The Super Re-Read

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:52 am

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:08 am [*] Moro always seems intent on having some sort of back-up plan or cautious, hidden approach (artistically pointed up by his serpentine eyes), despite the very straightforward goals he has - or, as Goku puts it in 超 #65, he's "a sneaky coward". He hides his "true intent" of devouring Vegeta and Goku's power in the first battle, slowly whittling their power away in 超 #45; he also keeps the fact he has another wish secret until his first is granted, and doesn't reveal its contents until it's too late and his convict allies have arrived (超 #48-50). He lets his pawns do the fighting in 超 #50, siphoning energy from Vegeta and Goku and gifting it to his goons, and he uses the abilities of one particular goon (OG73-I) to "create a complete back-up" of himself in case things go wrong (as they do, in 超 #61), which enables him to gain the upper hand once again. But in battle, his approach is rarely straightforward: He waits for Goku to wear himself out in the first phase of their battle (超 #59), and then when he sees the full extent of Goku's power, says simply he "approached you too cautiously" (超 #60). Even though he is confident Dende poses no threat, he makes sure by sealing off the battlefield with a barrier (超 #62). Once Goku attains True Ultra Instinct, however, there aren't any obvious ploys left - only fear (超 #64)
I'm glad you mentioned that aspect of Moro's character. At least until the fight against Vegeta on Earth, I really appreciated the way Moro approached most situations. He is probably the most cautious opponent Dragon Ball has had in a long time. You have cited most instances in which this occurred, but in fact even in situations where he was stronger than the enemy or in a position of advantage he remained cautious enough not to let the situation take an unfavorable turn.

To be specific, when he noticed the development of Vegeta in Yardrat, immediately expanding his hunt for planets with good quality energy so that he could test his limits and become even stronger for the confrontation with him (different than Cell did when creating Cell games and allowing the Z Fighters to improve without worry, for example). Or when he bargained with his full power to force Goku to show the extent of his powers and consequently the weaknesses of his form (UI sign), leaving Moro in an even more comfortable position in the fight (and as attested in chapter 60, all this time Moro was already stronger than Goku when it came to battle power, but he approached the situation in a way that he didn’t take any unnecessary risks).

Although I think that in the arc's climax, the "Moro turns the tables" factor has been played too many times, it seems fitting that Goku has called him the toughest opponent he has ever faced considering his resilience
Magnificent Ponta wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:08 am While the restoration of power and the restoration of youth for Moro takes its cue from his inspiration, Piccolo Daimao, and is intelligible to this extent, I wave a reluctant goodbye to the original, ancient goat depiction of Moro. There's something increasingly insipid and less threatening about the youthful and buff Moro when compared with his craggy elderly counterpart, and I feel like this wasn't really a necessary change, either, given his nimbleness and ability to mix in physical as well as magical attacks, though I suppose it was natural enough.[/list]
I agree, however I must say that youth Moro's design grew on me during the arc. While his old state may seem more threatening, at the same time it conveyed the feeling of a decrepit state and far from his peak.

Considering the powerhouse he became at the end of the arc, I don't know if this design would work. Youth Moro's design represents vitality and power of someone who has finally returned to his best.In short, it works for me
Magnificent Ponta wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:08 am So, that's what I get of Moro's character. He's a thief to the end, and that (his incorrigibility), mixed with his compulsion to devour and predate on others (his insatiableness), overrides his natural serpentine caution and cunning to steal things he can't handle, hastening his own end.
Great analysis. Particularly, I would say that his absorption, which served the plot and Goku / Vegeta's character arcs very well (their search for ways to combat this technique without using traditional raw strength was refreshing) and some personality traits like good analytical abilities and a more cautious approach to heroes make him a notable addition to the Dragon Ball gallery, but Moro really needed his character to be more fleshed out.

It's not a problem that he is more straightfoward and more like a traditional DB villain, but he just seems to be missing something. Which leads me to ask, what do you guys think of Toyo's portrait of villains? They have well-established themes that connect to the heroes' character arcs and the themes of the arc itself, but there seems to be something missing compared to the villains of the original DB

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:00 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:52 amHe is probably the most cautious opponent Dragon Ball has had in a long time. You have cited most instances in which this occurred, but in fact even in situations where he was stronger than the enemy or in a position of advantage he remained cautious enough not to let the situation take an unfavorable turn.
Thanks for your post! I agree with this; I think I'd also note that Moro's natural caution often seems to be in direct tension with his more general attitude of being the most superior being in existence (which certainly allows the heroes a number of opportunities to escape death), but in a way they're directly linked: as Moro's sense of superiority is directly tied to the fact that he can basically eat the life force of (almost) anything and anyone, his caution seems mostly geared towards doing things that enable him to maintain that sense of superiority (i.e. stacking the deck to make it easier to end up eating ki and perpetuating the cycle).

It kind of makes it strange that he doesn't do more to secure his food supply (and therefore superiority) over the long term - e.g., making multiple trips to Earth to enfeeble the inhabitants to feed himself, but leaving them alive so he can come back and repeat the process ad infinitum. I guess such a strategy wouldn't be in keeping with the more predatory aspects of Moro's character, perhaps.
TheSaiyanGod wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:52 amConsidering the powerhouse he became at the end of the arc, I don't know if this design would work. Youth Moro's design represents vitality and power of someone who has finally returned to his best.In short, it works for me
That's a fair enough observation. I guess I'm just pleased that the design moves on some more - I think the sleeker MoroOG73-I is an aesthetic more befitting the rejuvenated, powered-up Moro (just choosing between them as a matter of personal preference).
TheSaiyanGod wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:52 amIt's not a problem that he is more straightfoward and more like a traditional DB villain, but he just seems to be missing something. Which leads me to ask, what do you guys think of Toyo's portrait of villains? They have well-established themes that connect to the heroes' character arcs and the themes of the arc itself, but there seems to be something missing compared to the villains of the original DB
In my opinion, for Dragon Ball Super generally, it's more the case that 'villains' as such are harder to come by than they are in Dragon Ball; most of the antagonists before this point aren't really villains, they're merely adversaries (Goku Black/Zamas being the notable exception). Since we have that ambiguity built into the encounter, I think it's unsurprising it doesn't make one feel quite the same way as Dragon Ball did. But I agree, I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of other members on this point.

For Moro specifically, however, I'd suggest it's that he seems basically 'narratively inert' for a significant portion of his own arc, as he fades into the background instead of driving action that we're likely to care about. We see him doing Moro-type things in this Second Act lull, but whereas they might have used his new associates to produce interactions that show extra dimensions to Moro, or at least fresh presentations of his character (eventually they manage it once, in Chapter 58), they're very much the same kind of Moro-type things we already saw in a more dramatically satisfying context on Namek. By the time we get a slew of fresher re-presentations of Moro's character traits on Earth, the arc has really already spent too much time doing nothing with him.

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:15 am

The Super Re-Read: Chapters 49 - 52
Part 2 (Chapters 51 and 52)

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A good time of day to you, Dear Reader. The Super Re-Read trundles on inexorably into the second part of this particular instalment, making its way through the Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc as we finish off Volume 11 of the Dragon Ball Super manga. With the battle on Namek over and Moro in control of the field, the story moves towards a Galactic scope as Moro starts to achieve his overall goals with his newfound mooks, and the heroes are forced to try to find new ways of opposing him...

As ever, I simply must allude to the gratitude yadda-yadda for Kanzenshuu's information resources, which make things like the Super Re-Read possible (or at least better than it would otherwise be). Go check that stuff out, particularly the Translations archive.

Okay, time to dive right back in - grab your manga, and let's get re-reading..!

Chapter 51 - To Each Their Own Plans/To Each Their Own Plans
21 August 2019
Chapter Notes
  • As mentioned in the last instalment, the opening here seems to run as the second part of what might almost be the second part of a pairing with 超 #49's opening, since they both appear to reference different aspects of the opening to DB #325 - this time, the planet shown dying from Space.
  • I guess the implication of Moro's total rejuvenation here is that he's now back to the condition and power level that we saw in the flashback to his fight with Dai Kaioshin in 超 #43. I have to say (and have already said), I'm going to miss the signs of age in Moro's design; I felt they were more characterful - but of course, Moro's depiction in line with Piccolo Daimao essentially dictates the need for his rejuvenation as 'of a piece' with the restoration of his power.
  • As I mentioned last time, I really enjoy the silly little gag around the Galactic King's nudity, and around Galactic attitudes to what counts as indecency. This joke first appeared in Jaco+1, where Jaco protests that "It's ordinary on my planet!", and it gets a literal re-run here for any of the fanbase who might not have read Jaco the Galactic Patrolman by this point. The funniest part, for me, is the panicked "Eeek!" from the King when it's pointed out that he hasn't made himself decent, but the zoom-in on Jaco's crotch is pretty damn precious, too.
  • Thinking about it, since Buu falls asleep yet again, he actually seems to get a whole extra 2-month hibernation sequence here, between now and 超 #66, when Jaco manages to wake him up again and summon up the Dai Kaioshin one last time - he'll revert without sleeping in 超 #67, at the end of the arc.
  • Over on the Galactic Patrol ship, we get a characteristic effusion of frustration from Vegeta - Goku being a continuing focus of his animus, as always, prompts cries of 'character reversion' from the fanbase, but Goku being his (continuing) ultimate target was confirmed some years back in the Kanzenban re-release of DB #519 (when the reaction was broadly similar) - Vegeta sets Goku as his target, and Goku focuses on pushing his own limits and testing himself (as Vegeta comments in DB #510), so in some way, Goku is the focus of both their efforts - while this is a strength for Goku, it's arguably a weakness for Vegeta. I think it's more worthwhile to look at this beat in the context of Vegeta's self-conscious attempt at heroism, and his mounting frustration at its complete failure, as the Namekians he was determined to protect have all died, the route to the restoration of the planet seems cut off, and the power advantage he held over Moro now seems to be gone - in any case, he's been out-manoeuvred - "made a fool of", as he puts it here - by what he dismissively calls "parlor tricks"; that his strategy now involves doing things like this no doubt needles his personal pride (as well as having to walk back his boast from 超 #40, that being taught anything by anyone doesn't suit him). One other interesting feature of the Vegeta-Goku dynamic is that Vegeta has developed a tendency to further himself by addressing specific problems that he observes and developing appropriate countermeasures, whereas Goku is simply pushing his own limits and testing himself (though it also has this effect). For instance, Vegeta counters the problem of SSjB's loss of power (when opposed by a similar form) in 超 #22, by minimising its use by repeatedly surging out of the less demanding SSjG, whereas Goku looks forward and completes the form in 超 #24; similarly, Vegeta develops a specific countermeasure to Moro's energy-stealing magic in Forced Spirit Fission - which works, after a fashion, in 超 #61 - but Goku focuses on developing himself first and foremost, which is what leads to the completion of Ultra Instinct, in 超 #64.
  • For the first true outing of the Bandit Brigade, we go on a trip to the Planet Zoon. We were last here in DB #449, when Babidi magically transported Earth's warriors there in an effort to help Pui-Pui in his fight with Vegeta. The principal datum from that earlier time is that Zoon's gravity is ten times that of Earth; the depiction of it in this Chapter is artistically the same as back then, too (though the gravity seems to make about as much difference to Shimorekka as it does to Vegeta). Pui-Pui is the most noteworthy Zoon native, but various servants of Babidi also appear to be from Zoon (as in DB #451). Merus states in this Chapter that Zoon is beyond the immediate reach of the Galactic Patrol, so it's probably further from their HQ than Earth is (and Goku can't sense that far away, either, so it must be further away than New Namek was) - so it must be really on the outskirts of the Galaxy.
  • The guards here note the need to "protect the royal treasure", so presumably Zoon has a monarch (it's interesting how monarchy seems more in evidence than any other system of government in Dragon World, at pretty much all levels of existence) - though the chest containing the Royal Treasure is apparently best protected in the literal middle of nowhere, which is something of a question mark. The crown atop the treasure is, in real-world terms, an Imperial (enclosed) Crown rather than just an open royal circlet, so perhaps Zoon is at the heart of an empire (planetwide or otherwise). And frankly, if Upa making the sign of The Cross in DB #99 is evidence that Christianity exists in Dragon World (as the Daizenshuu contend), then the crucifix atop the Crown of Zoon is clear evidence that Christianity has made it as far as Zoon by now. Jesuits been workin' overtime
  • OG73-I has ocular beams of his own, presumably without recourse to his copy ability. As an artificial life-form, he seems to have a set of default characteristics and capabilities, including the usual super strength/speed combo, heightened durability, and infinite stamina. And, I guess, the ability to survive as a battered severed head (超 #67).
  • Although it ultimately doesn't matter that much, as the Namekian Dragon Balls end up restoring all the planets destroyed by Moro in 超 #67, the little scene with Miza, Iwaza and Kikaza shows that Moro probably wasn't confining himself to worlds with sentient mortals - Yardrat and Earth, at least, manage to escape the rampage, so probably a handful of other such worlds manage it too, even though Moro does it for 2 straight months. Narratively, the only thing we really needed to see was on Zoon, to get a sense of what some of the Bandit Brigade are like, what they're doing and therefore what we might imagine is going on overall, as the scenario repeats itself across the Galaxy. But unless the story were interested in doing anything with these guys on a character level, this scene alone is more than enough; what might have been an opportunity for characterisation (either of Moro or his goons) is in the event a pretty by-the-numbers montage, which will get a couple of more in-depth outings on Earth, and a bunch of incidental scenery besides. The only Bandit Brigade stuff I think I will unreservedly enjoy is the fight on Yardrat, in 超 #55, but I guess I'm going to get the opportunity to test that assumption in the next instalment...
  • Favourite Art: I like the panel of Goku throwing the punch at Merus - I think it's got some real 'presence' in it, and I think part of that is the composition: it has a certain kind of symmetry to it. Other than that, there's some nice touches in the sparring match between Goku and Merus generally, such as Goku's recovery from getting spun out by Merus, landing in SSj3 with the hair continuing the spinning motion around him. I also like the return of the same transformation 'rings' (for want of a better term) in the SSjG transformation, which harks back to his last use of the form in 超 #29 against Toppo - but instead of the 'double-iris' sort of effect expanding out into the void, the power of it is communicated by giving the room they're in a battering.
  • Finally, we get a return to Planet Jung, where the Macarenis finish what they started back in 超 #43. It seems that the Blue Aurum was in its ore form when they stole the trainload, as they're now stealing the "processed" metal that has been stored in a safe - what was 4 train cars-worth is now carried off in about a dozen briefcases. The fellow he holds up appears to be the same as the train guard from 超 #43; Pasta finishes off by shooting some of the law enforcement officers they were able to evade last time. Penne's overhearing of Jaco's offhand comment to Son Goku in 超 #43 serves as the beginning to what will end up being a somewhat 'by-the-numbers' plot point of the small-time villains bringing the Big Bad down on our heroes.
Chapter 52 - Goku and Vegeta’s Training/Goku and Vegeta’s Training
21 September 2019
Chapter Notes
  • The innovation of there being (at least) two distinct types of Yardratian - one inspired by their classic DBZ Anime appearance, the other inspired by Toriyama's own design for Dragon Ball Online - is a nice enough way of resolving the once-apparent discrepancy. Toyotarou has mentioned that he wanted to keep the sense of fun and cuteness, and break some of the "tension" of the arc. Does it work? I guess so. At the very least it's a breather from the sense of a dour, high-stakes doomsday scenario, so if that's what Toyotarou means, I'll give him that. But on the other hand, we're now well into the stretch of Act 2 that is defined by 'nothing much of consequence happening', which is hard to describe accurately with the word "tension".
  • Just like there was a re-run of a gag from Jaco in 超 #51, there's another one now, as both Hatska and Pybara mistake Irico for the Saiyan Vegeta - a silly little gag that takes its cue from Jaco+1, where Dr. Briefs assumes that Dr. Omori is "the alien" instead of the much more obvious Jaco. Unsurprisingly, the arc takes a number of gags from Jaco the Galactic Patrolman (or at least riffs on them), given his presence in the plot overall.
  • Hatska mentions that the Ginyu Force had caused trouble on Yardrat, and that Goku and Vegeta beating them solved that problem. DB #336 was the first place it was mentioned that the Ginyu Force "were in the middle of conquering" Yardrat, which is why Goku ended up there following the destruction of Namek - a portion of Yardrat is empty of inhabitants (as is seen in 超 #55), so perhaps some of this is owed to the "stir" they created. However, the Ginyu Force was, according to Freeza, located on "Planet Freeza" (Number 79?) when sent for back in DB #264, which would indicate that the conquest of Yardrat was undertaken in piecemeal stages (and, of course, left unfinished). Annihilating the inhabitants of a planet for resale is a protracted process - Raditz noted in DB #198, for instance, that even assisted by Nappa and Vegeta, it would perhaps take something like a month to eradicate the Human population of Earth (puny and backward though it is) - Vegeta agrees that he would only be able to eradicate the whole planet quickly when transformed, which is why he chose a 'Full Moon' phase to arrive on Earth (DB #232). The Ginyu Force are defeated on Namek - Vegeta kills Gurd in DB #274; Goku defeats Recoome in DB #280, and Butta in DB #282 (in which Chapter Vegeta kills them both); Vegeta kills Jheese in DB #289; and thanks to Goku's intervention, Ginyu ends up accidentally body-switching with a Namekian Frog in DB #290.
  • Elder Pybara is introduced as the person who taught Son Goku Shunkan Idou - I really enjoy the adjustment of what the Yardratians actually do, in this Chapter. Not only is Spirit Control a pleasingly streamlined way of uniting and conveying a series of (what appear to be) different techniques under a broad principle, but it also serves to continue Vegeta's new path to power, which we left in 超 #40, by giving him something definite to aim for in contradistinction to Ultra Instinct (which he gave up on trying for back then). I'd like to see more of this particular concept that could develop Vegeta along more esoteric lines, and show us more unusual things that can be done with a person's ki - we're used to seeing Earth abilities (which were considered unusual among the denizens of the wider Universe), so it would be nice to see other ways in which ki can be manipulated. But as of right now, of course, it seems likeliest that we won't see any of this again, as Vegeta looks to learn this other Divine technique from Beerus, which will probably be central to his next phase of development (超 #68).
  • Among the things Pybara mentions as outward manifestations of Spirit Control are:
    • Balance of Body and Spirit - This is the principal effect of "polishing" one's Spirit: one achieves a balance that aligns the Body and Spirit in such a way that allows one to project one's power to its fullest extent. The fact that Vegeta is puzzled by Pybara's warnings over how he wields his power, and his own surprise at it being much more powerful than he expects, indicates that the primary effect of this alignment is not to make one more powerful in the conventional, 'bigger ki' sense we're used to seeing in Dragon Ball (though it may also do that), but to maximise one's power projection through the quality of one's ki. It took Son Goku 150 days to achieve this balance (超 #53), and although Vegeta's Spirit was even less well-aligned with his body than Goku's (meaning that he wouldn't be able to wield his power to the extent expected by just its sheer size), he achieved this balance "in no time".
    • Heightened Senses - Pybara notes in 超 #55 that a honed Sprit can sense others, however far away they might be. Vegeta senses the goings-on on Earth clearly from Yardrat, despite the fact that Earth is further from Yardrat than New Namek is (10 days' journey using a Galactic Patrol ship, as opposed to 7 from New Namek). These senses can also detect the character of a Spirit (Hatska notes that the Bandits landing on Yardrat have "Wicked Spirits", in 超 #55), but these senses cannot detect Divine Power (超 #60). This enhanced ability leads on to the next, however...
    • Shunkan Idou (Instantaneous Movement) - We've been familiar with this technique since DB #336, when Goku first demonstrates it as the only thing he had time to learn and get the hang of - Pybara mentions it's the most basic technical application of Spirit Control, in 超 #55. Daizenshuu #7 describes the technique thus: "This teleportation senses a person’s ki, then moves to where that person is. Because of this, it is impossible to move anywhere that does not have people or ki you know." This Chapter adds to this understanding somewhat, as Pybara mentions that it is performed by "shifting" one's ki. 超 #60 adds that one must "lock onto the target's Spirit", or else the movement may end up wayward. So, it seems that it is performed by detecting the ki of the target, locking on to it, and shifting one's own ki there - the body instantly follows.
    • Making Copies - This is most often used by Hatska, "so people don't mess with us". Pybara indicates this is done by "splitting" one's ki. The clones created appear to be autonomous and capable of independent action and reaction (as in this very Chapter, and also in 超 #55, where multiple clones speak independently), and each appears to have its own ki - Pybara, for instance, heals all of Hatska's clones in 超 #60. Since a 'splitting' is involved here, it is possible that it bears some resemblance to Tenshinhan's Shishin no Ken from DB #178-179, which split his ki between the four bodies made by the technique. However, Hatska introduces himself as 10 people in this Chapter, almost absent-mindedly.
    • Gigantification - Pybara tends to use this almost as a default. He indicates that this is done by "growing" one's ki. As with the other manifestations of Spirit Control, the body's response is perfectly in sync with what is done to one's ki. Piccolo manages something similar in DB #186, though Daizenshuu #7 specifies that this is an intrinsic Namekian ability which concentrates the nerves to stimulate cell growth.
    • Healing Power - Pybara uses this on Vegeta in 超 #55, noting it's an advanced technique. Not much else is stated about it, but we've seen healing techniques lots of times in Dragon Ball before - and even in this very arc, as both Buu and Esca can attest.
    • Forced Spirit Fission - This is what Vegeta will end up mastering in 超 #60, and use against Moro in 超 #61. Goku explains that it "tears apart things that were combined through fusion or absorption", which makes it perfect to oppose a foe like Moro, whose power is an aggregation of stolen ki - it can only do this via the infliction of damage, as noted in 超 #62, but can be achieved either by direct contact or ranged attacks. It can return 'Spirit' to its original owners, and can also take from willing participants and impart gifted energy to new wielders via the same basic principle, as shown in 超 #66 - used this way, it is perhaps similar to the Genki Dama.
    If one had to summarise the Yardratian approach in an axiom, it would probably be something like Where the Spirit leads, the Body follows. As we can see, most of the Yardratian focus on Spirit Control seems to treat the Spirit and the Body as two sides of the same coin, which need to be perfectly polished, aligned, and held in balance to use 'Spirit' in this esoteric way - which, appropriately, therefore effects the body directly. This also seems to stand in as a motif for a lot of what happens in the confrontations with Moro, as the Spirit (both according to the Yardratian idiom as 'ki', and the more readily intelligible meaning of one's inmost self) leads to the bodily changes we see in Goku, Moro, and Merus, as they are led by their own spirits into fundamentally observable change as the arc wends its way towards a climax. Perhaps the introduction of the Yardratians and their philosophy now as we approach the half-way mark (超 #55, where they again take centre stage) serves as a fitting keystone in an arc that plays with ideas and depictions of both changeableness and the unchanging. That might be an idea to think with later, but I think I'll casually lay it down for now, having mentioned it.
  • Ghetti voices the hope that Earth has plenty of Blue Aurum - as attentive readers will note, there's no hope of that: Jaco #3 establishes that Skygold is "practically impossible to get hold of" - two pounds would cost 76 million yen (50.6 million Zeni, or about $500,000; I went into a price comparison with ordinary, real-world gold in the Chapter Notes for 超 #43); its rarity accordingly lessens the value of Earth as a spot for a heist...
  • Piccolo gets a 'moment' beating up on some "weak", small-time nobodies (the Macarenis, natch), which, in a slightly hackneyed development, brings the attention of mightier foes down on Earth (I think Moro's reaction is supposed to be more ominous than comes across, but it does give me a chuckle to see him told that the Macarenis have cried for help, only to give what is basically a 'huh. cool' reaction; you take enjoyment where you find it, I guess). It's always nice to see Piccolo remind us of his position as a user of weird powers, or whatever (and Even Better Than The Bad Guys, in case you wanted to know). I think the last time we saw him use his stretchy limbs was 超 #10 (and before that, you'd have to go back to the 23rd Budokai, I think); if anything, though, OG73-I will be even more fond of it than Piccolo is. Really, though, this is a pretty anodyne piece of action that shows us what we already know these characters can do, interspersed with an exchange that tells us what we already know about the situation. It's all logical enough, and well done in its way, but just fills out the pages and little else.
  • There are a couple of things that I enjoy unreservedly, though - first is the tying up of the gang in a rope that Piccolo must have magicked up using his Clothes Beam (and more broadly, the Wild West Future aesthetic that tends to show up around the Macarenis, which was also in evidence in 超 #43); second is Pasta's curt "No thank you" when they try to make their escape, which gives me a chuckle.
  • Favourite art: A much better (and more meaningful) piece of action comes in Goku sparring with Merus. I enjoy seeing Merus's use of his staff, and particularly the panel where he gives Goku a hefty 'Thwack' on the back - a nice, meaty panel with some effective 'impact' perspective work (we'll see some more of this cool stuff in 超 #63). Also, I dunno about anyone else here, but when I was young and first getting into comics, I found it a revelation to see multiple quick movements depicted in a single panel, coming from a single figure (as here, in Merus's staff-work, or Goku's dodging), as opposed to American comics, which tended more to favour fully articulated figures separately depicted for each new movement, which slowed the pace of action down by comparison; it still gives me a little thrill whenever I see it (I'm not saying this is a particularly remarkable example of it, or anything, but I do always love to see it, and this seems as good a time as any to mention it).
  • I like the progression of Merus's unfolding Angel status. Up until now, there has been a series of suggestive but still perfectly deniable hints that he might be more than just a super-competent fellow we've never seen before; revealing knowledge of Ultra Instinct is the first clear indication that he's privy to information that would be beyond mortal ken (apart from 超 #43, where he knows Moro's backstory, but you'd have to be inclined to read it that way). Alongside that, we get a couple more subtle prods with the Divine-style (Egyptian-inspired) architecture on the otherwise abandoned planet, and Merus's allusion to Whis in his fighting stance. I think the forthcoming scenes around Merus in 超 #53-55 (when it is first stated definitively that he is an Angel) are well-judged and don't try the reader's patience: 超 #53 only gives us a brief exchange, in which only Ultra Instinct is in view, and 超 #54, which lands the other major hint that Merus is not mortal (he doesn't need to eat) is characteristically passed over by Goku, but the 'mystery' isn't drawn out any more narratively when it has become obvious, as it leads immediately into the discussion between Whis and The Grand Priest (spanning 超 #54-55) about Merus and the problem he poses. From first 'proper' hint to definitive revelation is about 13 pages. I think Merus's character and arc are generally well-handled, but I guess a 'deep dive' on that is probably more appropriate in the next instalment.
  • As a final comment, I enjoy the reveal that a Room of Spirit and Time is hidden behind the door. The other side of the Room on Earth received a full exposition in DB #377 from Goku: "It's supposed to be as big as Earth itself (...) it's a blank world with only 1/4 as much air and 10 times the gravity of Earth." While the Room has had a time dilation factor of 1 day : 1 year since first mentioned in DB #366, here the ratio is 1 day : 3 days. I guess this raises the question of whether these are two portals to the same world (and the dilation is controlled on the other side), portals to different worlds in the same 'dimension' (where time passes at different rates), or portals to the same world (but the passage of time varies depending on where in that world you are). Answers on a postcard.
  • So ultimately, with the conclusion of the First Act and the onset of the Second Act, I guess this is where we begin the slide towards something of a plotting Black Hole. And like with all Black Holes, we can already see things get slower and stretchier; 'spaghettified', if you will - elliptical, 'decompressed' plotting, which fixates on both showing and telling (or, more accurately, showing us people telling people stuff), interspersed with liberal but increasingly anodyne action - this will mostly be the order of the day, until 超 #58 at the earliest (more probably 超 #59). The arc will only escape with difficulty.
    Even so, there have been some good things here (mostly appearing in 超 #52), which will achieve prominence and carry through the rest of the arc - the Yardrat stuff and the way it works in Vegeta's arc is enjoyable, and Merus's arc and its relationship to Goku's attempt to realise Ultra Instinct is probably one of the things I'm most looking forward to re-reading (we saw an enjoyable amount of Merus-related stuff here, too). The revelation that Dai Kaioshin's power was hidden within, and obliterated with, Kid Buu is also a vital plot point that will come home to roost in the climax of the arc in 超 #66. The art has generally been strong enough, too. These are probably the strong features of this section.
    This section has been dominated by the protracted destruction of Namek, and the emergence of the Saganbo Bandit Brigade (the former being drawn out to incorporate the latter). On one level, having these nobody scrubs show up to trouble the heroes works to further our perception of Moro's threat, since he's able to gift his power to them in order to make them a credible threat to the Galactic Patrol, and to the Galaxy (and, later, to the heroes in various ways). But really, most of them won't stand out, and it seems more a case of the plot being led by its themes (in this case, Stealing - it's what they're all arrested for and what they share with Moro, and it's what we see them start to do in 超 #51) by showing other, literal ways in which the themes apply, rather than being served by its themes. In stacking the odds and forcing a relatively exciting retreat from Namek in 超 #50, they're well enough deployed, but after that, there's not much - it's unsurprising that the plot ends up using the more familiar Macarenis to bring the plot to Earth, as not all of the actual Bandit Brigade will actually be introduced and named until 超 #57. As for Moro, his course is set here - we'll get nothing new out of him until 超 #61, really: 超 #50 establishes he wishes to contrive a Galaxy that lets him eat to his heart's content, and then he does a lot of that, which continues the established line of strengthening him, and not much else. They're all employed to meet a theme and fill out the arc, but on the whole, one can hardly say they're really used.
    But here, we begin to see the rise of a challenging theme - one of Earning, which Goku and Vegeta embark upon in earnest in 超 #52, in a way that continues the divergence between the pair that was elucidated upon in the previous arc (in both a literal and a thematic way, here) - Goku continues to work towards the Divine Power of Ultra Instinct, whereas Vegeta will do his own thing in seeking out Spirit Control. The arc will drive them both back together to reassert the theme of Teamwork, specifically between the pair of them despite themselves (prevalent in most of Dragon Ball Super's arcs, and in all of them from the Future Trunks arc onwards).
Okay, that's another Volume finished up and taken care of - over to you, then. What did you get out of your re-read..?

