Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

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Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by FoolsGil » Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:28 pm

The Pilaf arc didn't do so hot, the Red Ribbon Arc did worst, and we all know how the first half of the first arc of GT ended. What was it that a more adventure centric Dragonball didn't work out?

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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:18 pm

FoolsGil wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:28 pm The Pilaf arc didn't do so hot, the Red Ribbon Arc did worst, and we all know how the first half of the first arc of GT ended. What was it that a more adventure centric Dragonball didn't work out?
Where is the evidence the Red Ribbon arc did worse?

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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by FoolsGil » Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:33 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:18 pm
FoolsGil wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:28 pm The Pilaf arc didn't do so hot, the Red Ribbon Arc did worst, and we all know how the first half of the first arc of GT ended. What was it that a more adventure centric Dragonball didn't work out?
Where is the evidence the Red Ribbon arc did worse?
If this is one of your favorite arcs I'm not going to get derailed over this. Please answer about the other two, or don't.

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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:08 am

People watched Dragon Ball Z first, got used to the adrenaline rush all the flashy fights with high stakes gave them, and original Dragon Ball didn't feel the same to them.
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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by FoolsGil » Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:55 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:08 am People watched Dragon Ball Z first, got used to the adrenaline rush all the flashy fights with high stakes gave them, and original Dragon Ball didn't feel the same to them.
It's not just western viewers, japanese consumers of the series affected the story enough to pivot, Went into a training and tournament arc after the Pilaf arc, brought the gang back mid RR when Goku initially wrote them off, and GT post Baby was all action.

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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:26 am

FoolsGil wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:33 am If this is one of your favorite arcs I'm not going to get derailed over this. Please answer about the other two, or don't.
I mean...you can't just say that it actively did bad (the thesis of this thread basically) without any evidence and then just dismiss not having evidence about it.

Anyway I think the reasons why the first arc and the first bit of GT sorta failed are two pretty different reasons. The first arc has the feeling of a one-shot to it, is using the backdrop to a classic tale, and is really episodic, I don't think if the series continued as a primarily adventure story it would've bombed, but I don't think the first arc is conducive to getting a following among most people. It didn't really have that much of a niche. And then with GT, it had been nearly 10 years away from all of that, for a series that already didn't have a ton going for it, I think it could've been anything and it would've been shaky to start, but throwing it back to a style of story telling that honestly was not fresh in any viewers mind was a mistake.

But like, I think the early Freeza arc is fairly adventure like untill the Ginyu show up, and that arc was massively popular. The tone was quite different compared to the days of Pilaf, but I don't think adventure must mean comedy. It's sad because I think Toriyama is considerably better at writing stories where fighting doesn't need to solve everything, but I can't imagine by as early as the 22nd Budokai he could get away from that.
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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:53 am

FoolsGil wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:55 amIt's not just western viewers, japanese consumers of the series affected the story enough to pivot, Went into a training and tournament arc after the Pilaf arc, brought the gang back mid RR when Goku initially wrote them off, and GT post Baby was all action.
I know, I didn't specify western audiences because even with countries that started with the original series like Japan, Dragon Ball Z generally fares better, its technically not the better series but it unquestionably has the strongest appeal. The first arc of GT was an experiment that clearly didn't help ratings that had been in decline by the time the Boo arc aired on Fuji TV by bringing back the pure adventurous feel of early Dragon Ball, and so TOEI brought back Z-style stories, and they've clearly never looked back since, because even after Dragon Ball's long hiatus their first long running project (Kai) skipped the first 153 episodes, Super panders to fans who wanted Z-style spectacle, and the movie Blu-Rays put the Z movies first even though they were neither created first, nor set first in terms of internal chronology.
Soppa Saia People wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:26 amBut like, I think the early Freeza arc is fairly adventure like untill the Ginyu show up, and that arc was massively popular. The tone was quite different compared to the days of Pilaf, but I don't think adventure must mean comedy. It's sad because I think Toriyama is considerably better at writing stories where fighting doesn't need to solve everything, but I can't imagine by as early as the 22nd Budokai he could get away from that.
It is, but I think the fact that Freeza is introduced and Vegeta lands the same episode Gohan, Krillin and Bulma arrive on Namek gaves fans no reason to doubt that they could expect a major fight like what they saw in the Saiyan arc, if not an even bigger one, as the trend has been that each new opponent is more powerful than the last.
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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by ClutchBangstrip » Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:04 am

If we accept this premise than I can only speak for myself.

