Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:59 pm

Peril wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:46 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:28 pm
UpFromTheSkies wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:48 pm Dragon Ball characters in general don't have much depth to them, that's just not the type of series Dragon Ball is.
Depth is not limited merely to the creator's intention. Art does not exist in a vacuum and Dragon Ball is no exception to the rule. Saying "Dragon Ball isn't the type of series to..." artificially limits the Overton Window of discussion while brushing aside legitimate grievances from parties affected by the message a work of art puts out there into the world.
Why does everyone rush to this excuse. Even with the amount of dislike Super in general has gotten. Surely some complaints are valid. I'm sorry but "turn your brain off, loser" is never going to be an acceptable response.
Society doesn't make media analysis a strong enough component of our curriculum and corporations don't want us to think about things too hard or else people will go after corporations. This is a problem I've seen a lot, not just in this fandom but in fandoms in general.
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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Tue Feb 28, 2023 5:06 am

Peril wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:46 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:28 pm
UpFromTheSkies wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:48 pm Dragon Ball characters in general don't have much depth to them, that's just not the type of series Dragon Ball is.
Depth is not limited merely to the creator's intention. Art does not exist in a vacuum and Dragon Ball is no exception to the rule. Saying "Dragon Ball isn't the type of series to..." artificially limits the Overton Window of discussion while brushing aside legitimate grievances from parties affected by the message a work of art puts out there into the world.
Why does everyone rush to this excuse. Even with the amount of dislike Super in general has gotten. Surely some complaints are valid. I'm sorry but "turn your brain off, loser" is never going to be an acceptable response.
Lots of complaints about the series are valid, but trying to argue that the series is biased against a certain group because the characters that represent that group lack depth, when almost all the characters, including the main character, lack depth, is just silly.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by super michael » Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:45 am

Chi Chi in DBS anime thinks she is the queen, who can boss anyone around and throw a tantrum when her demands are not met.

She doesn't care what other wants, she just gives lame excuse and the end. She thinks she has more authority over her grandkids, than the actual dad.

Her rules on competition, martial art and train are horrible in DBS. Those things are great for the body and mind.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Peril » Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:00 pm

UpFromTheSkies wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 5:06 am
Peril wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:46 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:28 pm

Depth is not limited merely to the creator's intention. Art does not exist in a vacuum and Dragon Ball is no exception to the rule. Saying "Dragon Ball isn't the type of series to..." artificially limits the Overton Window of discussion while brushing aside legitimate grievances from parties affected by the message a work of art puts out there into the world.
Why does everyone rush to this excuse. Even with the amount of dislike Super in general has gotten. Surely some complaints are valid. I'm sorry but "turn your brain off, loser" is never going to be an acceptable response.
Lots of complaints about the series are valid, but trying to argue that the series is biased against a certain group because the characters that represent that group lack depth, when almost all the characters, including the main character, lack depth, is just silly.
What are you saying? This thread is about how the writers "suck at writing women" Not that there is a biased agenda or conspiracy against them. You are too far into your feelings, bro. And besides, the females in this franchise are never as good at the few things character's in this franchise tend to be good at. So our complaints still stand.
And saying "well everybody sucks" is a shameful yet truthful condemnation of this franchise's downward spiral. Why are any of us still here?

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:32 pm

super michael wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:28 pm Chi Chi shows how she acts like a normal person in the Buu Saga, accepting her son and husband likes to train and fight.

Goten can't contribute anything, since Chi Chi forbids it in DBS.

Goten dies thanks to Chi Chi rules, even knowing that still nothing. Chi Chi wants Goten to be weak.
No... her husband and eldest son is dead and there is a threat to the land that is not normal...
Goten is unnecessary for what goku and vegeta are going to be .... if neither piccolo or kid trunks go either
lol everyone dies in that timeline even goku .... irrelevant comment
super michael wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:28 pm Gohan wasn't training, when he was studying. How would Gohan teach Goten?

You are seriously downplaying Chi Chi skills, Master Roshi of all people was impressed with Chi Chi skills.