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:48 am

The Super Re-Read: Chapters 53 - 56
Part 1 (Chapters 53 and 54)

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Welcome back to The Super Re-Read, one and all - for those of the English-speaking fandom, I think we've passed another landmark, as we've outpaced the English-language Volume release... I'll have to see what I can do about the bits and pieces that typically evade the Digital Releases (like the interstitials and the Bonus Chapters and whatnot), but the Re-Read itself moves on unhindered. We've moved onto looking at the Chapters that make up Volume 12 of Dragon Ball Super, where Moro's gang of chumps manage to stumble onto Earth, where Earth's warriors give them a rough ride - and bring the attention of Moro - while off in Space, Goku and Vegeta's training continues...

As ever, credit and thanks are due to Kanzenshuu and its various contributors for the wealth of information they've built up that we can access, particularly the Translations Archive, the website Guides, and Herms's Guides on the forum. The Super Re-Read would be a good deal less 'Super' without these reference materials.

Well, for most of you I can't tell you to grab your manga anymore - but join me for the Re-Read in any case, won't you..?:

Chapter 53 - Saganbo’s Galactic Bandit Brigade/Saganbo’s Galactic Bandit Brigade
21 October 2019
Chapter Notes
  • We open with only Kuririn having the free time to come and help. Gohan has been busy with College stuff before (as in 超 #7), in keeping with his focus on academic pursuits generally (as he will be years later, as in DB #517 - and, I fancy, Toyotarou probably has his own depiction of a Gohan overburdened by a pile of college work, from DBAF #1 somewhere in the back of his mind, for this stuff); the impossibility of contacting or finding Tenshinhan has come up before, too (in DB #426), but his lack of a phone plays up the ultra-serious hermit vibe he's been cultivating, I guess. And we get the latest instalment in the eternal teasing of Yamcha (finally laid to rest in 超 #56).
  • The Macarenis are detained in what appears to be a giant bird cage. I don't think this references anything in particular, but the style is very in keeping with the Sanctuary's aesthetic generally. Pasta mentions that when it comes to Moro, "It's obey or be killed - no third option", which I think dovetails with what we've seen to make some of the better character work done in this arc, when it comes to the Bandits. The Macarenis are petty, two-bit scumbags, but their characterisation lines up with Moro's own character throughline as an Apex Predator - just like when actual predators come to feed in the real world, a bunch of bottom-feeding creatures likewise tend to benefit from the carnage; in this case, the Macarenis hope to get their chance to snag Earth's Blue Aurum, under the (depressingly comprehensible) rationale of self-serving opportunists, quietly looking out for themselves (they clearly don't have Moro's objectives at heart as such, hence them selling him a line about Planet Jung; this is why Shimorekka looks to kill them shortly); their dragging Moro to Earth is as much out of a self-preservation instinct, and petty spite, as anything, but their intention is simply to float in the wake of the chaos and destruction Moro leaves, to have their own chance to 'feed' after the frenzy. Given that their alignment and characterisation has been better worked-out than most of the Bandit Brigade by this point (and in some cases at any point), it's something of a shame that they get dropped here in favour of these other, flatter characters - I feel like going 'all in' on this thematic alignment might have worked better than the shift of focus we presently get.
  • OG73-I refers to Earth as "Planet 4032 Green-877", which is how Whis refers to it in Battle of Gods; I guess this is the accepted Universal designation for Earth (and generally other planets, according to this basic schema). OG73-I also notes Earth is the "third planet from its star" - which indicates that, despite the different continental arrangement of Earth, and the continuing absence of the Moon since DB #208 (Dende should really get on that – though perhaps he doesn’t know that he should?), Dragon Ball Earth's Solar System is basically the same as in the real world (recall that Jupiter also exists in Dragon World: DB #246). OG73-I also locates Earth in the Northern "Sector" of space, which I suppose we've known since whenever it was we found out that Kaio-Sama was responsible for the Northern part of Universe 7 (worth checking out Kanzenshuu's Gods and Cosmos Guide for more on that).
  • OG73-I notes that his data comes from before the Bandit Brigade were captured by the Galactic Patrol. I don't think we get any clearer indication of how long the group were in prison for (though they were captured by Merus, but as I noted in a previous instalment, it also isn't clear how long he's been with the Galactic Patrol); the data that Earth is of "little value" seems to echo Bardock's statement from DBminus, but this probably doesn't indicate when the Brigade were captured: just how out-of-date the data is (and Yunba's conclusion that it won't have anything tasty is a clear gag, since a great deal has been made of how divinely tasty everything on Earth really is). One might suppose that they've been locked up for perhaps a few years, but the youthful look of the trio of Miza, Iwaza and Kikaza, and the fact that OG73-I is still highly sought-after by his creators (as of 超 #67), points to it probably not being anything like decades.
  • I enjoy the gag that Jaco agrees Earth will be just fine, as he tries to make his exit. And Bulma's intervention makes the whole thing suitably undignified.
  • I do quite like the scene of OG73-I taking on the porcupine/hedgehog race and demonstrating his copy ability. I guess it's quite effective to have it demonstrated by using something so visual (the quills) the first time around, though it's odd that the quills seem to be grown from his prison jumpsuit, rather than his body as such: the jumpsuit isn't punctured by them. The way in which the quills flop forward for firing is a little bit awkward-looking, too. Having the display interspersed with Jaco's explanation is quite well-structured; I've mentioned that this stint of the arc really goes in for showing us what's being done while characters talk about it, but here, at least, I think it's understandable, given how crucial this particular ability is going to be for the rest of the arc. Of course, it's a new way for the story to present the same theme of Stealing, as OG73-I steals abilities to use them against people who worked hard to earn them (or who were given them by nature); he'll do this against Piccolo in this Chapter, he'll reveal he's got Moro's energy-stealing magic in 超 #54, he'll steal both Gohan and Piccolo's moves in 超 #56, and Moro will, in turn, steal his abilities in 超 #61 - this will prove his downfall, when he steals a power he can't handle (because he didn't work to earn it), in 超 #65.
  • In the context of the arc, we get what is at first glance a pretty bizarre piece of plotting (again, it's 'elliptical' in nature, moving forward only to execute a loop back to where it started) - we get an unexpected immediate shortcut to the confrontation now, rather than "in 10 days", in order that it can be delayed by 2 months (in 超 #54) and we can do it all over again (in 超 #56-57). This is probably the most egregious example of dragging things out beyond necessity in the arc; frankly, it could've been structured some other way if giving Goku and Vegeta a 'credible' amount of training time is the only issue at play here (and the plot certainly could've 'front-loaded' the time they needed for that, anyway). I suppose one could argue that this will give us what looks like a typical hackneyed 'villain giving the opponents a chance to ruin his plans'-style beat in 超 #54 (when Moro is led into this by his own desire for a good meal), only to subvert that by revealing that Moro has gorged himself in the meantime and so is too strong for that outcome, in 超 #59-60. But if so, I don't think the pay-off fits the intention, as it lands without any real shock-factor, being telegraphed over the whole of the Second Act as it is. It also doesn't really set up any challenges that are obviously overcome in a way that justifies the delay, either - Kuririn struggles with Yunba now, trains for 2 months, and...struggles with him again, barely pulling out the win; Gohan and Piccolo struggle with OG73-I's copy power, but overcome it by means of their unique combination - which they could've plausibly done without the need for 2 months of training (Gohan says in 超 #54 that he knows all of Piccolo's moves anyway); OG73-I's ownership of Moro's power pulls out the win for the Bandits right now, but the answer is...to give #17 and #18 a call, which could've conceivably been done by Bulma now, too. It's hard to see any real benefit to this plot manoeuvre - it manages to build tension and narrative momentum by unexpectedly moving up the confrontation to a point where the heroes aren't ready for it, but then lets it go completely slack, which is a real shame - with a bit of re-structuring, that particular decision could've actually been a pretty good one. I have an inkling as to what all this might be about, which I'll get to a bit later.
  • "No killing allowed in the Sanctuary." Except when Majin Buu does it, I guess (DB #488 and DB #493). All readers are invited to come up with other things that may not be allowed in the Sanctuary (I assume blasphemy is high up the list) - Ball Games and Dogs definitely are allowed, though (see 超 #7 and DB #517, respectively).
  • It's left a little ambiguous as to whether OG73-I gets the drop on Piccolo with his own power, or whether zipping in behind him with super-speed is a porcupine-person's ability. It's pretty clear it's not a warp portal, though, as 超 #54 shows that one inscribes a circle in the air to do this, so it's just super-speed trickery while Piccolo is distracted. OG73-I follows up with the first Makankosappo in forever (unless you want to argue that Piccolo's beam at Nappa in DB #218 is a two-handed Makankosappo, then it's the first time we've seen it since its introduction, in DB #201-204). Along with the panel where he fires it off being my favourite art in an otherwise fairly unspectacular issue, the aftermath also serves as a visual reference to DB #488, where Super Buu blasts a hole through the Sanctuary at Piccolo's feet.
  • I quite enjoy the offhand expansion of the explanations of what it is that OG73-I can do generally, from copying abilities, to those abilities being as strong as the originals, to him having infinite stamina into the bargain (so walling him by mirroring isn't an option), to him being able to store the powers of up to 3 targets at once, as though the creeping threat somehow doesn't represent an urgently relevant portent of doom. In fact, I quite like the beats of Jaco and Piccolo forgetting to tell each other relevant information generally, and the fact that they take turns at being unimpressed to find these things out (Piccolo not telling Jaco that Moro has been informed, Jaco not telling Piccolo he can fly, or the extra important details about OG73-I's powers) - with their reactions, it's a competently-executed two-hander running gag. The fight’s okay, too, if a little bit perfunctory: one among many such, really.
  • Since we'll be seeing a lot more of it in the coming Chapters, it's probably a good idea to look at what OG73-I's Copy Power actually seems to do:
    • First off, Jaco makes clear in 超 #53 that OG73-I's power copies "abilities", or "moves". The duration of active use is 30 minutes, after which access to the abilities run out and OG73-I would have to copy the target again to be able to use the abilities. If not actively used, access to the powers can be sustained indefinitely.
    • OG73-I can store up to 3 people's abilities at a time ("in stock"), and switch between them as desired or directed (超 #54). However, he cannot combine abilities - he can only use one at a time (超 #56).
    • The copied abilities are as strong/effective as if used by the original user - this includes "moves" like punches and kicks (超 #53), but also 'special' moves like the Makankosappo or Moro's energy-stealing magic; it follows that a punch copied by a stronger target will be stronger than one copied from a weaker target (in 超 #54, Shimorekka sees Gohan is more powerful than Piccolo, and concludes OG73-I should've copied him instead); if the target becomes stronger (e.g. through training), OG73-I copying the powers simply matches this 'new normal' (超 #56). Piccolo thinks of it as fighting "an exact copy of myself", but it turns out in 超 #53 that this isn't actually true, as OG73-I retains such characteristics as his own infinite stamina.
    • However, it is not apparent that OG73-I actually becomes as powerful as the target whose moves he copies - while OG73-I might gain attacks that are as powerful as Gohan's or Moro's, he doesn't appear to actually become as powerful as them. This is indicated by the fact that Android #17 thinks OG73-I is "pretty weak" even when he is using Moro's moveset. This is important because intrinsic Battle Power in Dragon Ball is responsible for other capacities, such as speed, perception and durability. If OG73-I is just copying 'moves' and remaining as powerful intrinsically as he otherwise would be, then this explains how he is outclassed by both Gohan when using Gohan's own powers, and by #17 when using Moro's powers.
    • OG73-I can also generate a "complete backup" of a target, which includes "combat abilities" (intrinsic power), as he does for Moro's own use in 超 #61. Moro indicates that this is a special, untypical arrangement which enables him to 'save' his own power for re-use when he consumes OG73-I (after he loses his stolen power thanks to Vegeta). Moro indicates in 超 #54 that this "backup" is created by multiple applications of Copy Power ("I don't like my neck getting touched all the time"), and if the copied abilities are used beyond 30 minutes by OG73-I, it seems that the "back-up" would disappear with it ("Does this have a time limit as well?" "Yes. Which is why they gotta end this quick."). However, once integrated with Moro, the "back-up" remains permanently.
    • When OG73-I is integrated with Moro, the powers he had "in stock" are likewise permanently accessible to Moro. This may or may not also be true of powers he copies after this integration (such as Vegeta's, in 超 #62).
    • Destruction of an OG soldier's central 'jewel' apparently kills them outright (超 #66 and 超 #67).
    I guess we could also talk about what happens once Merus's Ultra Instinct gets copied by Moro and its implications, but that seems like a special case that would be better to treat in the Chapter Notes for 超 #65. Suffice to say that Ultra Instinct is a move, so Moro uses it to the same level as Merus can, albeit with unforeseen consequences.
  • I think it's a little weird for a move like the Makankosappo to be part of a Kamehameha-esque beam struggle, but okay. It's also kinda neat that when it drills on by, it impacts Jaco's fight with Shimorekka by drilling through the rock they're standing on.
  • We get the statement that, after Goku and Vegeta, Gohan is the strongest warrior on Earth. Given the fact that we're probably only a little over 2 months after the Tournament of Power here, this probably also has implications for Gohan's relative placement among the team then (i.e., he's stronger than Android #17 now, and was stronger than him then - but he's weaker than SSjB Goku or Vegeta now, and was so then, too.
  • Finally, we get the little tidbit that Goku spent 150 days balancing his Body and Spirit on Yardrat during his year out in space. He only learned to use Shunkan Idou after "a whole lot of work" (DB #336), and that was "the most fundamental basics" (超 #55). He was presumably in the middle of specifically this "balancing" part of his training when Porunga tried to drag him back to Earth in DB #329 (130 days after the battle on Namek) - one gets a mental image of Goku perched up on the spires of Yardrat, trying to concentrate on balancing his ki, while Porunga annoys him by tapping him on the shoulder and asking him if he wants to come home...
Chapter 54 - Gohan vs Seven-Three/Son Gohan vs. Seven-Three
21 November 2019
Chapter Notes
  • Favourite Art: We dive right into a strong candidate with Gohan's opening punch on OG73-I, bursting out of the panel as it does. In fact, this Chapter does a good job of making Gohan look pretty cool generally - another contender is Gohan's diving kick on the giant OG73-I, and Gohan unleashing his Kamehameha. For me, all the options are Gohan-centric, and they're pretty much all deliberate impact shots. As an aside, I enjoy Gohan's personal style (before Piccolo changes his clothes) - though I can't endorse the specific choice of light colours, I'm very much about Nehru-collar shirts and waistcoats, myself (if you'd like to have a mental image of a giant nipple in a waistcoat).
  • At this point, we're getting well towards OG73-I having greater reliance on Piccolo's techniques than Piccolo does. We get a very close visual reference to Piccolo's move against Android #17 from DB #367 (widely known as "Hellzone Grenade" thanks to the Budokai series of games, but simply called a "Guided Scattering Ki Blast" in Daizenshuu #7) - right down to the specific shape of the explosion, which matches the original. We also get gigantification, which is a Piccolo technique from DB #186-187 - though Gohan's "familiarity" with such a technique is questionable, I suppose it may refer to Gohan briefly confronting Vegeta as an Oozaru (DB #235), though he never fought him, or perhaps to his own experiences as an Oozaru (DB #208 and #240), though he wouldn't have remembered it - he's fought technically oversized foes hand-to-hand before, like Freeza in DB #297 or Cell in DB #411, but no-one of OG73-I's size, so it's hard to know what exactly he's referring to here. We also get yet more stretchy arms from OG73-I, about which there's little else to say other than that it’s drawn with gusto every time we see it.
  • I like that Gohan essentially cuts through the fight with some fairly direct and efficient use of pure power (like the 'finger-gun' into OG73-I's back); it's generally pretty fun to watch, and one might imagine that Toyotarou has learned from the 'skipping' of Gohan's fight with Kefla in 超 #39. However, I guess the fact that OG73-I is no match at all for Gohan sort of takes the shine off of things - this fight doesn't at all have the narrative significance of his fight with Kefla, or the same kind of tension, and despite the enjoyable leavening presence of a 'set-piece' fight in the Second Act (and any enjoyment one might personally get from seeing Gohan perform well), I don't think the reader can ever really forget that the fight itself does little more than mark time.
  • The "stock" revelation is pretty effective in the moment, though, as is the fact that OG73-I has specifically copied Moro's abilities. In the broader sweep of things, this basically makes him a Moro surrogate, so I guess it reinforces the threat of Moro's abilities anywhere and everywhere they appear - though we already know that well enough, too. Again, I guess the things Moro "gives" his underlings, which assist them in their task of "stealing" (simply power to most of them, and powers to OG73-I specifically), make them into genuine threats beyond their own capacities. This will come home to roost in 超 #58 and 超 #65, respectively, but right now, the arc is still serving it up as an insuperable problem.
  • I like Moro's casual, almost sulky pettiness when he says "I don't like my neck getting touched all the time". I feel like Moro could've done with a little more of this sort of thing, just to leaven his characterisation slightly.
  • I think this is the first and only time we actually see a Metalman speak in the series (beyond “Po Po Po”, or something to that effect) - Bikkura Quoitur says (wait for it): "Sure."
  • Saganbo orders Shimorekka to "switch to monitor mode". We see a panorama of the whole battlefield broadcast as a 3-D projection in the centre of the Command Deck, which is pretty cool and Star Wars-y. The Chapter reveals later that the walkie-talkie used by the Bandits can split in half, which reveals that the upper half contains a camera. The upper half also contains some sort of levitation technology that allows it to hover aloft and survey its surroundings, while also retaining its transceiver functions.
  • Moro is familiar with Earth, saying that 10 million years ago it was "a planet of mere Monkeys". If Dragon World's Earth is supposed to track with real-world Earth in this respect, Moro would be familiar with various Monkeys, and with both Lesser Apes and Great Apes (both having diverged from each other about 5 million years previously); but probably not Hominins and Gorillas, the divergence of which would have been in progress at that point (let alone the emergence of Bipedal Apes, which would be still later). Moro notes "They've evolved quite a bit since then": that may be a deliberate irony, given that Moro will lament being defeated "by a tribe that only emerged a few million years ago" in 超 #65 - the (much more obviously Monkey-like) Saiyans. It's worth noting that Moro also demonstrates familiarity with pigs (he describes Buu as "piggish" in 超 #49), though Pigs were not domesticated until the Human era. Perhaps he's familiar with the Universe 7 versions of Dr. Rota's species...
  • Saganbo's ship appears to be on a planet inhabited by a Caterpillar race - this may be a reference to South Kaio's fighter, Kyatapi, from the Anime-only Annoyichi Budokai.
  • Piccolo and Kuririn's comments about Goku and Vegeta training to defeat the enemy, and managing to earn some extra time from it, seems a deliberate callback to the Saiyan arc, where they manage to get Vegeta and Nappa to wait for Goku to show up, in DB #219 (the characters involved are the same, too: Piccolo, Kuririn, and Gohan, but also Jaco, in keeping with the unique features of this arc); in fact, the Earth-based segment of the arc seems to advance through Dragon Ball's original story from now on, deploying a number of 'moments' at various significant plot points. In this case, it sort of merges with the idea of 'outer-space invasion at a predetermined point which Earth's warriors have to prepare for' that sat at the heart of the Saiyan arc (DB #204-213), which also will end up including all of the Earth warriors who showed up for that confrontation (DB #214; compare with 超 #56, which will add Roshi, Jaco, and the Galactic Patrol to the roster, but will include all of the original set of fighters). I've already critiqued the elliptic nature of this particular plotting decision above, since it stops action-in-progress only to repeat it in a couple of Chapters, which drags out the pacing of the arc even further. But when viewed from the perspective of the sub-structural beats being responsible for the general drift of the arc from this point (but especially in the Final Act), it at least becomes intelligible.
  • Moro, for all his insatiability, actually decides to moderate his appetites to a degree here, as he agrees to wait in order to get a better meal later. But there's no sense that Moro husbands the "livestock" that grace his "plate" - he could've pursued a more 'vampiric' strategy of repeated visits to keep stealing energy, but leaving its holders alive to recover in order to secure a permanent set of satisfying meals for the future. Moro isn't interested in doing that - as mentioned before, he's an Apex Predator - a shark doesn't leave its prey to recover; it attacks it, eats it, and moves on. It's not there to eat again, but it was nice while it lasted; Moro's doing what he does, and enjoying his food while he consumes it. I suppose one could venture an instructive comparison with another series from the 'Galactic Patrol' canon - Jiya. The fallen Galactic Patrolman Sutesu takes over the body of "Vamp", a vampiric monster who sucks the blood of his prey (though not to death) - particularly beautiful young women. Intoxicated by the feeling of pleasure Vamp gets when he does this, Sutesu is corrupted into bringing giant alien fleas to Earth, as he gains the twin pleasures of sucking blood and killing off Earthlings - he's introduced killing off a whole city in Jiya #1, and it's stated then that he also kills his female victims. Like Sutesu, Moro's appetites are such that there isn't any thought given to moderation or husbandry - only to gratification on a grand scale (though they come at it from two different directions). Of course, giving the Earthlings more time does give Moro a prospect of a bigger, better meal, but it also gives Earth's warriors (particularly Goku and Vegeta) the wherewithal to resist.
  • We get another exotic increment of time (the last increment was the "Ment", in 超 #50, which appears to be the increment of time between when the Galactic Patrol should have known about something and the point at which they actually do) - this time, Galactic Cycles. We seem to be in Galactic Cycle 6, 20 days away from the onset of Galactic Cycle 7. Jaco haggles the Bandit Brigade's return up to Galactic Cycle 8, which gives Earth 2 months. This would indicate that a Galactic Cycle (if a consistent measurement of time) is about 40 Earth Days.
  • It's worth noting that this is an early (and small) way in which the theme of Earning rises to challenge the theme of Stealing, as Jaco's intervention buys the heroes more time than they would've otherwise had to prepare for Moro's return.
  • Jaco voices his desire to see the Anime Movie that comes out "next month" - this isn't a Dragon Ball Reference (the last such movie was obviously Dragon Ball Super: Broly, which came out almost a year prior to the publication of this Chapter); this is probably riffing on the same kind of joke as came up in Jaco #3 ("I need to return the movie I rented by next break!"), as this arc uses jokes that riff on the original gags that popped up in Jaco the Galactic Patrolman quite a bit - either that, or Jaco is a fan of My Hero Academia.
  • And finally, after the obvious hint that Merus is an Angel, the story wisely decides to make this an active plot point going into the next Chapter. As for the chat between The Grand Priest and Whis, I think it's interesting that Whis feels shame that his Universe isn't all it should be - he didn't seem particularly put out by its low Mortal Level in 超 #30, though maybe he speaks by convention rather than genuine feeling here. I've already mentioned my thoughts on Whis's actions vis-a-vis Beerus, but I think Whis treads an interesting line in this arc generally, since he ostentatiously maintains his neutrality in such a way that nevertheless secures a happy ending for (almost) all his allies, by drawing The Grand Priest's attention to these issues now. Along with a look at Merus's arc, however, this might be best saved for next time.
Okay, that's all for Part 1 of this instalment - Part 2 comes at the end of the week, as per usual!