Dragon Ball's battles are simply an unmatched spectacle. Especially considering the fact this includes characters who can destroy planets. An "adventure" from a guy who can destroy whole universes seem kinda lame. Just fight.

Can't remember the last time I seen someone like Superman or Thor go on a legit adventure.

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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by Xeogran » Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:43 pm

FoolsGil wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:28 pmand we all know how the first half of the first arc of GT ended.
It ended good.
Soppa Saia People wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:26 am but throwing it back to a style of story telling that honestly was not fresh in any viewers mind was a mistake.
I found it a fresh change so I disagree. Better way to introduce a main villain through a slow build-up, than just another "appears out of nowhere straight on Earth".

Then you got people complaining about the Super 17 arc which was all action anyway.

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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by Zephyr » Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:06 pm

Regarding the first arc:
According to Torishima, per Toriyama:
Up until the Tenka’ichi Budōkai began, the series hadn’t been all that popular. At the time, Torishima-san told me “your protagonist is rather plain. That’s why it’s not popular”. Personally, since I was doing a fighting story for this series, I had intentionally made the protagonist’s clothing excessively plain. So this annoyed me, but then I figured it out. “Well, let’s increase its popularity” I thought. When I had designed Goku’s character, the words that best represented him were “I want to become strong”. So I thought I’d bring that to the front.
In Toriyama's own words:
I liked adventure more, but it seemed at the time a road manga just wasn’t what people wanted.
According to Torishima himself:
Originally, we started Dragon Ball as a kind of road movie based upon Journey to the West but the ranking started to gradually decline. So we discussed about why this type of story wasn't resonating with readers and why we aren't doing well in the rankings. The conclusion we came to was that Goku, the protagonist, was not strong enough. That he didn't resonate with the readers very well. From there, we discussed a great deal about what Goku should be like. The answer was that Goku wants to get stronger and stronger.
So we have three 'official' answers for the first arc's weak reception: Goku looking too plain, Goku being too weak, and Jump readers just not really wanting a road manga at the time.

---

Regarding the Red Ribbon Army arc:
Toriyama said:
I tried to fight it. (laughs) I had Arale-chan make an appearance, and made things comical, and it felt like a struggle. But in the end, I couldn’t even satisfy myself, so I decided to bite the bullet and make it all about the fighting. Once that decision was out of the way, I felt a lot better.
I couldn't really find anything indicating that the Red Ribbon Army arc was being received poorly, but it sounds like Toriyama himself just wasn't satisfied with it not being about fighting.

---

If we think about this together with the creative process that lead to Dragon Ball, I think it makes sense. Toriyama loved Jackie Chan kung fu movies, which lead to Torishima suggesting a kung fu manga. This resulted in Dragon Boy, which is consistently noted in these interviews to have been very popular and successful. Afterwards, Torishima suggests adding in elements of Journey to the West, which resulted in The Adventure of Tongpoo. The interviews I've linked here don't seem to mention Tongpoo, but the first arc of Dragon Ball took a lot from it; the arc which from the sound of it wasn't as popular as Dragon Boy had been.

Toriyama said:
From the start I had thought in the back of my mind that since it was a shōnen manga it would be better received if I drew battles
So, in the creative process, the "Journey to the West road trip" angle ultimately was a mistaken diversion away from the "Jackie Chan battle" angle that was the original inspiration and successful prototype in the first place.

I think a big reason for these types of stories not panning out as well in Dragon Ball is that the fighting is just more satisfying to more people, the author included. The first arc of Dragon Ball was preceded by Dragon Boy; the Red Ribbon Army arc was preceded by the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc; Dragon Ball GT's first arc was preceded by Dragon Ball Z. In all three of these cases, audiences were shown some fighting story first, and shown some adventure story after. So I wonder if having the highs of the fighting elements already existing as a point of comparison might have resulted in audiences not being as keen on the adventure elements as they may have otherwise been.

