Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Civic » Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:50 pm

Rewatched this the other day, it's actually better than I remembered it at the movies. I knew some of the spoilers for the film at my first viewing, and I was disappointed that Cell's 'return' was a Kaiju monster that wasn't the original Cell (Cell being my favourite villain) but having had time to reflect on it, a lot of those things didn't bother me on the second watch. The focus being on Piccolo and him getting two new powerups along with Cell Max being quite honestly a creepy boss (those glowing eyes and the roaring with the Semi-Perfect design is unsettling) is just great. Plus the whole CG aesthetic works way better than I would've expected after those video game looking scenes from Resurrection F.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by QuakingStar » Tue Apr 25, 2023 2:51 pm

Civic wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:50 pm Rewatched this the other day, it's actually better than I remembered it at the movies. I knew some of the spoilers for the film at my first viewing, and I was disappointed that Cell's 'return' was a Kaiju monster that wasn't the original Cell (Cell being my favourite villain) but having had time to reflect on it, a lot of those things didn't bother me on the second watch. The focus being on Piccolo and him getting two new powerups along with Cell Max being quite honestly a creepy boss (those glowing eyes and the roaring with the Semi-Perfect design is unsettling) is just great. Plus the whole CG aesthetic works way better than I would've expected after those video game looking scenes from Resurrection F.
I think the movie is just fine, it's simply the whiney babies who want every movie to be like the Broly movie.. but I promise you if that's what this movie would have been like then they would have cried about that too. There is no pleasing those who whinge.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Miracles » Tue Apr 25, 2023 4:34 pm

QuakingStar wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 2:51 pm
Civic wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:50 pm Rewatched this the other day, it's actually better than I remembered it at the movies. I knew some of the spoilers for the film at my first viewing, and I was disappointed that Cell's 'return' was a Kaiju monster that wasn't the original Cell (Cell being my favourite villain) but having had time to reflect on it, a lot of those things didn't bother me on the second watch. The focus being on Piccolo and him getting two new powerups along with Cell Max being quite honestly a creepy boss (those glowing eyes and the roaring with the Semi-Perfect design is unsettling) is just great. Plus the whole CG aesthetic works way better than I would've expected after those video game looking scenes from Resurrection F.
I think the movie is just fine, it's simply the whiney babies who want every movie to be like the Broly movie.. but I promise you if that's what this movie would have been like then they would have cried about that too. There is no pleasing those who whinge.
I've seen it plenty on the forums. There are those who say Broly was bad because of no story [rehashed] and that Micheal Bay directed the film like a Transformers flick. Now many are saying DBS: Super Hero is bad because of not enough of the former. However, many had an issue with the animation engine used for the film.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by The Monkey King » Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:03 am

QuakingStar wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 2:51 pm I think the movie is just fine, it's simply the whiney babies who want every movie to be like the Broly movie.
DBS Broly is the best Dragon Ball has ever looked in motion, but somehow fans are in the wrong for wanting more of that?

Meanhwile making Super Hero CGI was quite simply an objectively bad decision that Toei made:
According to Hayashida, not only were the costs to produce DBSSH in 3D so high that it would have actually been more cost effective to animate everything in 2D, but also that most of the staff at Toei Animation were wholly against the film being animated solely via computer graphics.
https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/03/ ... ng-3d-cgi/

Oh but I guess Toei animators are "Whiney babies" too aren't they?
but I promise you if that's what this movie would have been like then they would have cried about that too.
Ah okay, so you're just making up straw man arguments with no actual basis in reality.
There is no pleasing those who whinge.
You mean like you whinging about imaginary fans right?

Are these "fans" who would've complained if Super Hero looked like Broly with us in the room right now? :roll:

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:28 am

Can we please drop these antagonistic attitudes toward each other? It's extremely embarrassing to read, and it should feel embarrassing to type out.
The Monkey King wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:03 am Are these "fans" who would've complained if Super Hero looked like Broly with us in the room right now? :roll:
Hello! My name is Mike. You may know me from such roles as "running this website". :lol: I would have been disappointed if the follow-up film followed suit exactly as-is from the Broly film.

I wouldn't have "complained" in that I'm not going to sit and type out tirades about it, but I personally would have felt that disappointment. I just didn't care for it. Sure, certain things about it looked nice, but I also felt like there was a lot of visual assault without the backing behind it that interested me. I didn't feel the "spark" of joy watching it at all. Knowing the production of Broly in that it was one of several ideas pitched, had been in the pre-production planning even alongside Kale... just really bankrupt to me, and that's saying a lot considering the entire make-up of this franchise right now.

