Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by nineko » Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:27 pm

Excellent chapter!

Some sparse points:
  • there is the internet (even named as such) in the Dragon World now (page 11);
  • I like how Trunks' characterisation is mostly consistent with how he's portrayed in the second episode of Dragon Ball GT (as seen in MistareFusion's recent dissection), he doesn't want to be a manager, he craves for adventure;
  • it's interesting to note that Hedo's android is from an "Alpha" series, and we all know that the androids in the Super Hero movie are from the "Gamma" series, this leads me to think that there's going to be a "Beta" series somewhere inbetween, I wonder if they planned this logical naming progression in advance when they wrote the movie, or if it's only a happy coincidence;
  • speaking of names, it looks like the students carry on the theme first seen in Z with Sharpner and Erasa, since we now got Kompas and Rulah. What's next, Penzil and Scizor? Wait, the latter is already a Pokémon, then again we did get a Caterpie in the afterlife tournament, so who knows;
  • the helper bots at the bottom of page 29 kinda look like Zeno;
  • I totally ship Trunks × Mai, by the way. Mai has been my favourite female character in all Dragon Ball since the very beginning.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Tue Dec 20, 2022 4:28 pm

Yeah, that was pretty fun. A bit bland and basic, but a refreshing change of pace.

When the previews came out, I remember thinking that the "superheroes posing in front of bemused petty criminals" gag was a bit tired, but the reveal of them imitating some lame recycling mascot was a fairly funny twist on the idea. The characterisation is solid, reckon there was definitely some inspiration taken from GT in the presentation of Trunks as an irresponsible slacker on the way to inheriting the family business, albeit much goofier. His new classmates could be cool additions to the cast.

Goten is an okay straight-man but it's a pretty boring usage of him. He's always struggled to stand out as his own character. Trunks getting all the gags feels uneven, maybe Goten should've had the Scooby-Doo-esque fear of ghouls. Either way, Goten pointing out the ridiculousness of Trunks' phobia when their own fathers are technically undead several times over was satisfying. Not much else to say really, it was alright.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Tue Dec 20, 2022 4:42 pm

Feels pointless to make a prequel to Super Hero. I would rather have a story set right after Super Hero.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:08 pm

Makes sense Trunks is freaked out by ghosts. After all, he knows they can explode ;)

This Chapter was hecka fun. And holy crap, 55 pages?? A packed Chapter in every sense (including the panelling, which is perhaps a bit of an artistic regression, but since there wasn't any Granolah arc-scale action treatment, but generally just comedy convos and narrative stuff, that's mostly fine overall).

I like that Trunks gets characterisation as a classic Toriyama-style goof who wants to come off as cool, which stands behind a lot of the way he presents himself to everyone (see also: Gohan, Neko Majin, Jaco; but also Batistabus' observation that Trunks has an actually cool self casting a shadow over him seems apposite when considering his Mai-related travails: like Toriyama says, girls like Future Trunks, kids like Kid Trunks...but I guess nobody likes goofy teen Trunks, yet), while Goten's more straightforward. I particularly liked the gushing fan treading all over Trunks' 'cool intro', which was a fun, different way of thwarting the attempt at cool.

And there was the (expected, for Toyorarou) fun classic series callback stuff (see, e.g., the littering driver looks very like the speeding driver Gohan stops as Great Saiyaman in DB #423; the obvious Frankenstein connection between the zombies generally, the remote-toting zombie henchman in particular, and Android #8, etc.) mixed in with the Super Hero-specific connections that look forward to the movie.

Just the kind of light fare I was hoping to see, and which has overall been in too short supply for Super since the Universe 6 Tournament arc; hopefully Toyotarou will be able to keep this general vibe while taking the opportunity to increasingly mix in some cool action stuff for an enjoyable balance.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by YMK_8000 » Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:34 pm

3 months for this and it’s the best you can do????

