Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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ZombieVito
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:10 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:But Blue is SS + god ki. Maybe SS2 is just too much to handle, I don't know.

The way I see it is that since Black is a natural god then his base form is a Saiyan beyond God, exactly as powerful as a SSG and once he turns Super Saiyan then he turns Rose. That's why him having regular Super Saiyan is not right.

The manga just fucked up yet again.
Blue being SS + God Ki IS the problem, it doesn't make any sense for either Black or Goku since that should mean they'd have God Ki version of 2 and 3. The sole good thing the retcon thing has done is stop treating Blue like a hybrid form and making it an upgraded SSGod instead. But that's like slapping a moron across the face for not shitting himself instead of kicking them down a flight of stairs as far as congratulations go.
Well I don't really see the issue. Blue is a SSG turning Super Saiyan.

The anime avoided the issue with Black by having him skip Super Saiyan. Now that I think about it even his aura in base had god ki.

Toyo didnt pay attention and made Black over 400 times stronger.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:13 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:But Blue is SS + god ki. Maybe SS2 is just too much to handle, I don't know.

The way I see it is that since Black is a natural god then his base form is a Saiyan beyond God, exactly as powerful as a SSG and once he turns Super Saiyan then he turns Rose. That's why him having regular Super Saiyan is not right.

The manga just fucked up yet again.
Blue being SS + God Ki IS the problem, it doesn't make any sense for either Black or Goku since that should mean they'd have God Ki version of 2 and 3. The sole good thing the retcon thing has done is stop treating Blue like a hybrid form and making it an upgraded SSGod instead. But that's like slapping a moron across the face for not shitting himself instead of kicking them down a flight of stairs as far as congratulations go.
Well I don't really see the issue. Blue is a SSG turning Super Saiyan.

The anime avoided the issue with Black by having him skip Super Saiyan. Now that I think about it even his aura in base had god ki.

Toyo didnt pay attention and made Black over 400 times stronger.
The anime doesn't avoid the manga's problem though: if Rose is just his SS1 with a different color, where's the other readily available transformations from Goku in a Rose state too? The manga just makes it even more obvious by showing it directly instead of how the anime tries to skirt around the problem. If Black made any sense at all, he'd just have a Base form on par with Goku & Vegeta then use the various SS forms to match/beat them as necessary.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Omniboy » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:18 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:But Blue is SS + god ki. Maybe SS2 is just too much to handle, I don't know.

The way I see it is that since Black is a natural god then his base form is a Saiyan beyond God, exactly as powerful as a SSG and once he turns Super Saiyan then he turns Rose. That's why him having regular Super Saiyan is not right.

The manga just fucked up yet again.
Blue being SS + God Ki IS the problem, it doesn't make any sense for either Black or Goku since that should mean they'd have God Ki version of 2 and 3. The sole good thing the retcon thing has done is stop treating Blue like a hybrid form and making it an upgraded SSGod instead. But that's like slapping a moron across the face for not shitting himself instead of kicking them down a flight of stairs as far as congratulations go.

I don't see that much of a problem with that seeing as to how both the anime and manga have it so that transforming and remaining in SSB for a long period of time can cause a lost of stamina, and we can assume that going beyond SSB, with the exception of Kaioken , can prehaps be even more stressful on them (although the use of "it's loses a lot of stamina" or " It causes a lot of stress on my body" is becoming a bit overused at this point)

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:23 pm

Omniboy wrote:I don't see that much of a problem with that seeing as to how both the anime and manga have it so that transforming and remaining in SSB for a long period of time can cause a lost of stamina, and we can assume that going beyond SSB, with the exception of Kaioken , can prehaps be even more stressful on them (although the use of "it's loses a lot of stamina" or " It causes a lot of stress on my body" is becoming a bit overused at this point)
Ah yes, perfect ki control the form apparently cripples you harder than SS3 ever did :P

I mean, the manga makes this a feature so okay, maybe stacking God Ki with SS2 is too much. The anime, however, breaks this entire idea by having Goku & Vegeta transform constantly into Blue and stay in it for big, long, seemingly costly battles while also getting exhausted in-between all of them. I'm pretty sure Goku uses KK Blue about 2-3 times despite apparently burning himself out of ki.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Omniboy » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:29 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
Omniboy wrote:I don't see that much of a problem with that seeing as to how both the anime and manga have it so that transforming and remaining in SSB for a long period of time can cause a lost of stamina, and we can assume that going beyond SSB, with the exception of Kaioken , can prehaps be even more stressful on them (although the use of "it's loses a lot of stamina" or " It causes a lot of stress on my body" is becoming a bit overused at this point)
Ah yes, perfect ki control the form apparently cripples you harder than SS3 ever did :P

I mean, the manga makes this a feature so okay, maybe stacking God Ki with SS2 is too much. The anime, however, breaks this entire idea by having Goku & Vegeta transform constantly into Blue and stay in it for big, long, seemingly costly battles while also getting exhausted in-between all of them. I'm pretty sure Goku uses KK Blue about 2-3 times despite apparently burning himself out of ki.