And I loved Super Hero. It was exactly what I wanted (minus the pretty terrible Goku/Vegeta stuff in the middle but we've already covered that ground ad nauseam???). But here I am being the guy who evangelizes Dragon Ball Fusions and loved Super Hero, so you can see where my preferences for this franchise and its story-telling methods lie right now.

So yeah. These people exist. They're real, they're valid, and there's no reason to be jerks at each other about it. Different people like different things. I'm not sure why this is so painfully difficult...?

Getting a little more personal with the response here, but considering you're just coming off a temporary ban with existing strikes against your account, I can't even fathom why you think this would be the way to return and strike up a conversation.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by QuakingStar » Thu Apr 27, 2023 1:42 pm

VegettoEX wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:28 am Can we please drop these antagonistic attitudes toward each other? It's extremely embarrassing to read, and it should feel embarrassing to type out.
The Monkey King wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:03 am Are these "fans" who would've complained if Super Hero looked like Broly with us in the room right now? :roll:
Hello! My name is Mike. You may know me from such roles as "running this website". :lol: I would have been disappointed if the follow-up film followed suit exactly as-is from the Broly film.

I wouldn't have "complained" in that I'm not going to sit and type out tirades about it, but I personally would have felt that disappointment. I just didn't care for it. Sure, certain things about it looked nice, but I also felt like there was a lot of visual assault without the backing behind it that interested me. I didn't feel the "spark" of joy watching it at all. Knowing the production of Broly in that it was one of several ideas pitched, had been in the pre-production planning even alongside Kale... just really bankrupt to me, and that's saying a lot considering the entire make-up of this franchise right now.

And I loved Super Hero. It was exactly what I wanted (minus the pretty terrible Goku/Vegeta stuff in the middle but we've already covered that ground ad nauseam???). But here I am being the guy who evangelizes Dragon Ball Fusions and loved Super Hero, so you can see where my preferences for this franchise and its story-telling methods lie right now.

So yeah. These people exist. They're real, they're valid, and there's no reason to be jerks at each other about it. Different people like different things. I'm not sure why this is so painfully difficult...?

Getting a little more personal with the response here, but considering you're just coming off a temporary ban with existing strikes against your account, I can't even fathom why you think this would be the way to return and strike up a conversation.
Yeah I enjoyed the Broly movie, but I'm very glad it wasn't like the Broly movie, I enjoyed SH as well. Only thing I didn't like was the soundtrack for Gohans Beast transformation.. it didn't fit the transformation IMO.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by YamiGoku » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:52 pm

People say they just want another Broly movie, but personally I think that would get old real fast, I'm sure we will get another bombastic super fight movie, but if thats the only type of movie Toei and Toriyama do from now on I can say I probably will enjoy them less and less by the time goes on.

I like Broly, but for all its boombastic animation, It just feels like long fight, not a lot to talk about, yes looks good, and has good moments but thats it for me, I dont hate it, I like it but, what I'm see is just a really cool fight, Super Hero is my favorite because It actually tells a story, and I think it has a lot of heart

yes, still has the fanservice with Gohan, but you can tell Toriyama was doing what he wanted here, and because of that storytelling and heart, the "Cool" part of the movie feels more rewarding, maybe not because the transformations came out of nowhere, but in the sense that the movie balanced more the story and the humor so the bombastic fight feels more special, in Broly you basically get only the Cool fight, and because of that, when the final clash ends, it doesn't feel as rewarding to me because we just went like an hour of fighting.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Apr 27, 2023 6:17 pm

I want another Broli movie but I want it to be about Broli. I want to know his feelings and goals and I think framing those around a big, dastardly plan from Freeza is a good way to get drama and action (not to mention more Broli x Cheelai scenes). I think the problem with Movie #20 is that there was really only twenty minutes of Broli between the 25 minute prologue and the fifty minute fight. I definitely love the large around of fighting, showing off the fiery determination of the key animators, so I wouldn't want to sacrifice that element, I simply want more time devoted to the drama scenes.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:10 am

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I actually think that the fight choreography in Super Hero is better than Broly. It really stands out in the middle of the film when Gohan and Piccolo are fighting the Gammas.

