as a midquel, I assume now Uub was as strong as Kid Buu, were he not then I don't think Goku would be that excited about that fight. Back then, assuming Goku in base could fight a SS3-level fighter didn't make much sense, but after DBS it does.

[Mr Baggins]

Well Goku and Vegeta hid Broly on Beerus planet from Freeza. Do you feel the reason Broly is hiding is because of Freeza's new number one spot in the universe?

Interesting question. I'm not sure if that was intended at the time the film was written (unless Toriyama always meant for Freeza to get his recent power-up) but it's an angle I can definitely see the manga taking. Freeza is more likely to get his way if he's able to pose a challenge, which his new form makes possible.

[Hellspawn28]

Would Beast Gohan be strong enough to defeat Moro using Perfected Ultra Instinct state?

[Miracles]

Would Beast Gohan be strong enough to defeat Moro using Perfected Ultra Instinct state?

As the current strongest, Yes. Especially two arcs later, most definitely.

[Berserker1921]

Would Beast Gohan be strong enough to defeat Moro using Perfected Ultra Instinct state?

Well, it’s implied that R&R had information about Goku, vegeta, Buu, piccolo, and maybe Moro. If they have that information, then Cell is def above UI Moro. And if he is above him, then yeah, Gohan slaughters.

[QuakingStar]

This again? Cell Max was complete but his mind CONTROLLING programming was not hence he could not be controlled by them. The Broly they were referring to was the current Broly who had been training and the supplemental material released that last had anything to do with Broly directly insinuated he was stronger than Goku and Vegeta again.

Against Beast Gohan, Cell Max had lost one arm hence his ATTACK power being lowered, his actual power level was not affected. Same way Gohan's attack power was lowered by Cell when he couldn't use his left arm due to it being broken, but Goku KNEW his actual power level was not affected and Gohan was just holding himself back against since he thought he failed since Goku died.

vs Cell Max we see that Beast Gohan absolutely ZERO dif tanked Cell Max's full force punch like nothing happened

This goes to show

Beast Gohan => Black Frieza(Whis insinuated BF was not the one the prophecy referred to and that there may be another who will awaken in the Universe if they didn't already and as it seems rn that has to be referring to GB) >

Cell Max > LSS Broly > UI Goku = UE Vegeta = Orange Piccolo(in power only, the haxes UE and UI have would still get them the W against Orange Piccolo in the end)

Gohan's potential was stated to be higher than Goku's in one supp material, and bottomless in another, Toriyama repeatedly says Gohan has the most potential among other things and on another occasion says Gohan is actually the strongest, he just hasn't trained or something and this is after DBS Broly and during the SH Movie's period so Broly exists when Tori says this. Vegeta and Piccolo IN the manga and movie itself says Gohan has more potential than them all.

So overall it seems Gohan is at the top in terms of potential and hidden power, Broly is number two, and Frieza is number three. Currently in actual power Gohan is also at the top, with Frieza at number two and Broly at number three yet again. Goku and Vegeta will of course surpass them again since they are the MC's but as usual it won't last long and it will continue to go back and forth.

[Yuji]

How would you rank/tier at the moment all the members of the Dragon Team in all of their forms? If we take Goku's forms for example as a "tier", where do the other characters rank? Not just in their strongest, like Beast vs UI/UE, but in their other forms as well, like how does Ultimate Gohan compare versus SSG/SSB/UI?

- Vegeta
- Gohan
- Roshi
- Kuririn
- Yamcha
- Tenshinhan
- Chaozu
- Roshi
- Piccolo
- Android 17
- Android 18
- Freeza
- Majin Boo
- Oob
- Merus
- Jaco
- Broly
- Goten
- Trunks
- Gotenks

[Koitsukai]

How would you rank/tier at the moment all the members of the Dragon Team in all of their forms? If we take Goku's forms for example as a "tier", where do the other characters rank? Not just in their strongest, like Beast vs UI/UE, but in their other forms as well, like how does Ultimate Gohan compare versus SSG/SSB/UI?