Trunks learned from Vegeta, we are told Trunks and Vegeta are normally training.
I rely on "facts" ... there is not a single visible proof of it
Apart from cooking and scolding, he has nothing

Vegeta doesn't know that his son can transform...
super michael wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:28 pm No it doesn't the fact that Chi Chi trained with Goten, while Gohan studied proved you wrong. Chi Chi trained and taught Goten to fight, even when no money was involved.
irrelevant because you have no proof of anything... come and post the scene where it can be seen (don't just mention it) come on I'll wait for you....
super michael wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:28 pm The fact Chi Chi trained with Goten, while Gohan studied is all the evidence I need. It doesn't matter how weak or unskilled you think she is.
Money was not involved at all but training and fighting was allowed.
You don't prove anything... you don't have proof of anything, it's simple... basically everything is your speculation...
because since chichi doesn't know how to fly or has special techniques... She can't teach him anything...
super michael wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:28 pm Sorry but the fact that Chi Chi wanted to force and forced Piccolo and Krillin to do Goku "responsibility and his job" show you are wrong.

Chi Chi doesn't want Goten to compete with his father, even if it is friendly. .
Wrong about what...? it's a job that concerns goku... it's the same as asking goten to drive the tractor while goku has lunch... it's not a child's responsibility... she explains that herself...
super michael wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:28 pm Goku was willing to spar with anyone, Chi Chi however see it wrong for Goten to spar with his father.

Goten training with Goku would result in higher gains and learn more skills, than training with Trunks who has similar power and similar skills.

Chi Chi wasn't thinking about power gains at all..
Because simply because Gohan was stronger, he was more apt to train with Goku...

he allowed gohan to train with him... and that already shows that you were wrong
super michael wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:28 pm
You ignore that Chi Chi trained Goten in the Buu Saga.
We never see Goku ask permission from Chi Chi for Goten to go to Monster Island.

Chi Chi doesn't know Goten and Trunks were training at Bulma place.
It's not shown... you don't have proof... but we do have proof that Goten and Trunks went to the island of monsters...

super michael wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:28 pm Because of Videl choice, Gohan wasn't part of making any choice. Gohan as a dad was powerless, he had no authority at all. It was Videl, Bulma and Chi Chi who were allowed to choose to let Pan train.

Gohan wasn't the one who had the power to authorise Pan to train with Piccolo.
And still it doesn't change that everyone allows it, piccolo trains pan

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:39 pm

I don't see why people hate Yurin ... it's like Launch ... a gag character but she only appeared in an episode

Scientist Fu wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 1:05 am I think both the manga and the anime handle female characters pretty badly... and I genuinely think SDBH has better female characters, which is sad when you think they can do better than Toriyama himself.
considering that most seem fanservice, it does not see that it is true .... it is done to sell cards ... the cute designs sell

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Scientist Fu » Tue Feb 28, 2023 2:58 pm

Tai Lung wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:39 pm
Scientist Fu wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 1:05 am I think both the manga and the anime handle female characters pretty badly... and I genuinely think SDBH has better female characters, which is sad when you think they can do better than Toriyama himself.
considering that most seem fanservice, it does not see that it is true .... it is done to sell cards ... the cute designs sell
I don't think that's a valid argument. Every character get cards, not only females. + Towa came out way before SDBH, she was introduced in a video game (Dragon Ball Online), and all the female characters from SDBH have their role, such as Chronoa (Supreme Kai of Time), Aeos (ex-Supreme Kai of Time), Towa (the main female antagonist), Putine, Robelu, Lagss etc they are not just housewives. And that's much better than most of the DBZ female characters, imo.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by super michael » Tue Feb 28, 2023 3:18 pm

Tai Lung wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:32 pm
super michael wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:28 pm Chi Chi shows how she acts like a normal person in the Buu Saga, accepting her son and husband likes to train and fight.

Goten can't contribute anything, since Chi Chi forbids it in DBS.

Goten dies thanks to Chi Chi rules, even knowing that still nothing. Chi Chi wants Goten to be weak.
No... her husband and eldest son is dead and there is a threat to the land that is not normal...
Goten is unnecessary for what goku and vegeta are going to be .... if neither piccolo or kid trunks go either
lol everyone dies in that timeline even goku .... irrelevant comment
super michael wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:28 pm Gohan wasn't training, when he was studying. How would Gohan teach Goten?

