Non-thread-worthy discussions

[WittyUsername]

This is something that’s recently occurred to me thanks to Twitter, but there is a crazy amount of content in the Dragon Ball franchise that could easily be classified as vore. I didn’t want to make a separate thread on this, because it’s a pretty weird topic, but by God, there are a lot of Dragon Ball villains who gain power by essentially eating people. That’s not even getting into that time Piccolo essentially ate Kami, or when Boo killed that guy by going down his throat.

Is there something you want to tell us, Toriyama?

[FreezingTrackball]

I was watching DBZ with some friends this past week, and thought of something:

Seeing how people that watch this series take note of the height inconsistencies, especially Piccolo, I saw this scene and wondered how accurately this portrays his listed height of 7'5" (226 cm). What do you think?

[QuakingStar]

There has always been height inconsistencies in the artstyle and animations. But yeah that one pic is pretty close to what it's supposed to be. IN DBS: SH Piccolo and Gohans heights are accurate almost the whole time.

[Civic]

What strength does SSJ Full Power have in comparison to the other forms introduced in the Cell saga? I know it's the most energy efficient form, but is it as strong as SSJ 2nd Grade (ie. Super Vegeta), or is it more along the lines of regular SSJ strength but with the benefit of virtually no stamina drain? I'm guessing it's not as strong as SSJ 3rd Grade (Super Trunks) since Goku implicitly says the power is great but the speed is not.

[ZeroNeonix]

What strength does SSJ Full Power have in comparison to the other forms introduced in the Cell saga? I know it's the most energy efficient form, but is it as strong as SSJ 2nd Grade (ie. Super Vegeta), or is it more along the lines of regular SSJ strength but with the benefit of virtually no stamina drain? I'm guessing it's not as strong as SSJ 3rd Grade (Super Trunks) since Goku implicitly says the power is great but the speed is not.

If you're talking about what Goku and Gohan were doing after coming out of the time chamber, all they tell us is that they're learning to live every day life as Super Saiyans. They basically treat it as their new base forms. I don't think it's any stronger than normal Super Saiyan forms, but because they're able to maintain the form without effort, that makes the stamina drain virtually zero. It opened the door to them finding the true path to Super Saiyan 2, increasing their power without the drawbacks of the beefed up forms Vegeta and Trunks took.

[Rafa Fast]

I've made a thread days ago (that nobody cared about but whatever it was fun to make lol) where I talked about how the series throughout the years has been making evolving from a theme to another, and this made me seriously think about the way they are trying to reach now

Dragon Ball 84/86 pretty much formed a trilogy where in the first chapter you had Goku discovering the world for the first time and fighting his first adversaries, in the second chapter he fights his first true dangerous foe, the Red Ribbon, and in the third chapter, he needs to save the whole planet against Piccolo Daimao, finishing the Earth trilogy.

Then in Z, the Earth is left aside, with Saiyans and Freeza, we have the Outer Space adventures, with villains from another planet, space travel and all, Turles, Slug. Then after it, the Earth is the main setting again, but there's no more exploration anymore because OG DB is dead, this time it's the time for Revenge! Garlic Jr. Wants revenge, Mecha Freeza wants Revenge, Cooler, The Androids 13-20, Cell (after cheating death and returning to kill everyone) and Bojack (technically), then after this, it's the Universe exploration, with the Other Wourld Tournament and the Boo Saga, where in the climax the whole Universe needs to be saved.

Just look at this progress!
After Boo's death then we have a bridge with Wrath of The Dragon, Yo Son Goku & Friends Return and the peaceful days prior to the time skip.