The Piccolo vs Gamma 2 clip is my favourite. Aerial fights have never looked that well choreographed. There's also so much weight to all of the impacts. It's even better with surround audio. You can hear Gamma 2 zipping around Piccolo and the impact of the punches sound so crunchy. The audio for Super has come a long way. This has the best sound mixing and sound editing of any Dragon Ball film I've seen.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Miracles » Fri Apr 28, 2023 2:25 pm

I'm with you on Super Hero's fight choreography being better than DBS: Broly. I've said this before too.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr Baggins » Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:39 pm

YamiGoku wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:52 pm I like Broly, but for all its boombastic animation, It just feels like long fight, not a lot to talk about
Vehemently disagree. Broly's climax, while not particularly dialogue heavy, has a lot to digest. There's a lot of emotional beats and thematic tie-ins there, especially when viewed from Broly's perspective.

Super Hero is a very plotty movie, which is what I think some people mean when they claim it has "more story". Plottier doesn't mean "better", though; there's nothing inherently interesting about Piccolo infiltrating the Red Ribbon Army base or whatever. The best parts are his interactions with other characters, which is fun in its own right, albeit pretty surface level. There's not much to analyze or delve into, especially on repeat viewings.

All this is to say that Broly comes out being the more compelling and narratively heavier film IMO (while still retaining the essence of Dragon Ball) and it's honestly not even close. I still enjoy Super Hero for what it is, and you can tell that Toriyama had a lot of fun writing some of the characters, but I feel it lacks the depth, ambition, and longevity of its predecessor.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:29 am

Super Hero defiinitely down the writing for Pan whereas with Broli I feel like there was a little more anticipation within the story for his next development.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by YamiGoku » Sat Apr 29, 2023 4:56 pm

Mr Baggins wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:39 pm
YamiGoku wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:52 pm I like Broly, but for all its boombastic animation, It just feels like long fight, not a lot to talk about
Vehemently disagree. Broly's climax, while not particularly dialogue heavy, has a lot to digest. There's a lot of emotional beats and thematic tie-ins there, especially when viewed from Broly's perspective.

Super Hero is a very plotty movie, which is what I think some people mean when they claim it has "more story". Plottier doesn't mean "better", though; there's nothing inherently interesting about Piccolo infiltrating the Red Ribbon Army base or whatever. The best parts are his interactions with other characters, which is fun in its own right, albeit pretty surface level. There's not much to analyze or delve into, especially on repeat viewings.

All this is to say that Broly comes out being the more compelling and narratively heavier film IMO (while still retaining the essence of Dragon Ball) and it's honestly not even close. I still enjoy Super Hero for what it is, and you can tell that Toriyama had a lot of fun writing some of the characters, but I feel it lacks the depth, ambition, and longevity of its predecessor.
For me, I think Super Hero has more of the essence of OG DB, when the series was more focus on character interactions and humor, and Broly has more the essence of modern DB that s has more focus on big fights, transformations and Fusions.

Both films have both essences, but I personally see more of the modern essence in Broly and more of OG on Super Hero, Broly has the humor and story, but the focus of the film is the evolving fight with Broly and his different transformations, while Super Hero has more story time with Piccolo and the interactions he has with the rest of the cast and the humor that comes with it, until is time for the new transformations and fights.

Also even if I'm a Goku fan, making Piccolo basically the main character of the film was a breath of fresh air, and having him interact with characters he has almost 0 screen time with like bulma and her crazy antics, and the Red Ribbon Goons, It may not be a big thing to dissect, but it's funny and it brings me all the right early Toriyama vibes.

In the end I love both films, I just like Super Hero slightly better because it did something a bit different from the usual we see on modern DB, but I think they are both good, and with how Super Hero performed in Japan, I think we'll probably get another Broly esque movie for the next DB film.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr Baggins » Sat Apr 29, 2023 7:23 pm

YamiGoku wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 4:56 pm In the end I love both films, I just like Super Hero slightly better because it did something a bit different from the usual we see on modern DB, but I think they are both good, and with how Super Hero performed in Japan, I think we'll probably get another Broly esque movie for the next DB film.
I get you. One thing I've always appreciated about the Toriyama-scripted movies is that they're all special in their own distinct ways, with specific elements that each does best. Even if I think Super Hero falls a bit flat in consistency, it has its own strengths and I think it's especially good at bringing Toriyama's style of humor to life. There's always something for everyone.

But I should clarify that while Broly is my favorite of the 21 movies released so far, I wouldn't want another one like it. It's the kind of film that can probably only be executed well once, given its influences and tone.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Apr 30, 2023 2:10 pm

I don't think I ever really "got" Broly: It's certainly better than the older Broly movies, and as pretty as it looks, the older fights. Visually speaking, the whole movies is basically A having the upperhand on B until B powers up and vice-versa. The animation is hit or miss, I like the portion of Vegeta vs Broly (Who drew that? It looks like Yamamuro but good), however I don't like how Shintani's artwork flows in fights and the 3D models were plain awful.