You are seriously downplaying Chi Chi skills, Master Roshi of all people was impressed with Chi Chi skills.

Trunks learned from Vegeta, we are told Trunks and Vegeta are normally training.
I rely on "facts" ... there is not a single visible proof of it
Apart from cooking and scolding, he has nothing

Vegeta doesn't know that his son can transform...
super michael wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:28 pm No it doesn't the fact that Chi Chi trained with Goten, while Gohan studied proved you wrong. Chi Chi trained and taught Goten to fight, even when no money was involved.
irrelevant because you have no proof of anything... come and post the scene where it can be seen (don't just mention it) come on I'll wait for you....
super michael wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:28 pm The fact Chi Chi trained with Goten, while Gohan studied is all the evidence I need. It doesn't matter how weak or unskilled you think she is.
Money was not involved at all but training and fighting was allowed.
You don't prove anything... you don't have proof of anything, it's simple... basically everything is your speculation...
because since chichi doesn't know how to fly or has special techniques... She can't teach him anything...
super michael wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:28 pm Sorry but the fact that Chi Chi wanted to force and forced Piccolo and Krillin to do Goku "responsibility and his job" show you are wrong.

Chi Chi doesn't want Goten to compete with his father, even if it is friendly. .
Wrong about what...? it's a job that concerns goku... it's the same as asking goten to drive the tractor while goku has lunch... it's not a child's responsibility... she explains that herself...
super michael wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:28 pm Goku was willing to spar with anyone, Chi Chi however see it wrong for Goten to spar with his father.

Goten training with Goku would result in higher gains and learn more skills, than training with Trunks who has similar power and similar skills.

Chi Chi wasn't thinking about power gains at all..
Because simply because Gohan was stronger, he was more apt to train with Goku...

he allowed gohan to train with him... and that already shows that you were wrong
super michael wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:28 pm
You ignore that Chi Chi trained Goten in the Buu Saga.
We never see Goku ask permission from Chi Chi for Goten to go to Monster Island.

Chi Chi doesn't know Goten and Trunks were training at Bulma place.
It's not shown... you don't have proof... but we do have proof that Goten and Trunks went to the island of monsters...

super michael wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:28 pm Because of Videl choice, Gohan wasn't part of making any choice. Gohan as a dad was powerless, he had no authority at all. It was Videl, Bulma and Chi Chi who were allowed to choose to let Pan train.

Gohan wasn't the one who had the power to authorise Pan to train with Piccolo.
And still it doesn't change that everyone allows it, piccolo trains pan
https://youtu.be/8Id_tR-NmDQ
2:20 one thing for sure she is a great fighter that resemble the turtle style.

https://youtu.be/ai6zl3YIUTg
3:19 Chi Chi trained Goten while Gohan studied.

Chapter 424 page 2
Bulma: He's probably training with Vegeta in the gym. Since he is old enough to train, Vegeta teach wants to teach him!
I think Vegeta wants to make Trunks stronger than you Gohan.

I couldn't find a video, so I have to quote it. You can check the manga yourself.
I will not provide the link to the manga, I could get into trouble or get banned.

I have no reason to lie. You know what they say eventually a lie will be revealed.


Chi Chi has no problem forcing Krillin and Piccolo to do Goku job, funny how you ignore that.
Chi Chi just hates the idea of Goten competing with Goku in anyway possible.


I rely on facts, you are being difficult on purpose. Acting like my quote from the manga means nothing.


Goten is weak thanks to Chi Chi. That is a fact. Her not allowing Goten to train with Goku and Whis are good example. Not being allowed to spar with his father is terrible.


Goku was never shown to ask Chi Chi to allow Goten to go to Monster Island.

Chi Chi wanted to have more power over Pan. You better not mention later Pan trained with Piccolo. Gohan had no power over that. That was Videl decision.

