Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:31 am

RedHeat wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:This could be a problem. If their regular Super Saiyan Blue forms are animated/coloured THIS Blue.. than what would become of a Super Saiyan Blue Evolution’s colour?

Regular SSJ Blue is usually always more greenish when aura-less, while SSBE is far more Blue and has no greenish tint to it at all.
Yeah, it's even more worrying with a much better quality scan: [spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Tell me that isn't SSBE :lol:
This scan makes it even more troublesome and confirms the theory i feared. Just look at Vegeta’s eyes, they’re normal!
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Mister_Popo » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:40 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
SSJ YUSUKE wrote:So excited about Piccolo being front and center of the promotion for this new film. Intruiged to see what they will do with him.
Them showing his design doesn't mean anything. The same thing happened with ResF he got decent marketing but all he did was fight mooks.

In a movie about Saiyans I think people really need to adjust expectations for Piccolo otherwise we're gonna get the typical pages and pages and pages of complaining because people let their expectations get the better of them.

I am expecting at most Piccolo to help Goku farm for some vegetables.

It's a movie primaly about Saiyans, but does that have to mean we only see Saiyans fight? Why couldn't Piccolo become more relevant in the first part of the battle and overcome the level he had during TOP? if the villain is really strong, you need some convincing fighters to begin with to give some form of resistance, to depict how strong the villain really is. It's boring that's always only Vegeta who keeps standing for a while before Goku comes. In DBZ the other Z-fighters used to be more relevant. From second half Cell-arc and Buu-arc onwards it basically became the Saiyan-show. Concerning how strong Goku and Vegeta have become, it would be appealing Piccolo somehow manages to 'keep up', to make him relevant as a character again.

The fact Piccolo is shown in the first prints does not necessarily mean anything concerning the story. But this has nothing to do with the fact he could become relevant again to some degree, for instance by Whis training.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:40 am

GodVegetto91 wrote:This could be a problem. If their regular Super Saiyan Blue forms are animated/coloured THIS Blue.. than what would become of a Super Saiyan Blue Evolution’s colour?

Regular SSJ Blue is usually always more greenish when aura-less, while SSBE is far more Blue and has no greenish tint to it at all.
Since it's a Toei made cash grab transformation, and the movie is being closely guided and written by Toriyama, I highly doubt it'll be a problem or even a thing.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:24 am

mute_proxy wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:This could be a problem. If their regular Super Saiyan Blue forms are animated/coloured THIS Blue.. than what would become of a Super Saiyan Blue Evolution’s colour?

Regular SSJ Blue is usually always more greenish when aura-less, while SSBE is far more Blue and has no greenish tint to it at all.
Since it's a Toei made cash grab transformation, and the movie is being closely guided and written by Toriyama, I highly doubt it'll be a problem or even a thing.
Except that is not true at all. Despite the form not being marketed for 11 months and counting now (evidently not a "cash grab"), there is also no evidence to suggest Toriyama did or didn't come up with it.
Mister_Popo wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
SSJ YUSUKE wrote:So excited about Piccolo being front and center of the promotion for this new film. Intruiged to see what they will do with him.
Them showing his design doesn't mean anything. The same thing happened with ResF he got decent marketing but all he did was fight mooks.

In a movie about Saiyans I think people really need to adjust expectations for Piccolo otherwise we're gonna get the typical pages and pages and pages of complaining because people let their expectations get the better of them.

I am expecting at most Piccolo to help Goku farm for some vegetables.

It's a movie primaly about Saiyans, but does that have to mean we only see Saiyans fight? Why couldn't Piccolo become more relevant in the first part of the battle and overcome the level he had during TOP? if the villain is really strong, you need some convincing fighters to begin with to give some form of resistance, to depict how strong the villain really is. It's boring that's always only Vegeta who keeps standing for a while before Goku comes. In DBZ the other Z-fighters used to be more relevant. From second half Cell-arc and Buu-arc onwards it basically became the Saiyan-show. Concerning how strong Goku and Vegeta have become, it would be appealing Piccolo somehow manages to 'keep up', to make him relevant as a character again.

