Dragon Ball Super as I would have preferred it to be written

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Geraldo
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Dragon Ball Super as I would have preferred it to be written

Post by Geraldo » Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:11 pm

I believe that the consensus in the fandom is that DBS was a subpar product in comparison to its predecesors (OG and Z); and I also believe that it's due to 3 factors:
1. Toriyama - having made his fortune, he doesn't feel like he needs to "work out" more than writing a few paragraphs of basic or very basic story points and let the writers hired by Toei Animation and Toyotaro handle it from there.
2. Uchida - I feel like this guy is not a good story editor, something about him just shouts: "childish" and "CRINGE!!" all over.
3. The decision to make this product "kids-targeted" and the placement of it's manga in V-Jump, as if to tell Toyotaro: "It's no matter how hard you'll work on this manga, you're just here to create a promotional manga for the anime" and once the anime ended he got stuck in the loop of getting his ideas chopped and trimmed by Uchida.

I would have tried a different formula:

Right after the defeat of Kid Buu there could have been a few stories set within Gohan and Videl's college/1st degree years instead of jumping right into him being married and holding a degree in "Battle of Gods" when the last we saw of them was being 16/17 years old (depends on the source, Daizenshuu 7 or the Dragon Ball: Super Exiciting Guide).

Lets say that there was a canonical version of "Wrath of the Dragon", only without the forced/cringed connection they tried to form between Trunks and Tapion so he could illogically give him Future Trunks' sword, happening right at the 1st semester of Gohan and Videl's college years.
It's the winter break, Sharpner and Erasa invite Gohan and Videl to sit down with them at the cafeteria, discussing Sharpner's dream of becoming a professional baseball player. Videl mentions that they are good friends with Yamcha, which hypes Sharpner's hopes of meeting a real professional superstar.
Suddenly a lightning strucks the fields outside of their university, they believe it's a thunderstorm that's starting and enter the building.
Turns out Hoy, who followed Gohan's strength from his battle with Super Buu, has finally landed on Earth.
Hoy is hoping that Gohan is strong enough to open the magical music box to release Hirudegarn, by lying to him that his wife is stuck inside, but this plan doesn't work. Gohan suggests using the Dragon Balls to break the seal of the music box, leading to the events of the movie.

Then there's a timeskip to the 2 years mark of Kid Buu's death, with Mr. Satan celebrating the engagement of Videl and Gohan in his new luxury hotel, which is disrupted by the appearance of Tarble and Gure, and later by the battle against Abo and Cado (closely followed by Sorbet, Tagoma and Shisami via their outer space spy cameras; breaking their hopes to one day revive Frieza and King Cold). Launch's appearance in the crowd isn't just a cameo, and she's almost killed by Aka who goes wild, but Chiaotzu telekinetically catches the debris and tosses them aside.

Then, after "Battle of Gods" (where all the Z-Fighters took part in trying to stop Beerus before Goku arrives to fight/stand up to the God of Destruction), the Gelbi and Snackians episode happens, Pan is born, and Vegeta goes to train under Whis and after a few months Goku follows him. The two of them grew from being lower than Frieza's 120,000,000 in base to the realms of Semi-Perfect Cell, and now learn how to turn Super Saiyan God without the ceremony. It doesn't take too long for Champa and Vados to crash the party and lead to the Champa Saga and to launch Super's premise of exploring the multiverse. Yes, Resurrection 'F' is a failure in my opinion both as a story full of flaws and both conceptually and therefore it's removed. The introduction of Super Saiyan Blue was too rushed and therefore won't happen till much later in the story. Jaco makes his debut in the episode where Bulma goes to see Zuno, there the Galactic Patrolman fights and arrests Burpman the orange frog alien.

Gohan and Piccolo know that they can't stay rusty if a threat like Beerus will ever set the lives of their loved ones in danger, and train internally. At one point Gohan asks Piccolo whether Nail ever got his potential unlocked by Guru, Nail responsed that he always rejected the Namekian Grand Elder's offer and trained on his own. Piccolo suggests that they will ask Baba to bring Guru for 24 hours so that he and the Human Z-Fighters who never got their power unleashed, will get that power boost as a backup against Beerus or any other threat that may come their way. (In my opinion it's a good way to explain his performance against Frost and more logical than if he waited for "Super Hero" to pull such a thing off, rather than right after getting beaten up by Beerus who was only tapping him with chop sticks).

Launch is seen driving like a maniac and crash landing into Tien and Chiaotzu's farm, as she broke out of prison for the 100th time, a thing that is explained by her biography in "Dragon Ball Online", and now lives with Tien and Chiaotzu.
Tien who thus far was a-romantic realizes that Master Roshi's life is miserable and is kind of jealous of his married friends who have families of their own, so he and Chiaotzu go on a mission to collect the Dragon Balls and wish that Launch will remain good permanently, they take advantage of the fact Pilaf and his gang are wasting their time in speaking to Shenron (they opted to wish for world domination, again as Akira Toriyama wrote in DBO) but got startled when Trunks showed up to ask Mai out.