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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:21 pm

I think when Toriyama fires on all cylinders with the adventure angle, the results are incredible. The early sections of the Red Ribbon Army and Namek arcs capture this best of all. Some of the worldbuilding of the universe that Toriyama conceptualised towards the end of the series is also pretty compelling, though much of it is left unseen in the manga itself.

Developing interesting locales for the characters to visit is obviously important. The further we go along, Toriyama's famous love for flat, barren locations becomes his downfall. Everywhere looks the fucking same! Even the Kaioshin Realm, which should have probably been this grand, heavenly location, is ultimately just a blank field with a few extra moons orbiting around, and a population of about 2 ½ people. There's nothing special or interesting about it whatsoever. Namek was also very Earth-like, but there was a charming appeal to it -- the idea that this serene, pastoral place is forced to play host to this brutal cat-and-mouse chase sprawling across the entire planet, with Kuririn and Gohan caught in the middle. The context of how it's used in the story makes it compelling and you actually feel bad as it slowly gets destroyed over the course of the arc. Meanwhile, the Kaioshin Realm is so worthless and expendable that the heroes purposefully draw Buu there to minimise the risk of him hurting anyone else.

Just today, I wrote a long post explaining the appeal of the multiverse concept in Dragon Ball, but I can totally see why many people are not jazzed about the idea of an adventure-focused arc set in other universes... because, deep down, there's always an expectation that the locations will be just more variations of Barren Wasteland Planet. Nothing but staging grounds for the next big fight.

Someone illustrated to me why One Piece appeals vastly more than Dragon Ball when it comes to that evergreen sense of adventure. It boils down to the fact that in One Piece, there's nothing like Cell standing in the middle of a ring, doing nothing for however many days until Goku shows up. Even when Luffy and the others build up experience and gain these infamous reputations on the high seas, there's no sense that they have a completely firm grasp of the world and everything in it. They can't just fly or teleport wherever they want. The setting feels like its constantly moving and alive, like there's always something new and weird around the next corner. Dragon Ball is so centred around fighting and climbing higher ladders, yet it often has a problem with leaving the door open for future growth. As the YouTuber PlagueOfGripes elegantly put it, Toriyama keeps blowing his load too early. Bringing it back to the multiverse, Beerus's first explanation of it is tantalising, yet only a few arcs later, we're already seeing Goku face off against a guy confirmed to be the strongest known mortal in the multiverse. Not only that, but we get introduced every other Hakaishin, Kaioshin and Angel all in one sitting. Where can you really go after that? In short, Dragon Ball constantly narrows down its options of what to do next, whereas One Piece has an uncanny ability to expand them with each new adventure. The two series deal in different genres in nearly every practical sense, but you've got to throw a bone to Oda in this comparison.

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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:44 pm

Was the RRA arc really that unpopular? If so, that’s a bit ironic, since the franchise seems to love revisiting that well every now and then.
LoganForkHands73 wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:21 pm I think when Toriyama fires on all cylinders with the adventure angle, the results are incredible. The early sections of the Red Ribbon Army and Namek arcs capture this best of all. Some of the worldbuilding of the universe that Toriyama conceptualised towards the end of the series is also pretty compelling, though much of it is left unseen in the manga itself.

Developing interesting locales for the characters to visit is obviously important. The further we go along, Toriyama's famous love for flat, barren locations becomes his downfall. Everywhere looks the fucking same! Even the Kaioshin Realm, which should have probably been this grand, heavenly location, is ultimately just a blank field with a few extra moons orbiting around, and a population of about 2 ½ people. There's nothing special or interesting about it whatsoever. Namek was also very Earth-like, but there was a charming appeal to it -- the idea that this serene, pastoral place is forced to play host to this brutal cat-and-mouse chase sprawling across the entire planet, with Kuririn and Gohan caught in the middle. The context of how it's used in the story makes it compelling and you actually feel bad as it slowly gets destroyed over the course of the arc. Meanwhile, the Kaioshin Realm is so worthless and expendable that the heroes purposefully draw Buu there to minimise the risk of him hurting anyone else.

