Toriyama loves Star Wars but has George Lucas ever talked about Dragon Ball?

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ABED
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Re: Toriyama loves Star Wars but has George Lucas ever talked about Dragon Ball?

Post by ABED » Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:45 am

Sure, but Lucas took influences from numerous sources, including Eastern mythology. The force is so ill defined, it does feel very similar to the Asian concept of ki or chi.

So what influences what feels circular at this point.
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Re: Toriyama loves Star Wars but has George Lucas ever talked about Dragon Ball?

Post by Skar » Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:31 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:43 pmEarly in the development of Dragonball Evolution it was rumoured that Industrial Light and Magic would be doing the special effects. It was also reported that Lucas wanted to get his foot into anime by setting up an animation facility in Singapore. It's possible these details were conflated to mean George Lucas was being considered to direct Evolution, but there's really no reason to suspect either is any indication this is true.
Thanks that makes sense. I assumed George Lucas being considered as the director would've been big news. I was curious where it came from when I couldn't find an article or quote to support it.

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Re: Toriyama loves Star Wars but has George Lucas ever talked about Dragon Ball?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:57 am

Yuji wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:12 am I seem to remember Toriyama saying the two have met but has George Lucas ever spoken on Toriyama or Dragon Ball himself?

While rewatching the prequels I noticed some similarities between Episode III's ending and the climactic battle on Namek. I'm wondering if he was perhaps influenced or if they just both came up with similar set pieces independently.
fleahop wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:56 pm I had never really considered it, but the ending of Episode III and the ending on Namek are quite similar.

Knowing George Lucas, I would be surprised if some of the prequels or side-projects didn't take from Dragon Ball in any way. I've never really looked for it, but will now be keeping a closer eye on if there are any homages or references snuck in.
From an incredibly famous, oft-quoted, oft-cited interview with George Lucas in Rolling Stone back in August of 1977, just several months after the release of the original Star Wars film:
George Lucas in 1977 wrote:“It was a whole part of the plot that essentially got cut out. It may be in one of the sequels…Ben & Vader have a confrontation…Ben almost kills Vader…he falls into a volcanic pit & gets fried.”
Guys, I cannot stress this enough: the imagery of a defeated Anakin Skywalker/pre-Darth Vader being burned in volcanic lava from a fateful duel with Obi-Wan Kenobi has been a massive part of Star Wars' iconography in the public consciousness (particularly among nerds) dating back to the series' earliest beginnings in the public zeitgeist. Lucas was VERY public and open about those plans from almost the very, very beginning, and it set the public's imagination about "The Dueltm" (as it was known for eons) ablaze for literally just a couple years shy of 30 freaking years.

This isn't even obscure trivia or knowledge in the least. To put it mildly. Literally every other kid that was into Star Wars (so literally every other kid) as late as even the mid-90s, a few years pre-Episode 1, were all buzzing about this specific scene in the then-upcoming prequels. People had literally *multiple decades* to fantasize about, draw fan art of, write fanfic of, and post speculation about this specific moment... and boy did they. Throw a rock in SW fandom literally anytime throughout the 80s, 90s, and early 00s, and you'd hit a few dozen speculative discussions or fan media about Obi-Wan and Anakin lightsaber fighting in or near a volcano with lava everywhere.

This imagery was indelible in SW fandom for literally as long as I can remember (and I can remember back to the latter half of the 1980s), and indeed since even shortly before I was born.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Toriyama loves Star Wars but has George Lucas ever talked about Dragon Ball?

Post by fleahop » Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:04 am

Kunzait post

I was referring more so to the actual climaxes of each battle, with them both being severed in shockingly similar places. Both Frieza and Anakin were of given a choice to walk away as they were both clearly in a losing position. Then, in their last moment both of them are still raging in futility.

With that being said, you still enlightened me on how long George had been planning this battle.

I am not saying he took inspiration from Dragon Ball in Episode III. From what I do know of George Lucas though, I believe there is a decent chance he was influenced by Dragon Ball.
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Re: Toriyama loves Star Wars but has George Lucas ever talked about Dragon Ball?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:36 am

fleahop wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:04 amFrom what I do know of George Lucas though, I believe there is a decent chance he was influenced by Dragon Ball.
Its infinitely more likely he was just influenced by Wuxia as a broader whole than by DB specifically. Especially given that in the 1970s (which again, is when the battle between Obi-Wan and Anakin/Vader within a volcanic environment was first concieved of by him), DB didn't even exist yet.

Given his film tastes at the time, he was very likely influenced by stuff like King Hu's films (A Touch of Zen, Dragon Inn, Come Drink With Me, and so on) and various Shaw and Harvest wuxia films. This is likely where The Force as a concept came from (Chi/Qigong) as well as various aspects of the Jedi (who are a mix of elements from Chinese Xian and Youxia and Japanese Samurai, among other more Western influences like European/Tolkien-esque fantasy Wizards).

Given his age and his general artistic influences and sensibilities, I'd be very shocked if he gives enough of a shit about Dragon Ball to have been "influenced" by it in any meaningful or substantial way. If I were to bet money on it, DB is likely something he's only vaguely aware of through his kids (assuming he's even aware of it at all).

This is likely just another case of younger fans projecting their own views and enthusiasms onto older creators.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Toriyama loves Star Wars but has George Lucas ever talked about Dragon Ball?

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:36 am

I’m sure George Lucas is vaguely aware that Dragon Ball is a thing that exists, but I doubt he’s a fan who was in anyway influenced by it.

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