Aggressively lame and uneventful is what I’d have to sum up this chapter. .Nothing really happens? Also Didn’t goten and trunks think great saiyaman was lame before? 3

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Trouser » Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:56 pm

I like that Trunks wants more adventures, but... I hate what Goten said, I hate that he "never been great with computers". I mean, what the fcuk? He is going to be the president of Capsule Corporation. He is going to fix spaceships. He is going to fix an artifical intelligence a.k.a. DB4649T2006RS... I hate it.
I'd get it if he just didn't like computers, but it should've be natural for him to be great with them. This is my only gripe with this chapter. It's nice to see older Trunks, but the presentation here is just bad.

And you people please don't start with "GT is not canon". They (Toei and Toyotarou) are clearly considering it as a "future" even if it doesn't fit now (everything could be retconned and rewritten, it's fiction).

Also, I want my boy Goten to be ladies man, just like in EoZ and GT. I mean, not in the wrong way.

Considering that I HATE what was done to Trunks, I'm interested in what happens next. We finally got something without boring Goku and Vegeta (and Gohan - talking about the movie).
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by StevenPiccolo » Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:02 pm

Writing this before I read any other replies so I don’t get influenced so sorry if I’m being redundant to everything else going on in the thread but…I loved this a lot more than I thought I would. I never thought about Mai growing up (her physical body) as well but I suppose they want to keep the Trunks and Mai thing going…probably the part I like the least.

Didn’t expect them to go to such a preppy school. I really like that it showed their fellow classmates. The action scenes were okay. Really really love the dialogue between the two, especially when Trunks was commenting on how there might not be a place for superheroes in society anymore. Trunks on his way to school was my favorite part, there was just a nice whimsical air to it…

I can’t see this lasting for more than one more chapter (no idea if it was stated already how long this would go on) but that be my bias speaking because I’m not the biggest Trunks fan in the world. Maybe it’ll be Goten focused next but as much as I love the kid, I can understand why they might not wanna go that route.

In regards to timeline stuff, don’t remember anything about Pan’s age and how old she should be by now, but iirc Goku and Vegeta went to Beerus three weeks before the movie. But like it was stated before, Hedo was in jail for three months. I guess Goku and Vegeta went back again a separate time, with Broly, since we saw in the film that Beerus had fallen asleep and woke up again. Maybe that was obvious but it took me a minute lol
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:04 pm

The only thing that I found funny is Trunks' interaction with Mai, even though others don't like it, but it shows the new personality of both...
Everything related to the superhero who cleans seems quite cringe to me... I don't know, was all that necessary?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:50 pm

Great chapter. It's feels good to finally have teen Goten/Trunks in modern DB and a story revolving around them. DBS anime did a great job with slice of life content and now the manga is doing it too. Don't know how many chapter left until it overlaps with the movie, but hopefully a lot more.

Good to see Miles Morales and Gwen Stacy in the same school than them. Love those two. :P

Those corpses were the Alpha series. Maybe next Hedo will create a Beta series which will also be defeated, before he comes up with the Gammas we know.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:11 pm

Man, this chapter was charming as fuck.

What a return to form. But the Granolah Arc started pretty promising too...

With that said, actual black people! Actual diversity in Dragonball! Good shit! Great shit!

Edit: Forgot to mention, it's very cool that this chapter has so much characterization for Goten and Trunks. Their dynamic evolving from just Goten following to Goten also being the straightman and Trunks adding even more eccentricities to his leadership is good. Good writing all around.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bardock God of Time » Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:30 pm

Imagine if the actor of the Cleaning Superhero died and Hedo uses him to fight Goten & Trunks

The Cleaning Superhero would be the Final Boss of this arc lol

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by fleahop » Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:18 pm

Apologies if this has already been brought up somewhere, but there is some really neat worldbuilding happening that goes all the way back to early DB here.