Just today, I wrote a long post explaining the appeal of the multiverse concept in Dragon Ball, but I can totally see why many people are not jazzed about the idea of an adventure-focused arc set in other universes... because, deep down, there's always an expectation that the locations will be just more variations of Barren Wasteland Planet. Nothing but staging grounds for the next big fight.

Someone illustrated to me why One Piece appeals vastly more than Dragon Ball when it comes to that evergreen sense of adventure. It boils down to the fact that in One Piece, there's nothing like Cell standing in the middle of a ring, doing nothing for however many days until Goku shows up. Even when Luffy and the others build up experience and gain these infamous reputations on the high seas, there's no sense that they have a completely firm grasp of the world and everything in it. They can't just fly or teleport wherever they want. The setting feels like its constantly moving and alive, like there's always something new and weird around the next corner. Dragon Ball is so centred around fighting and climbing higher ladders, yet it often has a problem with leaving the door open for future growth. As the YouTuber PlagueOfGripes elegantly put it, Toriyama keeps blowing his load too early. Bringing it back to the multiverse, Beerus's first explanation of it is tantalising, yet only a few arcs later, we're already seeing Goku face off against a guy confirmed to be the strongest known mortal in the multiverse. Not only that, but we get introduced every other Hakaishin, Kaioshin and Angel all in one sitting. Where can you really go after that? In short, Dragon Ball constantly narrows down its options of what to do next, whereas One Piece has an uncanny ability to expand them with each new adventure. The two series deal in different genres in nearly every practical sense, but you've got to throw a bone to Oda in this comparison.
It seems like Toriyama is too lazy to really do detailed worldbuilding. Even in the case of Namek, where there is some backstory to explain why there are so few Namekians, and why the planet seems to only have one biome, it’s basically just there to justify why the planet is so lifeless and empty. Toriyama didn’t want to have to put effort into a detailed alien world, so he did the bare minimum.

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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by ABED » Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:52 pm

Even in a fighting series, it's not one or the other. The Freeza arc had both and was the better for it.
WittyUsername wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:44 pm Was the RRA arc really that unpopular? If so, that’s a bit ironic, since the franchise seems to love revisiting that well every now and then.

It seems like Toriyama is too lazy to really do detailed worldbuilding. Even in the case of Namek, where there is some backstory to explain why there are so few Namekians, and why the planet seems to only have one biome, it’s basically just there to justify why the planet is so lifeless and empty. Toriyama didn’t want to have to put effort into a detailed alien world, so he did the bare minimum.
Great point as there seems to be an entire arc with a Red Ribbon connection in every single series.

Regarding worldbuilding, I find it mostly boring. Terms like worldbuilding and lore make it sound grand, but at the end of the day both are just exposition. DB is a story about people fighting, give me what I need to understand the characters and the conflicts. Anything else is a distraction. John Wick 1 is amazing and the most fulfilling of the franchise because it has a very simple story at its core and has minimal world building. 2 delves way more into the world of assassins and it's not nearly as good as a result. The third film is very good, though not as good as the first, because the story is very simple - survive. The worldbuilding is kept to a minimum. Toriyama isn't lazy at all. He simply put his energy into the parts that matter the most - the story and the fights (which are part of the story as they're the payoff).
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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:30 am

ABED wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:52 pm Great point as there seems to be an entire arc with a Red Ribbon connection in every single series.

Regarding worldbuilding, I find it mostly boring. Terms like worldbuilding and lore make it sound grand, but at the end of the day both are just exposition. DB is a story about people fighting, give me what I need to understand the characters and the conflicts. Anything else is a distraction. John Wick 1 is amazing and the most fulfilling of the franchise because it has a very simple story at its core and has minimal world building. 2 delves way more into the world of assassins and it's not nearly as good as a result. The third film is very good, though not as good as the first, because the story is very simple - survive. The worldbuilding is kept to a minimum. Toriyama isn't lazy at all. He simply put his energy into the parts that matter the most - the story and the fights (which are part of the story as they're the payoff).
I would say that the general look and feel of Namek is pretty lazy. It’s a planet that seemingly only has one biome, no night and hardly anyone even lives there. I’m not saying we needed to delve deep into the culture and politics of Namek, but it’s a fairly boring and monotonous location to stay in after a while. There’s a reason TeamFourStar got so much mileage out of pointing out how boring the planet is.