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by pepd » Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:46 pm

I stopped the re-read at the end of ToP, but I'm glad you are still going, I will read the threat in detail in parallel with my next Moro re-read. Sorry I didn't participated much, but usually you are The Undying cover most of what I would have to say.

I know we are way past ToP, but I would like to point a big problem I haven't seen mentioned about the generic ToP fighters. Surely the role they have on the manga leaves more space to the imagination instead of setting them as the bland and generic character they seem to be like in the anime, and there are even a few tweaks in design; but the thing is, they are there, they are not just missed opportunities, but misused ones, these characters are the interesting beings of the other universes.

E: I see The Undying is banned for Alternate Account, what happened? Is he still in the forum?

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:12 pm

pepd wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:46 pm I stopped the re-read at the end of ToP, but I'm glad you are still going, I will read the threat in detail in parallel with my next Moro re-read. Sorry I didn't participated much, but usually you are The Undying cover most of what I would have to say.
Thanks for your post! As long as you're reading and enjoying The Super Re-Read, that's cool with me (and I hope you enjoy it when you re-read the Moro arc again) - I don't intend to make anyone feel obliged to make a contribution (except myself, naturally), though of course I'm always interested in seeing them.
pepd wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:46 pmE: I see The Undying is banned for Alternate Account, what happened? Is he still in the forum?
Yeah, I noticed that the other week - it's a pity, for sure, as I always enjoyed reading his insights more generally. I have no idea what was the specific trigger for it, or whether there's scope for a return in some way (though I assume not).
pepd wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:46 pmI know we are way past ToP, but I would like to point a big problem I haven't seen mentioned about the generic ToP fighters. Surely the role they have on the manga leaves more space to the imagination instead of setting them as the bland and generic character they seem to be like in the anime, and there are even a few tweaks in design; but the thing is, they are there, they are not just missed opportunities, but misused ones, these characters are the interesting beings of the other universes.
Sure; it's never too late to discuss any aspect that's gone by, so far as I'm concerned. I mean, we all re-read the manga more than once, right?

My own feeling is that these additional characters serve their purpose well enough, which is basically to be 'set dressing' that makes the overall setting for the arc more plausible, and occasionally to change up the action a little (as with Chapter 36, though I feel it's probably the weakest Chapter of the arc, thanks to its relative 'things are happening' aimlessness; it too served a purpose, but I don't think I'd've wanted to read many more Chapters along those lines).

In storytelling terms, I think knowing what to treat cursorily (or not at all) is as important as deciding what specifically to showcase, and I think the Tournament of Power arc generally makes the right choices in selecting and using only specific characters for any really extensive use in the setting, namely 'our guys' (Universe 7), the main antagonists (Universe 11), and the guys we've basically met before who get in there and mix things up some more with some interesting extra character interactions (Universe 6). Trying to find a niche for all the guys who are accessories to the broader situation at hand isn't necessary, I think, to telling a good story (because I personally think we got one here), and it might well be argued as antithetical to that end. Could they have theoretically been used in a way that does justice to them as characters while not overburdening the story? Perhaps. But it would certainly have been extremely tricky. Trying to introduce more people and getting us to care about them and what they're about, along with the other stuff like how they fit in with the broader themes and purpose of the arc and provide interesting character interactions, requires a pretty substantial investment of material; I can't help but think that something's gotta give if that's pushed. Basically, I think of the story's economical approach here as a plus point rather than a drawback.

Even then, the only Universes I really felt had a genuine 'fodder' feeling through-and-through were Universes 3 and 10 (the latter of which was a focus of the previous arc, so I can't say I feel overly short-changed there; perhaps I might feel Universes 2 and 4 got similar short shrift if it weren't for Chapter 36, so I guess it served some purpose along the lines being discussed). The good news is that these characters are all theoretically still around; to the extent that they can actually support some future interesting story arc, they've already been introduced to some degree, some collectively, and some with particular individuals who might be a hook to leaven the story and provide an interesting jumping-off point.

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:22 am

The Super Re-Read: Chapters 53 - 56
Part 2 (Chapters 55 and 56)

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Hey y'all, welcome back to The Super Re-Read! We're advancing through the rest of Dragon Ball Super Volume 12, which covers the revelation of Merus's true identity (in a Chapter that I think is the main bright spot of this arc's Second Act), and the shifting of the action back to Earth, as the climactic battle between Earth's defenders and the Galactic Patrol against Moro and his gang of bandits gets underway...

As ever, thanks and credit go to Kanzeshuu, its creators and contributors for creating the resources that The Super Re-Read draws on in creating the Chapter Notes for each instalment. Check them out - they're worth your time!

Okay, time to dip back in - let's get re-reading..!