This chapter included explanations for how Pilaf's machines were made (his stuff was always advanced) and how he is useful to his group beyond being bossy. I also wonder if Bulma is secretly aware of who Pilaf and the gang are as she isn't surprised by his actions at all. The chapter also makes connections in writing and story-style to more early DB stuff, with characters doing things beyond fight, train, fight.

The most interesting thing to me, though, is that Eighter (Android 8) may be an "Alpha" series android. Considering that Hedo is going off of Gero's research and that his zombie-style androids seem similar in design to Eighter, I believe this makes the most sense.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cipher » Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:49 pm

Trouser wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:56 pm And you people please don't start with "GT is not canon". They (Toei and Toyotarou) are clearly considering it as a "future" even if it doesn't fit now (everything could be retconned and rewritten, it's fiction).
I … really don’t think this is true, considering both Toyotaro and Toei have been re-adapting GT designs and concepts into Super (precluding their future use for those actual elements of GT), and ancillary material like the Heroes fiction has been explicit about it being an alternate branch of events and even having GT-esque characters meet their Super-esque selves. It’s in very Earth-B territory, and I don’t think there’s been any attempt to dance around its relationship to new material since … serialized Super started?

Toyotaro seems to have taken the approach of present Trunks being a bit of a spoiled jock, which doesn’t contradict anything we ever see of his adult self in the extremely brief glimpses we get in the epilogue of the original series. He’s no whiz kid as an eight-year-old in DB either.

Anyway, general thoughts:
  • Despite being lukewarm on the idea of a movie prequel (so it makes for … a midquel within a midquel), it was super cute and fun.
  • The art is (refreshingly?) back to the super dense pages of the early series. Idk; it kind of works. The action paneling also feels like it falls back more on Toyotaro’s early-series tropes this go-around though, after two arcs of scaling them back.
  • I kind of wish I knew nothing about where this was going, because the idea of an arc starting with Trunks-Goten high school antics and culminating in Gohan and Piccolo transforming against a giant Cell would be right in line with the unplanned twists and turns of the original.
  • … But then Gohan’s transformation would probably way too derivative debuting in a manga, as it skates by as an homage due to the different medium/SH being a one-off film. So, if it does a whole adaptation, will the arc manage to feel like it stands on its own?
  • Seemingly telegraphed prediction: Hedo will have the Beta series running the convenience store alluded to in the film, which will lead to his arrest, ending the Trunks-Goten-centric portion.
  • One thing that really comes across even in these adaptation(-ish) chapters, and this has been true in DBS up to now, and in Victory Mission, and even AF, rough as it is, is Toyotaro’s absolute sincerity toward the characters, and joy in getting to play with their dynamics. It’s probably the single thing that most keeps me feeling cold toward the TV version of Super, and something that endears me to the manga in spite of any other pitfalls it’s ever had (and I’d argue it’s been pretty good anyway).

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:55 pm

YMK_8000 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:34 pm 3 months for this and it’s the best you can do????

Aggressively lame and uneventful is what I’d have to sum up this chapter. .Nothing really happens? Also Didn’t goten and trunks think great saiyaman was lame before? 3
The problem with goten and trunks was never that... "they don't grow up" it wouldn't matter if they were still children...and it really hadn't changed that much...the thing is that they are still generally used "comic relief" for fun adventures but that will not contribute anything else unlike gohan and piccolo

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:03 pm

Goten and Trunks not being anything like their dads is a good thing. Hell, Trunks—son of the genius Blooma—hating the idea of following in her footsteps is also a good idea. There's no point in having them repeat previous characters' arcs or having Trunks copy the Dragon Ball GT version of the character. I got a copy of Dragon Ball GT on my shelf, I'll go watch that if I really wanted to. Hell, I could write a fan fic.

Like, Toyo-tarou nailed down pretty basic writing guidelines in this chapter. We should not be discouraging that.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jackalope89 » Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:07 am

It was a fun little story. Can be considered self-contained from the looks, if just to give us a "what were Goten and Trunks up to?" kind of thing. If it gets expanded a bit, I'm good with that too.

