Some rankings and statistics on the use of Kikuchi's BGM in the series

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Rafa Fast
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Re: Some rankings and statistics on the use of Kikuchi's BGM in the series

Post by Rafa Fast » Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:07 pm

coola wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:33 am Makes me wonder, was there any other time, when BGM was used only one time for one specific scene like in DBZ Movie 5? https://youtu.be/p1jVDlBNbfs?t=510
If I understood correctly, well, that basically happens in every movie, like, literally every movie, none of the Kikuchi scores had their full set of tracks used in the TV series
M202, M206, M208, M209, M210, M211, M212, M214, M215, M216, M217, M218, M219, M221, M223, M224, M225, M227, M230, M231, M232, M233, M234, M235, M236, M237, M238, M239, M240, M241, M242, M243, M244, M248, M251, M252, M253, M254, M255, M258 and M263 aren't used out of DB Movie 1
M404, M405, M406, M410, M412, M413, M414, M421, M425EXT, M427, M428, M431, M432, M434EXT, M438 and M443 aren't used out of DB Movie 2
M601, M605, M607, M616, M618, M619, M621, M622, M629, M631, M632, M636, M638, M639, M646, M647, M648, M650, M651, M654 AND M655 aren't used out of DB Movie 3, just M619 that is used in The Trunks special
M814B doesn't play out of Z Movie 1, just in the Yo Son Goku and his Friends Return ova.
M901, M902, M904, M910, M915, M916, M921, M924 and M928 aren't used out of Z Movie 2, just M921 that is used in the Bardock special, and M924 in the Nippon Ijin Taisho special.
M1011B, M1013, M1017, M1019 and M1022 aren't used out of Z Movie 3
M1110, M1111, M1116, M1123 & M1125 aren't used out of Z Movie 4
M1202, M1210, M1219 and M1221 (as in your example) aren't used out of Z Movie 5
M1301 and M1319 aren't used out of Z Movie 6, just M1301 that is used in the Trunks special
M1403 and M1417 aren't used out of Z Movie 7
M1504, M1509, M1511, M1514, M1518, M1521 and M1524 aren't used out of Z Movie 8
M1604 and M1616 aren't used out of Z Movie 9
M1803, M1804, M1807, M1810, M1811, M1812, M1822 and M1826 aren't used out of Z Movie 10
M1903, M1904, M1905, M1906, M1907, M1909, M1915, M1924 and M1925 aren't used out of Z Movie 11
M2001, M2008, M2009, M2010, M2011, M2013, M2014, M2022, M2023A, M2023C, M2024 and M2025 aren't used out of Z Movie 12, just M2013 that is used in the Yo Son Goku and his Friends Return ova.
M2101, M2102, M2103, M2104, M2105, M2107, M2108, M2109, M2110, M2111, M2112, M2114, M2115, M2116, M2117, M2119, M2120, M2121, M2122, M2123, M2124 and M2125 aren't used out of Z Movie 13, just M2118 that is used in the Yo Son Goku and his Friends Return ova.
If you're not aware, that happens because these scores weren't made for the TV Series, they were made for the movies. The TV Series had their own scores too, of course, but weren't so many.
The A-J score was made for the First 7 episodes of OG DB.
The M00 score was the second score made for OG DB.
The M100 score was made for the first part of the Red Ribbon arc.
The M300 score was made for the second part of the Red Ribbon arc.
The M500 score was made for the Piccolo Daimao arc.
The M700 score was made for the First episodes of Z.
The M1700 score was made for the Boo arc.
Now the M200, M400, M600, M800, M900, M1000, M1100, M1200, M1300, M1400, M1500, M1600, M1800, M1900, M2000 and M2100 scores are all movie scores. The Movie tracks are used in the TV Series later because the music editors liked to use them, if they could use them, so they did it, but there are tracks that they didn't like to use, M1221, which is the BGM made for the scene from the Cooler movie in the video, was not used in the TV Series, but other tracks from the movie were, yeah people ocasionally think that all the BGMs thay play in the TV series were made for the TV, that's why you see people calling M912 as Freeza's theme, while in reality, it's Dr. Wheelo's theme, hope this helps.