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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by BWri » Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:09 am

Adventure is good, it just needs more stakes and excitement. The noticeable theme with the adventure arcs is that the villains of them aren't very threatening or attention grabbing which doesn't create a lot of interest.

Other fan favorite arcs have some adventure in them though, just truncated in some cases. Piccolo Daimou had characters jet setting around the world looking for ways to defeat the demon king and his hellspawn for instance.
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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by Vijay » Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:31 am

Pilaf Arc didnt have great villain & was more of homage of Journey to West

I dont understand what u mean with RRA Arc. Its fantastic Arc among top tiers of DB/DBZ

I dont consider the other "series" u mentioned as a topic worth talkin.

Adventure done right was RRA, Goku's solo training Arcs up till 23rd TB. Those were great & maybe Namek to some.

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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by DefinitiveDubs » Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:24 pm

I don't think it's JUST because American audiences got used to Z and didn't like the OG because it wasn't as "dark" and "violent". Certainly there is some of that, coupled with early 00s angst, but if you look at Avatar: TLA, that's essentially just a more western Dragon Ball, and kids loved that one. So what's the problem? I think it's a combination of three things:

1. The OG Dragon Ball has pretty dated animation compared to Z. Heck, even compared to some other 80s action shows produced in the west (such as Thundercats) it hasn't held up well. By the time the show started airing on Toonami in 2001, the rest of its lineup looked far more impressive in comparison. Also, Funimation didn't opt to replace the soundtrack like they did for Z and GT. For as much as fans shit on studios replacing the music in anime, back in the late 90s and early 00s, they really were instrumental from a marketing and ratings perspective. Without that, Dragon Ball probably wasn't as engaging to American boys.

2. There are low stakes for a lot of the show. Goku steamrolls most of his opponents. Only a small handful of opponents ever gave him any real issue, and any other fights where he was struggling (or lost) were in tournaments, where it was just a matter of winning or losing the title. Incidentally, this is why Americans have a hard time getting onboard with Superman nowadays: the concept of an invincible hero just doesn't have the same widespread appeal as it once did.

3. For an adventure show, it doesn't have a real end goal. What's the goal in One Piece? Well, it's in the title. What's the goal in Avatar? Defeating the Fire Lord. The goal in Dragon Ball, if the title and opening credits are any indication, is finding the Dragon Balls, but that's not really the case past the first arc. They pretty much fade into the background, while the ACTUAL goal changes with each arc, and only two arcs actually involve saving the world.

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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:30 pm

1. I doubt the replacement score had any substantial impact on the ratings. As an American boy back then, do you think what appealed to us was cheap basement produced synth? And if the terrible quality voice acting wasn't a put off for US audiences, why would the more dated animation? And I think you're overselling how much more dated DB looked in comparison to DBZ.

2. The stakes aren't the galaxy or universe, but the world, and the big stakes don't matter anyway. Does anyone really care? Generally, no because we know the good guys will save the day. What we care about are the emotional and personal stakes.

3. Kids don't care about the end goal. They aren't watching the shows they like to get to the end. They are watching because it's like meeting up with their friends.

It more or less just boils down to Dragon Ball seen as the silly childish less powerful prequel series.
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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by DefinitiveDubs » Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:04 pm

ABED wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:30 pm 1. I doubt the replacement score had any substantial impact on the ratings. As an American boy back then, do you think what appealed to us was cheap basement produced synth? And if the terrible quality voice acting wasn't a put off for US audiences, why would the more dated animation? And I think you're overselling how much more dated DB looked in comparison to DBZ.
Oh please. Yes, as an American boy who grew up in that era, the Faulconer score was seen as badass. Why do you think our generation used it, and saw it, all the time in AMVs, Newgrounds flash movies, or fandubs? Why do you think people, to this day, are editing Kai scenes to the Faulconer score?