What I want to know; does Bulma remember Pilaf, Mai, and Shuu? Because at their current ages (Future Mai aside), they easily resemble their beginning of Dragon Ball selves enough that it should make something click.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by dragonballhero » Wed Dec 21, 2022 1:11 am

Honestly, the chapter was pretty fun, all things considered!

I will say this though, I really hope the next chapter will be more Goten-focused, especially if this chapter was meant to serve as an intro to the 'new Trunks'. I forgot who brought it up in this very thread, but I agree with them over the idea that it might NOT have been such a good idea to make GOTEN the 'straight-man' of the duo. With the current 'quirks' this Trunks seems to have, I feel like Goten now comes off as even MORE bland than he originally was by comparison.

I'm not saying he needs to borrow elements of Goku and/or Gohan (in fact, I PRAY that that doesn't end up being the case), but (for as controversial as this seems to be) I'm kind of hoping even more now that Goten is the 'lady killer' the fanbase seems to have made him out to be.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Dec 21, 2022 6:37 am

Random and scattered thoughts of Chapter 88:

- Trunks crushing the gun from one of the robbers putting it in a bag and telling the disarmed robber to dispose of his trash properly was a fun bit

- Dino is the cutest animal I've ever seen in Dragon Ball... but I reckon there will be issues with handling him when he grows up

- Nice to see the Pilaf Gang again.

- Ugh... I wish that Trunks/Mai romance still wasn't a thing...

- Diversity in Dragon Ball will always get a thumbs up from me.

- Toyotaro has gotten really good at comedy. Trunks in particular got a few chuckles out of me with his facial expressions, one-liners, and general mannerisms.

Overall thoughts... this chapter was super charming, quite funny, and explored a dynamic with Goten and Trunks' friendship that I didn't even realize I wanted to see until now. Great stuff.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:35 am

This was such a nice change of pace after the Granolah arc. Thoroughly enjoyed it. I loved the way Trunks was characterised throughout it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 88 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:50 am

Man! Now this was interesting!

I have genuinely enjoyed the first chapter, a lot!
Goten and Trunks got more love than in Super and EOZ combined in terms of character.
I am sucker for slice of life with meaningful lore. Still a huge fan of Battle Of Gods Director's Cut, to see where the heroes are at different times and getting the sneak peeks into their lives.

Seeing Trunks and Goten being older and their new dynamic wasn't short of hilarious.
Goten is actually the cool and collected guy, going from his childhood naivety to being actually laidback and casual, with spot on comments.
Trunks being the actual antithesis to Future Trunks, which we've got a glimpse of from GT, but being more Toriyama-like.
Man of science, afraid of ghosts, doesn't want to be an heir to Capsule Corporation nor he is a tech specialist or interested in tech is so Kid Trunks actually. As in GT, he was the CEO and he was a nerdbrain the same way Bulma was.
He kinda fits in to this spoiled kid with gold spoon in his mouth growing up and I love it.

The encounter with Hedo's zombie cyborgs was fun and I wonder, where else they could go and hope that it won't be just two chapters,
as the only thing I am not really thrilled about is that we will get into the Super Hero eventually.
At this point, I don't really care for foreshadowing or more explanation that the manga can serve us for Orange Piccolo and Beast Gohan.
It already happened. When there was a chance to get more behind the SSJ Blue from ROF in the TV show, we've got just some vague glimpse and the rest was hilarious scenes, like Vegeta changing sheets for Beerus. In this regard, I am more for story and fun and less weird transformations like Ego Vegeta or even Vegeta's mix of Ultra SSJ and God just so he has something unique to be on par with Goku's ultra instinct.

More of this please! This is the kind of spin-off I would love to go with and can see going on beyond the EOZ.
I hope this arc doesn't get derailed after the abysmal Granolah.
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