But Super Hero? Man, the 3D blew me away. Some scenes here and there can look off (I think Gohan topping his own house? I don't remember that scene very well though). The obligatory Base/SSJ1 warm up fight looks marvelous. Both movies were leaps and bounds above the anime since they didn't rely on looped flurries and Ki blasts, but Broly was starting to give in by the time Goku took over the fight. I saw a couple videos breaking down Super Hero's fights and it was genuinely brilliant. It blows me away to think animation can be that meticulously crafted. SH also knew how to portray big gaps: Logically, SSJ Broly vs Goku/Vegeta should've gone the same way Orange Piccolo vs Gamma 2 did.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by FortuneSSJ » Tue May 02, 2023 6:30 pm

Just realized now Toriyama probably choose Orange for Piccolo strongest form because that's the color of dragon balls. :lol:
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Gashaponista » Sun May 07, 2023 6:34 pm

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Cipher » Tue May 09, 2023 9:01 pm

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:10 am This might be an unpopular opinion, but I actually think that the fight choreography in Super Hero is better than Broly. It really stands out in the middle of the film when Gohan and Piccolo are fighting the Gammas.

The Piccolo vs Gamma 2 clip is my favourite. Aerial fights have never looked that well choreographed. There's also so much weight to all of the impacts. It's even better with surround audio. You can hear Gamma 2 zipping around Piccolo and the impact of the punches sound so crunchy. The audio for Super has come a long way. This has the best sound mixing and sound editing of any Dragon Ball film I've seen.
I completely agree with this. Even with less flashy animation (though it’s still plenty flashy in its own way), Super Hero sells the speed and impact of the fights in a way even Broly doesn’t.

I noted how strong the sound mixing was as soon as I left the theater. That plays a huge role.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by MCDaveG » Wed May 17, 2023 7:16 am

I actually find this about Toriyama funny and I respect the guy. As a fellow who works in design and advertising, I am fascinated by him trying to slack off, or hack his work to make it easier for himself, which in turn makes his work unique...
His most iconic art style from the mid 90s is a result of him going from oblique and detailed to sharp edges and lines, to make the drawing of characters easier.

He is excellent designer and combined with his character and ideas, I can not help myself but to fall in love with his work.
With the name shaenanigans and all his past mistakes, he can always make it work... just shrugs it off and if it's not broken, he will make it work somehow, all in character. Even break the fourth wall and make fun of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan name.
To me DBS SH is still better name that most of the TOEI Movies before with those convoluted and mysterious (in a cheesy way) names.

On the topic of art style of the movie, I was afraid at first, the 3D still irks me a bit but only from the point of it being inconsistent with 2D animation... but, they actually pulled it off and my only problem is with Gohan's hair in Beast form in profile.
But the movie looks awesome and the story worked a lot more for me, which is a problem I have with Broly. Outside of the DB Minus adaptation and new backstory to Broly, it's basically a crazy action figure fight and two hour 2D animation extravaganza to show off what these crazy people in the studio are able to do, just to introduce/revamp old fan favorite character into the show continuity and that's it...
With the Granolah arc, this is exactly what I have enjoyed as a kid, but with GT and everything during the years, I am kind of tired from the simple versus formula...
Super Hero made me excited for the series again, it felt fresh, unique. I loved the new forms being something different and not being Goku and Vegeta again.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by PurestEvil » Thu May 18, 2023 11:22 pm

I DID IT! I finally watched Super Hero almost a year after its release (whoops)! Now I can share my thoughts:

Pros:
-Excellent animation, maybe a bit marmite but it grew on me
-Battle scenes are wonderfully directed
-Character interactions and gags were funny
-Villains were interesting
-Pan is soooo cute! :D
-Orange Piccolo looks dope
-The side plot on Beerus' planet was entertaining to watch

Cons:
-Cell Max battle felt a bit dragged out, taking up over a third of the film
-The transition from the Red Ribbon part to the Cell Max part was a bit rushed
-The rehashing of Gohan's "slacking off" character arc felt uninspired
-I kind of wished they kept using the onomatopoeias from the Gamma 2 vs. Piccolo fight in other scenes :shifty:
-Goku's total obliviousness towards Vegeta's meditation was ridiculous, given he was taught that by friggin Kami

7/10 film, would rewatch
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