Edit: forgot to mention that this happened even after Kikuchi, The Score for the 10th Anniversary special was used in GT, the score for Battle of Gods was used in Kai TFC, and the Kai TFC score was used in Super.
I simply wouldn't want to imagine my life without Dragon Ball, thank you Akira Toriyama (1955-2024), you are now immortal.

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Re: Some rankings and statistics on the use of Kikuchi's BGM in the series

Post by Rafa Fast » Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:14 pm

BladeXRG wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:23 am there is no such thing as a The Coora Crew Heads For Kurilin And Company alternate, it's just something he came up with because he didn't have the drama tape of movie 6 nor thought the second use of M1313A could be replacing an unused cue.
It's not like that partner, M1317A does exist, it just really sounds identical to the beginning of M1313A, but it's not it, as a proof, I'll show you 2 things.
This is M1317A, it has 4 seconds: http://bskcorp.free.fr/DBZ/M6/M-1317%20A.mp3
This is M1313A, when you try to take just it's first 4 seconds: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t03OGo ... p=drivesdk
Notice how M1317A's end sounds, the fade out of the track is perfect, while M1313A doesn't even has a complete fade out before the rest of the track starts at 2 seconds onwards, how can M1317A be the beginning of M1313A, if 13A's composition doesn't have the final note extended enough?
Second, music recycling happens very often in Movie Scores, even in Hollywood, I'll give you a example, check out "On The Bridge" from 2002 Sam Raimi's Spider-Man score, the part starting from 1:05: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lab82otsm1U
And then listen to the beginning of "Final battle, Part 3" from Saim Raimi's Spider-Man 3 score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7gg2NYp0qI
Noticed something in common? They sound identical, but that makes that specific part from "Final Batte, Part 3" irrelevant? And the real track is actually just 0:15 onwards?, no, what You heard here is just a Recycling, Music editors or even the composers themselves, sometimes, reuse existing material, and make some changes to it or even rehash it to create new material, that happens a lot specially in the The Dark Knight Trilogy, several tracks reuse parts from "Molossus", with minimum edits to it, that is a tactic used by them for easy work, avoiding the need of creating new music from 0, there's even another example for this in Dragon Ball itself, M434EXT is not M424EXT, but reuses a part of M424EXT for it's own bulding, the cymbals and chant even sound slightly different if compared to M424EXT, a more recent example, in the "Fukkatsu no 'F'" The last 1 minute of "Freeza and his Terrible Power" and the last 1 minute of "Merciless Freeza" are almost identical, or in Dragon Ball Super Broly, which in the last 58 seconds of "Broly's Rage and Sorrow" they reuse the part at 3:37-4:15 from "Broly Begins to Battle", that is music recycling, M1317A is a different track, it's just not a different composition.
I simply wouldn't want to imagine my life without Dragon Ball, thank you Akira Toriyama (1955-2024), you are now immortal.

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Re: Some rankings and statistics on the use of Kikuchi's BGM in the series