Sorry but you are being dishonest.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Soppa Saia People » Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:36 pm

Peril wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:00 pm What are you saying? This thread is about how the writers "suck at writing women" Not that there is a biased agenda or conspiracy against them. You are too far into your feelings, bro. And besides, the females in this franchise are never as good at the few things character's in this franchise tend to be good at. So our complaints still stand.
And saying "well everybody sucks" is a shameful yet truthful condemnation of this franchise's downward spiral. Why are any of us still here?
This seems like a weirdly aggressive post, I think what UpFromTheSkies said is pretty understandable. Dragon Ball is a series that, even at its best, has always struggled with given its side characters relevancy, which isn't a trait exclusively given to the women in the series. I think that's fair to say, and mostly agreeable. There's more nuance to it, for sure, and for me I'm not really gonna care a ton that a series meant for young boys that's 40 years old doesn't have great female characters in it, I have my stories that are meant for girls that are 50 years old that do.
I have borderline personality disorder, if my posts ever come off as aggressive or word vomit-y to you, please let me know.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Peril » Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:45 pm

Sometimes I wonder if Chichi's fear of the super saiyan form is meant to be a joke on that Ganguro trend.
Soppa Saia People wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:36 pm
Peril wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:00 pm What are you saying? This thread is about how the writers "suck at writing women" Not that there is a biased agenda or conspiracy against them. You are too far into your feelings, bro. And besides, the females in this franchise are never as good at the few things character's in this franchise tend to be good at. So our complaints still stand.
And saying "well everybody sucks" is a shameful yet truthful condemnation of this franchise's downward spiral. Why are any of us still here?
This seems like a weirdly aggressive post, I think what UpFromTheSkies said is pretty understandable. Dragon Ball is a series that, even at its best, has always struggled with given its side characters relevancy, which isn't a trait exclusively given to the women in the series. I think that's fair to say, and mostly agreeable. There's more nuance to it, for sure, and for me I'm not really gonna care a ton that a series meant for young boys that's 40 years old doesn't have great female characters in it, I have my stories that are meant for girls that are 50 years old that do.
It seems like a weirdly aggressive post because something I said hurt your feelings.

"Turn your brain off" is not understandable. Dragon ball being old isn't an excuse. You don't care? That's fine. Do you.
Dragon Ball is a series that, even at its best, has always struggled with given its side characters relevancy, which isn't a trait exclusively given to the women in the series
The thread is simply targeting a specific aspect of this over all excuse for poor writing that people are upset about or just want to talk about. Are the people with concerns not allowed to complain? If I made a thread talking about how I wish the human male characters got more to do , (which I do, badly) would you honestly show up to tell me I am overreacting? In the grand scheme of things the complaints are minimal yet some of you seem gung ho to pull out stop signs.
Tai Lung wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:39 pm I don't see why people hate Yurin ... it's like Launch ... a gag character but she only appeared in an episode
For me it is her bratty behavior despite her age. She apparently can't read, is very weak, becomes a victim of Roshi. Her issue regarding Tien is dumb, her very existence steals time away from Tien in his own episode to prove he's capable of being in ToP, before that opportunity jumps over him and is given to Roshi. And her name sounds like the polite word for piss. She is a shallow gag character showing up at the wrong time and place. A perfect storm.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Soppa Saia People » Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:04 pm

Peril wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:45 pm It seems like a weirdly aggressive post because something I said hurt your feelings.

"Turn your brain off" is not understandable. Dragon ball being old isn't an excuse. You don't care? That's fine. Do you.
First off, I am probably one of the last people who's gonna be hurt by someone saying Dragon Ball, or any shounen series is sexist, I've been complaining over how dominant the demographic is among most anime fans for a while, and how that leads to a lot of nasty, misogynistic attitudes within the community, I just said it was weirdly aggressive because you seem to be implying things UpFromTheSkies didn't say, and getting mad at them for it.
The thread is simply targeting a specific aspect of this over all excuse for poor writing that people are upset about or just want to talk about. Are the people with concerns not allowed to complain? If I made a thread talking about how I wish the human male characters got more to do , (which I do, badly) would you honestly show up to tell me I am overreacting? In the grand scheme of things the complaints are minimal yet some of you seem gung ho to pull out stop signs.
Yes, of course people can have issues with how DB treats its female characters, I do as well, and have posted about them before, in this thread even! But, also, it's a forum? If someone disagrees, or has a different viewpoint, their allowed to respond or say something, without someone else saying "Don't Get Caught In Your Feelings!".
I have borderline personality disorder, if my posts ever come off as aggressive or word vomit-y to you, please let me know.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Peril » Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:25 pm