The fact Piccolo is shown in the first prints does not necessarily mean anything concerning the story. But this has nothing to do with the fact he could become relevant again to some degree, for instance by Whis training.
Not the point I was making, I'd love Piccolo to do something significant but history suggest otherwise but all this is coming out of nowhere everything about the movie thus far talks about Saiyans talks about Goku and all his forms, talks about Freeza etc. Piccolo is one a couple of magazine scans and all of a sudden people letting their imaginations run wild.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:32 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote: Except that is not true at all. Despite the form not being marketed for 11 months and counting now (evidently not a "cash grab"), there is also no evidence to suggest Toriyama did or didn't come up with it.
There is more evidence to suggest that he didn't come up with it with there being no evidence. Whenever we got something new on the show, V-Jump proudly printed out Toriyama's design sheets (since that is what excites people), and new merch and figures come to light right after. The same way they didn't do anything until the official version of UI came out or anything at all with SSRage. And as you said, not being marketed for 11 months, that is more than enough "proof" that it wasnt Tori.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:36 am

Okay, that's it, I'm bringing a stop to this whole deal.

Will these forms make it in?

Maybe, maybe not; nobody knows for sure.

Nobody knows if they've been approved by Toriyama or not, or whether or not that even matters with Toei's production.

What we DO know is that this movie will continue the DBS story after the Universal Survival Arc, so those events DID happen. The question then remains if the movie will continue from the anime; the most likely answer is "yes", given how important this film is as part of an overall story.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:39 am

mute_proxy wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:This could be a problem. If their regular Super Saiyan Blue forms are animated/coloured THIS Blue.. than what would become of a Super Saiyan Blue Evolution’s colour?

Regular SSJ Blue is usually always more greenish when aura-less, while SSBE is far more Blue and has no greenish tint to it at all.
Since it's a Toei made cash grab transformation, and the movie is being closely guided and written by Toriyama, I highly doubt it'll be a problem or even a thing.
The dragon ball super anime is still canon to itself and it’s own continued story, as well as to the original dragon ball manga as stated by Toriyama himself. This new movie is also said to be a continuation of the official in-universe story. This movie may (likely) be adopted into an entire arc after Super returns. Vegeta obtaining this form was a big plot point in the ToP arc, so i see no reason for them to exclude this form in any canonical future content. Your entire argument makes no sense.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:15 am

Michsi wrote:
Zen Yabuki wrote:
SSJ YUSUKE wrote:So excited about Piccolo being front and center of the promotion for this new film. Intruiged to see what they will do with him.
Realistically? Nothing significant. Love to be proven wrong though.
I'm also happy about this for now although he almost always is featured preeminently in promotional material while his actual role is not quite that,uh, significant.

In any case, I do recall Toshio Furukawa urging people to look forward to the movie in his end of DBS comment, so maybe?
He is always promoted somehow. Being revealed this early is probably better than any promotion he got for the Tournament of Power.
Mister_Popo wrote:

It's a movie primaly about Saiyans, but does that have to mean we only see Saiyans fight? Why couldn't Piccolo become more relevant in the first part of the battle and overcome the level he had during TOP? if the villain is really strong, you need some convincing fighters to begin with to give some form of resistance, to depict how strong the villain really is. It's boring that's always only Vegeta who keeps standing for a while before Goku comes. In DBZ the other Z-fighters used to be more relevant. From second half Cell-arc and Buu-arc onwards it basically became the Saiyan-show. Concerning how strong Goku and Vegeta have become, it would be appealing Piccolo somehow manages to 'keep up', to make him relevant as a character again.