Chapter 55 - Merusu’s True Identity/Merus’s True Identity
21 December 2019
Chapter Notes
  • The Grand Priest discusses the issue of Merus with Whis at the outset, so it's probably as good a place as any to look closely at Merus, his character, and his arc. I think probably the most relevant characteristics are his direct arc characterisation along the lines of Giving, but he also has a (slightly ironic, given that he's a law enforcement officer) character element of being a Troublemaker (as The Grand Priest himself phrases it - or, if you prefer to sharpen the contradiction at the heart of the character, a Lawful Lawbreaker or Lawless Lawman), which makes him fit in quite naturally with people like Goku (and also the rest of the Galactic Patrol bumblers, whom he seemed a world away from but is, surprisingly, more alike than not when judged by his own standards):
    • A Twitter comment drew an interesting comparison between Merus and Zamas as Divine Beings who break the non-interventive norms of their people to mete out "justice" - though Zamas is villainous and Merus is virtuous, so they can be seen to serve as 'mirrors' of each other. This is well-observed, and though I'm not sure it lies at the heart of Merus's character arc, one might also add that both characters are pretending, in their own ways: Zamas is merely pretentious, falsely assuming the status of a Kaioshin (he's also a false Goku in his 'Black' guise; for an exposition of Zamas's thematic 'falseness', check out the Super Re-Read instalment for 超 #17) and so pretending to be more than he is, whereas Merus simply pretends to be less than he is. One might also note that this may come from a divergence of perspective: Zamas was depicted hovering above Mortals, looking down on them from his lofty perch (literally and figuratively) and making superficial judgements from a 'God's Eye View', whereas Merus assumes the role of a Mortal and works among, with, and for them, gaining a 'Worm's Eye View' and so a deeper appreciation.
    • However, in terms of the arc themes, Merus serves as the embodiment of the theme of Giving (including closely-related concepts, such as relinquishing, restitution, and reward), as the personal counterpoint to Goku and Vegeta Earning and Moro and his crew Stealing:
      • Fundamentally, Merus is an extremely privileged character: as an Angel, he is by nature given extraordinary gifts that Mortals (and even other kinds of God) simply don't have. He has natural access to Ultra Instinct (超 #65, but also Beerus mentions Angels are always in that state in 超 #68), mighty Angelic Powers (超 #63-66), and other privileges such as eternal life (超 #67).
      • The Grand Priest mentions in 超 #55 that Merus's time with the Galactic Patrol was meant to give him a broader perspective so that he might be able to perform his (neutral) functions better. However, what is not given to him is the freedom to act as he wishes; it is withheld from him by the same nature that gives him so many of the gifts mentioned above - in 超 #63, he laments that he's "only supposed to sit back and watch", no matter what terrible things may happen, and as Whis mentions in 超 #55, there's no way around Angelic Neutrality - "Such is the nature of the Angel Life-Form".
      • However, it's clear that his time with the Galactic Patrol has given Merus an unintended (in fact, from the perspective of The Grand Priest, undesirable) gift of "A sense of justice" (超 #63). Unlike Zamas, whose sense of 'justice' is his own idiosyncratic concoction, Merus is given a sense of justice that already exists: he internalises Galactic Patrol values, wholesale. Having been given this desire and sense of priorities, it is clear that Merus has used his personal gifts (though not at first to their full, Angelic extent - the creeping in of 'Earning' here is appropriate to playing the part of a Mortal) as a sort of equivalent exchange for being given these values. As a result, he has earned a position of respect and responsibility within the Galactic Patrol (超 #42: he has been given 104 sectors to manage), and has likewise been entrusted with/given custom doodads such as the Moro-capturing device (超 #47), and his own personally-customised space-suit (超 #49), to enhance and make best use of his gifts. We certainly see him do that.
      • In fact, Merus quickly establishes himself as a very 'giving' sort of team-mate - unlike, say, the unwilling Jaco, he's usually first into the breach (超 #43), taking on challenges and risks, and being proactive in assisting his colleagues (such as when he rescues Goku and Vegeta from the edge of Space, in 超 #49, or when he does the same for Dai Kaioshin, or when he protects Irico from Saganbo in 超 #50). More than that, he's "happy to assist" Goku in his rather outlandish request for training (超 #51), and gives him vital information about how Ultra Instinct works (超 #52 - note that he feels bad for having withheld it in the first place). Along this theme, Merus promises Goku that he will "impart (give) all that I have to you" in helping him achieve Ultra Instinct, which will have a wider resonance when he literally gives up his life to give Goku the final push he needs to achieve it, in 超 #63.
      • That Merus resolves to give up (relinquish) his life to see justice done is clear from the ethical conflict he's having in 超 #60, between his given nature and his acquired sense of justice, and the fact that when he acts in 超 #63, he notes that "this next attack is most likely my last", and goes through with it anyway. Appropriately, Shin offers to pay restitution for this Divine life by relinquishing his own as an exchange, in 超 #67, which influences The Grand Priest towards giving Merus a brand new life as a Mortal.
      That, I think, is how Merus fits in with the arc themes - a relentless Giver, who fittingly finds that his giving comes back around as a gift to him in turn. This, however, intersects with his other main character feature - that of Troublemaker (or Lawful Lawbreaker/Lawless Lawman):
      • Merus is, of course, part of the Galactic Patrol, which is a "super elite" law-enforcement agency, so he's a cop. Not only that, he's the best cop ("our number one elite agent", 超 #42), and we see him get down to acting in the service of relatively 'everyday' Galactic law enforcement in 超 #43, when he foils the Macareni Gang's heist (and it becomes clear that he could've done it even without help). In addition, he's helpful, pleasant, and perfectly virtuous. He seems like the ideal law-enforcement agent, and a world away from his bumbling, comical colleagues. One initially wonders how they could be members of the same institution.
      • Merus notes that he has gained a sense of justice from his time in the Galactic Patrol, and he describes his internalisation of the Galactic Patrol’s attitudes and values when talking to Goku about the punitive strategies employed against evildoers - he interprets Goku's giving of multiple opportunities to wrongdoers instinctively as a policy of "reforming", noting that the Patrol takes this approach. He clearly cares about the lawful impact of his work; it’s the way he sees his world now.
      • That said, we first come upon Merus essentially when he's in the middle of committing a crime (kidnapping), no matter how reasonably he tries to explain it. He follows up by assaulting Goku and Vegeta with his stun gun, and kidnapping them too. This is a minor point, but it leads on to greater things as he falls under the influence of the troublemaker (from an Angelic perspective) Son Goku.
      • And more seriously, the arc turns on the fact that Merus violates the only law that Angels actually have, which is the law of Neutrality - while The Grand Priest thought it would be useful for Merus to observe virtuous action, to actively engage in it himself (with his Angelic Powers) is as much a violation of Angelic Law as evildoing would be. From an Angelic perspective, to have imbibed the sense of justice the Galactic Patrol pushes, which ordinary heroes like Goku subscribe to, and which we think of as 'normal', is lawbreaking, on account of its absence of impartiality; The Grand Priest is tempted to impose sanctions on Merus in 超 #55 for his attitudes, even before he actually uses his Angelic Powers. Merus falls into the orbit of a 'bad influence' (heroes) who prod him towards breaking this Law, and this is the fundamental change that comes over Merus - moving from mere sympathy to Angelic action, losing his existence for it, and being quite literally changed by the end of the arc. Merus says quite specifically that his resolve to act in a non-neutral (illegal) way was strengthened "after meeting you and your people, Goku" (超 #63), and Whis notes in 超 #55 that he knows Merus harboured the "egregious" intention of going to do battle with Moro, which he ultimately does, in 超 #62-63.
      • Merus also makes clear, as he vanishes, that he identifies with Goku's seeking of "excitement" in this Universe as a spur to his action - Merus is ultimately a Lawbreaker/Troublemaker from an Angelic perspective, because he is essentially a youthful thrill-seeker. And Universe 7 - the "restless" Universe - is the appropriate place to fall in love with the kind of excitement Goku describes. Whis, as a more mature, totally Neutral Angel, is "ashamed" for it, but Merus loves it, just like Goku does - effectively, he rejoices in his lawlessness. This shows us that actually, he fits right in among his peers in the Galactic Patrol, as he straightforwardly shares their values, and also (when measured by his own standards) he’s a highly flawed example of a Lawman: awkward (as Whis says in 超 #63), incapable (in 超 #68, Whis notes Merus stood at the lowest level of refinement for Ultra Instinct), and troublemaking (as The Grand Priest repeatedly makes clear, thanks to his lack of neutrality).
      • It's also clear that his re-creation as a Mortal Being is meant to be a punishment, of sorts - as The Grand Priest emphasises in 超 #67, he no longer has Angelic Powers, and he now has a finite lifespan. The intervention from Shin takes the character of restitution in a judicial sense as well as in the thematic sense of "giving", which manages to elicit The Grand Priest's clemency (though everyone else is punished into the bargain). But really, Merus-as-Giver and Merus-as-Troublemaker intersect at this point, because while The Grand Priest's ruling is a kind of punishment, there is no sense from Merus that he feels as though he has been punished - rather, he has clearly been given the freedom to act in the way that he always wanted to, in exchange for his own abundant giving (even down to his own life): for this, he gets to act virtuously (illegally) and enjoy the excitement of it for the rest of his life, which was the one thing withheld from him in his privileged life as an Angel. As 'punishments' go, it's as close to a 'reward' as one can get.
      • And that Merus has earned this reward/punishment (complete with an award ceremony to mark his contribution to securing peace in the Galaxy) is a fitting marker for the transition between his Divine and Mortal existences. One is reminded of Kami-Sama's words to Goku in DB #164: "It would not do for any man to begin saying, 'well, if things get bad, God will fix it'. In the end, Earthlings must depend on their own powers to find their way through. Even the Dragon Balls make you prove yourself for your one miracle." Mortals strive to earn their happy endings, they are not handed to them – as one who has done as much as any to earn the happy ending of the Moro arc, Merus proves that he belongs with the Mortals; having given away all that was Divine about himself, he earns what is closest to his heart.
      I think Merus's character arc is generally driven by his characteristics in this way, and I hope that's a convincing enough synthesis of what he's been about in this arc. I do really like Merus as a character, his arc, and the role he plays in the broader arc – he’s one of the best things about it (a pretty uncontroversial take, I know). But that's enough about Merus for now.
  • Some further things from The Grand Priest's chat with Whis should be noted. Firstly, The Grand Priest talks about what "We Angels" can or cannot do. The implication is that The Grand Priest is as bound by the Law of Impartiality as any of his children. It is unsurprising that in Dragon Ball, the mightiest creatures (the Angels) cannot fight (whereas the King of Everything has no need to fight). Secondly, whereas The Grand Priest's statement "Troublemaker or not...I do not wish to lose an Angel" has most naturally been read as a threat (and up to a point, it is), it's also the way out of this for Merus - while Whis is surprised that The Grand Priest would be moved to mercy by restoring Merus, in 超 #67, The Grand Priest simply doesn't want to lose Merus, like he has said here...so, in the end, he decides not to. There's a certain amount of (extremely partial, because familial) 'impartiality' in this, too: the 'impartiality' of a parent with an erring child. Consequences will follow for Merus (and he will be lost as an Angel), but even though he is a wrongdoer (from an Angelic perspective), he is still looked after by his father, no matter what he has done.
  • We learn that Yardrat is beyond Galactic Patrol jurisdiction, so no comms from Galactic Patrol HQ reach out this far. We will learn in 超 #60 that Irico's ship would take 10 days to reach Earth, as opposed to 50 minutes from Galactic Patrol HQ (超 #6), or even the distance of 1 week from New Namek to Yardrat. 超 #46 implies that the distance from Galactic Patrol HQ to New Namek would be something like 3 days, so essentially you can think of the respective distances in a quite linear, additive fashion - New Namek is 100 times further from Galactic Patrol HQ than Earth is (though the Galactic Patrol does operate in this area, as the activity of Kusaya Squad attests), and Yardrat is more than double that.
  • I enjoy the extra scene on Yardrat - particularly, I enjoy Vegeta's puzzlement at Pybara's warning about how he wields his power, followed up by him wielding much more power than he intends. Dragon Ball Super made the turn from a simple escalation of power to the question of how effectively it is wielded in 超 #39, and now it's Vegeta's turn to be the focus of this particular shift of perspective - I think his total shock at his own power sells this pretty well, as Pybara reveals essentially that Vegeta always had this strength in him: it's just that his lack of balance prevented his actual power coming forth, and now he simply doesn't have anything stymying that (to use an analogy, his power was a square peg trying to force its way through a round hole). So, once again, we get the idea that conventional, 'ki-expanding' conceptions of strength are old hat - if Vegeta had detected a significant change in the size of his own power, he wouldn't have been so amazed at what it turns out he can do: what was previously the act of firing off a precise, teeny little finger beam now draws forth a huge attack that engulfs his enemy. This is an elegant way of showing how Vegeta has become "stronger" ("by leaps and bounds", no less) simply by achieving more of a balance within himself. This is a good way of having Vegeta becoming a lot stronger (actually) without necessarily being much different (conventionally), but it's also a nice microcosm of his bigger character arc: Vegeta eschewed the idea of learning anything from anyone, in 超 #40, and his principal focus in life has been himself, and Goku (though Bulma and Trunks have expanded his emotional horizons a bit); in this arc, he's brought into balance, within and without - he actively seeks to earn his own redemption by acting heroically for the Namekians, and swallows his pride (again) in revising something about himself that he'd considered a given. He hasn't changed completely: we saw in 超 #51 that Goku continues to be his ultimate target; his manner with others hasn't changed (such as his brusque demands of Pybara, in this Chapter - though in the end, he thanks him for what he's given him, in 超 #60); he still thinks of himself as a villain (in 超 #61 - not unreasonably, given his past) - but by the end of the arc, Vegeta will 'target' Goku in the way of working specifically to give him the opening (and then the power) he needs to ultimately defeat Moro and save everyone. Vegeta is balanced in a small way now that makes him more than he managed to be by his own devices, which portends a fuller expression.
  • Of all the also-ran nobodies in the Bandit Brigade, I think I like Yuzun the best. He's more obviously characterful than most of the others - probably because he cribs so strongly from an established character in Zarbon, but also because he seems to be more comically expressive than the others, which helps the encounter along. The transformation is an enjoyable little Zarbon callback, too (and the design is sufficiently different, based as it is on a crocodilian aesthetic), so I feel like Toyotarou is enjoying himself in this scene. I certainly enjoy it a good deal more than the other Bandit Brigade fights - though it's really more of a 'beating', I suppose - it clearly doesn't aspire to be a 'set-piece' confrontation, unlike 超 #54, so it comes off better in its lopsidedness than the Gohan-OG73-I fight, for me, and it's less obviously filler-y than the Piccolo-Macareni fight from 超 #52, as it serves as a marker of Vegeta's progress, involving as it does some absurd stuff like his unexpectedly giant finger beam, his deliberately controlled flicking a building away, etc. and so is happening for a clear reason. It doesn't hurt that it has the strongest art in a Chapter that actually spends some time doing other stuff, either. On that note, Favourite art probably goes to the three main 'impact' shots that constitute the beating (the backfist and the two kicks).
  • I like that the signs of Pybara's displeasure come from literally the tiniest frown that could possibly exist, just because of his design. That always gives me a little chuckle.
  • This fight also serves as the first little hint in the narrative that the headlong drive to continue wrongdoing (despite being given opportunities to back down and start making a change) will itself come back on the villains of this piece, and serve as their undoing. Yuzun doing his damnedest to kill Vegeta despite its futility (and ignoring the bald choice Vegeta gives him, between death and surrender) ends up killing him by accident at the end of this scene; Saganbo will refuse Goku's demand to back down and return to prison in 超 #58, instead taking repeated infusions of ki from Moro to try to beat Goku, which ends up killing him; and Moro will refuse Goku's similar attempt to induce the slightest change in his personal trajectory in 超 #65, instead continuing to steal his way to supremacy by taking Merus's Angelic abilities...which he can't handle, and which drives him to inescapable death in 超 #66. I like that this is seeded here, and it's another reason why I think this is probably the best Bandit Brigade outing.
  • I quite like the moment that shows Vegeta is being watched by Moro - having piqued his interest in 超 #54, it's unsurprising that he should check in on how his meal's coming along. It also serves to bring the focus closer to the clash between Vegeta and Moro, as Vegeta Earning his power by his hard work is directly juxtaposed against Moro's demand for more power to Steal - but also the difference between a character who has changed in a significant way is brought into thematic opposition with a villain who essentially reasserts his changelessness here; there will be two payoffs here, as Vegeta's liberation of the power Moro is still busily stealing, by the technique he works hard to learn, allows him to give life back to the Namekians in 超 #61 and set the cap on his personal change, and in 超 #66, Vegeta will shift from unsuccessful attempts at 'stealing from the thief' to giving Goku a willing gift, which resolves the battle.
  • Over in the Room of Spirit and Time, we get the visual hints of Ultra Instinct for Goku (the shreds of clothing in his aura, which likewise appeared in 超 #41), and of Merus's Angelic power (though we know of his status by this point, it's still a fun panel).
  • Whis ostentatiously asserts the need for Angelic Neutrality here. I mentioned before that he almost wields it as a weapon, though perhaps it might be more appropriate to say that it is wielded as a tool to achieve the optimal outcome:
    • Whis deliberately stops The Grand Priest from removing Merus from 'harm's way' by nominally taking him under his care - so, Merus stays tethered to what's going on in Universe 7, even though he goes with Whis to Beerus's planet and remains under his 'supervision'.
    • Whis knows perfectly well what Merus's intentions are: to fight Moro in order to preserve the peace of the Galaxy (and specifically, to help their mutual friend Goku). Although he tells him that this is unacceptable, they then watch the fight together as matters steadily worsen as Whis coyly strings Merus along by vocalising how bad things are getting, only to reassert the line that Angels cannot act on their own, when things are at their most desperate (超 #60). It's also clear that Whis is keeping tabs on Vegeta at the same time, seeing how his training is coming along so that he can play his part (which leads to the restoration of Namek, the Dragon Balls, and consequently the rest of the Universe).
    • Further to this, Whis himself brings Beerus and Merus directly to Earth (in 超 #63, Beerus says Whis told him they were coming to Earth to eat), so it was clearly his decision to hover on the edge of this fateful battle with a sibling whom he knows sympathises strongly with Earth's heroes and wants to get involved. Then, spuriously, he waves away the fact that Merus has become separated from himself and Beerus, despite The Grand Priest's injunction to "Keep a close eye on that one", and is completely noncommittal when Beerus starts expressing qualms.
    • In fact, they delay just long enough in returning to make sure that it's too late to save Merus, and Beerus is clearly right that Whis "knew this would happen". It is highly unlikely that Whis thought, as he claims in 超 #67, that "I certainly did not expect Merus to violate our Angel Laws" - while giving him a veneer of plausible deniability, as he has indeed asserted more than once the need for neutrality, he knows the whole issue turns on what Merus wants to do, and he gives him all the openings he needs to go ahead and do it, while hiding behind the fact that he only acts at Beerus's direction (as a good Neutral Angel should, one supposes).
    • But Whis is also hardly put out by Merus's erasure - in fact, while it seems he didn't know for sure that The Grand Priest would show mercy to Merus, he seems well satisfied by Shin's intervention in 超 #67, as though it was what he had hoped might happen. In the short term, though, it serves as the final push to enable Goku to achieve True Ultra Instinct himself, which is an essential requirement for the heroes being able to save Earth (and also serves as the culmination of the training Goku has been undertaking with both Whis and Merus).
    • Whis also gives Goku the final piece of information he needs to destroy Moro and save Earth. Though he does nothing to make this happen (thus not undertaking "excessive meddling" in the "natural flow of these matters", as he notes in 超 #60) - in a similar way to how he does nothing to actively help Goku save Earth in the natural flow of events in Revival of F - it is clear from his contented smile in 超 #66 that he likewise intended things would turn out this way.
    • So, by deliberately doing nothing to affect the flow of events himself, Whis therefore uses his Neutrality to manoeuvre both Merus and Goku into the right position to save Earth from Moro and (indirectly) achieve the things they've both been striving towards - Ultra Instinct and the rescue of Earth for Goku, a new life where he can act virtuously in pursuit of upholding justice, for Merus, and a 'fixing' of the problems that Moro created overall. Everyone ends up with the best outcome (except for Shin, who made his own free choice here - and of course Beerus, but I've already talked about Whis's relationship to that aspect of things).
    • Appropriately, in paying his penalty along with Shin and Beerus as they play horsey for the Zenos in 超 #67, Whis is not a competitor, but instead impartially bears the stopwatch off on the sidelines. It all comes around.
    So, combining these comments with those I made back in 超 #46, I think it's productive to consider the contrast this points up between Whis and Beerus in this arc, and how they complement and throw each other into relief, as I think that's well-handled: Beerus has all the capacity, right, and duty to act that one could need or want, but is fundamentally too lazy to do anything, whereas Whis is strongly constrained from any kind of directly relevant action, but is busily engaged in the arc by moving all the main actors to do the things they need to do in order to save the day. Merus, of course, acts directly when he cannot, and pays the price; but since he was always going to do that, it's interesting to see the way Whis channels it to the benefit of Universe 7.
Chapter 56 - Warriors of Earth Assemble/Warriors of Earth Assemble
21 January 2020
Chapter Notes
  • I quite like the first comedy beat where Jaco tries to make a show of diligence so he doesn't have to be at the forefront. The composition of this beat is pretty fun, too, with two paired orders and two paired reactions from Jaco, divided by a 'shove' from one of his colleagues.
  • We get a double-spread shot of Earth's heroes, backed up by the Galactic Patrol. We've seen several of them in the background already in this arc, and some of them come from Jaco the Galactic Patrolman originally (including the Patrolman who gives Jaco a shove). Some get their first outing, and may well be references I'm not getting - but one obvious Easter Egg is the patrolman with the head of Stitch (from Disney's Lilo & Stitch - Toyotarou has commented in Volume 8 that he's a big Disney fan). While the number of Patrolmen isn't quite certain from this shot, a later panel will indicate that there are 45 Patrolmen on Earth (47 if you include the pair who deliver Buu to the Heavenly Sanctuary), plus the 7 special recruits from Earth's warriors - Jaco mentioned there were 38 Patrolmen back in Age 737 (almost 45 years ago), in Jaco #2.
  • We get a rare look at some of the far-flung corners of the Earth in this scene:
    • Zauyogi attacks an area of Earth that seems to evidence Islamic design tenets - in particular, the most prominent building bears obvious similarities to architecture developed by the old Mughal Kingdom, such as that found in the Taj Mahal. The spires at the four corners of this building are almost certainly Minarets (used principally for the Call to Prayer), which means that this building may be a Mosque - that is not totally certain, however: the Taj Mahal itself is principally a Mausoleum, but also has a Mosque within the complex (the Minarets that flank the mausoleum were designed to be working rather than decorative); that the building seems to have a fortified base with uniformed soldiers and "treasures" that Zauyogi can demand might indicate that this building is meant principally to be a palace of some sort, but palaces are usually also furnished with places of worship. Since Earth in Dragon World only has one King, this would not be a functioning palace unless for some lesser noble (or, of course, it could be one of the World King's many residences - interestingly, the King Castle is likewise flanked by four towers, as seen in DB #149) - it may simply be an historic palace converted into a Mosque. Either way, the Minarets are (I think) our first concrete indication that Islam exists as a practising religion in Dragon World, alongside Christianity and Buddhism.
    • Bikkura Quoitur seems to go Northward, given the cold climate he ends up in. The castle he assaults seems to bear similarities to "castles" in the real world drawn from German romanticism (such as Neuschwanstein Castle). This castle likewise has uniformed soldiers - stylistically, they seem likewise to evoke military dress from mainland Europe. Their hats appear to bear a medallion not unlike the lion medallion that appears on some of the caps of the guards at King Castle in DB #149-150, so this may be a residence of the World King.
    • Yunba, Miza, Iwaza and Kikaza appear to go to some sort of jungle pyramid temple - in character, it seems broadly Mesoamerican (probably Mayan or Aztec); this may be heightened by the Humans Yunba's busy wailing on - only one appears to wield a firearm, and their headgear and moustaches seem evocative of the sort of Late Nineteenth-Early Twentieth Century archaeologist exemplified by figures such as Alfred Percival Maudslay; they’re probably explorers rather than peacekeepers.
    • The nameless scrubs encountered by Yamcha appear to be in an island metropolis similar to that attacked by the Androids in DB #337-339. The street he fights these goons in appears to be similar to (though not the same as, upon inspection) the site of his Yamcha'ing by Android #20 in DB #338-339. Fortunately, he does rather better against...*checks notes*...these literally nameless goons. Well, as long as the time is well spent.
  • The problematic aspects of Roshi reappear here - while it's unarguable that it has been part of his character since his first appearance in DB #3 (and part of the general gag that since a Sen'nin is an ancient hermit, the ancient-ness of such a figure can be irreverently twisted into the cliché of a dirty old man), the re-emergence of this particular type of gag really wasn't necessary, I’d rather not have seen it here - and it sits particularly badly when placed next to an earnest lecture about the perils of wrongdoing in 超 #57; doubly so when Kame-Sen'nin is chosen to give what is essentially one of the morals of the story. I guess it's the same kind of ambivalence when he's elected to give the 'moral' of Dragon Ball generally in DB #194, and God calls him wise, but Goku adds he's "a bit of a perv, though". Sigh.
  • I guess they found a brand new prison jumpsuit for OG73-I since 超 #54. One wonders why they bothered.
  • We get one of the principal challenges to the theme of Stealing now, as Gohan and Piccolo expose it as inferior to their Earned (because trained on and worked-out together, as Yamcha notes) strategy of "combo moves". This is devised as a counter to OG73-I only being able to switch between each set of stolen powers, while both Gohan and Piccolo are able to use their own at the same time, and to work together in ways that either nullify OG73-I's use of these attacks (e.g. Gohan's shield) or that provide openings of their own (e.g. Piccolo providing ki blasts for Gohan to spring off of and close the distance against OG73-I so that he can attack). This extends as far as joint attacks, and then subbing out for colleagues with unique advantages (the Androids). This shows up this theme of Earning supplanting Stealing, most obviously because it wins out here, but also by pointing out that OG73-I's copy power only duplicates what Piccolo and Gohan have already managed to do ("We'll never lose to some copycat"), and can't cope with anything new that relies on creativity or synergy (such as incomplete attacks that require a second party's contribution). In every instance of the heroes earning a new solution, it takes the villains by surprise because it hasn't occurred to them that the heroes could have done anything that can't be taken from them in turn (like Shimorekka assumes here, but this is also an attitude that goes all the way up to the Big Bad himself, who is caught out by both Forced Spirit Fission and Ultra Instinct). As it turns out, it should have.
  • OG73-I's Makankosappo spins a bunch of different ways in the artwork - sometimes it screws clockwise, and sometimes anti-clockwise. I wouldn't have mentioned it, but I looked harder at it just because I was wondering whether Gohan spinning his shield anti-clockwise had perhaps nullified or even reversed the drilling power of OG73-I's Makankosappo, allowing Piccolo's to gain purchase more readily (Piccolo's Makankosappo only moves clockwise). This is unclear in the art, so I guess it's not the intention here.
  • Speaking of which, the sequence where Gohan uses Piccolo's ki blasts to close the distance on OG73-I and deck him gets my nomination for favourite art in this Chapter. I particularly like the panels where Gohan basically spins upside down to find footing on a passing ki blast, and the three-quarter view of the approach shot, which is very pretty. I don't think ki blasts as such have been used for this purpose before - the closest thing I can think of is Goku firing a Kamehameha from his feet for propulsive purposes while leaving his hands free, in DB #188. It's always nice to see something different.
  • Gohan and Piccolo pull out a fusion of their two signature attacks, making a "Masenkosappo". Presumably the advantage of doing it this way (and the reason OG73-I just stares at it dumbly, not knowing how to respond to it) is that it has the raw power of Gohan's technique, with the peculiar drilling qualities of Piccolo's own attack added to it. Apparently this attack was first featured in the videogame Dragon Ball Z: Supersonic Warriors 2, where team moves were a notable gameplay element. It's also worth reiterating that OG73-I's own design is likely taken from a rejected concept for Shiirasu/Sealas, a Toyotarou-designed videogame character for Super Dragon Ball Heroes. I think there's definitely a place for further investigation as to the potential influence of Dragon Ball's videogames on the modern telling of the main story (what with there also being manga adaptations of videogames as side-stories, such as with Super Dragon Ball Heroes). I also think I'm not the person who'll be undertaking that investigation.
  • The use of the Androids to get around the problem of Moro's power is a cute little bait-and-switch in this particular fight, but after this point they kind of become a loose end. They'll get merked by Saganbo like everyone else in 超 #58, pop in uselessly to try to fend off Moro once Goku loses in 超 #60 (with their own combo move, again taken from a videogame - though, since Moro is actually as strong as Moro, unlike OG73-I, it does nothing), and then get merked again like everyone else in 超 #62. The thing that makes them an asset here (their absence of ki) makes them totally useless for the denouement in 超 #66, which is why they just head back to the Sanctuary with Dende to stand around - so, really, we only get this moment out of them, which seems a little bit wasteful, narratively.
  • I guess this particular issue, ending as it does on the beat of the heroes 'on the up' against the henchmen but with Goku and Vegeta still not able to join in and Moro preparing to get involved, is to heighten the tension to some degree. I still feel that this is very much an over-long way of going about it - this particular move could've been made without opting for a 'reset' of the action between 超 #54 and 超 #56. While training for this outcome fits thematically in terms of Earning a solution to combat the thieves with when they came unstuck before, I don't think it entirely works. Since Moro has hovered around watching some unspectacular fighting in this issue (and a large amount of 超 #57 will also be given over to ancillary activity), we could really have blasted on through with the dynamic of the heroes starting out on the back foot, like we had in 超 #53, but perhaps clawing their way back with these sorts of stratagems - only for Moro to show up now and heighten the peril. Instead, we get him sitting on his hands while the second-string teams duke it out, which doesn't feel highly consequential.
    Indeed, Moro almost vanishes out of sight in this part of the arc - he shows up every so often to show that he's a presence behind it all, and to remind us that he's making his own preparations, but the focus has decisively shifted to his mooks (OG73-I gets a lot of attention, which in retrospect makes sense, but it's not a highly compelling read). Arguably, he's still a threat by proxy because he's responsible for the power(s) these mooks bear, and I assume that's the point - Moro doesn't even need to be present to be a threat to the heroes - but none of his goons really have his presence, so from an 'emotional investment' perspective, I'm not sure this works, logical enough though it may be. And while the Earthling warriors sure are given something of the 'spotlight' they didn't have in the last arc, I don't know that they do enough with it to make this a better plotting choice.
    I feel like this narrative decision has been taken in part to turn over and expose other aspects of the themes at play in this arc - which is interesting in its way, but I don't know that we needed to see pettier thieves steal things in a different way or to have our non-main heroes figure out other ways of earning the win in order to see the distinction between these actions - and also (and more importantly) to start the ball rolling on a growing sense of "culmination" that the arc will build - I've mentioned that I think that one of these culminating strategies being laid down is the deliberate advance through notable story beats from original Dragon Ball as part of the advancement of the plot here, until we get to 'The End' of the arc and of original Dragon Ball (the ‘Level 3 substructure’, as I have called it), which will dovetail with the other structural aspects at play here - Piccolo Daimao and his arc hover over the whole thing generally (‘Level 2’), but moving on from him, we got some clear 'Saiyan arc' beats in a pause for training to meet the threat from space, while the main character(s) are engaged in a race against time to make it back and save the day, since it's clear the Earth's warriors will need them.
    Otherwise, I can't really explain the 'reset' on the action in 超 #54, which started in 超 #52, as a planned plot element that makes much sense - it killed what tension the early confrontation built, and forced the storyline into this repetition, without much to offer for having done so. Ultimately, most of this offering has been stretched beyond its reasonable bounds, but it's not all a waste of time - 超 #55 stands out as the most important and enjoyable Chapter of this arc's Second Act, introducing as it does the dilemma that Merus faces (and on which his personal character arc turns) and the next stage in Vegeta's personal evolution, both in terms of strength and character, which is wrapped up in probably the most enjoyable action of the Act, in his beatdown of Yuzun. In fact, the Yardrat section in this Act has been the most immediately gratifying of its content - having been introduced to the concept of Spirit Control and the 'philosophical' implications that feed into the broader arc themes, the glimpses at Vegeta's training are nice to come back to every so often (even though they aren't particularly substantial in and of themselves).
    So, while this stint of the arc (and much of the Second Act, generally) manages to set up a few important things (mostly with relation to the three main characters: Goku, Vegeta, and Merus - and the emergent secondary villain, OG73-I), it mostly contrives not to do a great deal of consequence. It's not exactly a drudge - it ticks over, and some of it is actually pretty enjoyable, but principally it just gives us more 'stuff' in differing combinations of varying levels of interest and creativity, rather than taking this 'stuff' and opting to do anything really unexpected or vital with it.