Literally no kid, in 2001 (at least not a kid older than 14), was saying "ugh, these baka gaijins will never know the true glory of Kikuchi-san". Funimation wasn't stupid. They market-tested that shit, and they knew what they were doing and what their goals were. Same goes for GT.
ABED wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:30 pm2. The stakes aren't the galaxy or universe, but the world, and the big stakes don't matter anyway. Does anyone really care? Generally, no because we know the good guys will save the day. What we care about are the emotional and personal stakes.
YOU care about that, because you're not a child and appreciate more mature storytelling. As a child, it's all about "the fate of the planet".
ABED wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:30 pm3. Kids don't care about the end goal. They aren't watching the shows they like to get to the end. They are watching because it's like meeting up with their friends.
No, I think I watched Samurai Jack because I really did want to see his latest effort to go back to the past. If we didn't care about the end goal, we wouldn't have been so upset about the show getting cancelled after 4 seasons.

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Re: Why doesn't the series appeal as an adventure series?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:43 pm

DefinitiveDubs wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:24 pm I don't think it's JUST because American audiences got used to Z and didn't like the OG because it wasn't as "dark" and "violent". Certainly there is some of that, coupled with early 00s angst, but if you look at Avatar: TLA, that's essentially just a more western Dragon Ball, and kids loved that one.
The problem with the Avatar comparison is Avatar wasn't tied to a property kids were already familiar with. Dragon Ball was. Dragon Ball had an uphill battle due to most of Z having already aired.

1. Kids who didn't like DBZ but might have enjoyed Dragon Ball's more comedic approach weren't going to watch it because as far as they were concerned "I hate Dragon Ball Z why would I Iike this Dragon Ball?"

2. For the kids who did like DBZ a series that wasn't going to include fan favorites like Vegeta or Future Trunks or Gohan and didn't have concepts that kids clung to like power levels and Super Saiyan wasn't going to very appealing to most of them. And certainly the Toonami promos playing it up as a Flintstone Kids type spin off didn't help.

Dragon Ball wasn't allowed to exist and thrive on its own merits it was forced to exist as an extension of Z and all the baggage that comes with it.


. Also, Funimation didn't opt to replace the soundtrack like they did for Z and GT. For as much as fans shit on studios replacing the music in anime, back in the late 90s and early 00s, they really were instrumental from a marketing and ratings perspective.
They really weren't. Most other anime that aired on Toonami kept its original music. It was just DBZ, DBGT, and the first two seasons of Sailor Moon that had replacement soundtracks. It's a practice Funimation themselves pretty stopped doing after Z with the exception of GT. And likely the only reason it continued with GT is because Funimation approached GT as "it didn't do well in Japan and the fans who have seen it don't like it, so we have to completely reversion it"

Its not a coincidence "the Japanese music sucks!!!" mentality from fans only exist for shows that had a replacement soundtrack and then switched back to the original score.

Leaving the Kikuchi music alone for the airings of Dead Zone and World's Strongest didn't hurt Dragon Ball Z's popularity. Dragon Ball Z managed to be a success worldwide with every other non-English dub leaving the music alone. But we got to still pretend Faulconer's music made DBZ popular and not the other way around.

It's 2023 lets stop pretending replacement soundtracks exist for any reason other than to make dubbing companies money by charging royalties for their own music
2. There are low stakes for a lot of the show. Goku steamrolls most of his opponents. Only a small handful of opponents ever gave him any real issue, and any other fights where he was struggling (or lost) were in tournaments, where it was just a matter of winning or losing the title. Incidentally, this is why Americans have a hard time getting onboard with Superman nowadays: the concept of an invincible hero just doesn't have the same widespread appeal as it once did.
Plenty of shows have absurdly low stakes and are still successful with children.
3. For an adventure show, it doesn't have a real end goal. What's the goal in One Piece? Well, it's in the title. What's the goal in Avatar? Defeating the Fire Lord. The goal in Dragon Ball, if the title and opening credits are any indication, is finding the Dragon Balls, but that's not really the case past the first arc. They pretty much fade into the background, while the ACTUAL goal changes with each arc, and only two arcs actually involve saving the world.
What is the end goal in Pokemon other than a vague "Catch em all and become a Pokemon Master"?

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