Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by kemuri07 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:36 am

1. ugh can we not do the gatekeeping thing here. People like what they like. Shit's not that serious.

2. I personally always try to avoid direct comparisons between DBZA and DBZ proper, largely because I don't think it should be done. DBZA is a fan work that is heavily reliant on another person's work. More importantly they are two completely different things: DBZ is a traditional shonen of the late 80s/early-mid 90s era; DBZA recontextualizes DBZ as a more comedic parody heavily reliant on injokes and knowledge of both the japanese and english version of DBZ. I love DBZA, but it's not its own thing.

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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by UltraInstinctRorikon » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:07 pm

kemuri07 wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:36 am 1. ugh can we not do the gatekeeping thing here. People like what they like. Shit's not that serious.

2. I personally always try to avoid direct comparisons between DBZA and DBZ proper, largely because I don't think it should be done. DBZA is a fan work that is heavily reliant on another person's work. More importantly they are two completely different things: DBZ is a traditional shonen of the late 80s/early-mid 90s era; DBZA recontextualizes DBZ as a more comedic parody heavily reliant on injokes and knowledge of both the japanese and english version of DBZ. I love DBZA, but it's not its own thing.
Is it gatekeeping to be confused when someone says a joke variant parody is better than a series that started the modern shonen genre?

You have people who will use it to potshot the series or potshot the dub.

Calling something very odd out I don't see as gatekeeping as more I see it as witnessing odd double standards and a somewhat disrespect for the material they claim to be fan of.

Also there's other issues I tend to have with these types of people because they get into arguments regarding characters like Broly and misunderstand his entire dynamic in the first film cause all they remember is Abridged Broly which was their interpretation on already inaccurate lines from the dub and Abridged fans consider it fact that Broly is a crybaby.
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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by eledoremassis02 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:59 pm

kemuri07 wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:36 am 1. ugh can we not do the gatekeeping thing here. People like what they like. Shit's not that serious.

2. I personally always try to avoid direct comparisons between DBZA and DBZ proper, largely because I don't think it should be done. DBZA is a fan work that is heavily reliant on another person's work. More importantly they are two completely different things: DBZ is a traditional shonen of the late 80s/early-mid 90s era; DBZA recontextualizes DBZ as a more comedic parody heavily reliant on injokes and knowledge of both the japanese and english version of DBZ. I love DBZA, but it's not its own thing.
I know it's not directed at me and I do agree. I get why people like it as a parody, but I don't get it that there are legit debates over who's better in terms of performance *DBA vs. Ocean Vs. Funi* (where they take a non-funny scene in DBZ and compare it to TFS comedic take on it. It's a different range and tone compared to the original. I don't like FUNi's redub and prefer oceans but I understand those comparison videos.

My brother loves DBZA, he hasn't watched the anime since but marathons DBA at least once a week. I personally don't care that he watches it but I can't have a conversation where it doesn't lead to "I know you don't like DBA but they did it better when...". Youtube became very much this too, or straight up TFS quotes in say a Kelamis Worlds Strongest Kaioken video. Kanzenshuu is actually really one of the only outlets I have to talk about the original source material anymore and that's kind of a bummer for me.

But to also say something positive... I do love when they reanimate stuff. That takes talent. A highlight for me was Vegetas rage on namek with the blood shot eyes. From a parody perspective, it was pure gold. :lol: I also like their lists of top moments and movies.

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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:32 pm

It shouldn't be right to watch a parody first and then the original, but that's what happened with some people and that's led to a boost in TFS's popularity.

But I also feel that because DB has humor and parody, this gave it a common ground in tone with TFS, itself funny enough to be enjoyable.


You should check out the other anime parodies going around:
- Sailor Moon parody (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBf1WUJv1cY)
- Hellsing parody (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTJXW7JcSes)
- Ah my Goddess parody (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8814700/)
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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by ABED » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:34 pm

derpytacos wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:57 am
ABED wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:47 pm
Also, why is someone watching a parody series without watching the original?
Because they can? I saw spaceballs and loved it before I saw starwars(and also loved it). Not to mention dbza is and has been freely available on youtube while dbz you ether gotta pay or go to certain websites that are not as well known. Especially with kids. I saw spaceballs before starwars because the next door kid got it for his birthday and wanted to show me. Not much of a stretch to think something similar would happen with dbza.
Of course you can, but not the best idea if you want to get all the jokes, granted I could've picked a less ubiquitous example than a parody of Star Wars. But the point still stands, Abridged isn't a substitute for DBZ, just like Spaceballs isn't a substitute for Star Wars, regardless if one uses footage from the original or not.