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:55 pm

This section of the arc mainly being dedicated to "stuff" is a fairly apt way to put it. I won't lie, it may have all been worth it for the double page spread of the Z-Warriors flanked by the Galactic Patrol. I believe Toyotaro has gone on record saying that he has as much fondness for the recurring background extras in both the Galactic Patrol and Bandit Brigade as he does for the major players, enough to include them on the reverse cover of Volume 13 where they replace all the main characters. While I'd stretch to say there's a wider thematic purpose to the Earth invasion subplot, there may be something to be said about the fact that this arc depicts the closest thing to a fullblown intergalactic war that Dragon Ball has ever provided, and no war is complete without foot soldiers -- including the Z-Warriors, a.k.a. "Earth's Special Forces" ( :sick: ), as the true elite officers that Jaco always strives to be like. I always imagine that the conflict could make for a cool Galactic Patrol vs. Moro Corps themed Chess set with the nameless mooks as kneeling pawns.

I do very much enjoy the pan-global battle for Earth. Nice to see you dissect the different cultures on display. Over time, Dragon Ball's Earthling culture could mainly be boiled down to the opposite extremes of "high-tech, metropolitan, decadent" or "feudal, barren, backwater", ignoring the intricacies like Bora and Upa's Native American culture. I probably would've never though to ask if Islam existed in Dragon Ball but I'm glad Toyotaro answered it anyway.

I agree that the Androids were probably the most wasted of all. After #17's amazing performance in the Tournament of Power and the natural speculation that their physiology would counteract Moro's energy drain, they just get... dropped.

As you noted, there's many inharmonious elements pinched from other Dragon Ball media -- Gohan and Piccolo's video-gamey combination attack (similar to Vegetto's Final Kamehameha, which also debuted in the games), Yamcha returning to his Saiyan arc Kame School gi like in FighterZ (which famously capitalised on his "ironic memetic badass" image and is seemingly referenced here), Roshi's fullblown sexual predator characterisation from the anime, etc. As talented as Toyotaro is at generally remaining faithful to Toriyama's manga in style and tone, I believe there was always this side to him aching to get out. It was there from the beginning with Piccolo's inexplicable fifth finger growth!

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:33 am

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:55 pmAs you noted, there's many inharmonious elements pinched from other Dragon Ball media -- Gohan and Piccolo's video-gamey combination attack (similar to Vegetto's Final Kamehameha, which also debuted in the games), Yamcha returning to his Saiyan arc Kame School gi like in FighterZ (which famously capitalised on his "ironic memetic badass" image and is seemingly referenced here), Roshi's fullblown sexual predator characterisation from the anime, etc. As talented as Toyotaro is at generally remaining faithful to Toriyama's manga in style and tone, I believe there was always this side to him aching to get out. It was there from the beginning with Piccolo's inexplicable fifth finger growth!
Thanks for your post! Yes, I think it would be interesting to see an in-depth examination of how Dragon Ball is...'cannibalising' (for want of a better word) its broader media presence within its mainline storytelling. Obviously the older Movies (Broly is obviously the big one here) and the newer videogames (apart from the videogame-y moves and such, the Dragon Ball Online Yardratian design and the OG73-I design as a cast-off from Super Dragon Ball Heroes are another feature in this arc, so it has moved beyond simple throwaway touches and has moved to more fundamental concept work, in parts) seem to be high up on the list.

The most interesting thing to me is that there certainly seems to be quite a considerable appetite within the fanbase for more of these features to exist in the main story - obviously it differs from fan to fan, but one often sees a number of sentiments to the effect that 'it'd be cool if (x concept/character/design) showed up in Super' (I did a topic on that broad subject some time back, and a number of people wanted to see further features of Dragon Ball Online incorporated). Maybe it's simply the thought that some of these ideas are good, and should receive their 'due'. As I said in the Re-Read, it's interesting to think on (but definitely a thorough job for someone else).

On the subject of The Super Re-Read, I totally forgot that Volume 12 will have Bonus Chapter #7 among its material, so I should have put that in the last post (the perils of not having the Volume Release out in English yet)... So here are my notes, just as a little, late addition:

Bonus Chapter #7, Because I Forgot it Last Time
03 April 2020
  • Basically, this Bonus Chapter explains briefly why, in all of Moro’s Galactic rampage, he didn’t run across Freeza: and the answer is, Freeza chose to stay out of his way and go somewhere else. On that level, there really isn’t anything else to this Comic, but, as with all the Bonus material, it’s an enjoyable little read all the same.
  • Most of the comic’s enjoyableness is, of course, thanks to Freeza and his faux-gentility: rebuking his underlings for their loudness, bridling at Kikono’s suggestion that he’s a criminal like Moro and his goons, his insistence that he’s a legitimate businessman – while Freeza isn’t under any illusions as to whether he’s evil or not (see, e.g., 超 #42), he’s nevertheless adamant that he’s a much better class of scumbag than any common criminal. Vegeta once mocked Freeza’s façade of decorum when it slipped in DB #294, and of course his indulgence in the conceit here isn’t convincing.
  • Freeza knows of Moro by reputation, if not by name – since he has battered the Galactic Patrol before, he's likely to know a certain amount about them and their operations, and therefore it stands to reason that he should know of the Galactic Prison, and perhaps to have heard some rumours of the kind of villains incarcerated there, even if he doesn’t necessarily know any specifics.
  • Berryblue’s contention (and Freeza’s agreement) that what they do isn’t crime, but just business is the clichéd sophistry of all manner of crime lords. But of course, Freeza is based conceptually on the (legitimate, if unsavoury) figure of the Real Estate speculator; it’s just that his Real Estate ‘business model’ is predicated on the idea of exterminating the inhabitants first. Raditz explained this ‘business’ in DB #197 as the activity of the Saiyans (and they have been 'wiping' planets to sell on since before their co-optation into Cold’s/Freeza’s ranks - according to Vegeta III in [iDragon Ball Super: Broly[/i], anyway - though it seems from 超 #69 that this 'change of management' was the spur to doing it regularly, which was not the case beforehand), but as we know, Freeza is the ’Godfather figure’ running the whole “racket”.
  • While the gag is that the difference that Berryblue and Freeza make so much of between themselves and the criminals of this arc is basically spurious (as it all ends up the same), I think there is a distinction to be drawn – possibly along thematic lines – and mostly it’s in the strict depiction of villains in both Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Super. Whatever their other tendencies, I think that the principal vice of villains in original Dragon Ball is that of Murder: since around the appearance of Tao Pai Pai (maybe even a little before that), Dragon Ball villains have been brassy murdering types, which is why they’re bad guys (and they become increasingly monstrous as the series goes on). But in Dragon Ball Super (despite the fact that there is certainly plenty of murder going on with Zamas and Moro), the principal vice on display actually seems to be Theft: even Freeza plays into this in both of his villainous turns, as he (or his subordinates) steal Earth’s Dragon Balls in both Revival of F and Broly; Zamas steals Goku’s body to execute his plans (which is the most obviously striking thing about his method); and Moro’s whole Modus Operandi is based around theft, as should be pretty clear by this point. The Granolah arc is not very far along as of the time of writing, but the Heeters also seem to play into this, as they commission Granolah to steal OG73-I from Goichi, which sparks off the events of the arc. So, while Dragon Ball’s villains tend to be brassy murdering monsters, Dragon Ball Super’s villains tend to be sneaky thieving cowards. It’s not a complete sea-change or mutually exclusive, but might go towards the difference of treatment that some fans perceive when it comes to villains.
  • And finally – Freeza seems to know the Universe Anthem. The Universe is, indeed, huge ;)
Ahh, all up-to-date. Nobody forgot anything, nothing more to see here. *Creeps off, whistling innocuously*

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:14 am

The Super Re-Read: Chapters 57 – 60
Part 1 (Chapters 57 and 58)

Image

Good Time of Day to You, My Fine Fellows, and welcome back to The Super Re-Read! We continue to move through the Dragon Ball Super Manga, and we're into Volume 13 in this instalment - this Volume covers the movement of the action on Earth from Moro's goons against the Dragon Team, graduating up to the battle with the Big Bad himself, as Goku manages to make it back and start off the final battle...

As ever, thanks and credit goes to Kanzenshuu and its contributors for a lot of the information in The Super Re-Read, particularly the Translation Archive. It's a resource that's worth your time to consult at length, as are a number of the information threads Herms made back in the day. Go check 'em out!

Anyhoo, time to dive right in to another Re-Read...