The fact Piccolo is shown in the first prints does not necessarily mean anything concerning the story. But this has nothing to do with the fact he could become relevant again to some degree, for instance by Whis training.
Namekians can easily be connected to Saiyans and the Namekians Book of Legends is evidence of this.
Ki Breaker wrote: If it's anything like the ROF movie, everyone will perform fantastically depending on what scraps they are thrown..
That freeza army fight sequence was wonderful..

Now if the measurement of doing something is done through characters farting main villans to sun, then no, piccolo isn't gonna do jack when we have SSB right there..
There are said to be many Saiyans in this so I expect every characters who is fighting to get some of these.

Are you looking forward to enjoying Piccolo fight while his assistant is at home reading a book? :)

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:34 am

Ki Breaker wrote:
Zen Yabuki wrote:
SSJ YUSUKE wrote:So excited about Piccolo being front and center of the promotion for this new film. Intruiged to see what they will do with him.
Realistically? Nothing significant. Love to be proven wrong though.
If it's anything like the ROF movie, everyone will perform fantastically depending on what scraps they are thrown..
That freeza army fight sequence was wonderful..

Now if the measurement of doing something is done through characters farting main villans to sun, then no, piccolo isn't gonna do jack when we have SSB right there..
I think a more accurate measurement of worth would be worthwhile screen time, which include significance to the overall plot, and interesting character interactions and dynamics.

Personally, thats why I felt that Freeza army scene was kind of dull for the most part, it didn't add anything to the plot, you could have literally just had them power up and have Freeza destroy his own army in his transformation like in Super, and you would have gotten the same results. The only real thing that I thought was even remotely worthwhile about that fight was Jaco and Kuririn's interactions. Those were great.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:45 am

GodVegetto91 wrote:The dragon ball super anime is still canon to itself and it’s own continued story, as well as to the original dragon ball manga as stated by Toriyama himself. This new movie is also said to be a continuation of the official in-universe story. This movie may (likely) be adopted into an entire arc after Super returns. Vegeta obtaining this form was a big plot point in the ToP arc, so i see no reason for them to exclude this form in any canonical future content. Your entire argument makes no sense.
It does make sense not to include something that you didn't create into your own story, regardless if it's a "continuation of the anime". Toriyama has a history of disregarding filler/anime only ideas (Bardock's story/Freeza's hell etc.) while doing his work. What doesnt make sense is forcing SSBE into the movie just because it happened in the anime.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:15 am

mute_proxy wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:The dragon ball super anime is still canon to itself and it’s own continued story, as well as to the original dragon ball manga as stated by Toriyama himself. This new movie is also said to be a continuation of the official in-universe story. This movie may (likely) be adopted into an entire arc after Super returns. Vegeta obtaining this form was a big plot point in the ToP arc, so i see no reason for them to exclude this form in any canonical future content. Your entire argument makes no sense.
It does make sense not to include something that you didn't create into your own story, regardless if it's a "continuation of the anime". Toriyama has a history of disregarding filler/anime only ideas (Bardock's story/Freeza's hell etc.) while doing his work. What doesnt make sense is forcing SSBE into the movie just because it happened in the anime.
It’s not about Toriyama. That’s what fans seem to forget in this case. It’s about the actual in-universe story, and Toei and Toriyama will make sure to work that out together. Toei loves new transformations, and will likely make sure to include that. Furthermore, as someone else already mentioned earlier in this thread. There is also NO evidence that Toriyama DIDN’T create the design of Super Saiyan Blue Evolution! So now you too, are jumping to conclusions.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:54 am