As for the poster comparing it to starting with a sequel before the original, that's different as there are different types of sequels. Many sequels especially older ones are more or less stand alone stories. In the case of something more serialized, we all CAN start with the sequel. Hell many of us here did. We saw DBZ before DB, but it's not the best idea if want to not just understand the story but primarily if you want to emotionally invest in the story. So many of the big moments later in the story matter to the extent they do because of the history. If you can start at the beginning, why not do it?

And lastly, as to the posters saying "some prefer comedy to drama", not only is this DB we're talking about, it doesn't matter what they prefer, DB is what it is. And I find it odd that the statement implies DBZ is lacking for comedy. It's a story where one of the gods thinks puns are the pinnacle of comedy and spends passes his immortal existence by driving in a circle, long distance peeing, and counting blades of grass.
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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:44 pm

ABED wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:34 pmOf course you can, but not the best idea if you want to get all the jokes, granted I could've picked a less ubiquitous example than a parody of Star Wars. But the point still stands, Abridged isn't a substitute
Regardless if the jokes are actually funny or not most of the humor in DBZA doesn’t really require to have seen or be all that deep into DBZ to get the surface level humor.


I mean yeah something like “Bardock is a brilliant scientist lol” joke really only works if you’re familiar with the fact that the long since irrelevant original Funi dub made him a scientist but stuff like Krillin calling Dende little green works without being aware that the AB Groupe dub exist. Most of the humor is derived from the situation or the characters being idiots/sociopathic/narcissistic/whatever
And lastly, as to the posters saying "some prefer comedy to drama", not only is this DB we're talking about, it doesn't matter what they prefer, DB is what it is. And I find it odd that the statement implies DBZ is lacking for comedy. It's a story where one of the gods thinks puns are the pinnacle of comedy and spends passes his immortal existence by driving in a circle, long distance peeing, and counting blades of grass.

“Some prefer DBZA Adult Swim style comedy to Dragon Ball’s more broader humor. “
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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by ABED » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:46 pm

I saw more than a few jokes that were references to the Ocean dub.
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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:51 pm

ABED wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:46 pm I saw more than a few jokes that were references to the Ocean dub.
Sure but how often were the jokes entirely dependent on being aware of the old dub’s existence?


ETA: I’m sure there are other examples besides the aforementioned Bardock the scientist joke but again most of the humor works (in theory because comedy is still subjective) without being entirely aware of the reference

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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by Anonymous Friend » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:19 pm

kemuri07 wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:36 am 1. ugh can we not do the gatekeeping thing here. People like what they like. Shit's not that serious.
Exactly. Let people like what they like, less we start looking more closely to what you personally enjoy.

I have over a half a dozen app subs that pretty much gives me streaming access to the entire franchise. But when I'm in the mood for something that takes place between the start of Z to the end of Cell, I reach for DBZA. It hit's pretty much all the story beats, it's very funny, and I don't have to the long panning shots and unwanted filler. It gives me my fix. I can knock the whole thing out in a couple hours vs dedicated an extra long weekend.

Plus, I've watched the entire series at least four times over from beginning to end plus all movies. I know what everything is. already.
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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by UltraInstinctRorikon » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:09 pm

Not a single person said you can't like it.

But claiming parody is superior over a series that defined the modern shonen genre is rather ridiculous to be quite frank.

And indirectly Abridge seems to have replaced the original in a lot of people's minds to the point they go into certain discussions as if the parody is how the story plays out factually and they are incorrect.

Abridges are nothing without the source material.
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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by TheGreatness25 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:20 pm

I mean, Abridged would never replace the original series for me, but the original might not be everyone's cup of tea. I know plenty of people who never really got into DB, so if Abridged had that little spark to get them into it, then of course they'd think it's superior. Also, maybe people are just exhausted from having the same conversations about the same things for 20 years and appreciate something a bit more fresh and, dare I say, a bit more taboo.

But why the hostility toward it? It's like one of those memes: "No one: ... DBZ fans: Abridged sucks!!!" Where are these people who tout Abridged as being better than DBZ all day and night? Where is all of this backlash for Abridged coming from?

I thought it was funny at first, but then kind of jumped the shark for me. Then, it brought the seriousness way up in their Cell arc to the point where it didn't have more humor than the original. And all of these YouTube videos using the cast for reviews and whatnot is a bit eyerolling. BUT, I respect the effort and the hard work. And I respect the hell out of that talent because I do believe that in most cases, the voices sound more natural than Funimation's, where every other character sounds cartoony and super forced. With that said, their goal certainly wasn't to replace the original nor to disrespect it -- quite the opposite -- so it's unfair to drag their project through the mud because some 9-year-olds on YouTube want to get a rise out of people by claiming that it's superior.