Chapter 57 - Battles Abound/Battles Abound
21 February 2020
Chapter Notes
  • So, this Chapter is titled "Battles Abound", for want of any more narratively coherent encapsulation of what goes on. Indeed, until Moro actually appears in the later part of the Chapter, it's tough to say that there's really anything that can be termed a "narrative" here: it's really more like a rather throwaway Kuririn fight with an off-colour Roshi gag coda, a rather drawn-out Tenshinhan gag, and a 'nice-enough' bit of Roshi action that sits uneasily with what's come before, with a dopey, Ribriane-esque gag coda to round it out before we actually get on with the story. I suppose none of it is an egregious waste of time when taken individually, but the action is perfunctory and the gags are overdone, and taken together at once it's a little grating, especially as the second part of the similarly time-marking 超 #56.
  • Bulma starts out the Chapter by explaining that she's put out drones to monitor the action. We see the first close-up outing of the Pilaf trio since 超 #26, where they get to cheerlead...televisions. Chi-Chi gets to extend the sort of ironic character beat that came up in the Buu arc, where she's actually quite keen to champion the fighting talents of her progeny - particularly Gohan. Unfortunately for her, there's just "The Kuririn Show" - readers are invited to pitch ideas for The Kuririn Show. Note: Only disappointing pitches will be accepted.
  • Kuririn fires out what can only be described as a manga-fied version of the 'Kienzan Hexa-Blade' from the anime (Episode 87, I believe - though only 4 were used then, Goku shamelessly rips it off with 6 to give Jiren a brief moment of discomfiture later on). Six Kienzans do indeed eventually feature, and are controllable in the same way that the anime showed. Kuririn first used the basic Kienzan in DB #221 against Nappa, where it began its history of contriving not to kill its targets. Kuririn has also demonstrated the ability to fire multiple Kienzans at once before, when he launches 4 of them against Freeza in DB #299 (which the first panel generally references), but Freeza was the first to demonstrate some kind of 'homing Kienzan' in the original manga, in DB #325-326. Kuririn has managed to combine all these features together now. I quite like Yunba's response, which plays well into his established 'roly-poly' gimmick to give a couple of nice panels of action in deflecting the Kienzans and give a sort of spinning flurry to deck Kuririn. Ultimately Kuririn wins by a misdirection that allows him to use two old moves from his repertoire: a Zanzouken followed by a Kamehameha.
  • Ultimately, now I think of it, it seems that misdirection, or Hiding Their True Intent, is central to the various Earthling strategies against the invaders:
    • Piccolo and Gohan deliberately allow OG73-I to copy their abilities so that he can only use one set at a time, which they've planned to oppose with their brand new unique combinations;
    • Androids #17 and #18 are the hidden trump cards against the energy-stealing magic of Moro, which OG73-I also attempts to wield (and by which he won in 超 #54);
    • Kuririn misdirects Yunba with his Kienzan 'backstab' combined with a Zanzouken to gain the opening to win his bout; Roshi will demonstrate the unexpected power of his pseudo-Ultra Instinct against the trio (in an inversion, by covering his own eyes so that he isn't misdirected by their looks); the resolution of the fight with Bikkura Quoitur hinges on the less-than-obvious weakness of Metalmen (established in 超 #11), unexpectedly delivered by Chaozu of all people; even Yamcha's successes are related to the idea that "You looked so freakin' weak!" (not his intention, I suppose, but I imagine it links in some way with a thief's eye for what is in plain view rather than what is hidden, which gets its thematic turn in all the clashes on Earth);
    • Vegeta will misdirect Moro in 超 #61 by making out in 超 #60 that their fight will be a simple contest of strength, only for the damage he does (when Moro thinks of him as unthreatening) to completely undo Moro's power.
    Insofar as these individual strategies show the heroes thwarting sneaky thieves by counter-sneakiness (beating them at their own game, though not with a view to theft themselves), I can appreciate these vignettes, to a degree. Goku and Merus buck this trend together, but play into it as well - Goku starts off by hiding his true power (though this is out of necessity rather than an intent to misdirect); as a counter to this, Moro will reveal that he is still (characteristically) Hiding his True Intent by waiting for Goku to run out of steam (and also against Vegeta, by hiding a copy of himself in OG73-I, as seen in 超 #61); and we all know what Merus is hiding. But really, it is a pair of revelations - first Merus and his true nature as an Angel, and then Goku and his True Ultra Instinct - that will turn the battle around, and ultimately, the revelation of Uub's power will end it.
  • At the onset of the fight with Quoitur, we see Chaozu holding out his hands as though he's using his telekinetic powers - perhaps to hold Quoitur in place. Chaozu first used these powers on Kuririn in DB #121, before being undone by the power of mental arithmetic. Of course, there's no guarantee that his powers are actually successful in holding Quoitur in place to give Tenshinhan the opening to strike him - for instance, confronted by Nappa's power, Chaozu states his powers simply don't work in DB #216. However that may be, Tenshinhan's punch causes an impressive echo, but has no effect.
  • Bikkura Quoitur appears to have all the same strengths and weaknesses as Autto Magetta from 超 #11, standing in as a direct analogue of the Universe 6 fighter. But from a design perspective, I vastly prefer Magetta - Quoitur's design is far too top-heavy overall, with a rotund torso sitting atop those matchstick legs. Even if one knew nothing else, one might infer that this is a Toyotarou design because Toriyama tends to have a much surer hand when it comes to machine design (though Metalmen are technically not machines – but you know what I mean). I do like a couple of things about his design, though - one is the cuffs around the fists, which I feel could've done with a matching or complementary feature around the ankles or something; the other is the differentiation of colour in his design (obviously only perceptible in the colour manga), which coincidentally does something to throw the cuffs into relief from the rest of the design.
  • Since we've seen the basic gag around Metalman sensitivity unchanged from from 超 #11, the focus of the gag is really a sort of 'anti-gag' that centres around Tenshinhan's straight-laced earnestness - in this sense, he is incapable of being sufficiently unpleasant to hurt Quoitur's feelings (just like he's incapable of telling a joke sufficient to make Kaio-Sama laugh, as in DB #261) - or, at least, his generic weaksauce 'insults' don't do enough to hit the mark when directed at the specifics of a Metalman. It's not an especially funny gag, but it is at least a different slant on the original gag. Unsurprisingly, some have claimed that Toyotarou is mischaracterising Tenshinhan by the gag, given his villainous past, but really, it's highly unlikely that Toyotarou has forgotten this given that Chaozu's first verbal sally at Quoitur ("Octopus") is directly taken from his first insult at Kuririn (DB #116); moreover, Tenshinhan's insult game from that time really is less than stellar - in the Budokai, he doesn't get beyond "fools" (DB #114), "sluggish" (DB #116), and "imbecile" (DB #130). Given that this is the Budokai where Yamcha starts off by giving Ten the finger (DB #114), it's not a particularly impressive spread of insults. The most insulting he gets is with Piccolo Daimao, for whom Ten manages to raise his game, calling him an "arrogant dog" (DB #153). Overall, one is tempted to agree with Chaozu's appraisal: he sucks at it.
  • The fusion of the 'cute' femme trio into a huge, bulky fighter is a retread of the Ribrianne gag from the anime version of the Tournament of Power (Episode 102, I think) - or else from Original Dragon Ball's Gotenks-centred fusion screw-ups (DB #480), only the fusion is supposed to be this way. On an entirely serious note, it puts them somewhere between 'easily stronger than Kuririn' and 'easily weaker than Base (? Or perhaps Omen?) Goku'. The fusion seems to be made of Iwaza's clothes (and perhaps eyeliner?), Miza's pate-hair (and perhaps eyebrows?), and Kikaza's bunches. Oddly, the fusion has lipstick, which isn't worn by any of the trio.
  • We finally get some advancement of the overall plot when Moro and Saganbo make Planetfall - unsurprisingly, Moro makes a Piccolo Daimao homage in so doing, holding OG73-I's body by the head in a similar way that the Daimao did to Tenshinhan, in DB #159-160. Of course, Moro is not at this point taking a hostage, but rather laying down a Chekhov's Gun in OG73-I's copy power, which will open the way for a new act of Stealing once the battle turns against Moro in 超 #61 - this is a different kind of underhand action, in keeping with Moro's personal penchant for contingency planning. Moro will engineer a couple of hostage situations of his own, though, in both 超 #58 and 超 #65, both of which are pretty unique and enjoyable in different ways, so we'll address them when we get to them. I'd just like to add the note that I enjoy Moro's passive-aggressive "Ahem" here. Oh, and Android #17 just making things super clear by asking if they should really let OG73-I get away. Here's to the Granolah arc, I guess.
  • Saganbo buys into Moro's conceptualisation of everything he encounters as food of some sort when he offers to "cook" the heroes for his ready consumption. While we've come to expect this for Moro, it's interesting for Saganbo to internalise this worldview - perhaps it stems to some extent from the fact that 'Saganbo' is a pun for the same kind of Shark cutlet that 'Moro' is. As a character, Saganbo is (as Vegeta has said) a pathetic nobody on his own, but he seems to nevertheless represent the petty, material facet of the thievery that Moro also represents, complementing his grander scope and theft of the spiritual (life force), and he's 'simpatico' with Moro in this sense. But also, we'll see a character beat for Saganbo in the next Chapter, as he sees Moro as his natural leader who will give him the power to never feel pathetic again - to extend the comparison, he'll be the predator he feels he should be - the alignment gets a visual 'tell' when Saganbo's Prison garb is destroyed in his power-up, to reveal an imitation of Moro's own clothing. That Moro will use him as a hostage and call him "pathetic" in the next Chapter will be a good depiction of Moro's personal villainy (killing his closest confederate and calling it meaningless), but will also be an unwitting judgement on Moro himself - while he's more grandiose than Saganbo, and capable of operating at a higher threat level, he too is just a thief in the end.
  • Moro continues to twist the theme of Giving by enhancing Saganbo's power beyond even Gohan's level (or beyond 'Tournament of Power SSjB-level', if you prefer) using his stolen energy - this isn't new (he did it in 超 #50 already), but it is the most extreme instance so far. In the short term (i.e., for the duration of this encounter), this will give Saganbo an insuperable advantage over Earned power, but the twisted and unnatural application of the theme, with its intimations of 'wrongfulness', will show itself when Moro will continue to give ki to Saganbo until the unearned power ruins and then kills him. This continues the theme that appeared in 超 #55, where the antagonists are undone by their own personal vices and shortcomings, which is a recurring motif in Dragon Ball Super generally.
  • It's also worth noting that this is again something of a Piccolo Daimao arc-inspired (‘Level 2’) beat here, as Piccolo/Moro just goes right ahead and makes an underling who can easily beat the strongest 'also-ran' in Earth's roster: in Piccolo's case, he uses his Demon Powers to literally birth a new underling - Drum - to beat up Tenshinhan in DB #153-154; in Moro's case, he makes Saganbo into the same kind of instrument by using his power. The (necessary) difference between the two instances is of heredity and direct 'gifting', as befits the broader scope of both arcs, but Piccolo's own reaction to Saganbo ("We still have to deal with this one before Moro...?") echoes Tenshinhan's reaction to fighting Drum ("...and he's just an underling...he's not Piccolo Daimao..!"), showing that they're serving pretty much the same plot function. Arguably, there's another Saiyan arc (‘Level 3’) beat, in that Saganbo is also a buff (but weaker of the pair) antagonist who beats around the Dragon Team until Goku shows up and gives him a taste of his own medicine, before the real big bad of the arc actually kills him (thus, obviously, a Nappa dynamic).
  • Favourite Art: There are a few contenders here, including Yunba's spinning flurry on Kuririn, some of Roshi's Pseudo-Ultra Instinct moves, and Android #17's unusual blast-propelled kick on OG73-I: all pretty enough. But I have to say I'm most fond of the panelling on the page where Moro orders Saganbo to start the fight. Toyotarou is often critiqued for his use of too many panels, but I like the way they're arranged here: a big diagonal panel across about a third of the page shows off Saganbo's amped state, a couple of panels in the top quarter give dialogue beats, but then the slash-panel through the centre of the page where Moro gives the command draws the eye and paces the beat before the charging panel really well. It's finished off well at the bottom by another diagonal panel that gives the most space naturally to Android #17, marking him out clearly as Saganbo's initial target. I think the arrangement is very effective - just thought I'd mention something I appreciated that wasn't just 'pretty art', on this occasion.
  • That said, I'm certain I have no idea what the initial action of this fight is about: I have no idea why Saganbo is continuing to run after landing his strike on Android #17 (to use the continuing momentum to push through his guard, perhaps? Is that even a thing?), or what the point of trying to literally hold down Saganbo is, on the part of Earth's warriors. Apart from giving him the opening to grab two of them and swing them around to hit the others, I can't fathom what this action beat is trying to do.
  • And now, Zauyogi gets to be the last of the Bandit Brigade to give us his name, literally 12 pages before Goku shows up and ends him. It's a real weakness of the arc to saturate the narrative with all these nobodies - unlike the Tournament of Power, which presented a ton of fighters but wisely used them essentially as 'set dressing' and focused on the most important personalities (either the main antagonist, or else characters we have seen before), with the occasional judicious use of someone else/new to help things along, in this arc we get a bunch of impact-less introductions for bit-part players who don't even manage to sell the audience 'moments' for our characters (which is ostensibly why they exist as explicitly identified foes, isn’t it?). Zauyogi was introduced in 超 #50 with the rest, didn't even get a name till now, harasses Yamcha and Tenshinhan because apparently that shows he's a big deal in some way, and then just gets tonked by Goku. If there had been a genuinely strong presence (character or otherwise) for all the Bandit Brigade it wouldn't be so grating, but seeing stuff like this, one really has to ask what the point is.
  • As a quick note, I like the varying brightness with which each character's ki is depicted in Goku's senses (for instance, the brightness around Kuririn gets bigger and brighter when he powers up) - a nice little development of the depiction of sensed ki that we were shown in 超 #36.
  • And finally, we end on something of a 'Saiyan arc' note as Goku arrives in the nick of time on the battlefield, and references his habit of showing up late - while he obviously just means 'after the action has started', strictly speaking, the Saiyan arc is the only real time he's 'shown up late', since Kaio-Sama miscalculated when Goku would have to leave to show up on time - both his Namek arrivals were according to schedule; they just happened to coincide with narratively dramatic moments. Goku's arrival moves on the plot to (in my opinion) blend the transition of the Moro arc's culminating plot drivers from Saiyan arc beats to Freeza arc beats, as the focus will begin to shift towards Goku taking on the outrageously powerful evil being with a measure of uncertainty over how strong each of them are, which dominated the early stages of his fight with Freeza, and gave way to a revelation of the huge real gap in power that existed between them. Still, more discussion on that idea when we get there, I guess. It's enough to note that this plotting substructure has moved forward in a small but important way.
Chapter 58 - Son Goku Arrives/Son Goku Arrives
21 March 2020
Chapter Notes
  • Goku starts out the chapter with a brief conversation with Kuririn, in which he speculates on Moro's power (Epic Foreshadowing), and reveals he's excited by the prospect of Moro's terrifying power. This is something of a callback to DB #366, when Kuririn asks Goku if he's scared of a monster stronger than Freeza, or excited, and Goku replies "...Both". Kuririn inferred that Goku still having the desire to fight was a sign of hope - now, Goku being "Super excited!!" is simply reassurance that despite everything, he hasn't changed - which, as a character beat, is thematic in this arc: neither Goku nor Moro change at any point, all appearances to the contrary. Goku has been stated only to care about "fighting an opponent worthy of him" since DB #188, and the unexpected feeling of excitement at a terrifyingly powerful foe was established as a hereditary Saiyan quirk in his fight with Vegeta, in DB #228-229. Goku then sets about demonstrating that he hasn't changed in the sense that he's also astoundingly strong: having taken out the fused femmes in a single hit at the end of the last Chapter, he pops into the fight with Zauyogi and ends him in a single hit - as Yamcha says, "Some things never change."
  • Back in the fight with Saganbo, Android #18 is holding her arm - presumably it's damaged, but strictly speaking she shouldn't feel it, even if it is the case: DB #341 established that Gero's androids neither feel pain nor fatigue, and Vegeta twice expresses frustration at this in #18's specific case, in DB #352-353.
  • The use of two natural pairings on the hero team - possibly the two best-established pairings in Dragon Ball (Gohan and Piccolo; Androids #17 and #18) - to show the limits of the heroic counter-strategies when confronted by Moro's overwhelming power (even when wielded in a more limited way by his underling), is smartly done. Unlike the Tournament of Power, where slick teamwork acted as an effective force multiplier to keep raw power contained, and the battles with Moro's minor goons, where stratagems of this sort baffled unimaginative thievery, here Saganbo's stolen power suffices to simply wade through all resistance with relative ease. Synchronicity and tight teamwork - in that sense, at least - aren't the answer this time. This will be re-emphasised in 超 #60, when the Androids' combination attacks do literally nothing to Moro, except amuse him.
  • We get an actual (brief) character beat for Saganbo, which further develops the twisted notion of Giving that stands at the heart of his relationship with Moro, and what it means for their mutual goal of Stealing; moreover, it reinforces the complementarity of Saganbo's petty attempts at playing the 'big fish' with the smallness of Moro's own character: he manifests overtly what Moro is also like, with this exchange. Saganbo reveals that he follows Moro because of the things Moro has given him: his freedom from imprisonment, and the power he now wields (though it belongs to neither of them, which is another connection). So, in a twisted reciprocation, Saganbo gives Moro his unquestioning loyalty, whatever the cost. Of course, Moro hardly values it, and Jaco makes the important counter-point, however bluntly, that in making this exchange of ill-gotten gifts (loyalty for power), Saganbo has surrendered something that he shouldn't have given up: his pride. The attempt to escape "feeling pathetic" at his rightful incarceration by this latest desperate grab at taking what isn't his own is just the latest (and final) circling of the drain, and that this needles Saganbo enough that he wants to beat Jaco's mouth shut shows that it is true and he knows it.
  • Goku injects himself unseen into the scene, to beat Saganbo like (a) Drum. Apart from the aforementioned sub-structural links to the Piccolo Daimao and Saiyan arcs, and this being a very easy fight for Goku (even at SSjB), the scene actually does some really interesting additional character work and scenario play: we get a (for Dragon Ball) unique twist on the 'scumbag villain takes a hostage' trope, only the hostage is the villain's own henchman, and the henchman/hostage connives at it unwittingly, out of a pathetic need to prove (to himself?) that he's still a 'big fish' here. Moro, for his part, earns extra 'scumbag' points for callously using his confederate in this way (and I enjoy his casual little wave when Goku does his heroic 'you're next' bit), but it's also an interesting twist on a personal vice that will be pushed more to the forefront as the arc reaches its climax: Moro is insatiable. In the most obvious sense, Moro cannot be sated by all the planets he has consumed, as he incessantly seeks new and more satisfying meals to gorge on, but here Goku piques his curiosity with his initial demonstration of Ultra Instinct, so Moro instinctively follows his desires by trying to force Goku to show him it again, by twistedly forcing Saganbo (who is, we will see, entirely satiable) to accept further 'gifts' of ki and continue to fight Goku until Moro gets what he wants. That this destroys Saganbo furthers the themes of the arc, since he did not Earn this power, and helps demonstrate the corrupting nature of this twisted, stolen gift. I really enjoy the confluence of themes and character work done here - these unite in a nice way to give an enjoyable story beat. It’s by far the best single thing any of the Bandit Brigade are involved in (even considering the enjoyable turn by Yuzun in 超 #55).
  • The fight between SSjB Goku and amped Saganbo is a development of the broader thematic conflict between Earned and Stolen power (in addition to the aforementioned 'hostage' twist element), and it's an enjoyable enough beatdown on its own terms - the initial exchange probably gets my nomination for favourite art in this Chapter; it's a frenetic and unexpectedly vicious piece of action (while Goku doesn't kick people's faces into a mushy goop anymore, his punches here still do some unexpectedly graphic damage), which lands with real impact.
  • Piccolo determines Goku has become a lot stronger than the last time they saw him, presumably just from observation and direct comparison of performance than from sensing his ki - this no doubt solidifies the impression of Saganbo being stronger than all the (non-Jiren) characters from the Tournament of Power. In another sense, it was probably important for Goku to make up some conventional ground on Vegeta given that the manga left his SSjB form implicitly trailing a long way behind Vegeta's SSjBe - Vegeta, in turn, has gained a highly significant capacity to project the power he has (alongside what is probably a moderate conventional strength boost), but since Goku has trained for longer, one might imagine the conventional gap has narrowed somewhat here. We'll see the Blue energy come out again in Goku's Omen aura in 超 #60, which coincides with Goku trying to give himself a conventional power boost. This goes toward my contention from a previous instalment that Ultra Instinct isn't about giving oneself a conventional ki-power boost, but is a parallel and competing conception of ‘strength’.
  • The Chapter ends with Goku facing down Moro by using Omen, which moves the plot along to the 'fateful one-on-one clash' phase, which marks the transition from the Second Act to the Third. While this is probably one of the stronger Chapters, there isn't much else to say about it, so it might be a good time to advance my personal sense of how the themes, character arcs and plot 'substructure' interact here:
    • The villain's arc (specifically Moro's) is basically structured by his primary inspiration, who is Piccolo Daimao (though this is modified by his thematic dedication to Stealing, which defines his character), and draws on the Piccolo Daimao-23rd Budokai cycle (‘Level 2 substructure’), as has already been mentioned. He begins by being released from incarceration by a pathetic former villain, defeats the main hero in an initial encounter and leaves them for dead, gathers the Dragon Balls and has his power restored by his wish, regains his former power and is rejuvenated, creates a bunch of empowered underlings and moves towards realising his goals (though they are still nascent) when he is interrupted by the resistance of the heroes. In the final battle, he is defeated by a decisive blow that unleashes the power of the main hero just after all looked hopeless.
    • The theme of Stealing, turned over to expose various facets of itself, modifies this basic structure - Moro is, at base, a thief, and he gains his power by stealing it from others. His goals involve being able to steal life force more effectively, and forever, and he intends to rule on a Galactic scale to continue stealing (analogous to Piccolo, but not the same as their goals are appropriately different). When his stealing is undone by Vegeta, he steals back his own power from one of his underlings to be reborn as essentially a new version of himself (again analogous to Piccolo's rebirth by means of a duplicate, but born from theft and consumption, as befits Moro). He finally steals something that is too much for him (Ultra Instinct), which ensures his own demise.
    • The heroic arcs are those of Goku, Vegeta, and Merus. They presume upon Earning and Giving as the challenges to the villainous arc, and 'Earning' mostly coincides with the power they train to wield (and I've already covered Merus's personal arc and will cover Vegeta's in the Chapter Notes for 超 #61, as they cover most of the 'Giving' aspect of the arc themes), but Goku's personal arc also incorporates a more extensive culmination of his arc across Dragon Ball Super as a whole, and to help structure this culmination, there is, I think, a (‘Level 3’) sub-structure to the confrontation on Earth that uses Dragon Ball's basic plot beats to achieve this. This works alongside his opposition to Moro's Piccolo Daimao-structured arc and the more general concept of Goku perfecting his Divine Power. Generally, this sub-structure advances chronologically:
    • Initially, the problem presented by the Earthly confrontation takes clear beats from the Saiyan arc, as I've mentioned already - the pause to allow preparation for the threat from space, as Goku speeds back from his training on another world, to arrive in just the nick of time is a Saiyan arc onset; in 超 #58-59 we move onto a high-stakes one-on-one confrontation, which takes on a Freeza arc characterisation as it moves through the gears of Goku doing well in the initial confrontation, an uncertainty over their respective powers and whether Goku can pull off the win, only to find that the villain has a vast amount of unused power that even Goku exceeding his natural bounds cannot do anything to them, and all seems lost. In a true Cell arc beat, Goku himself proceeds to do nothing for much of what follows (except almost die), but Moro transforms by means of 'absorbing' an artificial lifeform (though as I've said, that's also a Piccolo-inspired beat in its own way), and when the time comes for Goku to seize the main spotlight, it's by finally finding the power he has worked on building in the Room of Spirit and Time, as the disembodied head of a dying character begs him to protect what he has grown to love, and the power more than suffices to humble the villain. Finally, in the last beats of the arc, the Buu arc takes over, as the villain gains new power by means of a piece of himself that he left behind, and the gift of power in a Genki Dama-esque technique (the lion's share of the power coming unexpectedly - previously thanks to Satan, now thanks to God) is instrumental to the victory - at the end, we reach the end of original Dragon Ball by having Goku's attention drawn to Uub. I believe that a number of these beats (e.g., Uub’s Divine Power) are seeded disparately in earlier parts of the arc so that they can run in chronological order in the final confrontation.
    • This 'Ultimate' structure of the arc’s resolution, as I've claimed, unites with Goku's overall character goals in Dragon Ball Super by achieving his perfection of Divine Power in True Ultra Instinct (it does this variously by imitation, reference and inversion), and it also unites tidily with his last major character culmination - which was, fittingly, begun in the Piccolo Daimao arc, and completed in his defeat of Piccolo at the 23rd Tenka'ichi Budokai (the ‘Intermediate’ structure). So it's unsurprising that Moro's own character beats, governed by Piccolo's as they are, are destined to dovetail with Goku's own to finally establish this culmination - from significant character and plot beats such as Goku feeding the beaten Moro a Senzu Bean in the hope of securing a rivalry with power that excites him, or the final beat in which Goku gambles everything on putting everything into a decisive blow (complete with the same phrasing as when he did it to Piccolo Daimao) - down to little details, like the precise placement of Goku's chest scar.
    While I want to save some talking points for when we actually get to them, I think that, positioned as we are at the transition between the Second and Third Acts, this was a good place to make the case for what I think the story is doing, and will continue to do, in the Third Act - the interplay of the personal arcs and plot sub-structures detailed above (dynamically re-interpreted through the present arc themes though they are) combine to create what might be called a 'meta-culmination' by harnessing them all to resolve the whole thing. I think this is why fans detected so much that belonged to previous arcs from Dragon Ball in this arc, but also why the arc seemed to end rather more satisfactorily than a lot of people thought (feared?) it might - it's more than simply throwing the fanbase a bone by drafting Uub in to the resolution, but the fact that, just as the Tournament of Power arc drew on the characters who were part of Goku's story to do the things that would resolve the arc, the Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc draws on that story itself to work out this new resolution satisfyingly; it makes an intuitive sense in the reading. That's my basic case, and I'll buttress it with more details as I go forward.
Okey-doke, that's it for Part 1 of this instalment, and it looks like things are on the up - join me for Part 2 at the end of the week, won't you? In the meantime, let us know what you got from your Re-Read...

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:16 am

The Super Re-Read: Chapters 57 - 60
Part 2 (Chapters 59 and 60)

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Welcome back once again, Dear Reader, to The Super Re-Read! We're moving on through the rest of Dragon Ball Super Volume 13 in this instalment, as Goku's battle with Moro begins, and takes a dramatic turn, while Vegeta rushes to perfect the technique that can defeat the menace once and for all, and make it back to Earth in time...

As ever, thanks and credit to the fellows responsible for the information held in Kanzenshuu - The Super Re-Read always takes the Japanese Chapter Titles from the main site, along with the publication dates, and links to the info in the Translation Archive. It also uses the info gathered together by Herms (like any Daizenshuu stuff), so make sure you check it out!

Time to get back to it - here's to another Re-read. Join me, won't you?:

Chapter 59 - Activation! Ultra Instinct “Sign”/Activate -- Ultra Instinct -Sign-
21 April 2020
Chapter Notes
  • Moro has, here as in 超 #59, recognised that Goku is using an ability of inherently divine character - although it can't be sensed, Moro was nevertheless able to determine by some means that Dai Kaioshin lacked his Divine Power of old, in 超 #49 (hence why he knew instinctively that Dai Kaioshin could no longer use the Kai Kai Matoru). Moro has demonstrated a sweeping array of sensory capacities so far, such as being able to determine when he is being searched for (超 #43), feeling the presence of life force throughout the Universe (超 #44), including specific persons (超 #55), sensing the presence of mystical objects such as Dragon Balls (超 #47), and seeing latent memories of others (超 #49). However, he notes in 超 #63 that he cannot feel Merus's Angelic Power, so his ability to determine the presence or absence of Divine Power is perhaps through some sort of nebulous capability like that which Goku demonstrates, in his apprehension of how strong Toppo is despite the fact he acknowledges he can't sense his ki (超 #29).
  • Goku starts out the fight by whipping air-blasts at Moro. The last time he demonstrated this kind of move was in the 23rd Budokai, against Chi-Chi, in DB #171. Whereas there, his strike sent a rather general wall of force at Chi-Chi and carried her out-of-bounds, here his strikes enable pinpoint impacts on Moro's body. But both times, almost nobody could see the action when Goku performed it: in DB #171, Piccolo was able to see it, and noted that it was "a move we Demon-folk use" (probably in reference to DB #150, where Piccolo Daimao destroys part of Central City with a powered-up version of the move, and his much less destructive use of the move in DB #156); not only is the comparison ironic when considering that it's now being used in conjunction with the Divine Power of Ultra Instinct, but now Piccolo cannot catch Goku's movements either. Jaco is just about able to figure out what Goku's doing, but even Moro seems incapable of seeing it.
  • Favourite art: It's a little bit cheaty to say I enjoy the way the fight is drawn as a whole, but this is very much an action-focused Chapter, and it looks it - there's plenty of really pretty impact shots, beginning with Goku's dive from the sky, his follow-up twist-kick, the exchange of gut punches later in the Chapter, and Goku's triple-kick late on. It's interesting to see an instance of Omen taking the fight to an opponent - as opposed to True Ultra Instinct, in 超 #41 - to compare the choreography between the two. Goku's actions in Omen seem visually more 'purposive' and 'frantic' than in True Ultra Instinct (as befits what is essentially an incomplete version of the technique), but a lot of the action is still pleasingly surprising - Goku drives the pace of the fight onward with little things, like the flip over Moro's head, the vanishing out of the Kamehameha to continue the fist fight aloft, and the way he moves to repeat each kick that makes up the aforementioned triple-kick, which gives it a strong frenetic quality that makes sense, but clearly differentiates it from the 'weirder' aesthetic of True Ultra Instinct. I guess overall, I'll nominate the triple-kick for the way it combines the qualities of impact, pace, and surprise.
  • In a beat that ends the preliminaries in a way that seems to line up with the 'Freeza arc-ish' style of this phase of the arc, Moro immobilises Goku with a special paralysing technique and launches him groundward, but Goku escapes at the last moment to land daintily. I don't want to risk confusing the issue by pressing any specific beat or allusion too closely when I'm proposing that the general drift of events in the Final Act of the arc is directed by its plotting sub-structure, and for this phase I'm arguing that it's basically 'Goku 'one-on-ones' the big bad for the fate of the Universe, does markedly well in the exchange until said bad guy gets serious, and then gets tonked even though he pushes himself beyond the limits of his uppermost ordinary capabilities'. But on some level, the proposal does rely on a certain amount of detail cropping up to support it, and it is gratifying to see specific things happen that seem to align well with the general schema proposed. In any case, this also reads very naturally as a tactic Moro would employ to try and inhibit Goku's strengths ("heightened agility") right now.
  • Speaking of Goku's strengths, I think Moro's identification of "heightened agility" as foremost, along with being accurate enough, probably in retrospect puts a finger on what the real difference is between Omen Ultra Instinct and True Ultra Instinct. I've seen fans raise the question of whether Goku's Omen Ultra Instinct here is "stronger" than his True Ultra Instinct in the Tournament of Power (and put a lot of weight on the question of whether Goku is "stronger than ever" as a direct comparison to his last usage of True Ultra Instinct), and I think the question is fundamentally misguided - is Goku more powerful, in the conventional sense, after 6 months of training in the Room of Spirit and Time with an Angel? I should certainly hope so (and he says he is, as does Moro), but it's rather beside the point. I've already mentioned in a previous instalment about what I think Ultra Instinct generally is all about - the increasingly perfectible wielding of power, rather than the mere acquisition of more ki power. But Omen is in incomplete stage of the technique - if you ask whether an incomplete technique can ever beat the completed version (however much ki is put behind it, and even with 超 #68's revelation that there is more to Ultra Instinct than the degree of proficiency Goku attains even in the "True" form), the answer must be 'no'. I think this fight serves to reinforce this position:
    • Goku's speed and agility (and movement in general) are consistently shown as the main things that give Moro trouble now, but nothing much else seems particularly remarkable - compare, for instance, the damage he does to Saganbo in Omen with what he manages in SSjB (his punches to the gut seem to do more-or-less identical damage in each form), and the kind of performance he puts up in Full Power Omen against Moro in 超 #60 seems comparable with when he starts to manifest what looks like Blue energy, too. While Goku doesn't need a transformation to wield an SSjB level of power (and somewhat beyond), it seems, the prime significant difference is in the way his capability of movement is enhanced, and it doesn't seem to be fully translated into all of his movements (as would befit its incompleteness). And when Goku tries to amp his power, Merus makes clear that this gets in the way of what Ultra Instinct can do.
    • Conversely, the strengths of True Ultra Instinct seem very much more than that. Not only is his speed and agility even further enhanced (an even stronger Moro can do nothing to touch him, whereas in 超 #59-60 he could), but the sharpness of his strikes is incomparably greater, his durability can autonomously amp itself, and additionally there isn't a stamina issue (this all seems to be done without effort). Goku credits it to the way his body moves rather than to an upswing in power (if it were, it would’ve been simpler just to say that, so I can only conclude that it avoids doing so because it isn’t the case), and more certainly, when the conventionally stronger Moro copies Merus's Ultra Instinct in 超 #65, he declares that his and Goku's abilities are equal, which indicates that Merus, Goku and Moro all wield Ultra Instinct to the same level - this is supported in 超 #68, when Whis declares his Ultra Instinct to be more refined than Goku's or Merus's.
    It seems to me, therefore, that we're talking about two very different tiers of ability here, the difference between which cannot be characterised (or bridged) in terms of strength as conventionally understood, but in the improved wielding of that strength - which also seems to be the case (speaking tentatively) for the higher degrees of True Ultra Instinct mentioned in 超 #68. Therefore, I would say that Omen Ultra Instinct Goku from 超 #59-60 would basically never beat True Ultra Instinct Goku, even Goku from 超 #41 (who hasn't trained to wield it yet). That isn't to say that Ultra Instinct generally can't be 'out-stronged', of course - just emphasising the fundamental difference in capability between the two stages of the technique (which, to use a probably ill-considered analogy, is like a race between a car when you've just turned the key in the ignition versus a car that's already going at 100 miles-per-hour: the former car may be more powerful, but it's never winning the race).
  • Moro's paralysing ability is one of a number of magical techniques he employs. I've seen claims that Moro trades in magic for brute force in this fight in particular, but he actually uses quite a few techniques here, and also seems to show a strong continuity of approach in the magical powers he uses. Here's a listing, with any previous uses:
    • Paralysing technique (new)
    • Shocking Magic (new to the Dragon Team, but used against the Kaioshin in 超 #43)
    • Illusion magic (超 #49)
    • Psychokinetic grab (超 #44, 46, 47)
    • Energy Absorption Magic (超 #43, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 55)
    • Planetary Energy Geyser (超 #45, 46, 47, 48)
    Moro will continue to use his magic (including a few repeats of the moves listed here), and some interpretations to the contrary, his magic has principally been tied to strengthening him since his introduction in 超 #43, rather than anything more esoteric. Its prevalence will diminish to some degree once he consumes OG73-I and relies on stolen abilities - the next development of this particular theme - but we will see some new magic from Moro even then, with his magical barrier conjured in 超 #62. It's also worth restating that his use of energy absorption here, reliant as it is on targeting and stealing from Goku as it is, has not been 'nerfed' here, but is how it has always been used.
  • Goku hops around and dances through Moro's Shocking Magic while charging a Kamehameha - a clear artistic nod to the Tournament of Power anime moment where he did the same against Kefla. I didn't notice on the first read-through that the magic strikes Saganbo's corpse, disintegrating it (I had glanced over it and thought it was just a rock or something) - it's one last little reminder of the vast gulf between Saganbo's delusion on what teaming up with Moro would net him, and what actually happened to him as a result of this association, as his ashen remains vanish into the ether.
  • Goku noticing that Moro is using an illusion and firing his Kamehameha behind himself is an unusual beat in a couple of ways. Firstly, it catches Moro so off-guard as he emerges from super-speed that he has little option but to catch it instead of eating it, and secondly, the little exchange about Goku recognising the illusion is a bit odd. But maybe that's just a little odd to me as an experience: by the time we'd got to this beat on the first read through, I'd forgotten that Moro had spent several pages trolling Goku and co. with this move in 超 #49, so I'd assumed something more like Goku drawing on his experience of the Zanzouken to perceive this illusion without further hinting. That he isn't tricked by Moro this time is fine, but rather less impressive than my imagination made it.
  • Goku repeats his vanishing mid-fight, thanks to Omen’s speed, in the same way that he came in during the previous Chapter. Of course, this isn’t the first time Goku has managed to vanish and totally erase his presence from the battlefield: he did this a number of times in the 23rd Tenka’ichi Budokai, and quite ostentatiously against Piccolo in DB #184 – the beat is quite similar here, where he appears behind his opponent to land a hit, even though they’re capable of responding at this level. It’s a nice little way of conveying both the basic speed and the sense of working on a Godly level that Goku has been projecting, even as it serves the specific function of evading Moro’s energy absorption.
  • The battle carries through the next major 'Freeza arc' beats of its substructure (Level 3), as a moderately more serious exchange, in which Goku does unexpectedly well (even by the reckoning of Divine onlookers), but both combatants haven't been using their full power - but there's too much of a difference between their respective reserves, as Moro has a great deal more strength left, but Goku's already using his ultimate technique and (expectations of onlookers to the contrary) he doesn't really have anything else up his sleeve. As he notes, his characteristic response is to push his own limits and hope there's something on the other side of it, but as in the former arc, the 'go for broke' approach only uses up his strength (arguably, his recourse to a sneaky Genki Dama in that arc will now be occupied by Vegeta, who surreptitiously will gather the ki from Moro himself, and will disperse it in what seems to be the victory; there are other ways of interpreting that, though - at that point, the sub-structure is sort of in a transitional phase between arcs). There is also a (slightly less thoroughgoing) 'Level 2' structural aspect at play here, as the villain's recourse to finally using their true, hidden power following an early display of superiority from Goku came from - you guessed it - Piccolo Daimao in DB #156, only Goku continued to show a general superiority there. Here, however, Goku's arc of surpassing the Gods is not complete, but merely at the threshold ("the gateway", as Whis puts it) - so it is unsurprising that it is not so straightforward this time, as he has reached the limits of Earning, and will require Giving from Merus to afford him the last push he needs (Level 1).
  • Goku's smile in the "If you were just stalling for time..." panel gives me very strong Shintani (Goku vs. Broly) vibes.
  • The 'stamina balancing act' was an interesting dynamic while it lasted, but one that is almost impossible for Goku to make good on: he's forced to rush the fight (and expend more effort, and so presumably more stamina) in order to conserve his stamina well enough to last long enough to win. The only mitigation here is that Goku isn't trying absolutely as hard as he can just yet, which might allow him to eke out his access to Ultra Instinct a little more even when rushing things, but it's still a tall order even on the face of things. Of course, Moro cuts through this conundrum neatly by revealing his sneakiness straightforwardly, and showing that the whole strategy is impossible. On that level, Goku going for broke and hoping it'll be enough to put Moro down quickly makes a kind of sense on its own - but as we've said, there's also the quiet hope that he'll find his way to True Ultra Instinct; despite the fact that he loses, I don't really think of this move as simply repeating the same kind of mistake as he did in 超 #39 against Jiren (though he'll be led increasingly down this path when it's clear his best isn't good enough, by which point he simply has nothing to lose).
Chapter 60 - Merusu’s Miscalculation/Merus’s Miscalculation
21 May 2020
Chapter Notes
  • Favourite art: Straight in with the cheat - the first 5 pages are a very enjoyable piece of visceral-feeling artwork, particularly the panel of them standing face-to-face and straining mightily to resist the swell of each other's clashing auras. When it comes to pieces like this, though, I do feel that some of the roughness in Toyotarou's pencilwork getting lost when smoothed out by the inks is a little bit of a shame, as I enjoyed the energy it conveyed, but enough of it remains to still be a strong piece of work. The colour version of the manga seems to smooth over the whole thing even further, eliminating the roughness and sense of power in the scene almost entirely, which I think is a great pity. Anyway, this nomination is closely followed by the last couple of pages, particularly the panel-work and angles of the last page, where Vegeta leaps into the fray. The fight between Goku and Moro generally is quite enjoyably choreographed, too, though obviously not quite as well as in the previous Chapter.
  • I've already talked about Goku's change of strategy to using his maximum power here - I mentioned that I don't think he's making quite the same mistake as against Jiren in 超 #39, mostly because Jiren identified the problem as Goku wielding a great and harmful power wrongly, whereas in this instance, all the power is his own and perfectly usable without this consequence. It's true that focusing on increasing his power is still the wrong way to go about things, as Merus has already pointed out in 超 #52 that the key to Ultra Instinct is emotional control - however, Merus has also pointed out in 超 #53 that replicating "an extreme crisis" that is "a matter of life and death" is "the quickest way to achieve it again". Whis implies that this is the logic behind Goku's gamble here: not simply to try to out-strong Moro in a dumb bout of rock-em-sock-em fisticuffs, but in the hope that his body will sense the crisis when his back is against the wall like this, and will "exhibit untold power" in the form of True Ultra Instinct. When it becomes clear this isn't going to do it for him, that's when he really goes all-in on power (what other option does he obviously have by then?). So that's why I think he's not simply falling back into old habits - he's trying to find the quickest way to the power he's been seeking, like his master has instructed. But this arc has to plumb even graver depths of crisis than this (as in 超 #62-63) before Goku comes out the other side and completes his own arc, with the help of the gift of Merus's life.
  • I quite like the initial full-power exchange, not only because it's very meaty and hard-hitting, but also because it seems more ambiguous than the fight in 超 #59, where Goku held the (inconsequential) advantage: while he's landing heavier hits on Moro, there are also some warning signs in the fact that Moro's more capable of surprising him with ordinary movements that don't require magical or psychokinetic trickery - see, for instance, when he simply grabs Goku by the foot and smashes him into the ground, or when he unexpectedly bears down on Goku simply by wading through his ki blasts. I wouldn't say this is symptomatic of Goku giving up the speed advantage he had, but rather of Moro making up the difference there was (see how easily he gets the drop on Goku at the end of 超 #59): Goku is still able to surprise Moro by his movements, and it's only when he starts to run out of puff that he stops connecting with his moves and Moro really starts to punish him with his counters.
  • Also a warning sign is the apparent emotional slips Goku starts throwing due to his expended effort. In 超 #59, we see occasional mild surprise, and small grimaces of effort (the principal facial reactions are pain from getting gut-punched, and strong surprise at seeing Moro's full power). Here, strong grimaces are ubiquitous, exclamations of surprise and pained reactions also feature, as does visible frustration and even a grin of satisfaction - so, in pursuing this course, Goku edges further and further from his goal.
  • We get a nice juxtaposition of Goku's stock falling, as he proves unable to put Moro down, and Vegeta's stock rising, as he finally manages to pull off the technique that can take down Moro. While it's clear Toyotarou doesn't want to give anything away at this point, there's a question over how this is a demonstration of Forced Spirit Fission, in retrospect - 超 #62 establishes that Vegeta only needs to inflict damage, and 超 #67 makes clear that energy blasts can do this, so his distance from Hatska seems justifiable. However, since Goku says in 超 #61 that it "tears apart things that were combined through fusion or absorption", which doesn't seem to apply to Hatska, though Pybara recognises Vegeta's success by sight. I assume there's a nod to the idea of splitting things apart from the fact that multiple Hatskas lie on the ground now - perhaps Vegeta's attack forcibly split his Spirit, causing him to drop several copies in the process (since that's something he does almost without thinking)? It would track with the Yardratian philosophical motif I summarised as “Where the Spirit leads, the Body follows”, to be sure.
  • From Vegeta's comic reactions, and the fact that, despite the dwindling amount of time available to learn Forced Spirit Fission, this is only mentioned now, of all times, I assume Pybara's "Uh? I can't go to Earth" is meant to be a gag rather than a dramatic plot beat. But it does draw out the moment before Vegeta can intervene in an increasingly desperate situation, which succeeds in upping the tension pretty well, and I feel it also does a little more to sell the feeling that when it comes to opposing Moro successfully, Earning is never going to be quite enough, as there'll be something extra that's needed just over the horizon (just like with Goku and Ultra Instinct at this point). The Yardratian taboo on going off-world is also the latest example in Dragon Ball Super of individuals with remarkable power ironically having some reason why they can't use it to its fullest extent (see also: Merus).
  • Goku's last throw of the dice appears to generate Blue energy - that is, specifically SSjB energy - in his aura. That Merus considers this going for "sheer power alone", and at the expense of Ultra Instinct's real advantages, serves, in my opinion, to underscore the idea that in terms of ki power alone (the conventional way of regarding power), Ultra Instinct may not be 'all that'. Its other advantages (increasingly perfectible movement, resulting in a wielding of effective power that far exceeds the limits of ones' own conventional ki power) are the things to focus on, exclusively of conventional power. And, of course, we know that’s not the right way – more powerful, perhaps, but less effective. That said, I enjoy Goku's vicious little grin of triumph in landing a hit on Moro, just before he gets blasted.
  • The substructure of the arc moves on again, with Goku beaten by the Big Bad after having tried to exceed the limits of his maximum power, laid out helplessly and eventually reliant on the intervention of the 'talking heads' on the sidelines. I mentioned the possibility earlier that Vegeta, in the 'Level 3' substructure that I'm arguing exists in this part of the arc, might stand in for the sneaky Genki Dama (since he's taking energy to defeat the bad guy), but there is an alternative, and just as likely (arguably likelier) connection in Goku being laid out with the enemy starting to drain his power - this would move us along in the story to Goku's initial defeat in the early part of the Cell arc; in that case, Vegeta would stand in for himself by tagging in and winning handsomely - but he takes his opponent's energy, instead of the reverse (and he'll get beaten by a Big Bang attack in 超 #62, instead of the reverse), which is governed by the Stealing/Earning/Giving themes of the arc, and the initial resolution of Vegeta's personal character arc. If that's accepted, then one finds it pleasing to see that the sub-structural transition is heralded by the intervention of none other than Androids #17 and #18, who stood at the centre of that arc and who are the only characters whose ki can't be stolen (another marriage of these levels in a single plot beat). As I mentioned previously, their surface-level contribution is a little bit meaningless (at best, they stretch the beat and up the tension by stepping in and likewise achieving nothing, as we wait for Vegeta to learn Shunkan Idou), but it makes better sense when allied to the idea that the arc is harnessing previous Dragon Ball to move through its own beats and fuse them together in a single culmination - looked at that way, who would be more fitting to intervene at this point?
  • Moro is amazed that Earth would have the technology to create artificial life-forms; looking across the span of Toriyama works that fit with Dragon World, Earth must be accounted as really punching above its weight for the production of our synthetic friends:
    • Of course, there are Gero's 20 cyborgs/androids, plus Cell (Androids 1-12, 16 and 19 being totally mechanical); as Gero is also responsible for all the other Red Ribbon weapons and inventions, he's also responsible for the artificial Sergeant Metallic (DB #58-59).
    • Famously, Arale Norimaki is the creation of Senbei, the titular Dr. Slump; his rival, the evil Dr. Mashirito, creates many artificial enemies to defeat Arale (Caramel Man 1-9); his son carries on his work, creating up to number 23 (Abale of the one-shot Dr. Mashirito Jr. and Abale-Chan); in one issue set 10 years in the future, Senbei makes an artificial baby for Arale and Obotchaman (AKA Caramel Man #4), which raises the number further.
    • Random robots and the like show up in Dragon World too, and it's not particularly new technology: for instance, Goku pops a standard Capsule Robot to help him operate a plane, in DB #56; robotic hospitality staff are on-site at Capsule Corp in West City in DB #69; an old combat robot, set to guard a long-abandoned pirate cave, accosts the heroes in DB #75 (and is a play on a similar plot point from an older Toriyama work, Dragon Boy, in which the protagonists encounter an ancient sentry robot still guarding its deserted kingdom). One might quibble about the extent to which these count as 'life-forms', I suppose, but I thought they were worth mentioning.
    • And finally, we get to a cybernetic enhancement of an ordinary Human (apart from the Gero-type cyborgs) - Following his defeat to Son Goku in DB #92, Tao Pai Pai is restored and returns as a cyborg in DB #167-170.
    So, while Goichi’s crew of scumbags are capable of making artificial soldiers at will, Earth also has a considerable amount of bio(mech)diversity at its disposal.
  • Vegeta teleporting straight into a trash can is a funny enough beat, apart from showing that someone using Shunkan Idou can deviate from strictly being pinned to a ki signature (though here it's by accident, I also have in mind Goku's use of the technique around Android #17 in 超 #31).
  • More seriously, we get the fact that he pulls it off successfully the next time around, having - as Pybara makes clear - worked to Earn it. This bears comparison with Vegeta's original attitude to Goku's insistence that "even the lowest-born can outdo the elite if they work hard enough" (DB #228), as one can only say that Vegeta has internalised Goku's attitude completely; in fact, arguably even more than Goku has - such that, where his status as a "prodigy" would have then been credited simply to a quirk of birth, Pybara now defines it as "born of hard work." But despite Vegeta's accommodation to Goku's perspective, there's also an interesting dynamic at play on the theme of Earning when Vegeta encounters Goku: he forswears the technique after having used it once, saying "I have no intention of pilfering your signature move..." While Vegeta has put in the work to justify saying he's earned the use of the technique as much as Goku did (and arguably this is a slightly contrived decision based on the Out-of-Universe consideration that Shunkan Idou is Goku's move), the sense of 'parting of the ways' between their two character arcs is pronounced enough that even to continue to follow where Goku has led is tantamount to Stealing, in Vegeta's view. He is determined not only that what he does should be earned, but that it should also be his exclusive achievement. Of course, this is a direct straining against the drift of one of Dragon Ball Super's most pervasive themes - that of Teamwork - as on some level, Goku and Vegeta need each other, and will only really achieve victory together.
  • So, we've moved through the transition from the Second to Third Acts, and with it there's an upswing in the drive to move the plot on to its key confrontations, keying up the crisis of the arc to fully expose the character arcs of the main characters - Vegeta will be first, working hard to specifically counter Moro's threat and start Earning his own redemption for the sins of his past; Merus will be next, Giving his own life to protect the Galaxy and realise his own faith in Goku; Goku will be last, combining his own Earning with Merus's Gift to surpass the Gods definitively, completing the arc he began in Super and repeating the pattern demonstrated in the Piccolo Daimao-23rd Budokai cycle (what I've been calling the 'Level 2 structure'). Having got going, it's moved through a pacy, attractive, and enjoyable set of beats, with much improved action in 超 #58-60 countering the very perfunctory offering of 超 #57 in particular.
    Alongside this, I believe we see the serious advancement of another sub-structural level (technically introduced in 超 #54, but in earnest since 超 #56) of the chronologically-advancing story of Dragon Ball leading on from the cycle represented in the 'Level 2 structure'. This governs not just Son Goku's arc, but the general drift of the plot in this Third Act - we see it begin with the time given to the Dragon Team to train for the threat from space as Goku speeds back from his Divine training, for him to arrive in the nick of time and smack around the lesser of a pair of major arc villains before the main arc villain offs his compatriot (Saiyan arc); Goku then enters into a one-on-one fight for the fate of the Universe with the Big Bad, and uses his newfound power to hold his own unexpectedly well until it becomes clear that the antagonist isn't using anything like their full power, and Goku's own attempt to gamble and stake it all on exceeding his own limits doesn't pay off, and he is beaten (Freeza arc); as the villain starts to steal Goku's energy, he's interrupted, and Vegeta steps in and takes over as the principal Earth warrior (Cell arc). We'll get more along these lines, aimed at harnessing the story to a fuller culmination in the arc (apologies if this reading seems tendentious, but having identified it, I simply have to pursue it).
    If I'm right about the intentionality here, then fusing the surface structure with these two extra layers of sub-structure is highly ambitious, and a clever piece of plotting - sort of a conceptual 'diptych' with the previous arc, inasmuch as while the key to the resolution of the Tournament of Power was the characters who belonged to Son Goku's story, the key to the resolution of the Moro arc is the story of Son Goku and his drive to surpass himself, and the very Gods, which comes good in the climax. The relationship between these sub-structural elements and the 'superstructure' of the arc (that is, the surface plot beats, and the themes of the arc) is quite elegant - what could've risked being a wooden play-by-play is generally actually a dynamic re-interpretation led by the story at hand (despite my fixation on what may be going on under it, an although it is occasionally mishandled, as where 超 #54 surrenders the momentum that 超 #53 manages to build), giving the whole culminating Act a heft that...feels right, somehow.
    Returning to the surface level, I don't think anything can disguise the fact that 超 #57 spends a lot of time doing not a lot of stuff, but at least Moro's presence becomes active in his arc, again - his sense of personal threat has been a little bit too distant for the Second Act, and even his use of Saganbo as an enforcer does a little bit more to remind us of what he's about and keep his personal presence at the forefront of our attention, in addition to coming home to roost with a nice, interesting set of character interactions (something of a rare gift, for Moro) - particularly in 超 #58, which becomes a hostage scenario with the connivance of the hostage. When Moro gets down to business, the fight between him and Goku works well, showcasing both the final major showing of Moro's magic and the strengths of Omen Ultra Instinct, before he (somewhat predictably) shows his true power. He does his narrative job and menaces Goku well enough to wind up some serious suspense for Vegeta's appearance to build on, and after several issues of his rather colourless minions running the show, that's something of a relief.
Well then, that's all for this instalment - as ever, The Super Re-Read will be back for its next instalment in the next couple of weeks. Now it's over to you - what did you get out of your Re-Read..?

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Jack Bz
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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by Jack Bz » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:47 pm

LOL, I also somehow never noticed that background detail of Moro totally vaporising Saganbo. Noice.

On re-read, I found it interesting how Goku eventually decides to not eat food during his training with Merus, especially with your description as Moro as an apex predator in mind and the contrast there: while Moro is eating countless planets to get stronger, Goku is doing the opposite and not eating at all, despite his love and ability to consume loads of food being one of his prominent characteristics since day 1.

I kinda wondered why that might be the case, other than just a hint that Merus is an angel (which doesn't necessitate Goku also not eating), but thinking about the themes made me wonder if it's some kind of commentary on stealing and earning power/the general theme of Super being about wielding power correctly as opposed to simply gaining as much power as possible. Dragon Ball has often had a somewhat realistic though incredibly exaggerated method to getting stronger when it’s via training: resistance with weights (whether it be turtle shells, clothing or gravity) and eating a whole lot of food (especially with saiyans). Since Goku is training to wield the power he already has via perfecting self-movement with ultra instinct, he eventually concludes that it’s not really important to be eating food when it comes to training.

It could also just be something like Goku’s nature is becoming more like that of an angel without him really noticing, signalling progress in attaining ultra instinct.

Unrelated comment: Re-reading this arc has definitely been a major slog compared to the others, which is a shame, and I don’t find myself having much insight over my initial read. For me it’s definitely Toyo’s weakest outing, with the silver lining that his art is definitely at its peak of the whole manga in the final few chapters imo. Single handedly made me come around to the silver haired ultra instinct over omen.

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TheSaiyanGod
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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:53 am

I'm doing my own re-read now of Dragon Ball (which will eventually extend to DBS too) and I just realized that there are several things that I don't remember in Moro arc and that can end up being quite interesting to rediscover while reading, so I'm just reading the last few posts superficially. And I realized that it would be very interesting to see a re-read of you about the original manga as well if you are interested (I really don't remember if you already answered about this, so sorry if that is the case), especially now that your DBS re-read is approaching the most recent chapters.
Magnificent Ponta wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:16 am I've already talked about Goku's change of strategy to using his maximum power here - I mentioned that I don't think he's making quite the same mistake as against Jiren in 超 #39, mostly because Jiren identified the problem as Goku wielding a great and harmful power wrongly, whereas in this instance, all the power is his own and perfectly usable without this consequence. It's true that focusing on increasing his power is still the wrong way to go about things, as Merus has already pointed out in 超 #52 that the key to Ultra Instinct is emotional control - however, Merus has also pointed out in 超 #53 that replicating "an extreme crisis" that is "a matter of life and death" is "the quickest way to achieve it again". Whis implies that this is the logic behind Goku's gamble here: not simply to try to out-strong Moro in a dumb bout of rock-em-sock-em fisticuffs, but in the hope that his body will sense the crisis when his back is against the wall like this, and will "exhibit untold power" in the form of True Ultra Instinct. When it becomes clear this isn't going to do it for him, that's when he really goes all-in on power (what other option does he obviously have by then?). So that's why I think he's not simply falling back into old habits - he's trying to find the quickest way to the power he's been seeking, like his master has instructed.
That's what I get from this scene too, it's not the same mistake he made against Jiren. Although he was wielding the power of Omen form in the wrong way in the end, there was really nothing he could do. He followed Merus' strategy, tried to push his limits against Moro knowing that this was the way to obtain the Completed Ultra Instinct (in addition to being the way the Saiyans evolved), but as Whis said, a miracle did not happen this time and his power had already greatly declined to the point where he was no longer able to use Ultra Instinct's trademark speed. So the only thing left for him was to increase his Ki in the conventional way to try to make up for the lack of other attributes

And I am also a little uncomfortable with Vegeta's choice not to use IT anymore because it is Goku's "signature technique" (as you well pointed out, more for out of universe reasons since we saw characters like Cell, Boo and Black using just fine despite being a technique that reminds us more of Goku). Considering that the Yardrat training also strengthened Vegeta's ability to sense Ki (to the point where he could sense spirits in Earth even though he was on a planet outside the jurisdiction of Galactic Patrol), he could probably make one of the best uses of IT if it became a permanent technique in his arsenal

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:04 pm

How 'bout that - y'wait a week for replies, and suddenly 2 come along; like buses :lol: Thanks both!
Jack Bz wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:47 pmIt could also just be something like Goku’s nature is becoming more like that of an angel without him really noticing, signalling progress in attaining ultra instinct.
There's a neat set of observations here - thanks! I guess what I'd say about the quoted aspect specifically is that although there's a lot that's still pretty ambiguous about Angelic nature, one thing that has featured pretty prominently is Whis's nature as a dainty-gobbling gourmand (though obviously you're right that he doesn't need to eat), so I guess the extent to which Goku eschews eating could reflect this might be questioned.