Goku and Vegeta train for one day in the Room of Spirit and Time (instead of 3 years, as there's no way that the Universe 6 fighters were so ridiculously powerful) and 2 more days in Whis' Staff, and use their normal Super Saiyan forms and turn SSG only when it comes to fighting Hit. Monaka is only a weakling when he's not pushed to extreme anxiety, but when that happens his body bulks up and his power level rises to around that of Super Buu with Gotenks and Piccolo Absorbed (still nothing in comparison to Hit's, but at least he's worthy of a spot on Beerus' team instead of the over occupied Gohan). Hit secretly throws away the fight because he hates feeling like a pawn in the conflict of Beerus and Champa, much to Champa's anger.

The Potafeu Arc happens with SSG as the Top Form the Saiyans have. The Zamasu Arc happens right after, but this time there is NO Future Trunks NOR Goku Black involved! Zamasu watched the Goku vs. Hit match via Gowasu's GodTube account one day and decided that Mortals pose a real threat to the Gods if they'll keep on getting so strong, and since the other Gods are failing to see that, he must take action to his own hands. He soon learns about the Super Dragon Balls from Gowasu and secretly goes on a mission to collect them. He wishes to become the Strongest Warrior in the Multiverse, but Super Shenron explains he can't fulfill such a wish due to the natural order of the multiverse; Zamasu manages to outsmart his physical limitations by wishing to transform his body to be immune to Mortals' attacks, no matter how powerful they are.

Soon after, Zamasu who had enough of Gowasu's trust in the mortals, slays Gowasu (alongside Ramushi and Cos) and declares himself as the Ruler of Universe 10.
Through the murdering of almost all the Supreme Kais he nullifies the Gods of Destruction and Angels and starts operating directly against their strongest mortals. He has slain every member of Team Universe 6 but Hit who forces him to retreat back ot Universe 10. Beerus finds out about Champa's death due to Zamasu's actions and calls Shin over to stay next to him and Whis for protection and upon Goku to organize his strongest team and head out for Universe 10.
Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan and Majin Buu go to Universe 10 where Zamasu's homebase is stationed and are joined by Muchirim and his team from the Tournament of Power (which won't happen this time).

They're confronting and fighting Zamasu on the Kaioshin Realm of Universe 10. The joint effort of Team Universe 7 and Team Universe 10 fails to defeat the rouge Kaioshin who only grows stronger by each harsh blow he'd endured, and after getting fed up with the mortals calling him a disgrace to the Kaioshins, had transform himself into the look of a warlord to distinguish himself and his race members whom he openly mock as "failures".

Zamasu beats Majin Buu and declares that now he can finally defeat even the likes of Goku and Hit who scared him to his bones not too long ago.

Goku and Vegeta turn into Super Saiyan God, but barely scratch him. To "clear the battlefield from nuisance", Zamasu kills the weaker members of Team Universe 10 and seriously injures everyone aside from Obuni, who alongside Gohan and Piccolo try to kill Zamasu whose power level rose by each tantrum he has undergone.
Goku and Vegeta use their Super Saiyan God forms to their fullest but still barely scratch him. Zamasu turns to unleash his "Divine Justice", but Gohan goes on a suicide mission to stop him, and get piereced through his chest and tossed to the ground.

Seeing that horror, Goku's rage explodes and he manages to pull a Super Saiyan transformation stacked upon his Super Saiyan God form, thus introducing Super Saiyan Blue to the world. Being 50 times stronger than before Goku manages to overcome Zamasu's peak in power and uses his God Ki based attacks to break Zamasu's arms and legs, he then proceeds to headbutting his jaw and breaks his teeth as well.

Zamasu is dying on the ground but refuses to give up on his grand plan of annihilating all sapient mortals. Gohan is healed by Majin Buu and while Goku who sees that is calm, and lowers his guard while thanking Buu, Zamasu shoots a fingerbeam into his heart and critically injures him. With everyone shocked, Zamasu turns on his broken feet and claims that it should only take him a few minutes to heal his broken body (due to knowing the healing technique and due to his highly powerful body granted by Super Shenron).

Out of nowhere a purple shade of sparkles moves through Zamasu with tremendous speed and slice him in half. Turns out Hit came to this realm using Champa's Interdimensional Cube and was lurking for quite some time, looking for an opening to avenge his fallen team mates and deities.