Soppa Saia People wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:04 pm
Peril wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:45 pm It seems like a weirdly aggressive post because something I said hurt your feelings.

"Turn your brain off" is not understandable. Dragon ball being old isn't an excuse. You don't care? That's fine. Do you.
First off, I am probably one of the last people who's gonna be hurt by someone saying Dragon Ball, or any shounen series is sexist, I've been complaining over how dominant the demographic is among most anime fans for a while, and how that leads to a lot of nasty, misogynistic attitudes within the community, I just said it was weirdly aggressive because you seem to be implying things UpFromTheSkies didn't say, and getting mad at them for it.
The thread is simply targeting a specific aspect of this over all excuse for poor writing that people are upset about or just want to talk about. Are the people with concerns not allowed to complain? If I made a thread talking about how I wish the human male characters got more to do , (which I do, badly) would you honestly show up to tell me I am overreacting? In the grand scheme of things the complaints are minimal yet some of you seem gung ho to pull out stop signs.
Yes, of course people can have issues with how DB treats its female characters, I do as well, and have posted about them before, in this thread even! But, also, it's a forum? If someone disagrees, or has a different viewpoint, their allowed to respond or say something, without someone else saying "Don't Get Caught In Your Feelings!".
I didn't feel like I was implying anything but was being pretty direct. The idea that everyone should turn away from one problem because Dragonball is flawed in other aspects is...stupid. That's all.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Tai Lung » Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:43 pm

Scientist Fu wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 2:58 pm
Tai Lung wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:39 pm
Scientist Fu wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 1:05 am I think both the manga and the anime handle female characters pretty badly... and I genuinely think SDBH has better female characters, which is sad when you think they can do better than Toriyama himself.
considering that most seem fanservice, it does not see that it is true .... it is done to sell cards ... the cute designs sell
I don't think that's a valid argument. Every character get cards, not only females. + Towa came out way before SDBH, she was introduced in a video game (Dragon Ball Online), and all the female characters from SDBH have their role, such as Chronoa (Supreme Kai of Time), Aeos (ex-Supreme Kai of Time), Towa (the main female antagonist), Putine, Robelu, Lagss etc they are not just housewives. And that's much better than most of the DBZ female characters, imo.
maybe it's because none of them seem iconic to me... I can't even remember any names.... more than just duplicates of chronoa....

only towa stands out but I think it is because he has had more appearances .....

Peril wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:45 pm
For me it is her bratty behavior despite her age. She apparently can't read, is very weak, becomes a victim of Roshi. Her issue regarding Tien is dumb, her very existence steals time away from Tien in his own episode to prove he's capable of being in ToP, before that opportunity jumps over him and is given to Roshi. And her name sounds like the polite word for piss. She is a shallow gag character showing up at the wrong time and place. A perfect storm.
It just seems to me ... "not funny" but I didn't get to hate her

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Peril » Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:11 pm

Tai Lung wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:43 pm
Peril wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:45 pm
For me it is her bratty behavior despite her age. She apparently can't read, is very weak, becomes a victim of Roshi. Her issue regarding Tien is dumb, her very existence steals time away from Tien in his own episode to prove he's capable of being in ToP, before that opportunity jumps over him and is given to Roshi. And her name sounds like the polite word for piss. She is a shallow gag character showing up at the wrong time and place. A perfect storm.
It just seems to me ... "not funny" but I didn't get to hate her
Hate might be too strong but when I use it, its almost always hypebole. I just dislike her strongly and if she never comes back, I'd be okay with that.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Scientist Fu » Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:43 pm

maybe it's because none of them seem iconic to me... I can't even remember any names.... more than just duplicates of chronoa....