Post by BladeXRG » Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:23 pm

Rafa Fast wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:14 pm
BladeXRG wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:23 am there is no such thing as a The Coora Crew Heads For Kurilin And Company alternate, it's just something he came up with because he didn't have the drama tape of movie 6 nor thought the second use of M1313A could be replacing an unused cue.
It's not like that partner, M1317A does exist, it just really sounds identical to the beginning of M1313A, but it's not it, as a proof, I'll show you 2 things.
This is M1317A, it has 4 seconds: http://bskcorp.free.fr/DBZ/M6/M-1317%20A.mp3
This is M1313A, when you try to take just it's first 4 seconds: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t03OGo ... p=drivesdk
Notice how M1317A's end sounds, the fade out of the track is perfect, while M1313A doesn't even has a complete fade out before the rest of the track starts at 2 seconds onwards, how can M1317A be the beginning of M1313A, if 13A's composition doesn't have the final note extended enough?
Second, music recycling happens very often in Movie Scores, even in Hollywood, I'll give you a example, check out "On The Bridge" from 2002 Sam Raimi's Spider-Man score, the part starting from 1:05: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lab82otsm1U
And then listen to the beginning of "Final battle, Part 3" from Saim Raimi's Spider-Man 3 score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7gg2NYp0qI
Noticed something in common? They sound identical, but that makes that specific part from "Final Batte, Part 3" irrelevant? And the real track is actually just 0:15 onwards?, no, what You heard here is just a Recycling, Music editors or even the composers themselves, sometimes, reuse existing material, and make some changes to it or even rehash it to create new material, that happens a lot specially in the The Dark Knight Trilogy, several tracks reuse parts from "Molossus", with minimum edits to it, that is a tactic used by them for easy work, avoiding the need of creating new music from 0, there's even another example for this in Dragon Ball itself, M434EXT is not M424EXT, but reuses a part of M424EXT for it's own bulding, the cymbals and chant even sound slightly different if compared to M424EXT, a more recent example, in the "Fukkatsu no 'F'" The last 1 minute of "Freeza and his Terrible Power" and the last 1 minute of "Merciless Freeza" are almost identical, or in Dragon Ball Super Broly, which in the last 58 seconds of "Broly's Rage and Sorrow" they reuse the part at 3:37-4:15 from "Broly Begins to Battle", that is music recycling, M1317A is a different track, it's just not a different composition.
From what you've said I'd rather consider it an alternate of M1313A, not M1317. A lot of tracks, such as Wit's End, Kame Sennin's Grand Entrance, Oolong And Pu'erh Frighten Each Other, At Emperor Chaozu's Palace and more also share this thing of, even if the composition is the same, the beginnings/endings are perfectly smooth. I didn't really pay attention to the perfect fade out before, but now that I have I'm leaning towards thinking it was a replacement of the unused movie 6 and wasn't originally meant for the scene where it plays (like an M1313A-2 or M1317B or something) rather than thinking it was. Eitherway, M1313A is used at least five times in the anime.

PD: correcting your comment of the BGM series, there are a lot of tracks you mentioned as unused that were in fact used, I don't have all day to go over it, but the most important part is that the M1400s are the only movie series to have all their BGMs used in the anime, M1403 and M1417 are in fact used in the anime, four times and once respectively.

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Re: Some rankings and statistics on the use of Kikuchi's BGM in the series

Post by Rafa Fast » Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:35 pm

BladeXRG wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:23 pm From what you've said I'd rather consider it an alternate of M1313A, not M1317. A lot of tracks, such as Wit's End, Kame Sennin's Grand Entrance, Oolong And Pu'erh Frighten Each Other, At Emperor Chaozu's Palace and more also share this thing of, even if the composition is the same, the beginnings/endings are perfectly smooth. I didn't really pay attention to the perfect fade out before, but now that I have I'm leaning towards thinking it was a replacement of the unused movie 6 and wasn't originally meant for the scene where it plays (like an M1313A-2 or M1317B or something) rather than thinking it was. Eitherway, M1313A is used at least five times in the anime.
Well that's true, I just like to call it M1317A because it plays in that moment in the final version of the movie, and because it shares the same length as M1317B, but going by this vision, it really makes more sense as a M1313C? Or, since 17B was the original intention for that scene, then that would make 17A the actual alternate? The drama tape is avery rare material that contains the audio of a probably earlier version of the film, that's why in the drama tape of Movie 4 we hear the original version of M1114, or the full version of M1113, so your statement about M1317B being the original track meant for that scene is definitely correct, but I will continue thinking that M1317A is a alternate of it, it was probably a last second choice "Hey, M1317 doesn't sound very cool in this scene, let's borrow the beginning of M1313A and edit it out to make a better track", I believe there's also a small chance of M1313B actually being the original intention for the "Vegeta gets his balls kicked" scene, well, idk.
wrote: PD: correcting your comment of the BGM series, there are a lot of tracks you mentioned as unused that were in fact used, I don't have all day to go over it, but the most important part is that the M1400s are the only movie series to have all their BGMs used in the anime, M1403 and M1417 are in fact used in the anime, four times and once respectively.
Yeah as I thought, that list is part of my huge Kikuchi scores analysis that I started in February, it's still in the works, I wrote that list based on it's current state (yeah I wrote that M622 is unused even though I remember very well of it being used somewhere in the final episodes of OG DB), thanks for the Movie 7 correction, M1403 I knew it was used, but M1417? Seriously??? Later I'll check it out, thanks!
I simply wouldn't want to imagine my life without Dragon Ball, thank you Akira Toriyama (1955-2024), you are now immortal.

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