- Vegeta
- Gohan
- Roshi
- Kuririn
- Yamcha
- Tenshinhan
- Chaozu
- Roshi
- Piccolo
- Android 17
- Android 18
- Freeza
- Majin Boo
- Oob
- Merus
- Jaco
- Broly
- Goten
- Trunks
- Gotenks

Lowest tier would include these lads:
Krilin
Tenshinhan
Roshi
Yamcha
Jaco
Chaozu

Tier that at some point was enough to be the strongest in the universe:
Base Gohan (I don't think his base got incredibly stronger)
Merus (I guess his mortal "form" would still be somewhat strong, perhaps way stronger than I give him credit for, but definitely above Jaco)
SS Trunks
SS Trunks
Android 18


Tier beyond the strongest in the universe:
Base Broly
SS3 Gotenks
SS2 Gohan
Base Goku (so close to EoZ, and seeing how Uub will challenge his base form, being close to his SS3 self from Z seems possible)
Base Vegeta
Uub
SS Gotenks
Mr. Buu (it's not clear if he retained the power the Dai displayed vs Moro)
Base Piccolo (probably right at the edge of this tier and the previous one)
SS Gohan (not sure who's on top of who compared to Piccolo)

Z Fusion tier:
Freeza(still unclear how his other forms compare after his 10-year training regime)
SS Goku and Vegeta

Beyond Z fusion tier:
Base Broly Unleashed
SS2 Vegeta
SS3 Goku

Beyond beyond Z fusion tier:
17 (with the Gammas being the strongest androids, at best he is on the next tier at the bottom)
SSG
Mr. Buu if he retains the Dai's power


SSB tier:
Golden Freeza (I guess he remains the strongest SSB fighter)
SSB Goku and Vegeta
Ikari Broly
Ultimate Gohan
Ultimate Piccolo

Beyond the Gods:
Black Freeza
Beast Gohan
TUI Goku
UE Vegeta
Orange Piccolo
SS Broly* (his FP might move him up to the 3rd place)

-Special mention for the Hypothetical mastered Silver UI: he might rival Beast Gohan.

[Miracles]

Movie universe:

Gohan Beast tier: The Strongest!; Possibly Broly's Green haired mode is in this tier [range] but would still lose to Gohan Beast.

Super Saiyan Red tier. When Piccolo went Orange he one shotted the Gammas. Who Toriyama said was "on par" with Goku & Vegeta. Piccolo just guessed when he said the Gammas "seem" on par with Goku and Vegeta. Then later Gohan and Piccolo wonder if Goku or Vegeta could even defeat the stronger Cell Max. Gohan Ultimate is in this range too. Was fighting equally with Gamma's still when in this mode.

Super Saiyan mode: Gohan, Piccolo Goku & Vegeta's Super Saiyan mode.

Super Saiyan Blue Tier: Orange Piccolo [Toriyama said he is on par with Goku/Vegeta], Goku, Vegeta, Broly's Ikari [fought evenly with Blue Goku in DBS Broly but slightly weaker].

Manga verse:

Black Freeza tier: The strongest during the Granolah Survivor arc. Strongest entering Dragonball Super: Super Hero prequel. Tier of it's own. One shotted all three of the strongest in the universe at the time. Possibly has Broly in hiding because of his new power.

True UI Goku tier: UE Vegeta [Although Weaker but not by much] and Gas [Cells being used for energy].

UE Vegeta tier: Gas, UI Goku, Granolah

Super Saiyan Blue tier: Goku/Vegeta Blue mode.

Super Saiyan Red tier: Ultimate Gohan [fought Kefla evenly in the TOP, came back stronger than ever in the Galactic Patrol arc]. Still got wrecked by Saganbo who Blue Goku handled quite easily. Piccolo, give him the benefit of the doubt since he was keeping up with Ultimate Gohan against 7-3 in the Galactic Patrol arc. However, never seen Piccolo take on a true god level being in this tier alone. Saganbo wrecked bother

Super Saiyan three tier: Adult Trunks, SSJ2 was equal with Goku in this mode back in the Black arc. SSJ2 Vegeta is actually stronger than SSJ3 mode. As he wrecked Black who wrecked Trunks who was SSJ3 level.

Super Saiyan one/two tier: Everyone else.

That's all I got.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

How would you rank/tier at the moment all the members of the Dragon Team in all of their forms? If we take Goku's forms for example as a "tier", where do the other characters rank? Not just in their strongest, like Beast vs UI/UE, but in their other forms as well, like how does Ultimate Gohan compare versus SSG/SSB/UI?

- Vegeta
- Gohan
- Roshi
- Kuririn
- Yamcha
- Tenshinhan
- Chaozu
- Roshi
- Piccolo
- Android 17
- Android 18
- Freeza
- Majin Boo
- Oob
- Merus
- Jaco
- Broly
- Goten
- Trunks
- Gotenks

I'm not really sure of how strong Base Goku is going to be, so I might be off in the lower tiers.

Gohan Beast ~ Freeza Black?

TUI Goku ~ UE Vegeta ~ Golden Freeza?