Honestly, I forgot about the perfect ki control. That was in the anime right, or was that in both versions? The anime also does spam SSB a bit too much for me, the worst offender being Vegeta transforming into it again after he used final explosion.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:33 pm

Omniboy wrote:Honestly, I forgot about the perfect ki control. That was in the anime right, or was that in both versions? The anime also does spam SSB and the kaioken version of it a lot.
That's an anime thing yeah. Which is fine, but then they also keep in the line about it being stamina consuming in the exact same arc Goku uses it at every available opportunity, along with stacking KK on top of it when he's supposedly tired as all hell.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by BlueBasilisk » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:49 pm

So, uh, it judging by that new trailer it looks like Broly is giving SSB Goku a hard time even before he goes MAXIMUM POWER. :shock:

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:39 pm

He apparently has 4 states: Base, a stronger Base?, Regular SSJ, and LSSJ

In what looks like his spiky haired Base state he is fighting SSB Goku. He's gonna be insanely strong

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:23 pm

Base boosted Broly also trades blows with Super Saiyan Goku, so I'm not sure how powerful that form is.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:30 pm

ekrolo2 wrote: The anime doesn't avoid the manga's problem though: if Rose is just his SS1 with a different color, where's the other readily available transformations from Goku in a Rose state too? The manga just makes it even more obvious by showing it directly instead of how the anime tries to skirt around the problem. If Black made any sense at all, he'd just have a Base form on par with Goku & Vegeta then use the various SS forms to match/beat them as necessary.
It is avoided if you have base Black as a Saiyan beyond God since he's actually a deity.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:35 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote: The anime doesn't avoid the manga's problem though: if Rose is just his SS1 with a different color, where's the other readily available transformations from Goku in a Rose state too? The manga just makes it even more obvious by showing it directly instead of how the anime tries to skirt around the problem. If Black made any sense at all, he'd just have a Base form on par with Goku & Vegeta then use the various SS forms to match/beat them as necessary.
It is avoided if you have base Black as a Saiyan beyond God since he's actually a deity.
Super Saiyan Black is canon. He was in the toriyama design.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:08 pm

Bergamo wrote: Super Saiyan Black is canon. He was in the toriyama design.
The anime is the main product so Super Saiyan Black is not canon.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:11 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Bergamo wrote: Super Saiyan Black is canon. He was in the toriyama design.
The anime is the main product so Super Saiyan Black is not canon.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by BlueBasilisk » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:21 pm

Good lord, this anime vs manga stuff is never going to stop. :roll:

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:24 pm

BlueBasilisk wrote:Good lord, this anime vs manga stuff is never going to stop. :roll:
I'm not saying the anime is non-canon, but according to this poster, it's either just the manga or both. There is no "main product," they are both of equal status.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by BlueBasilisk » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:26 pm

Bergamo wrote:
BlueBasilisk wrote:Good lord, this anime vs manga stuff is never going to stop. :roll:
I'm not saying the anime is non-canon, but according to this poster, it's either just the manga or both. There is no "main product," they are both of equal status.
I don't know why people think they aren't when Toriyama works on and provides feedback for both. He even said they'd continue to be different.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:31 pm

BlueBasilisk wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
BlueBasilisk wrote:Good lord, this anime vs manga stuff is never going to stop. :roll:
I'm not saying the anime is non-canon, but according to this poster, it's either just the manga or both. There is no "main product," they are both of equal status.
I don't know why people think they aren't when Toriyama works on and provides feedback for both. He even said they'd continue to be different.
People just like to engage in blind hatred, and if you try to show them that the manga isn't as bad as they think, then they say, "It's not canon!"
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by BlueBasilisk » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:44 pm

Bergamo wrote:
BlueBasilisk wrote:
Bergamo wrote: I'm not saying the anime is non-canon, but according to this poster, it's either just the manga or both. There is no "main product," they are both of equal status.
I don't know why people think they aren't when Toriyama works on and provides feedback for both. He even said they'd continue to be different.
People just like to engage in blind hatred, and if you try to show them that the manga isn't as bad as they think, then they say, "It's not canon!"
I came into Super from /a/ and there it's the opposite. They refuse to hear a bad word against Toyotaro and Toei can't do anything right. Why does the fandom have to be like this? I don't care for Toyotaro's writing but I won't crap on people who do. You'd think having two adaptations would have something for everyone but instead it just leads to more tribalistic shit-flinging. After 3 years it makes me feel sour toward the franchise as a whole.

Getting back to the subject of the thread, I'm really curious about that black-haired, yellow-eyed form. I'm guessing it's similar to the purple/teal-haired Broly from movie 8 but it seems WAY more powerful comparatively. That Broly got his mouth bloodied by base Goku.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:48 pm

Bergamo wrote:
BlueBasilisk wrote:Good lord, this anime vs manga stuff is never going to stop. :roll:
I'm not saying the anime is non-canon, but according to this poster, it's either just the manga or both. There is no "main product," they are both of equal status.
The anime is the main product, this has been said since forever.

Manga is only for advertisement. It's not canon.
Last edited by ZombieVito on Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:49 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
BlueBasilisk wrote:Good lord, this anime vs manga stuff is never going to stop. :roll:
I'm not saying the anime is non-canon, but according to this poster, it's either just the manga or both. There is no "main product," they are both of equal status.
The anime is the main product, this has been said since forever.

Manga is not canon.
[spoiler]Image
Image
Image
Image
Image[/spoiler]
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