Then Super Starts, with the actually officially named "Gods of The Universe Saga", Battle of Gods and Fukkatsu no F have the purpose of introducing us the god ki and divine power scaling, and of course, Hakaishins & Angels, looks like something beyond the Universe exploration from the Boo arc!
And after it, Super indeed goes beyond! With no more "The Universe" but "The Multiverse" Saga! Champa, Black and ToP all are sagas focused in Multiverse, and there's a growth, it starts slow with Champa, as it's a tournament only to make a silly wish (not so silly actually but u now what I mean), then we have Black, the first threat from a different Universe, and then the ToP, where almost the entire Multiverse is threatened from being erased!
That's a true evolution and good way to finish a part of the series (no wonder why the animated series ended in the ToP)

But then, when the Broly movie came out, everything just got weird. What happened to the Multiverse?
With Broly, we have Paragus and Freeza, who want revenge and both are from space
Moro is mostly a Universe saga
Granolla as well, sorta at least
One way I found to connect these 2 sagas and movie was making them into a "Strongests of the Universe" saga, as in all of them, you have Goku and Vegeta fighting the strongest foes of Universe 7 since Majin Boo, you have Broly and his absurd power, Moro copying Ultra Instinct, Granolla and Gas wishing to be the strongest, this is Universe 7 at its limit.
But this doesn't look like a evolution from the Multiverse Saga, actually the Multiverse concept is totally left aside here

And things just get even weirder with what comes after it, The Super Hero saga and Movie
A Saga completely focused on Earth and Earthling villains, and the Movie has the same concept, no aliens, no outer space, no universe, no multiverse, 100% earth.
What the hell happened here? It's not that I dislike it, but they are going backwards! I calling this Neo Earth Saga but they don't look interested in exploring Earth again as DB 84/86 did
This seriously makes me wonder, what's coming next? Black Freeza is out there, there's still the mystery about if 17's wish made the previously erased universes be restored, and now you have everyone with a new good tier transformation.
If they really plan on still keeping Earth as the main setting then I wonder how are they going to deal with all this new stuff
Fukkatsu no F 2 XD?

[ZeroNeonix]

They don't have a plan. They're making it up as they go, doing whatever Toriyama wants to do at the time and/or whatever they think would be popular. Broly was the latter. There's not a consistent theme, and they often set up interesting sounding ideas that just don't get explored.

Vegeta: "I'm going to give Universe 6's Sadala a visit."

Years later (both IRL and in the narrative), he still hasn't gone.

[Rafa Fast]

That seemingly started with Broly, I disagree about "no consistent theme", DB 84/86 was entirely focused on Earth, then Saiyans and Freeza was Outter Space stuff. Cell? Yeah I've played around honestly. Boo is Universe, Battle of Gods and Fukkatsu no F is Gods of the Universe, and then Champa, Black and ToP are Multiverse stuff, and all in order, I don't have to make any efforts to see a consistence here.
They "ran out of ideas" starting with Broly, there is God Ki transformations there, but the God ki isn't the main focus in that movie. Then the Ultra Instinct stuff returned again in Moro and Granolla, Vegeta got Ultra Ego. And now the last two entries are Earth focused
I personally think what's coming next is a new Tournament, it has already been 3 arcs, 2 movies, pretty much 5 stories came out since the ToP ended
Not saying that it's the time for a new Tournament tho, just saying that it's likely what's going to happen.
Maybe EoZ is indeed going to be completely rewritten, and something might happen in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai that leads up to a bigger saga, as it was in the Boo arc. But this would mean the series would still be Earth centered, except if they also plan to make characters go to space.
I think they are already writing what's going to happen after Super Hero (Part 2) ^^

[Peril]

How many dragon ball movies have been tournament focused?

My random question. Would it be possible for a fighter to fight with their voice? Like a bard or something? I've always thought that ki and magic are "different" in this universe so I'm asking if a ki user could fight with songs. If its not a massive stretch that ki could do something like that.

[ZeroNeonix]

How many dragon ball movies have been tournament focused?

My random question. Would it be possible for a fighter to fight with their voice? Like a bard or something? I've always thought that ki and magic are "different" in this universe so I'm asking if a ki user could fight with songs. If its not a massive stretch that ki could do something like that.

Ki and magic are absolutely different. Babidi was a weak fighter (low ki), but had powerful magic. Similarly, the Omni-King has pretty much limitless power, but he's not a fighter, and he struggles to follow what's going on during particularly intense battles.