The Zamasu Arc concludes with the Warriors gathering the Super Dragon Balls and wishing for the undoing of Zamasu's deeds. Everything returns to normal (the Watagash mini-saga happens right after, with Gohan turning a bit rusty after putting his career as scholar first). Or at least seemingly, as Universe 7 had been infected by the evil magic of a Demon Realm crook called "Janemba" who plans to merge between the two realms and devour the souls of the living for the rest of eternity...

So, what do you think?

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Aim
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Re: Dragon Ball Super as I would have preferred it to be written

Post by Aim » Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:09 am

Ngl, better than multiverse. But it isn’t really Dragon Ball imo, it’s just structured far too different to really be considered Dragon Ball.

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Geraldo
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Re: Dragon Ball Super as I would have preferred it to be written

Post by Geraldo » Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:10 am

Aim wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:09 am Ngl, better than multiverse.

Thanks for the compliment! :)
But it isn’t really Dragon Ball imo, it’s just structured far too different to really be considered Dragon Ball.
**Camera rolls into a dark room, focuses on a work desk with a lamp with mild light working, the chair is turned against the watcher, it turns around with the cat from the logo of Toei Animation revealed as the occupant, the camera closes up on his face, he smiles and whispers: "That's why it's called "Super"!"**

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Re: Dragon Ball Super as I would have preferred it to be written

Post by FatLee » Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:42 am

With the best will in the world, and without trying to be a backseat moderator, I think a lot of these questions you have don't often need topics themselves - almost all of them that I've seen already have topics that are designed for questions like yours. :)

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Re: Dragon Ball Super as I would have preferred it to be written

Post by Geraldo » Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:10 pm

Just saw that my phone's autocorrect replaced "intensively" with "internally". :eh:

Also, I would have the Z-Fighters use Old Kaioshin's Potential Unleashing technique via the Room of Spirit and Time after the battle against Zamasu. Beerus will ask him for a personal favor to power up his Team Universe 7 for any other dire situation. Piccolo will be the first to undergo the procedure, followed by Krillin, Yamcha, Tien, Chiaotzu and Master Roshi (who wishes to return to the battlefield and aid his students and friends).

The Androids' power levels are said to be naturally weak, and only as powerful as they are thanks to Dr. Gero's gear installed with their bodies. Leaving them to get their power boosts only through training.

Vegeta will obviously decline this procedure and Goku will reject it because he feels it's a shortcut in getting stronger. Beerus will slap the two of them silly for going against his plans, but Whis will drag him aside and will tell him he'll train them as hard as possible, so he should not worry.

Majin Buu's dormant power is crazy strong and Old Kaioshin will say it's beyond his powers to even handle. Leaving Buu to become powerful as "he feels" (there's no limit to his growth). Just like Toriyama once said. Mr. Satan will personally train Buu and help him become "Thin/Fit Buu", by the Janemba Arc.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super as I would have preferred it to be written

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:22 pm

I like this. Wrath of the Dragon could even explain how Goku became stronger, although canonizing the Ryuken may not be a good idea since Goku never uses it again. I also really like Shin Budokai's adaptation of the Janemba movie with a Future Trunks guest appearance, but I think it gets a bit too messy with all the movie cameos like Future Metal Cooler. Ultimately I don't think any of the original movies needs to be canonized.

With BoGs, the only difference should be power level related: Toyotaro was right on the money by not having Goku absorb SSJG in the end. I'd also prefer if it happened after EoZ, but including Oob in the plot would change things too much unless he's irrelevant and forgettable like he was in GT.

Since you made Piccolo get his potential unlocked earlier, why not make Super Hero happen before RoF? Cell Max as a Majin Boo-level threat is much more credible. I also think Moro should happen in this timeframe: Replace UI with SSJG, get rid of the awful Senzu scene and it all fits. Maybe the Granolah Saga too, but it was so pointless that it's probably better to just avoid it completely.

For the rest of the sagas, I think I'd be satisfied by the sum of the highlights of the anime and manga and getting rid of the bad stuff like Goku snubbing Vegeta's kill in RoF. Plus replace 17 with Future Trunks: I love 17 as much as the next person, but Trunks totally deserved the role.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super as I would have preferred it to be written

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Dec 24, 2022 9:52 pm

I don't like your idea for the Zamasu arc at all.

The refreshing thing of the Zamasu arc is not only that we have an evil Kaioshin but that we have a villain duo that never falters in their alliance and work very well as a team. Not only that but the heroes never win by the end of the arc, everyone loses. There's finally real consequences in the series.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super as I would have preferred it to be written

Post by The Golden God » Sun Dec 25, 2022 8:28 pm

Make SSG SS4 instead is what I would have wanted. No SSB, and Ultra Instinct could just be SS5, like a Golden SS4 design using SS4 as a “new base form” sort of like SSGSS.

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