Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

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Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:31 pm

So with the news that Alejandro Graue, the voice of Broly in the Argentinan dub of Dragon Ball Super Broly is being replaced by an AI (artificial intelligence) voice what are everyone's thoughts on such technology being used in future Dragon Ball dubs?

I personally sympathise with all the voice actors who are potentially going to lose work because of it. I could see TOEI using it as a way around needing to recast Goku if, God forbid, Nozawa can no longer do it, although I'd still be sad to see this happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wrBjrKXQVY
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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:58 pm

Oh goodie. Late stage capitalism.

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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by Darnis » Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:10 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:58 pm Oh goodie. Late stage capitalism.
Isn't Argentina a socialist country?
Raditz did nothing wrong

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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:29 pm

AI voice recreation is bad and dangerous technology and it is my hope that it is destroyed forever.
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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by ABED » Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:31 pm

It's not a bad technology. It can be used poorly, though.
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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by PurestEvil » Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:36 pm

Darnis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:10 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:58 pm Oh goodie. Late stage capitalism.
Isn't Argentina a socialist country?
It has a market economy, so no.
JulieYBM wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:29 pm AI voice recreation is bad and dangerous technology and it is my hope that it is destroyed forever.
Apart from the hypothetical possibility of this AI program rendering voice actors obsolete and phasing them out, what is dangerous about it? Identity theft? Creating misinformation?
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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:43 pm

Can we get a little background on this specific example for the non-native speakers (e.g., me!)? I don't know what the situation is with Alejandro Graue, and a super fast Google search didn't tick any lightbulbs for me.

Have they retired? Unfortunately passed away? (Dare we say, another Broly sex pest? Certainly hope to Dende not!)

What about this role in particular, versus other roles in the series, has made the producers go this route?

I'm definitely of two (very unequal) minds on this. I have that part of me that absolutely believes in technology and the human ingenuity that both creates and propels it, while at the same time I love art of all types and believe in the sometimes-intangible quality of a "real" human creation (in this case, performance).

Would love to get a little more information here. Thanks!
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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by Darnis » Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:45 pm

PurestEvil wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:36 pm
Darnis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:10 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:58 pm Oh goodie. Late stage capitalism.
Isn't Argentina a socialist country?
It has a market economy, so no.
So does China.

Anyway I don't think the use of A.I. is inherently bad, but I feel it should only be used to assist not replace. This is definitely pretty messed up and they really should have just recast him.
Raditz did nothing wrong

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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by PurestEvil » Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:50 pm

Darnis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:45 pm
PurestEvil wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:36 pm
Darnis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:10 pm
Isn't Argentina a socialist country?
It has a market economy, so no.
So does China.
Why yes, China is a capitalist country as well. They dropped its Marxist pretenses by the turn of the 21st century, with the exception of certain national symbols. Argentina doesn't even pretend to be socialist.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, though, so I'll stop myself from protracting this argument now.
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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by nineko » Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:07 pm

PurestEvil wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:36 pmApart from the hypothetical possibility of this AI program rendering voice actors obsolete and phasing them out, what is dangerous about it? Identity theft? Creating misinformation?
All of the above, and then some. What you can do with a deepfake ranges from pornography to blackmail.

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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by M16U3L2015 » Wed Jan 11, 2023 10:48 pm

VegettoEX wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:43 pm Can we get a little background on this specific example for the non-native speakers (e.g., me!)? I don't know what the situation is with Alejandro Graue, and a super fast Google search didn't tick any lightbulbs for me.

Have they retired? Unfortunately passed away? (Dare we say, another Broly sex pest? Certainly hope to Dende not!)

What about this role in particular, versus other roles in the series, has made the producers go this route?

Would love to get a little more information here. Thanks!
Apparently a company used an AI with his voice to do a Voice Over in a documentary. The company did it to reduce costs. They did it without his permission

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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by Jord » Thu Jan 12, 2023 3:43 am

Voice actors make money by just imitating previous actor's vocal creations without compensating the original actors or their families for decades. I think AI basically doing the same falls in the same category, with the difference that the "actor" is digital.

Taking US voice acting as an example, Disney got in a bit of trouble with this in the 90's. That's when Jim Cumming did his uncanny imitation of Louis Prima's voice (Jazz musician who performed the part of King Louis in Jungle Book) for Tale Spin.