GodVegetto91 wrote: It’s not about Toriyama. That’s what fans seem to forget in this case. It’s about the actual in-universe story, and Toei and Toriyama will make sure to work that out together. Toei loves new transformations, and will likely make sure to include that. Furthermore, as someone else already mentioned earlier in this thread. There is also NO evidence that Toriyama DIDN’T create the design of Super Saiyan Blue Evolution! So now you too, are jumping to conclusions.
It is about Toriyama, because it's very much advertised as his story. And yes, exactly, Toei loves new transformations, that's why SSRage and SSBE happened, but Toei isn't the one writing the movie, Toriyama is. Furthermore, I also mentioned that there is more "proof" that he didn't than there is that he did. Actually there's zero indication that he did. The form was inconsequential, had no buildup, no actual impact and was never mentioned again. And then there's the marketing part. That's not how they treat Toriyama's creations.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by majinwarman » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:14 am

mute_proxy wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote: It’s not about Toriyama. That’s what fans seem to forget in this case. It’s about the actual in-universe story, and Toei and Toriyama will make sure to work that out together. Toei loves new transformations, and will likely make sure to include that. Furthermore, as someone else already mentioned earlier in this thread. There is also NO evidence that Toriyama DIDN’T create the design of Super Saiyan Blue Evolution! So now you too, are jumping to conclusions.
It is about Toriyama, because it's very much advertised as his story. And yes, exactly, Toei loves new transformations, that's why SSRage and SSBE happened, but Toei isn't the one writing the movie, Toriyama is. Furthermore, I also mentioned that there is more "proof" that he didn't than there is that he did. Actually there's zero indication that he did. The form was inconsequential, had no buildup, no actual impact and was never mentioned again. And then there's the marketing part. That's not how they treat Toriyama's creations.
But I still think that they will add that from in just because they want to show that form off more.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:18 am

majinwarman wrote: But I still think that they will add that from in just because they want to show that form off more.
Personally I kind of doubt they'll even show UI in the movie :think: being a story about saiyan origins and stuff, I don't think something OP like that will be necessary.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by majinwarman » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:21 am

mute_proxy wrote:
majinwarman wrote: But I still think that they will add that from in just because they want to show that form off more.
Personally I kind of doubt they'll even show UI in the movie :think: being a story about saiyan origins and stuff, I don't think something OP like that will be necessary.
I don't think that they would drop UI at all. Toriyama made that form for a reason and they are going to use that form when they can.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:28 am

namekiansaiyan wrote:Are you looking forward to enjoying Piccolo fight while his assistant is at home reading a book? :)
No.. because
namekiansaiyan wrote: There are said to be many Saiyans in this so I expect every characters who is fighting to get some of these.
JazzMazz wrote: I think a more accurate measurement of worth would be worthwhile screen time, which include significance to the overall plot, and interesting character interactions and dynamics.

Personally, thats why I felt that Freeza army scene was kind of dull for the most part, it didn't add anything to the plot, you could have literally just had them power up and have Freeza destroy his own army in his transformation like in Super, and you would have gotten the same results. The only real thing that I thought was even remotely worthwhile about that fight was Jaco and Kuririn's interactions. Those were great.
While Krillin and Jaco's interactions were fantastic in their own right, every character who participated showed just how much of a fighter each one of them is, there were two factors at play here, opponents in huge number can overpower you if you misstep and none of them were trying to kill any soldiers, as much as they could..
It was fighting while being in full control and that's the best part of this, arguably overshadows the whole movie itself..
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Mister_Popo » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:25 am

mute_proxy wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote: It’s not about Toriyama. That’s what fans seem to forget in this case. It’s about the actual in-universe story, and Toei and Toriyama will make sure to work that out together. Toei loves new transformations, and will likely make sure to include that. Furthermore, as someone else already mentioned earlier in this thread. There is also NO evidence that Toriyama DIDN’T create the design of Super Saiyan Blue Evolution! So now you too, are jumping to conclusions.
It is about Toriyama, because it's very much advertised as his story. And yes, exactly, Toei loves new transformations, that's why SSRage and SSBE happened, but Toei isn't the one writing the movie, Toriyama is. Furthermore, I also mentioned that there is more "proof" that he didn't than there is that he did. Actually there's zero indication that he did. The form was inconsequential, had no buildup, no actual impact and was never mentioned again. And then there's the marketing part. That's not how they treat Toriyama's creations.

