Deep Thoughts: The Tenshinhan Saga

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ABED
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Deep Thoughts: The Tenshinhan Saga

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:32 pm

I refuse to call him Tien Shinhan. That said, this has come to be one of my all-time favorite arcs. Toriyama has really hit his stride by this point, and it would continue through the Freeza arc. It's odd though, because for some reason, when I first saw it back in 2004, it was not among my favorites. It felt like a bit of a letdown after the pure fun of the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai. I can't even tell you why I didn't enjoy it as much. This tournament has so much going for it. The stakes have been raised since the first Budokai. Now it's not student vs. teacher, it is school vs. school. Linking The Crane Hermit to Tao Pai Pai works very well.It could've come across as a hacky way to give the story stakes and a built-in backstory, but here it works very well. I think it works in large part because it's not actually Tenshinhan's motivation. He's ultimately not out to get revenge. If I had to guess as to his reasons for following in the path of Tao Pai Pai, it's because he believed Tao and the Crane Hermit were the strongest in the world. If the strongest in the world were villains, then perhaps he had to go down that path to be the strongest. He needed to see someone as good as Goku was as strong as he was for him to have his epiphany. Vegeta follows a similar trajectory. Chaozu is just dumb. I don't mean that as a knock. He's simply lacking in intelligence. It's highly amusing and sadly he's never that interesting as a character again.

Panputto is probably the most boring fighter in the first three Tenkaichi Budokais. Man-Wolf is hilarious, and the joke thankfully doesn't overstay its welcome.

The tournament itself is incredible and has some of the best fights and moments in all of Dragon Ball. Tenshinhan vs. Yamcha is furious and the ending is vicious. The way Yamcha's leg snaps is wince inducing. Though what would lead Tenshinhan to believe Yamcha was Muten Roshi's top pupil? The setup and payoff of Chaozu's lack of intelligence is brilliant. It's funny by itself, but it ultimately costs him the match against Kuririn. Goku vs. Kuririn is everything you'd want that fight to be, and the use of Mezase Tenkaichi is Jeff's Kiss. And I was legit shocked when Muten Roshi gave up during his fight against Tenshinhan. It was a great way to bring closure to his story. Too bad Super walked it back. Last but certainly not least, the final round. It is, what the kids say, a banger. Believe it or not, I didn't enjoy this match and thought it was overrated for the longest time. I much preferred Jackie Chun vs. Goku. Now, it's definitely up for debate which is better, and it would be an argument with valid points on both sides. This fight was stronger because of Tenshinhan's internal strife. For someone who starts off as insufferable prick, he quickly becomes one of my favorites. Also, he gets points for use of the Boston Crab. I wasn't expecting a wrestling move in the fight. The resolution is something I've gone back and forth on. I like it, but I still don't know if it qualifies as a deus ex machina or not. I didn't expect it either. Given how much of an asshole he starts as, I felt it only logical that Goku would win. I didn't see that ending or how satisfying it would feel. But what really gets me choked up is how the crowd, amazed by what they've witnessed rush towards Goku and Tenshinhan to congratulate them. It was such a wonderful moment, the most beautiful was Kuririn being the first to get to Goku. It's such a heartwarming moment, and one that makes what comes next that much harder.

Kuririn's death is among the most shocking moments I've ever seen in Dragon Ball. Unfortunately, I didn't experience Dragon Ball in order at all. Like almost everyone, I started with Dragon Ball Z, but I did read Curtis Hoffmann's manga summaries and when I got to the part where Kuririn is found dead, I had to reread it to make sure I read it correctly. The anime takes it a step further and foreshadows it. There's a sense of foreboding and impending tragedy that works so well. It works well either way, either as a pure surprise or a moment of suspense. Masako Nozawa's performance is heart wrenching. I can't say enough good things about this moment.

Random Thoughts:
Is there any significance to the Turtle Hermit's rival being the Crane Hermit?
I dug the tournament taking place over several days. It makes the whole thing feel grander. Is there a reason the anime did this? I don't recall the manga showing the tournament taking place over more than a day. It's also not something the anime did for any of the other ones.

The Dub:
I like Burgmeier's performance as Tenshinhan quite a bit. He gets even better when he drops the rasp. Mercifully it was never as bad as Eric Vale's Trunks, but we'll get to him later. Monika Antonelli's a good choice for Chaozu. And to round out the Crane School, Chuck Huber's Crane Hermit is okay. It's not the worst but could they not find an older actor. The most baffling choice is not any of the actors, it was the decision to name him Shen, especially since Kami used that moniker in the next tournament. Then there's the dumb added backstory of his falling out with his brother. Why? Did I miss something in the original? Is it implied Tao Pai Pai and the Crane Hermit have a rocky relationship?

Home Video:
There's only one VHS for the Tien Shinhan Saga. FUNi wasn't phasing out VHS at this point. They would still release VHS volumes for GT, so it must be due to sales.
On the DVD side of things, it was a relief to finish the collection, minus the first arc, of course. It was a hell of a wait – six months between the Fortuneteller Baba Saga and Tien Shinhan Saga DVD's.

Next up is one of my favorite arcs, the Piccolo Daimao arc.