only towa stands out but I think it is because he has had more appearances .....
I agree, they are not iconic at all. But not being iconic does not make a character bad. That's just my point of view so there's not much else to say here.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by super michael » Fri Mar 03, 2023 7:12 am

In Dragon Ball there are great female characters, such as these below:

Bulma
Android 18
Caulifla
Kefla
Kale
Mai present and future
Videl
Pan
Cheelai

Those are the ones I remember now.
  • Android 18 made Vegeta look like a complete weakling.
  • Bulma she is the reason that the Z fighters were able to resurrect and change the past to a good future.
  • Cheelai freed Broly from his father control and helped him
  • Mai was a big help in both time line
  • Caulifla is interested in learning as much as possible in Saiyan power and improve her fighting skills. She has no problem with fusion.
  • Videl a normal human decided to learn the truth about the Cell Games. She fights crimes and protects innocent people. She is no coward, she fights even when outmatched like in the tournament.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Peril » Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:30 am

I sort of want to play devils advocate and look at the other side of the argument. Not too long ago I saw a youtube stream by some dude named Emosh. He saw an article on Twitter which criticized DB because all of the womenz are house wives.
https://youtu.be/rc2weVv7hag?t=2929 time stamped to relevant part.

Emosh disagrees and basically "all lives matters" it. So his tl;dr is everybody who isn't goku and vegeta gets shafted, so complaining that dragon ball is sexist is "woke bullshit". Though I would argue the opposite, even at its best, female characters got nothing to do. Characters like Chichi choosing to marry a martial artist only to paradoxically hate fighting as soon as she gives birth to Gohan.

Videl getting her fighting spirit beat out of her during a tournament and only just now getting it back through the word that she runs a dojo or something now. Though it has yet to be seen.

18 is kind of an outlier since she was technically a bad guy when she was the most active as a fighter, so it could be argued if she was never turned into an android, martial arts would have never been a part of her life.

Bulma is still okay though these days I just see her as lady who flies plane and is aggravatingly obsessed with her looks.

Mai is depressed until she thinks about Future Trunks

Caulifla and Kale are over corrective mary sues

Macki. Why did Toyotaro even bother creating her?

https://www.animesenpai.net/dragon-ball ... fe-roles/ Here is the article I think.

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Thani » Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:16 pm

Macki is a really egregious case, almost same as Oil. The fact that she's actually stronger than Elec but still gets blindsided by a pimp slap (that should be slow as hell to her perception) is honestly unbelievable. Toyo could have easily had her catching Elec's hand or be unaffected by the slap and act surprised by either outcome.

Plus they're siblings. They're close. They act close. HOW did noone realise Elec was the weakest of them?

Basically, I"m not a fan of Toyo's writing style. Small wonder I didn't particularly like his "solo" arcs (and even his renditions of the other arcs didn't sit too well with me).

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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by PurestEvil » Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:56 pm

Thani wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:16 pm Macki is a really egregious case, almost same as Oil. The fact that she's actually stronger than Elec but still gets blindsided by a pimp slap (that should be slow as hell to her perception) is honestly unbelievable. Toyo could have easily had her catching Elec's hand or be unaffected by the slap and act surprised by either outcome.
Honestly, it felt like Oil and Maki’s purpose was to respectively act like a fool and a smartass then get fucked off into freeza’s army.
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Re: Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:53 pm

Peril wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:30 am Emosh disagrees and basically "all lives matters" it. So his tl;dr is everybody who isn't goku and vegeta gets shafted, so complaining that dragon ball is sexist is "woke bullshit". Though I would argue the opposite, even at its best, female characters got nothing to do. Characters like Chichi choosing to marry a martial artist only to paradoxically hate fighting as soon as she gives birth to Gohan.
chichi literally believed that she should marry goku because he "touched" her... without knowing that goku just wanted to know if it was a girl or not
she chased him to the tournament for the false promise.... everything is literally a bad joke
Peril wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:30 am Caulifla and Kale are over corrective mary sues
merus is mary sue .... but caulifla and kale no .... but on manga are boring

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