Prima's widow was not happy with this and sued Disney. As a result Disney had to basically retire the character until they worked things out.

The blurry part is the question when it's a character you're imitating and when it's a person you're imitating. Prima is a great example since he wasn't really an actor and basically used his own voice.

Basically when it's a person you're imitating and it misleads the listener to think they're hearing the real celebrity, the real celebrity can take legal action. For example, if you make an ad with a clear parody of President Trump, you should be clear. If you make an ad with a voice over where ot isn't clear whether it's the real President Trump or not, you could very well get in trouble.

This is based on US law though so I don't know how it would apply in Japan. And this is purely from a legal stand point.

Ethically I would say that it's okay as well, since, as mentioned, voice actors have been using previous voice actors' work for decades without compensation to the originals who worked on crafting that specific voice for that character. Most of the times they created it while working for a company as hire so you could argue for example that the while Nozawa created the Goku voice, TOEI owns the "vocal design".

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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Jan 12, 2023 9:51 am

I feel like there's useful AI that can help advance medicine and figure out how to feed and clothe every child in the world, and then there's useless AI like replacing a voice actor. I know that we want to hear what we're familiar with, but I think it's more respectful to replace a voice actor with someone putting their heart and soul into living up to the role than just typing in a script for a lifeless machine to spit out in the same voice.

It's like, sure, I want Kevin Conroy as Batman. I will never think that anyone will live up to that performance. But that's because it was Kevin Conroy, not because nobody else can do a good job or because nobody else deserves to play the part. Would it make me feel better to know that Kevin Conroy was replaced by AI that sounds like him? No, because it's still not Kevin Conroy. It doesn't feel what he felt, prepare how he prepared, dive into itself the way he dove into himself. It'll just spit out anything you tell it to. It'll deliver an epic speech the same way it'll make fart jokes.

Anyway, we're gonna mess around and find ourselves living out the Terminator series.

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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:46 pm

JulieYBM wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:29 pm AI voice recreation is bad and dangerous technology and it is my hope that it is destroyed forever.
AI voice recrations sound like garbage, and can easily be spotted for fake. I doubt it will reach human level of voice acting. Same with AI art with it none of it being any good to reach human levels of art.
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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by supersaiyamangod » Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:48 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:46 pm
JulieYBM wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:29 pm AI voice recreation is bad and dangerous technology and it is my hope that it is destroyed forever.
AI voice recrations sound like garbage, and can easily be spotted for fake. I doubt it will reach human level of voice acting. Same with AI art with it none of it being any good to reach human levels of art.
I couldn’t hear the fakeness in the kenobi show.

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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:03 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:46 pm
JulieYBM wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:29 pm AI voice recreation is bad and dangerous technology and it is my hope that it is destroyed forever.
AI voice recrations sound like garbage, and can easily be spotted for fake. I doubt it will reach human level of voice acting. Same with AI art with it none of it being any good to reach human levels of art.
Technology improves over time and it will eventually be used by the powerful in anyway possible to oppress the powerless.

This is all putting aside things that affect me personally as a writer and someone who would love to be a filmmaker.
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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:21 pm

The AI voices that I have seen still robotic. Like this one for example where it still sounds not real at all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRlo8_13Zyw
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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:03 am

VegettoEX wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:43 pm Can we get a little background on this specific example for the non-native speakers (e.g., me!)? I don't know what the situation is with Alejandro Graue, and a super fast Google search didn't tick any lightbulbs for me.

Have they retired? Unfortunately passed away? (Dare we say, another Broly sex pest? Certainly hope to Dende not!)
I'm not a native Spanish speaker either but received this link from someone I trust, so I'm inclined to think Alejandro Graue is a respectful person, unlike some other individuals in the industry we know of. You won't be able to just find information on this actor in English because he's from Latin America.
VegettoEX wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:43 pm I'm definitely of two (very unequal) minds on this. I have that part of me that absolutely believes in technology and the human ingenuity that both creates and propels it, while at the same time I love art of all types and believe in the sometimes-intangible quality of a "real" human creation (in this case, performance).
Agreed, technology is wonderful but there is nothing more pure than an artist's creation.
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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:40 am

Ugh, why? This is so unnecessary.
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Re: Dragon Ball and AI in voice acting

Post by Xeogran » Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:44 am

give me AI generated Big Green cast for all the movies they didn't get to do pls :lol:

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