84. Roshi and Co. registers for the tournament; encounter the Crane Hermit and his pupils; Goku reaches the arena late; the preliminaries begin the next morning
85. Goku and the other contestants draw lots; Yamcha, Kuririn and Tenshinhan win their first match; Goku and King Chapa step onto the ring for their match
86. Goku defeats King Chapa by knocking him out of bounds; Jackie Chun wins his first match; Goku and the others make it through the prelims with no trouble
87. Chaozu rigs the drawing using telekinesis; the tournament brackets are determined; Yamcha and Tenshinhan begin their quarterfinal match fighting evenly
88. Tenshinhan beats up Yamcha; knocks him out and wins the match; breaks Yamcha's leg; Puar turns into a flying carpet and takes Yamcha to the hospital
89. Manwolf tells Jackie Chun he hates him for destroying the moon; Jackie Chun wins via ring out; hypnotizes him using Kuririn's head; Manwolf turns human
90. Kuririn and Chaozu's match begins; Goku tells Tenshinhan about Tao Pai Pai's death; Tenshinhan tells the Crane Hermit that Goku killed his brother
91. Chaozu beats up Kuririn using his psychic powers; Kuririn distracts him with math; knocks him out of the ring; Crane attempts to kill Goku in his sleep
92. Pamputto's entourage kidnaps Goku; Lunch saves him; Goku easily defeats Pamputto by knocking him out with three rapid elbows to the stomach
93. The Crane Hermit School spies on Jackie Chun; Tenshinhan and Jackie begin their match; sees through his after images with his three eyes; both get serious
94. Tenshinhan and Jackie Chun fight equally; the Crane Hermit realizes Jackie Chun is Roshi and tells Tenshinhan; Jackie walks out of the ring on purpose
95. Muten Roshi retires from fighting; speaks with Tenshinhan again about walking the right path; Goku and Kuririn begin their match fighting evenly
96. Kuririn and Goku continue to be evenly matched; Kuririn grabs Goku's tail; Goku reveals that he strengthened his tail; knocks Kuririn out of the ring
97. Yamcha leaves the hospital to watch the last match; everyone prepares for the finals; the final match begins; Tenshinhan hits Goku with a flurry of punches
98. Goku survives the volleyball attack; starts fighting at his Battle level; uses Roshi's glasses against the Taiyo-ken; Chaozu immobilizes him telekinetically
99. Tenshinhan rebels against the Crane Hermit; Roshi blasts the Crane Hermit from the arena; Tenshinhan gives Goku free hits; uses the Four Arm Technique
100. Tenshinhan beats up Goku with four arms; Goku retaliates using his tail; Tenshinhan powers out of Goku's Boston Crab; destroys the ring with the Kikoho
101. Goku and Tenshinhan fall; Goku hits a van and loses; he and his friends go out to eat; Kuririn leaves to get Goku's Nyoibo and DB; Goku finds him dead
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Re: Deep Thoughts: The Tenshinhan Saga

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:33 pm

ABED wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:32 pmThen there's the dumb added backstory of his falling out with his brother. Why? Did I miss something in the original? Is it implied Tao Pai Pai and the Crane Hermit have a rocky relationship?
Only in the Funimation dub. The flashback to the Crane Hermit and Tao Pai-Pai's past is silent in the Japanese version. Jackie Chun also tells Tenshinhan in the Funimation dub he's making a mistake serving Crane. The Blue Water dub adds some lines about Crane loving his brother and Tenshinhan saying "Start preparing for your funeral" but no motivations are changed, and all the characters are still presented faithfully.

I find it funny there's that line in the Japanese version where Kuririn said Tenshinhan was the "world champion for detestability!". It must have really been a blow to Kuririn's pride to be called a shorty (ironically by Chaotzu) to discredit Tenshinhan so much, although arguably he deserved it at this point in the story.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula :thumbup:

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Re: Deep Thoughts: The Tenshinhan Saga

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:10 pm

ABED wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:32 pm .
Is there any significance to the Turtle Hermit's rival being the Crane Hermit?
There's a Japanese proverb "the crane lives for a thousand years, the turtle for 10,000 years." I just assume it's an "they're older than dirt so their names are tied to animals associated with living for a long time" thing.

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Re: Deep Thoughts: The Tenshinhan Saga

Post by Super Sonic » Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:40 pm

While I haven't watched these episodes in 20 years almost, I'd say it's still better to watch if dubbed with your anime senses turned off then? Will say, while watching on CN back then, was surprised at it dragging out. Viz was releasing the manga around the same time.

Also if I recall right, the dub didn't have the line of Lunch wanting to hijack a plane, but given plane hijacking jokes weren't that funny in 2002, kind of understandable at the time.

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Re: Deep Thoughts: The Tenshinhan Saga

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:23 am

Super Sonic wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:40 pmAlso if I recall right, the dub didn't have the line of Lunch wanting to hijack a plane, but given plane hijacking jokes weren't that funny in 2002, kind of understandable at the time.
Correct, in the Funimation dub the mention about Jackie Chun made Lunch tense, but in the Blue Water dub she was tense because she couldn't resist robbing someone. Considering both of these dubs were being recorded not long after the 9/11 attacks, I can't blame either Funimation or Ocean trying to play it safe. The Japanese version had the luxury of airing long before 9/11 and likely not having the foresight such a tragic event would occur.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula :thumbup:

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