UI Goku ~ Oob?
Orange Piccolo

UI Sign Goku
LSSJ Broly

Base Freeza
SSJBE Vegeta
SSJ Broly

Ultimate Gohan
PSSJB Goku ~ PSSJB Vegeta
Ultimate Piccolo
Android 17
Ikari Broly

Majin Boo
SSJG Goku ~ SSJG Vegeta

Broly
Gohan
SSJ3 Goku
SSJ3 Gotenks

SSJ2 Goku

SSJ Goku ~ SSJ Vegeta
Piccolo

SSJ Goten ~ SSJ Trunks

Android 18
Goku ~ Vegeta

Merus? (I think he's lost most of his powers)
Goten ~ Trunks

Kuririn
Tenshinhan
Yamcha
Chaozu
Master Roshi
Jaco

[ZombieVito]

How would you rank/tier at the moment all the members of the Dragon Team in all of their forms? If we take Goku's forms for example as a "tier", where do the other characters rank? Not just in their strongest, like Beast vs UI/UE, but in their other forms as well, like how does Ultimate Gohan compare versus SSG/SSB/UI?

- Vegeta
- Gohan
- Roshi
- Kuririn
- Yamcha
- Tenshinhan
- Chaozu
- Roshi
- Piccolo
- Android 17
- Android 18
- Freeza
- Majin Boo
- Oob
- Merus
- Jaco
- Broly
- Goten
- Trunks
- Gotenks

Beast tier
Beast Gohan
Black Freeza

Ultra Instinct tier
LSS Broly
UI Goku | UE Vegeta
Orange Piccolo

Beyond Super Saiyan Blue tier
UIO Goku
SS Broly
SSBKK20 Goku | SSBE Vegeta

Super Saiyan Blue tier
Ultimate Gohan
Golden Freeza
SSB Goku | SSB Vegeta
Ultimate Piccolo
Ikari Broly
17

Super Saiyan God tier
Boo
Broly
SSG Goku | SSG Vegeta

Super Saiyan 3 tier
Meerus
SS3 Goku

Super Saiyan 2
SS2 Gohan
SS2 Goku | SS2 Vegeta

Super Saiyan tier
Freeza
SS Gohan
SS Goku | SS Vegeta
Piccolo

Base tier
18
Gohan
Goku | Vegeta
SS3 Gotenks
Oob

Below base tier
SS2 Gotenks
SS Gotenks
SS Trunks
SS Goten
Gotenks
Krillin
Roshi
Tenshinhan
Trunks
Goten
Yamcha
Chaoz
Jaco

[Almighty Majin]

How would you rank/tier at the moment all the members of the Dragon Team in all of their forms? If we take Goku's forms for example as a "tier", where do the other characters rank? Not just in their strongest, like Beast vs UI/UE, but in their other forms as well, like how does Ultimate Gohan compare versus SSG/SSB/UI?

- Vegeta
- Gohan
- Roshi
- Kuririn
- Yamcha
- Tenshinhan
- Chaozu
- Roshi
- Piccolo
- Android 17
- Android 18
- Freeza
- Majin Boo
- Oob
- Merus
- Jaco
- Broly
- Goten
- Trunks
- Gotenks

Movie Continuity:

Spoiler:

Beyond UI:
Gohan Beast
SSJ Full Power Broly

UI:
UI Goku
Orange Piccolo

Beyond SSJB:
SSJ Broly
UI - Sign Goku

SSJB:
Golden Freeza
Ultimate Gohan
SSJB Goku | SSJB Vegeta | Wrathful Broly
Ultimate Piccolo
Android 17

Beyond SSJ:
SSJG Goku | SSJG Vegeta
Broly
SSJ3 Gotenks

SSJ:
Freeza
SSJ Goku | SSJ Vegeta | SSJ Gohan
SSJ Gotenks

Base:
Majin Buu
Piccolo
Android 18
Uub
Goku | Vegeta | Gohan
Gotenks
SSJ Goten | SSJ Trunks
Krillin

Below Base:
Tien
Yamcha
Master Roshi
Chiaotzu
Goten | Trunks
Jaco

Anime Continuity:

Spoiler:

Beyond UI:
Gohan Beast
SSJ Full Power Broly

UI:
UI Goku
Orange Piccolo

Beyond SSJB:
SSJ Broly
UI - Sign Goku
Ultimate Gohan | Golden Freeza
SSJB Kaioken Goku | SSJB Evolution Vegeta | Wrathful Broly
Ultimate Piccolo

SSJB:
SSJB Goku | SSJB Vegeta
Android 17

Beyond SSJ:
SSJG Goku | SSJG Vegeta
Broly
SSJ3 Gotenks

SSJ:
Freeza
SSJ Goku | SSJ Vegeta | SSJ Gohan
SSJ Gotenks

Base:
Majin Buu
Piccolo
Android 18
Uub
Goku | Vegeta | Gohan
Gotenks
SSJ Goten | SSJ Trunks
Krillin