Blue Kaioken and even Blue Evo are perfectly recognisable by DBS-fans as being part of the official anime continuation (definetely Blue Kaioken). If there would be a reason not to show them, it's because they are aiming on a public that has only seen the last two movies but that hasn't seen Super. Even in that scenario i doubt that it would be commercially intresting enouugh not to include those forms just because they weren't in Toriyama's head from the beginning. For most fans it would be rather awkward, if Goku would shift from Blue straight to MUI without having used Blue Kaioken first.

Toriyama is also bound to what's commercial valuable and what's not. Yes, he's making the script, but he isn't going to ignore what brings in cash with such a bigmovie-budget and what TOEI's marketeers advice. This is an official continuation because it's official (call it canon) and Toriyama is probably more involed than in Super, but i don't look at this as it's exactly the same as the original manga either.

With the upmost respect for Toriyama and his work, but this movie aims really high in the box office rankings. The fact he's involved in the script enhanced the chances of success, and i think he still has something to give. But it's not going to rely on a 60-year old man's fantasy alone to deliver what it has to deliver.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:33 pm

mute_proxy wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote: Except that is not true at all. Despite the form not being marketed for 11 months and counting now (evidently not a "cash grab"), there is also no evidence to suggest Toriyama did or didn't come up with it.
There is more evidence to suggest that he didn't come up with it with there being no evidence. Whenever we got something new on the show, V-Jump proudly printed out Toriyama's design sheets (since that is what excites people), and new merch and figures come to light right after. The same way they didn't do anything until the official version of UI came out or anything at all with SSRage. And as you said, not being marketed for 11 months, that is more than enough "proof" that it wasnt Tori.
You are isolating things. That has only happened with UI Goku all other times Toriyama designs haven't had subsequent merch soon thereafter, U6 arc (didn't even get their WCF set until well over a year! And that was it), the Trunks arc, Caulifla, Toppo and Dyspo etc so you can't use the lack of merch as an argument it wasn't Toriyama*. By that logic SSGSS KK must have been a Toriyama idea then? SSG is a Toriyama creation but doesn't stop the merch department treating that form like shit.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:51 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:Are you looking forward to enjoying Piccolo fight while his assistant is at home reading a book? :)
No.. because
namekiansaiyan wrote: There are said to be many Saiyans in this so I expect every characters who is fighting to get some of these.
Who said he is fighting?
Ki Breaker wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: I think a more accurate measurement of worth would be worthwhile screen time, which include significance to the overall plot, and interesting character interactions and dynamics.

Personally, thats why I felt that Freeza army scene was kind of dull for the most part, it didn't add anything to the plot, you could have literally just had them power up and have Freeza destroy his own army in his transformation like in Super, and you would have gotten the same results. The only real thing that I thought was even remotely worthwhile about that fight was Jaco and Kuririn's interactions. Those were great.
While Krillin and Jaco's interactions were fantastic in their own right, every character who participated showed just how much of a fighter each one of them is, there were two factors at play here, opponents in huge number can overpower you if you misstep and none of them were trying to kill any soldiers, as much as they could..
It was fighting while being in full control and that's the best part of this, arguably overshadows the whole movie itself..
Characters messing around with so many weaklings is not that exciting.

It is just forced rubbish to extend the movie.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by BlueBasilisk » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:11 pm

If Toriyama had a problem with SSBE or Kaioken Blue he could have simply said no like he did for Jiren having Toppo's over the top hammy personality, or Toyotaro's idea to have Belmod and Marcarita be lovers. He also wrote the script for Resurrection F but if I recall he left the fight scenes mostly blank and left it up to the anime staff to create a cool spectacle because he knew they could. Him writing the script doesn't preclude either and it's not like he isn't open to ideas and suggestions from Toei. Wasn't this movie their pitch in the first place?

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