I mentioned quite early in the Re-Read that it would be cool (is that the right word?) for someone to go ahead and catalogue all the things Whis and Beerus eat, and I guess I'll use this as an opportunity to do half the job (well, rather less than half, as Beerus eats a lot more than Whis, but it's still a substantial enough list of foodstuffs...):

超 #3: Takoyaki (2 helpings)
超 #5: Cup Ramen (presumably the same Fresh Vegetable and Soy Sauce flavour as given to Champa); Boiled Don Don Bird egg
超 #14: Steamed Meat Buns; A Bowl of Ramen; Dumplings (implied - only Beerus is shown eating them, but Whis is served them also)
超 #15: A Slice of Cake (?) with a Soft Drink
超 #16: Coffee (at least 2 cups); A Bowl of Soup (the table is also set with dumplings and other dainties, in which Whis presumably partakes); A Glass of Wine(? Might be water, but the glass is a wine glass)
超 #17: A Glass of Wine (First thing in the morning, too...)
超 #26: A Slice of Cake (?); He also gathers a huge swag bag of Chocolates and Cookies that he presumably eats in between arcs
超 #27: Daifuku (plus the implication that Goku always brings some new food to every training trip, which follows on from the explicit statement that Whis exchanges training for tasty food, from the Revival of F promo manga, and Toriyama's own interview comments to the same effect).
After 超 #32, Whis and Beerus aren't on Earth much in the manga (very briefly in 超 #42; and then not until 超 #62, when they show up to eat something, which is frustrated by Merus's antics in 超 #63; I also haven't counted the Movie showings here).

So, if the series is going for something like Goku becoming more intrinsically 'Angelic', it'll probably have to do something more decisive to point this up. And given that this is Dragon Ball, I'd probably expect it to be a gag, like Goku's hair becoming more 'Whis-like', or him getting lipstick when he achieves higher refinement of Ultra Instinct, or something.
Jack Bz wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:47 pmUnrelated comment: Re-reading this arc has definitely been a major slog compared to the others, which is a shame, and I don’t find myself having much insight over my initial read.
That's fair. I feel a little better about it right now than I did previously, but a lot of that (most, even) is thanks to the Chapters in the Third Act, and to the stuff I (think I) see behind the plot, both of which I really enjoy and appreciate. But no, I agree it doesn't wipe out the much slacker offering that precedes it; this arc needed to be a lot tighter - if they wanted to have Moro backseat and go on a chomping spree for a time, they could've maybe chosen to put in a properly-structured mini-arc with its own impetus to break things up that could have played into things in the end, rather than just stretching things out with the combined interlude-and-sideshow we got.

Ah, well. It's easy to do 'might-have-beens', I guess. Fortunately, it's mostly good stuff from here (in my opinion); just a shame it came so late.
TheSaiyanGod wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:53 amAnd I realized that it would be very interesting to see a re-read of you about the original manga as well if you are interested
Wow. That would be a heckuvan undertaking - I doubt I'd be up to it, in all honesty. I am still thinking about what I might do next, if anything, as you're right that The Super Re-Read (or, at least, my one) will be ending pretty soon. I'll probably hang loose for a bit; this has really taken a lot of time and effort to do. Still, I'm flattered that you'd be interested in seeing me do something like that. I'll keep thinking.
TheSaiyanGod wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:53 amAnd I am also a little uncomfortable with Vegeta's choice not to use IT anymore because it is Goku's "signature technique" (as you well pointed out, more for out of universe reasons since we saw characters like Cell, Boo and Black using just fine despite being a technique that reminds us more of Goku). Considering that the Yardrat training also strengthened Vegeta's ability to sense Ki (to the point where he could sense spirits in Earth even though he was on a planet outside the jurisdiction of Galactic Patrol), he could probably make one of the best uses of IT if it became a permanent technique in his arsenal
That's all well-observed; I genuinely didn't think to point out the fact that others have used it in Dragon Ball (though Buu's usage in DB #509 is Kai Kai teleportation rather than Shunkan Idou); I guess them still being dependent on Goku's own 'ownership' of the technique is a relevant factor here (Cell learns it from Goku teleporting him off-world...somehow, and Zamas ends of using it because he steals Goku's body). But, yes - little things like this do sort of lend a ring of truth to the gripe that the series keeps the characters in a sort of stasis (even though Super has done a great deal to change up Dragon Ball's iconography).

I'd like to see Vegeta use some of the things that came from his Spirit Control, as I agree that they'd be fundamentally pretty helpful: it would have made good sense for 超 #66 to have Vegeta use things like Shunkan Idou to shift around Moro's energy drain, making Copies as decoys for the same purpose, or Gigantification to hold Moro in place in the way the Divine Power ultimately does - though, since the Chapter plays with its own set of beats (which we'll get to), I think what it ultimately does with Vegeta's power in producing the win is still good. And more fundamentally, I think the motif of Vegeta being brought into better balance in order to put forth his own power is probably going to be the most important specific thing from his Yardrat training going forward, given Beerus's mention in 超 #69 that Vegeta's doubts continue to inhibit him. It'll be interesting to see where that goes, I think.

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:42 pm

I enjoyed the black hole comparison with the arc's crazy pace. Also the detailed analysis about how or why the arc feels so long and repetitive. The first portion of the arc, if stretched and expanded upon a little bit more, could've been a great short arc, with just old Moro -the one I think all the fandom enjoyed the most, and some Blue Pawa saving the day, or something else.

I do think you forgot something from chapter 52. The whole Moro invasion could've been avoided if Dende contacted Piccolo telephatically instead of flying where he was to tell him to NOT let the Macareni Bros. go. It irked me at the time because Toyo could've come up with a better way for the story to move forward without having such a big blunder from the one we call god. I mean, a few panels before we had Piccolo failing to contact Namekusei and Dende telling him that telepathy has its limits. Maybe trying to contact Namekusei is impossible if you can't contact someone on another continent. Now that I think about it, I can't remember if they ever contacted Namek through those means.

The whole Earth Invasion thing was welcomed by me at the time it "aired". Probably because it felt like a breath of fresh air after so many not-so-interesting chapters and that elliptical progression. But it's hit 'n miss for me on re-reads -until Gohan defeats 7-3, that is. You explained as it is: the same thing that happened 2 months ago, it's happening again.

Goku balancing on a spike on Yadrat while Porunga keeps tapping his shoulder telling him to come home sounds great for some fan art. Would love to see that in the Fan Work Explosion thread.




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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:46 pm

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:04 pm Wow. That would be a heckuvan undertaking - I doubt I'd be up to it, in all honesty. I am still thinking about what I might do next, if anything, as you're right that The Super Re-Read (or, at least, my one) will be ending pretty soon. I'll probably hang loose for a bit; this has really taken a lot of time and effort to do. Still, I'm flattered that you'd be interested in seeing me do something like that. I'll keep thinking.
I totally understand, since your re-read is very well built, full of curiosities and interesting information, I'm sure it takes tons of time. I even feel a little bad about this suggestion (since obviously you have your personal life and obligations and the original Dragon Ball would certainly be a lot of work to reread / write about). But of course this is only if you have the time and desire to maintain a similar thread later
Magnificent Ponta wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:04 pm I'd like to see Vegeta use some of the things that came from his Spirit Control, as I agree that they'd be fundamentally pretty helpful: it would have made good sense for 超 #66 to have Vegeta use things like Shunkan Idou to shift around Moro's energy drain, making Copies as decoys for the same purpose, or Gigantification to hold Moro in place in the way the Divine Power ultimately does - though, since the Chapter plays with its own set of beats (which we'll get to), I think what it ultimately does with Vegeta's power in producing the win is still good. And more fundamentally, I think the motif of Vegeta being brought into better balance in order to put forth his own power is probably going to be the most important specific thing from his Yardrat training going forward, given Beerus's mention in 超 #69 that Vegeta's doubts continue to inhibit him. It'll be interesting to see where that goes, I think.
Oh yeah, certainly the end result served his character arc very well in this story. It's a technique that fulfills its role in dealing with Moro's gimmick and at the same time atoning for his sins against the Namekians, and all the training stuff was great (to the point that I particularly wish I had seen more of it, especially with the relationship built between Vegeta and Pybara). Particularly, I wasn't too bothered by not seeing techniques like gigantification or copies, but it certainly would have been quite unique to have seen Vegeta use them along with Instant Transmission during the fight against Moro. It would be interesting if Vegeta continued Spirit training after this arc, but I’m enjoying the direction they’re taking with the character with this new path in the Granolah arc (while maintaining aspects of his journey at Moro arc)

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by Jack Bz » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:15 am

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:04 pm There's a neat set of observations here - thanks! I guess what I'd say about the quoted aspect specifically is that although there's a lot that's still pretty ambiguous about Angelic nature, one thing that has featured pretty prominently is Whis's nature as a dainty-gobbling gourmand (though obviously you're right that he doesn't need to eat), so I guess the extent to which Goku eschews eating could reflect this might be questioned.
You are right that Whis is a gourmand for sure. The interesting thing is that he only eats food for the enjoyment of it, and Goku's stated reason for not eating is that he doesn't enjoy the food. What's also interesting is that Goku directly links "not needing to eat" as a trait to Whis ("Huh? Whis said the same thing") as a response to Merus telling him he doesn't need to eat. He then decides to join them in that characteristic while training to master their signature technique. I also think the timespan is significant, as Goku is literally opting to not eat for months over eating food that he classes as meh. That definitely made me raise my eyebrow that he could even survive doing that.

I got the vibe that it's meant to mark that he's significantly changed because he has been such an infamous glutton in the past. Hunger was even his main weakness in early Dragon Ball (almost losing to Yamcha of all people because of it) along with his tail being grabbed.
Magnificent Ponta wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:04 pm So, if the series is going for something like Goku becoming more intrinsically 'Angelic', it'll probably have to do something more decisive to point this up. And given that this is Dragon Ball, I'd probably expect it to be a gag, like Goku's hair becoming more 'Whis-like'
Y'know, if the manga was the only product, I'd argue that ultra instinct already did this with Goku's eyes and hair looking a lot more like Whis. It works well, and it's kind of a shame that that's not really the case in the anime/colour editions of the manga.

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:47 am

Koitsukai wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:42 pmThe whole Moro invasion could've been avoided if Dende contacted Piccolo telephatically instead of flying where he was to tell him to NOT let the Macareni Bros. go.
Hey, Koitsukai! Thanks for your post; it's good to have you along for the ride!

Yeah, it's a weird one, and arguably even weirder than what you say here, because Dende does telepathically contact Piccolo...from the approaching aircar. It's a weird little mishmash that could've been avoided just by repositioning the plot beats, really (Piccolo lets them go - the discussion on the Sanctuary reveals them as the Bad Guys - Dende contacts Piccolo - Piccolo shoots down the ship), which is odd for Toyotarou, since the one thing one can typically rely on is his straightforwardly logical connections.
Koitsukai wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:42 pmThe whole Earth Invasion thing was welcomed by me at the time it "aired". Probably because it felt like a breath of fresh air after so many not-so-interesting chapters and that elliptical progression. But it's hit 'n miss for me on re-reads -until Gohan defeats 7-3, that is. You explained as it is: the same thing that happened 2 months ago, it's happening again.
I think this is probably the single thing that I have the biggest problem with in the arc overall, honestly: it managed to do something unexpected that shifted the momentum of the plot, doubled down on it by deepening the peril with OG73-I's ridiculous ability-creep, and then completely backed off on it - the overt reasons are logical enough, I guess (more training time so the heroes can come out on top later), but they weren't narratively necessary or particularly satisfying, and most of the solutions were quite plausibly within the heroes' grasp even on the first go-around. Cutting the momentum built for the sake of setting up a 'Sideshow vs. Sideshow' clash seems like a real miss for me: if they'd kept it as it was, they could've combined more sharply Moro's own approach to the battlefield, Goku and Vegeta's need to rush their training and get there sooner, and actually have the other characters placed at the centre of the action for a reason (the fight has come to them, they're in it, they have to last for the sake of the Earth and this is where the narrative thread runs through the action), rather than being the discretely-arranged set-piece where all the big players are basically waiting on the sidelines (in Moro's case, quite literally) and the whole thing just marks time for 2 more Chapters before we move on. The sense of slackness from that is pretty pervasive, and that's a real shame, I think.
TheSaiyanGod wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:46 pmIt would be interesting if Vegeta continued Spirit training after this arc, but I’m enjoying the direction they’re taking with the character with this new path in the Granolah arc (while maintaining aspects of his journey at Moro arc)
I agree; I think that this was probably the best single thing the Moro arc contributed for Vegeta, because it links up what we've already been seeing in previous works and Chapters, with what we're seeing right now - this has shown up in the Revival of F promo manga ("It's quite evident to me that you are a prodigy in combat, yet you always seem to be lagging one step behind Goku [...] Do you have any idea why that is? [...] You are constantly straining your senses, which means your nerves are fully stressed all the time. In that state, when it comes down to business, you won't be able to function at full efficiency."), 超 #27 ("I can tell you still think first and move later. Doing that is limiting. It will take some time for your brain and senses to get your body to move how you want."), 超 #55 ("Before your training here, your body and spirit were so off-balance that you couldn't project your own power very well."), and now 超 #69 ("As long as doubt weighs down your soul, this power'll never be yours to wield [...] If you really want this power, you're gonna have to destroy any stray thoughts and re-create yourself from scratch."). So this seeming to be Vegeta's 'journey' right now (i.e., coming to terms with himself and getting out of his own way) is something I'm finding enjoyable, too, and I think the Moro arc put its finger on this aspect really well.
Jack Bz wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:15 amYou are right that Whis is a gourmand for sure. The interesting thing is that he only eats food for the enjoyment of it, and Goku's stated reason for not eating is that he doesn't enjoy the food. What's also interesting is that Goku directly links "not needing to eat" as a trait to Whis ("Huh? Whis said the same thing") as a response to Merus telling him he doesn't need to eat. He then decides to join them in that characteristic while training to master their signature technique. I also think the timespan is significant, as Goku is literally opting to not eat for months over eating food that he classes as meh. That definitely made me raise my eyebrow that he could even survive doing that.

I got the vibe that it's meant to mark that he's significantly changed because he has been such an infamous glutton in the past. Hunger was even his main weakness in early Dragon Ball (almost losing to Yamcha of all people because of it) along with his tail being grabbed.
You're right, that is an interesting way of looking at it. I guess it might be productive to look at this possibility next to the motifs around change and changelessness that the arc pushes: we've got 超 #61 coming up in the Re-Read next (tomorrow, in fact), which pushes most strongly the idea that Goku never really changes, and doesn't need to change (this'll come back in 超 #65 as well, for another round), which exemplifies his clash with the similarly-unchanging Moro; but of course he does visibly change (also like Moro) with his attainment of Ultra Instinct, which marries up quite nicely with your suggestion of a more fundamental change that perhaps he's not recognising even in himself. I think it's interesting how often the broader idea even comes up in dialogue, as well: from 超 #56 onwards, we've had a bunch of statements that play with the idea of the characters having changed beyond recognition - in 超 #56, Kuririn says "I'm not the same man as before! I've been training hard!"; in 超 #57, Jaco responds to Saganbo's power-up by saying he's "definitely not the Saganbo I know!"; in 超 #58, Goku tells Moro "I'm not the same guy I was when we first met", and says of Gohan and Piccolo "I barely recognise you two"; in 超 #61, Piccolo says he barely recognises Vegeta as well (after the question on whether anything has changed about him, at the end of 超 #60, and before the dialogue about how he's changed most clearly within) - it's interesting to see how often (and casually) the notion of change beyond recognition, even among characters we know very well, shows up.

I'll definitely be looking out for anything else that bolsters the idea of change (even if unnoticed) for Goku in coming Chapters of the Granolah arc; thanks again! Always good to have more stuff to think with.

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:56 pm

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:47 am Hey, Koitsukai! Thanks for your post; it's good to have you along for the ride!
I was always here, as a silent reader, but now I've finally caught up with the entire re-read. Wondering if you'll cover the Granola arc on a monthly basis or you'll stop at chapter 67, and get down to business with the new arc once it's over, though. The latter seems the better choice, when looking for a broader approach.

I'm finding awesome the parallels of the arc with DB's story itself, having little portions of the arc hinting at certain arcs.
At first, Goku's power-strained Sign form with the blue coming out and all, felt to me like he was repeating his mistake from the ToP, but I never took into account he might've been trying to recreate the conditions from the ToP to reactivate UI. I have no problem replacing my theory with yours, which seems pretty on point.

I'm happy Sign hasn't followed the anime's route and it's not just defense-proficient while UI is "only" an improvement of the offensive side. . The anime provided an imperfect "form" that was just half way through, but the manga clearly implies they're both just the "same" but one is perfect and the other one is not me :P
I wholeheartedly agree about UI being not a power up per se, and with the implausibility of an imperfect technique outclassing a perfect technique only because the latter is a few months older. Now that you mention it, Blue's and Sign's performance doesn't seem that far from each other, with Sign having certain agility quirks, while UI does seem far from everything prior to it.


We're finally getting to the 3rd act, can't wait to see the breakdown of those chapters, that's by far my favourite section of the entire DBS run. I was kinda unimpressed with U6's final moments, the Black arc to me felt it was put in the wrong order, and the ToP left a bad taste in my mouth, but what's to come really hit the nail for me. The 2nd act to me is the weakest part of DB as a whole, I wonder which part of it was because Toyo lost his entire notes and had to work twice as hard in lesser time, or probably that had no consequences at all.

The Krilin Show: - how about COPS but with a super-human officer driving the patrol car on tough neighbourhoods, and everything goes sour because he is afraid he'll go overboard and kill everybody?
- maybe a talkshow, interviewing death people, with the help of Baba's, from Raditz to Cell, perhaps even Spopovich and Yamu, or that family disembowed by Babidi. Who's better than Krilin to empathize with the dead?
- Krilin is a political operator who keeps criticizing the current King and everything related to him. Like a bald Birch Barlow.

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Re: The Super Re-Read

Post by Cipher » Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:02 am

Check-in on the previous few chapters/the totality of the second act of the arc, with my own reread via the color volumes fairly fresh in mind:
  • I agree that of all the mook battles in this stretch of the arc, I get the most out of Vegeta vs. Yuzun. The fight has character and levity, simply feels as though it's drawn with a bit more oomph than a lot of the surrounding bouts, and serves a purpose behind giving secondary characters something to do, providing an action-oriented window into the fruits of Vegeta's in-progress training.
  • The runner-up for me is Piccolo vs. Seven-Three. It's short, but there's a particular energy to the drawings, and it leverages the tension of the surprise early arrival of Shimorekka and co. that Magnificent Ponta has noted is let down by subsequent events. As opposed to just about every fight that follows, the outcome of Piccolo vs. Seven-Three feels genuinely unknown. That's worth a lot, in the grand scheme.
  • I normally don't like workshopping existing DB, but this arc is so close to working very well for me (as opposed to being something I mostly enjoy but with some rather large distractions) that I can't help but reflect on just how much good the suggestion to cut the two-moth timeskip here would have done the story. It would have granted narrative purpose and tension to the secondary characters' stalling against the Moro's goons, would have cut down on repeat fights (even if it maintained the same number of chapters), and things like Gohan and Piccolo's tag-team solution vs. Seven-Three would be more satisfying as solution in the moment than solution after preparation and a second meeting, wherein the second encounter never really gets to the point of feeling tense. I'm also generally a fan of genre fiction of this sort producing its developments unexpectedly. The Macarenis' trip to earth precipitating the climax of the arc either the characters or reader are prepared for it, with Moro, Goku, and Vegeta all independently rushing to Earth ahead of schedule, would have gone a long way toward adding a missing sense of franticness to the climax. If the logistics of needing in-fiction time for Goku and Vegeta to have made headway in their respective training, and for Moro to have amassed power, is an issue, the entire sequence from the Macarenis' visit to Earth onward could always take place two months later than it does in the arc as it stands, with the timeskip taking place ahead of all the action rather than in the middle of it. Hindsight is 20/20, of course.
I noticed something else structurally that has me feeling the very final few chapters are a bit lacking as well, on third pass (once via monthly reads, once via the black and white volumes, and now up through Vol. 14 in color)--interestingly something that I think hurts the series a bit more in collected format than monthly serialization, and another potentially easy fix--but I'll save those thoughts for when the time comes. In the meantime, I can at least say I enjoy Goku's return to the action and the ensuing fight quite a lot. Plenty of fun action and character interaction with Moro near the beginning, as the latter tries to provoke Goku's anger through his mistreatment of Saganbo.

As an aside, Chapter 57 is my single least favorite chapter of Super.
Tenshinhan's insult game from that time really is less than stellar - in the Budokai, he doesn't get beyond "fools" (DB #114), "sluggish" (DB #116), and "imbecile" (DB #130)
From just after drawing lots: "I'll giftwrap those words for you."

It's the sickest comeback in the series.

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