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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by eledoremassis02 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:09 am

TheGreatness25 wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:20 pm I mean, Abridged would never replace the original series for me, but the original might not be everyone's cup of tea. I know plenty of people who never really got into DB, so if Abridged had that little spark to get them into it, then of course they'd think it's superior. Also, maybe people are just exhausted from having the same conversations about the same things for 20 years and appreciate something a bit more fresh and, dare I say, a bit more taboo.

But why the hostility toward it? It's like one of those memes: "No one: ... DBZ fans: Abridged sucks!!!" Where are these people who tout Abridged as being better than DBZ all day and night? Where is all of this backlash for Abridged coming from?

I thought it was funny at first, but then kind of jumped the shark for me. Then, it brought the seriousness way up in their Cell arc to the point where it didn't have more humor than the original. And all of these YouTube videos using the cast for reviews and whatnot is a bit eyerolling. BUT, I respect the effort and the hard work. And I respect the hell out of that talent because I do believe that in most cases, the voices sound more natural than Funimation's, where every other character sounds cartoony and super forced. With that said, their goal certainly wasn't to replace the original nor to disrespect it -- quite the opposite -- so it's unfair to drag their project through the mud because some 9-year-olds on YouTube want to get a rise out of people by claiming that it's superior.
It's, for me, more of the fact that it basically eclipses the original in many conversations both online and it gets tiring because every conversation I have about Z turns into a talk about the abridge, outside of this forum. Like I said, I respect them as creators and a talented group of people who basically turned a hobby into career.

It's not much different than people who prefer the original in-house Z dub because that's how they got introduced to the series. Heck, I don't mind the 30th set and some people would label me as not being a "hardcore fan" so I can empathize there. Now, I don't go on Abridge threads and say "hey this sucks and you suck for liking it or that they're not a true fan" because at the end of the day, they can watch it as all they want and I can watch the original. Robo said it best....you like what you like.

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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by The Monkey King » Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:52 am

I think it's weird too but sometimes fans prefer fan-made/unofficial content more than official source material.

Take me for example, I think Masako X's What If series of videos are more entertaining story wise than anything "official" past Battle of Gods.

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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by jamiljamtheman » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:04 am

Though I definitely don’t prefer DBZA over it (I’ve only seen a few episodes, and they’re funny yeah, but “better”? No, and it’s difficult to even measure them that way), I definitely feel two things about the official DBZ: I think most of the pacing is too slow and dragged out, and the Funimation dub’s script is extra dumb at times, and not intentionally so. Maybe that’s why some people find DBZA more palatable? Though to actually experience the story I think Kai and the manga are the best options

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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by jamiljamtheman » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:05 am

The Monkey King wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:52 am I think it's weird too but sometimes fans prefer fan-made/unofficial content more than official source material.

Take me for example, I think Masako X's What If series of videos are more entertaining story wise than anything "official" past Battle of Gods.
Lol, though I stick to fan manga or animation, I’m pretty sure I consume at least as much fan content as official content, possibly more, and enjoy a lot of it. I feel you!

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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:13 am

I don't really like it "more than" DBZ because it's an apples-to-oranges comparison. I love 'em both. That said, there are individual elements of DBZA that I can't help but admire a tad more than DBZ. One of the more notable elements is that, well...DBZA's characters--and their relationships--tend to have more depth than their DBZ counterparts.

That shouldn't be surprising. Most of us on this forum are decidedly not kids, so we may not like to admit this, but DBZ is a kids show. I honestly think we sometimes try to give DBZ more depth than even Toriayama intended. Like we're--as adults naturally will--looking for "deeper meanings" everywhere, when in fact the surface-level explanations are about as deep as Toriyama went, because he wasn't trying to write an essay on the nature of humanity, he was just trying to write a fun gag comedy-turned-adventure story for children (and for that matter, primarily young boys). I'd take this even further by saying that it's not that Super was a downgrade in quality compared to DBZ, it's that we as an audience grew up, and can't look at the show the way we used to when we were younger.

DBZA, by contrast, was written by adult fans of DBZ who grew up with the show as kids and have fond memories of it...and that also happens to be their target audience. So, if that's the audience they want to entertain, it necessitates that they write beyond surface-level explanations, even if it's only a little bit more. I'm not talking, of course, about the early episodes of DBZA, which were--by the admission of the writers--based more on "lol so random"-humor, but rather, the multi-dimensional characterizations found in later episodes.