Buu and Gotenks/Piccolo were able to punch holes through space/time with their voices. So it could be argued there is at least some precedent with sound-based power. Babidi's spells also had vocal components. I'm also unsure if speaking the name of a ki blast is important, or if that's just an anime thing. If Goku doesn't say "Kamehameha," is it just as strong? Don't know.

[Desassina]

How many dragon ball movies have been tournament focused?

A movie where a tournament is mostly present is Dragon Ball Mystical Adventure while Dragon Ball Z Bojack Unbound was the entire tournament. You could say that Fusion Reborn has Goku fighting in one too but it's very minor.

[Peril]

How many dragon ball movies have been tournament focused?

A movie where a tournament is mostly present is Dragon Ball Mystical Adventure while Dragon Ball Z Bojack Unbound was the entire tournament. You could say that Fusion Reborn has Goku fighting in one too but it's very minor.

Interesting. Only three? I knew about those but I thought there were more lol
I never know how I feel about tournament arcs. I think they can be boring if the characters participating don't interest me, or don't have anything to prove and are fighting just for the sake of it. But a b-plot running along side will hook me pretty quickly.

[ABED]

How many dragon ball movies have been tournament focused?

A movie where a tournament is mostly present is Dragon Ball Mystical Adventure while Dragon Ball Z Bojack Unbound was the entire tournament. You could say that Fusion Reborn has Goku fighting in one too but it's very minor.

Interesting. Only three? I knew about those but I thought there were more lol
I never know how I feel about tournament arcs. I think they can be boring if the characters participating don't interest me, or don't have anything to prove and are fighting just for the sake of it. But a b-plot running along side will hook me pretty quickly.

Not sure what you mean by "fighting for the sake of it". That's the series in a nutshell. They're fighters. That's what they do. They let enemies get stronger or let them go in order to fight again.

[Peril]

A movie where a tournament is mostly present is Dragon Ball Mystical Adventure while Dragon Ball Z Bojack Unbound was the entire tournament. You could say that Fusion Reborn has Goku fighting in one too but it's very minor.

Interesting. Only three? I knew about those but I thought there were more lol
I never know how I feel about tournament arcs. I think they can be boring if the characters participating don't interest me, or don't have anything to prove and are fighting just for the sake of it. But a b-plot running along side will hook me pretty quickly.

Not sure what you mean by "fighting for the sake of it". That's the series in a nutshell. They're fighters. That's what they do. They let enemies get stronger or let them go in order to fight again.

That's not the series in a nutshell. Never has been. There is at least some loose thread of a plot reason for a fight to take place with a consequence for losing.

[ABED]

That's not the series in a nutshell. Never has been. There is at least some loose thread of a plot reason for a fight to take place with a consequence for losing.

VERY loose plot reason. It's not a plot heavy show. The cyborgs arrive because Goku wants to fight them. If we don't take into account the retcon, Goku and Vegeta have a pissing contest which releases Buu. They crush the earrings which would've guaranteed victory because they wanted to fight one on one. They fought in tournaments because they wanted to test themselves. Goku is more concerned with winning the title than the fate of the world when fighting Piccolo.

[ZeroNeonix]

That's not the series in a nutshell. Never has been. There is at least some loose thread of a plot reason for a fight to take place with a consequence for losing.

VERY loose plot reason. It's not a plot heavy show. The cyborgs arrive because Goku wants to fight them. If we don't take into account the retcon, Goku and Vegeta have a pissing contest which releases Buu. They crush the earrings which would've guaranteed victory because they wanted to fight one on one. They fought in tournaments because they wanted to test themselves. Goku is more concerned with winning the title than the fate of the world when fighting Piccolo.

That's more about motivation than plot. The Saiyans not taking things seriously enough is played off as a joke, but there's usually a reason for the fighting. In early Dragon Ball, it was just a reinterpretation of A Journey to the West, with a quest for the Dragon Balls. Then there was the Red Ribbon Army trying to take over the world, then King Piccolo. Then the show turned into Superman II for a bit. A bunch of people die, but there are no Dragon Balls, so they go to Namek to try to bring them back, and things get a bit more complicated than usual with one problem after another. Then we get Terminator, with the man from the future trying to save the world from evil androids.