Below Base:
Tien
Yamcha
Master Roshi
Chiaotzu
Goten | Trunks
Jaco

Manga Continuity:

Spoiler:

Beyond UI:
Gohan Beast | Black Freeza

UI:
UI Goku | UE Vegeta | Orange Piccolo
SSJ Full Power Broly

Beyond SSJB:
SSJ Broly
Ultimate Gohan
UI - Sign Goku | SSJB Evolution Vegeta
Ultimate Piccolo

SSJB:
Golden Freeza
SSJB Goku | SSJB Vegeta | Wrathful Broly
Majin Buu
Piccolo
Android 17
Android 18

Beyond SSJ:
SSJG Goku | SSJG Vegeta
Broly
SSJ3 Gotenks

SSJ:
Freeza
SSJ Goku | SSJ Vegeta | SSJ Gohan
SSJ Gotenks

Base:
Uub
Goku | Vegeta | Gohan
Gotenks
SSJ Goten | SSJ Trunks
Krillin
Tien
Yamcha

Below Base:
Master Roshi
Chiaotzu
Goten | Trunks
Jaco

[Skar]

I had a random thought based on the God of Destruction battle royale. I'm wondering what would happen if all the mortals Jiren level and above ganged up on Beerus? Jiren, Broly, UI Goku, UE Vegeta, FP Moro, Granolah, Gas, Black Freeza, Cell Max, Orange Piccolo, and Beast Gohan (pretend they would all cooperate).

Could they defeat Beerus or would he still win? Beerus was pretty beat up by the end of the GoD battle royale. The others ganged up on him initially but then starting attacking each other so it became a regular free for all. Assuming these guys are all stronger than the other GoDs aside from Beerus, I think he would have more difficulty fighting against them at once.

[Xeogran]

I had a random thought based on the God of Destruction battle royale. I'm wondering what would happen if all the mortals Jiren level and above ganged up on Beerus? Jiren, Broly, UI Goku, UE Vegeta, FP Moro, Granolah, Gas, Black Freeza, Cell Max, Orange Piccolo, and Beast Gohan (pretend they would all cooperate).

Could they defeat Beerus or would he still win? Beerus was pretty beat up by the end of the GoD battle royale.

Pls, with this team up I'm sure they could take on Beerus and Champa at once.

Broly alone was stated to be above him by Goku who wouldn't underestimate the strongest GoD.
Granolah and Gas were temporarily above Broly and then Black Frieza is even above these two.

[Goku9001]

I had a random thought based on the God of Destruction battle royale. I'm wondering what would happen if all the mortals Jiren level and above ganged up on Beerus? Jiren, Broly, UI Goku, UE Vegeta, FP Moro, Granolah, Gas, Black Freeza, Cell Max, Orange Piccolo, and Beast Gohan (pretend they would all cooperate).

Could they defeat Beerus or would he still win? Beerus was pretty beat up by the end of the GoD battle royale.

Pls, with this team up I'm sure they could take on Beerus and Champa at once.

Broly alone was stated to be above him by Goku who wouldn't underestimate the strongest GoD.
Granolah and Gas were temporarily above Broly and then Black Frieza is even above these two.

I'm not sure about that. Goku's reaction to Beerus decimating Vegeta at the beginning of the Granolah arc clearly suggests that he didn't understand the depths of Beerus' power. After all, it's Beerus who says his power is boundless.

[Skar]

I'm not sure about that. Goku's reaction to Beerus decimating Vegeta at the beginning of the Granolah arc clearly suggests that he didn't understand the depths of Beerus' power. After all, it's Beerus who says his power is boundless.

I think that's just standard boasting. Beerus' power can't really be boundless if the Angels and above are confirmed to be stronger than him. Beerus had to exert more effort against the other GoDs so that should've already given Goku an idea of his power compared to holding back against Vegeta in the Granolah arc.

[Goku9001]

I'm not sure about that. Goku's reaction to Beerus decimating Vegeta at the beginning of the Granolah arc clearly suggests that he didn't understand the depths of Beerus' power. After all, it's Beerus who says his power is boundless.

I think that's just standard boasting. Beerus' power can't really be boundless if the Angels and above are confirmed to be stronger than him. Beerus had to exert more effort against the other GoDs so that should've already given Goku an idea of his power compared to holding back against Vegeta in the Granolah arc.

It is but it introduces a new level that Goku and Vegeta were completely unaware of.

Vegeta already surpassed Jiren by a wide margin so for Beerus to defeat him as quickly as he did implies that his performance against the Hakaishins aren't reflective of his current strength. Regardless, Goku's reaction clearly shows he didn't expect Beerus to be capable of doing what he did against Vegeta. No way around it.