One example that immediately comes to mind is Vegeta and Bulma's relationship. Toriyama himself said he hates writing romance, and his primary audience was young boys, who find romance to be "cootie material." So, c'mon, let's be real...there was literally no reason for Vegeta and Bulma to fall in love. At all. It was all about plot convenience, and nothing more. It seems like they didn't even like each other even after they got together, so what the hell was their relationship based on? One of the earliest questions I asked on Kanzenshuu was what Bulma saw in Vegeta, and the closest thing I could get to an answer was, "Erm....I dunno.....lust, maybe....?"

Not exactly deep. Nor would it be. I don't blame Kanzenshuuers for that being the only explanation they could offer, because Toriyama didn't think it through, he just needed a plot development to explain why there was suddenly another Super Saiyan (Trunks) around, and Vegeta and Bulma getting together out of nowhere is what he hastily conceived.

With DBZA, their relationship was given a little more depth. Not a ton, but something, and it's something grounded in logic, which is an improvement over what we got in DBZ (which is nothing, grounded in plot convenience). In the DBZA universe, when Trunks gets back from the past, he has a conversation with Bulma which opens with, "Hey mom, 'ya ever meet DAD!?" She pauses, sighs, and then responds (in an "Ooook, so it's finally time to have that talk"-tone), "Look, love is complicated." He then asks what I asked on Kanzenshuu--"What did you SEE in him?"--and she responds, "A short, stubborn, powerful person desperate for recognition. As a female scientist in her early thirties, I...guess I identified with that."

I respect that explanation!

It explains every facet of their relationship. It explains what she saw in him, it explains why it was so brief, it explains why Vegeta is still largely absent from Bulma's life afterwords...it's a logical explanation for the relationship between those two characters other than a hastily-conceived need to introduce a new character that makes no logical sense whatsoever. It also makes sense considering Bulma's relationship with Yamcha in the DBZA universe. In DBZ, Bulma was head-over-heels in love with Yamcha and dropped him for Vegeta seemingly on a whim. In DBZA, Yamcha's kind of a loser, he can't hold a job, doesn't seem to have much ambition, and kinda took his relationship with Bulma for granted (as evidenced by how he, as DBZA pointed out, never used King Kai's ability to communicate across planes to call her at any point after he was killed by the Saibaimen). So when Bulma got tired of dealing with a whiny loser who had zero ambition and whose life was going nowhere, and saw...well, "A short, stubborn, powerful person desperate for recognition"...her breaking up with Yamcha and getting together with Vegeta--in a romance that ultimately didn't work out--makes total sense.

So yeah. DBZA had more depth at times, because Toriyama wasn't aiming for depth. I respect that from a writing standpoint.
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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by UltraInstinctRorikon » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:29 am

I'd argue it's a testament to how profoundly creative and imaginative the world of Dragon Ball and it's characters are that people can make this kind of fan content and have it blow up as such.

There's one youtuber called SSJ9k that makes a lot of hilarious content with his black styled versions of the characters (he himself is black).

If anything if not for the the style Toriyama made these characters in artstyle and writing their would be a severe lack of basis for things to work with.
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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:37 am

UltraInstinctRorikon wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:29 amIf anything if not for the the style Toriyama made these characters in artstyle and writing their would be a severe lack of basis for things to work with.
To be sure. While DBZA's characterizations had more depth, DBZA is of course operating on a foundation that was already built by someone else...which is to say, a fun, colorful world with a simple but engaging mythology. Like I said in my above post, DBZ isn't deep, but Toriyama was never aiming to be deep. Whether I hold that against him or not depends on what kind of story I'm in the mood to hear at any given moment. :lol:

So, Toriyama is to Dragon Ball what George Lucas is to Star Wars: the one who came up with the initial creative spark and created a fascinating world that we want to experience. The DBZA guys, conversely, are to Dragon Ball like what Lawrence Kasdan was to Star Wars: people who built on the foundation and presented it in a more multi-dimensional way. Do you prefer the simple, fun adventure story of A New Hope? Or a more complex and character-driven narrative like The Empire Strikes Back? If you're like me, that answer will be, "Depends on what I'm in the mood for."

Hence the apples-to-oranges comparison. I like 'em both for different reasons.
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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:32 am

DBZA has more depth? Now we're comparing it to The Empire Strikes Back? Did I wake up in Bizarro World?

And we were given a reason why Bulma took to Vegeta, she came to admire his sense of pride.
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Re: Preferring Team Four Star's parody over the original series baffles me

Post by coola » Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:26 am

Funimation dub, especially in old days, often felt like parody dub itself, in that case, i personally prefer TFS :) I know I'm not really objective, since I'm not big fan of Funimation in general, to put it very lightly.
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