If memory serves me right, there were only two low stakes tournaments before Super, one universal tournament in Super, and then the Tournament of Power, when it turned out the threat of total annihilation for the losing universes was kind of a bluff. Pretty much every other battle was to the death with a villain.

[MasenkoHA]

Interesting. Only three? I knew about those but I thought there were more lol
I never know how I feel about tournament arcs. I think they can be boring if the characters participating don't interest me, or don't have anything to prove and are fighting just for the sake of it. But a b-plot running along side will hook me pretty quickly.

Not sure what you mean by "fighting for the sake of it". That's the series in a nutshell. They're fighters. That's what they do. They let enemies get stronger or let them go in order to fight again.

That's not the series in a nutshell. Never has been. There is at least some loose thread of a plot reason for a fight to take place with a consequence for losing.

It's series where the main character leaves his home in the mountains to train and become stronger and wants to keep fighting stronger opponents. Even when the series evolves into "save the world" we get

Goku sparing Piccolo Jr and then Vegeta because he want a rematch

Goku allowing Freeza to fully power up because he wants to test his own strength and see how strong he really is as a Super Saiyan

Reasons with Bulma they shouldn't stop Gero befor he can build the Androids because "he hadn't done anything wrong yet" which is of course bullshit and he really wants to test himself as a fighter, as do the other Z warriors

The Z warriors agreeing to Cell's ego tournament instead of banding together to stop him and then Goku assessing Cell's abilities in a one on one and going "Yo, my son can kick you ass"


Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan playing rock paper scissors to see who gets to go up against Boboddi's henchmen instead of working together

Goku enjoying his fight with Boo so much he wishes he could be reborn as a good person for a rematch and then after getting that wish flies of with his reincarnation to train him with plans to have a really good match.


So uh I'm gonna have to side with Abed, the series is "fighting for the sake of fighting."

[MasenkoHA]

That's more about motivation than plot. The Saiyans not taking things seriously enough is played off as a joke, but there's usually a reason for the fighting. In early Dragon Ball, it was just a reinterpretation of A Journey to the West, with a quest for the Dragon Balls. Then there was the Red Ribbon Army trying to take over the world, then King Piccolo. Then the show turned into Superman II for a bit. A bunch of people die, but there are no Dragon Balls, so they go to Namek to try to bring them back, and things get a bit more complicated than usual with one problem after another. Then we get Terminator, with the man from the future trying to save the world from evil androids.

The Terminator plot that still ends up at a martial arts tournament where the "heroes" agree to the bad guy's rules

Goku made no effort to stop the Red Ribbon army until he needed their dragon balls to bring Bora back.

If memory serves me right, there were only two low stakes tournaments before Super, one universal tournament in Super, and then the Tournament of Power, when it turned out the threat of total annihilation for the losing universes was kind of a bluff. Pretty much every other battle was to the death with a villain.

Keep in mind, even if the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai ended up being "a battle for the earth" Goku still refused any outside help and fought by the rules. To borderline neurodivergent levels. There's no reason for Goku to do this. He just wants to prove to himself he's "Tenkaichi" the fate of the world is pretty fucking incidental to him.

[Peril]

I never said the reasons needed to be deep but there are reasons. I'm not looking at things from Goku's perspective which has always been "can I fight it? If yes, proceed". Things happen and it just so happens everything can be resolved with combat (and wishes)

Though I wonder if it has more depth than pokemon. Which is characters traveling with the express purpose of having finding and having fights.

[ABED]

While the Piccolo Daimao arc has greater stakes, Goku's motivation is revenge, not saving the world. While I like superhero stories, end of the world stakes can begin to feel boring after a while. Having personal reasons and stakes, which can be something as simple as wanting to test themselves, is refreshing. Saving the world, universe, and multiverse in DB work as plots but I'm not that interested in those sorts of stakes. I'm not that interested in plot in general much anymore.